Thief Reboot Jumbo Thread - Story Trailer - (56K take a walk)

The developers explain (badly) why Stephen Russell won't be in the game 

"Yes. And to answer your question directly, the actor playing Garrett needed to be able to perform his own stunts. Garretts a really athletic guy. We could have pasted Stephens voice on top of the actions and stunts of someone else, but this wouldnt appear natural. It really wouldnt make any sense to capture the full performance for our other characters, but not for our star." 

This was my reply on Facebook: 

"The actor playing Garrett needed to be able to perform his own stunts." What stunts though? Its not like he's going to be doing cartwheels (I hope). The brilliance of Russell's voice is that he matches the silkiness of Garrett's quiet movements. When you're sneaking around thats all thats needed - assuming this is still a sneaking game as we've been told. This is a mistake and that Connery line is ridiculous. Its more than nostalgia - its about retaining the essence of the game as much as the character.

 

biggest_loser

I doubt he recites Shakespeare while doing cartwheels. What happened to stunt doubles anyway? It's not like Nathan Drake's actor does all the stunts - and that guy can't shut up for 30 seconds.

They're not going to record his incidental internal monologue during a mo-cap session involving level playthroughs either.

I doubt he recites Shakespeare while doing cartwheels. What happened to stunt doubles anyway? It's not like Nathan Drake's actor does all the stunts - and that guy can't shut up for 30 seconds.

They're not going to record his incidental internal monologue during a mo-cap session involving level playthroughs either.

Baranga

garrett seems more acrobatic this time. more climbing and stuff. sneaking still involves a lot of physical strain (try to run crouched and see how long before your legs beg you to stop), so i can see what they mean by that. not saying it's the best reason, but it's a reason, and it's not like the new VA sounds bad or anything.

BrunoBRS

As someone smartly pointed out though: why do you need motion capture for a first person game? 

The other games had "climbing and stuff" too.

If its a stealth game why does he need to be acrobatic?  

[QUOTE="BrunoBRS"]

garrett seems more acrobatic this time. more climbing and stuff. sneaking still involves a lot of physical strain (try to run crouched and see how long before your legs beg you to stop), so i can see what they mean by that. not saying it's the best reason, but it's a reason, and it's not like the new VA sounds bad or anything.

biggest_loser

As someone smartly pointed out though: why do you need motion capture for a first person game? 

The other games had "climbing and stuff" too.

If its a stealth game why does he need to be acrobatic?  

[QUOTE="biggest_loser"]

[QUOTE="BrunoBRS"]

garrett seems more acrobatic this time. more climbing and stuff. sneaking still involves a lot of physical strain (try to run crouched and see how long before your legs beg you to stop), so i can see what they mean by that. not saying it's the best reason, but it's a reason, and it's not like the new VA sounds bad or anything.

BrunoBRS

As someone smartly pointed out though: why do you need motion capture for a first person game? 

The other games had "climbing and stuff" too.

If its a stealth game why does he need to be acrobatic?  

the idea is that the voice actor (or his voice) has to match the character's age group, BrunoBRS

That's stupid.

As someone smartly pointed out though: why do you need motion capture for a first person game?

biggest_loser

It's useful in first-person cutscenes, for directing the player PoV in key scenes and for body awareness.

The guy playing Prophet in Crysis 3 has a talk somewhere about having to pay extra attention during mo-cap because the player sees through his eyes.

[QUOTE="BrunoBRS"][QUOTE="biggest_loser"]

As someone smartly pointed out though: why do you need motion capture for a first person game? 

The other games had "climbing and stuff" too.

If its a stealth game why does he need to be acrobatic?  

biggest_loser

they never said they needed the actor to do the mo-cap.BrunoBRS

Were absolutely huge fans of Stephens work on the classic Thief games. But when it came down to it, we ultimately realized that holding onto Steven as the voice of Garrett just for the sake of our nostalgia would be like wanting to cast Sean Connery again in the new 007 movies... Its a nice thought, but honestly, it wouldnt make sense for anything else other than nostalgia.

To quote the article:

Were absolutely huge fans of Stephens work on the classic Thief games. But when it came down to it, we ultimately realized that holding onto Steven as the voice of Garrett just for the sake of our nostalgia would be like wanting to cast Sean Connery again in the new 007 movies... Its a nice thought, but honestly, it wouldnt make sense for anything else other than nostalgia.SKaREO

Like a character can never age? It's not just for nostalgic reasons, it's realistic that a character ages. Sounds like a cop out to me. Palpatine/Sidious was played by the same actor for the entire Star Wars saga, even when his character was much younger in the prequels. Metal Gear Solid icon David Hayter was used in MGS4: Guns of the Patriots, and his character had aged in the game to reflect the evolution of the series. I'm not even disappointed in particular about their decision; it just doesn't seem like the right decision.

I'm sure if the community complains enough, they will get him back for thief 4. Thats exactly what happened with hitman absolution.

This depresses me.  Stephen Russell was necessary not because of nostalgia.  He was necessary because he made Garrett one of the most memorable game characters.  Few game characters have had the personality depth that Stephen was able to give Garrett.  And despite Stephen "getting old" he still is a voice talent that has been actively working in games. 

The Younger Hipper Garrett! (New voice actor introduced, includes video)

Some of the comments on Youtube are really funny. 

[QUOTE="BrunoBRS"]they never said they needed the actor to do the mo-cap.nutcrackr

Were absolutely huge fans of Stephens work on the classic Thief games. But when it came down to it, we ultimately realized that holding onto Steven as the voice of Garrett just for the sake of our nostalgia would be like wanting to cast Sean Connery again in the new 007 movies... Its a nice thought, but honestly, it wouldnt make sense for anything else other than nostalgia.

but eventually you'd have to let the actor go.BrunoBRS

but eventually you'd have to let the actor go.

BrunoBRS

Looks like this Bruno guy has already made up his mind.

The same thing happened to Michael Ironside and SC Blacklist.

The same thing happened to Michael Ironside and SC Blacklist.

Elann2008

You're not wrong there. 

The difference is that Thief isn't a third person game this time. Whereas, SC is all about fancy animations, so I guess the motion capture would be more important there.  

[QUOTE="Elann2008"]

The same thing happened to Michael Ironside and SC Blacklist.

biggest_loser

You're not wrong there. 

The difference is that Thief isn't a third person game this time. Whereas, SC is all about fancy animations, so I guess the motion capture would be more important there.  

[QUOTE="BrunoBRS"]but eventually you'd have to let the actor go.

biggest_loser

Looks like this Bruno guy has already made up his mind.

It sounds terrible. The only good thing from the preview is the graphics. Take-down, platforming, scripted events, speed boosting? What are they thinking? biggest_loser

scripted events? i must have missed it. and i have absolutely no problems with platforming. a thief that can't climb might as well stick to the streets.

also, the complain about takedowns is almost as if you forgot garrett always carried a blackjack that can one-shot guards if you catch them unprepared.

BrunoBRS

"the head of this extravagant House announces that a thief is hiding among the clientele." 

Sounds scripted and probably means you can't leave without being detected.

Platforming - the use of that word worries me. It could be just climbing but it could also mean a sequence where you have no choice but to go through a platforming sequence.

You had a blackjack but it was risky and had to be planned.

The ability for a takedown is almost encouraging and empowering the player to engage with guards.  

I dont know if anyone else has asked this since im too lazy to look.Iv never played any of the thief games before and the new looks really good.Are they all related story wise?Because id love to play the new one when its realeased but id like to know if i should play the old ones first.

I dont know if anyone else has asked this since im too lazy to look.Iv never played any of the thief games before and the new looks really good.Are they all related story wise?Because id love to play the new one when its realeased but id like to know if i should play the old ones first.

Superrkilla

[QUOTE="BrunoBRS"]

scripted events? i must have missed it. and i have absolutely no problems with platforming. a thief that can't climb might as well stick to the streets.

also, the complain about takedowns is almost as if you forgot garrett always carried a blackjack that can one-shot guards if you catch them unprepared.

biggest_loser

"the head of this extravagant House announces that a thief is hiding among the clientele." 

Sounds scripted and probably means you can't leave without being detected.

Platforming - the use of that word worries me. It could be just climbing but it could also mean a sequence where you have no choice but to go through a platforming sequence.

You had a blackjack but it was risky and had to be planned.

The ability for a takedown is almost encouraging and empowering the player to engage with guards.  

The community manager video is getting canned, I wonder what response they will give for it.nutcrackr

to me it sounds like someone realized the very valuable thing he had with him is now gone. pretty sure it happened in previous games too. i think platforming means walking on beams on ceilings and climbing. or that's what i got from it. nothing in the preview implied that it wasn't risky or planned. and again, you could barge into a place in the old games and knock everyone unconscious if you felt like, it's no different here. don't read things that aren't there. you could take down in previous games, you can take down now.

 

BrunoBRS

Its telling you how to play now, whereas before you could still sneak away if you wanted to. Now its about speed. 

Takedowns are different because they'll mean that the player feels more empowered by having a specific contextual action that "tells" them that they have the physical advantage of being able to knock out a guard.  We don't want people to be encouraged to take out guards. People will use this instead of sticking to the shadows.

The blackjack was there but it was never forced, encouraged or used to empower the player. It was an optional tool that had its disadvantages too. You could takedown guards with it, but it never characterised Garrett as a skilled fighter. 

[QUOTE="BrunoBRS"]

to me it sounds like someone realized the very valuable thing he had with him is now gone. pretty sure it happened in previous games too. i think platforming means walking on beams on ceilings and climbing. or that's what i got from it. nothing in the preview implied that it wasn't risky or planned. and again, you could barge into a place in the old games and knock everyone unconscious if you felt like, it's no different here. don't read things that aren't there. you could take down in previous games, you can take down now.

 

biggest_loser

Its telling you how to play now, whereas before you could still sneak away if you wanted to. Now its about speed. 

Takedowns are different because they'll mean that the player feels more empowered by having a specific contextual action that "tells" them that they have the physical advantage of being able to knock out a guard.  We don't want people to be encouraged to take out guards. People will use this instead of sticking to the shadows.

The blackjack was there but it was never forced, encouraged or used to empower the player. It was an optional tool that had its disadvantages too. You could takedown guards with it, but it never characterised Garrett as a skilled fighter. 

that sounds like kevin flavoring up the text, IMO. you have to take in consideration that a lot of it can be just the way kevin worded things, as we don't have a video of the demo to go by. "guy notices he's been robbed, announces it to the people, reinforcements inbound" sounds pretty normal to me.

or, you know, you just think the word means the game will pull a deus ex HR and turn a single button press into some magic OP attack. and for the 20th time, it was in the other games. just because the guy did it in the demo doesn't mean he HAD to. he's showcasing his game, for f*ck's sake, he better show what can be done.

it's amazing how you read the word "takedown" and assume that it's not just garrett bludgeoning a guy in the back of his neck like in previous games, but him pulled some skilled fighting moves to render the guard useless, and that for some reason you think it's a necessary action.

the player sees a blackjack in their hands, the player will know they can use it. for the love of god, drop those rose tinted glasses and stop criticizing a game for things it's not doing, or for doing things that the other games did.

BrunoBRS

I don't think it sounds normal for a Thief game because many levels in the original games were free from scripted moments like that and allowed you to sneak away from the job undetected and unnoticed. That's part of the joy: escaping and no one is the wiser. 

I'm not sure what you mean was done in the other games. Its not from the back of his neck like the other games because it says: "or to perform a takedown from behind or above." Now they're going to let you jump down on guards and hit them with the blackjack, further empowering Garrett and removing the tension and risk factor of sneaking up behind slowly. Its the influence of Dishonored. 

It might not be necessary to me, but if it makes the game easier for other players to take out guards then they'll use it and exploit it, which isn't the point of Thief.

I'm not wearing rose tinted glasses. I'm just aware of what this series did right - it was one thing, stealth based not action, and it perfected it.  

We don't want people to be encouraged to take out guards. People will use this instead of sticking to the shadows.

biggest_loser

But will  you?  

Sounds to me like the game is still about choice.

Who cares if other players make use of takedowns, and treat the game like dishonored? Maybe that's how they want to play. They probably won't be playing on the high difficulty that disables focus and the other aids, either. But I assume you will be. As long as you still have the choice to play full stealth, what does it matter? And I read nothing in that article that gave me the idea that you woudn't be able to play full stealth.

But will  you?  

Sounds to me like the game is still about choice.

Who cares if other players make use of takedowns, and treat the game like dishonored? Maybe that's how they want to play. They probably won't be playing on the high difficulty that disables focus and the other aids, either. But I assume you will be. As long as you still have the choice to play full stealth, what does it matter? And I read nothing in that article that gave me the idea that you woudn't be able to play full stealth.

the_bi99man

[QUOTE="BrunoBRS"]

that sounds like kevin flavoring up the text, IMO. you have to take in consideration that a lot of it can be just the way kevin worded things, as we don't have a video of the demo to go by. "guy notices he's been robbed, announces it to the people, reinforcements inbound" sounds pretty normal to me.

or, you know, you just think the word means the game will pull a deus ex HR and turn a single button press into some magic OP attack. and for the 20th time, it was in the other games. just because the guy did it in the demo doesn't mean he HAD to. he's showcasing his game, for f*ck's sake, he better show what can be done.

it's amazing how you read the word "takedown" and assume that it's not just garrett bludgeoning a guy in the back of his neck like in previous games, but him pulled some skilled fighting moves to render the guard useless, and that for some reason you think it's a necessary action.

the player sees a blackjack in their hands, the player will know they can use it. for the love of god, drop those rose tinted glasses and stop criticizing a game for things it's not doing, or for doing things that the other games did.

biggest_loser

I don't think it sounds normal for a Thief game because many levels in the original games were free from scripted moments like that and allowed you to sneak away from the job undetected and unnoticed. That's part of the joy: escaping and no one is the wiser. 

I'm not sure what you mean was done in the other games. Its not from the back of his neck like the other games because it says: "or to perform a takedown from behind or above." Now they're going to let you jump down on guards and hit them with the blackjack, further empowering Garrett and removing the tension and risk factor of sneaking up behind slowly. Its the influence of Dishonored. 

It might not be necessary to me, but if it makes the game easier for other players to take out guards then they'll use it and exploit it, which isn't the point of Thief.

I'm not wearing rose tinted glasses. I'm just aware of what this series did right - it was one thing, stealth based not action, and it perfected it.  

maybe if you knock the guy down, or just never steal that particular item to begin with, he won't notice, but i have a really good memory of people going "what the hell, where's my stuff? THIEF" in thief 3. plus, it's a sequel, not an HD remake. they'll make new things. and to me, people actually noticing that the super valuable and super important stuff they had with them just a minute ago has gone missing is a pretty natural evolution, scripted or not.

oh, sorry, i didn't know there was a difference between dropping from a high place and using the blackjack once to knock down a guard and dropping from a high place while using the blackjack to knock down a guard. apparently these are completely different things, that have completely different outcomes. seriously dude, what you're doing is worse than nitpicking, it's making things up.

BrunoBRS

It won't be natural if its a scripted event, punctuated by cutscenes that can't be avoided - that we dont know yet but the fact that the music changes suggests that they're being more direct about your actions in missions now. People noticed when their coin purses and such were gone but how often was an alarm set off when the main loot item was taken? 

They're adding new things, most of which don't need to be added. Its not a sequel its a reboot that doesn't need to be made.

I don't understand your last sentence about the blackjack and if you don't like me "making things up" leave the mega thread then.

You came here quoting my friends and I first.  

[QUOTE="BrunoBRS"]

maybe if you knock the guy down, or just never steal that particular item to begin with, he won't notice, but i have a really good memory of people going "what the hell, where's my stuff? THIEF" in thief 3. plus, it's a sequel, not an HD remake. they'll make new things. and to me, people actually noticing that the super valuable and super important stuff they had with them just a minute ago has gone missing is a pretty natural evolution, scripted or not.

oh, sorry, i didn't know there was a difference between dropping from a high place and using the blackjack once to knock down a guard and dropping from a high place while using the blackjack to knock down a guard. apparently these are completely different things, that have completely different outcomes. seriously dude, what you're doing is worse than nitpicking, it's making things up.

biggest_loser

It won't be natural if its a scripted event, punctuated by cutscenes that can't be avoided - that we dont know yet but the fact that the music changes suggests that they're being more direct about your actions in missions now. People noticed when their coin purses and such were gone but how often was an alarm set off when the main loot item was taken? 

They're adding new things, most of which don't need to be added. Its not a sequel its a reboot that doesn't need to be made.

I don't understand your last sentence about the blackjack and if you don't like me "making things up" leave the mega thread then.

You came here quoting my friends and I first.  

the music changes to adapt to the atmosphere of the situation. you have to keep in mind that speed doesn't mean running around in this case, it means urgence. he has to keep it cool despite the reinforcements (lest he gets caught), not run like a maniac through the guards.

BrunoBRS

How do you know though? In the trailer they showed, Garrett dodges the blade of a guard and then smashes out of a window. Its just a CGI trailer yes, but the ones for the previous games set the tone, so why can't we judge this one accordingly? 

about the looting, it depends on the situation. of course a family relic stored in a vault won't be missed until much later, but something the guy had on him until a few minutes back, and he happens to be in a closed environment, will raise some flags.

the way you're talking, you sound like you'd rather have no game than have a new game. honestly, that's just bullcrap. my sentence says exactly what it says. in old thief, if you were in a high place and a guard passed under you, you could drop down, hit him with a blackjack, and he'd be knocked down. in new thief, if you're in a high place and a guard passes under you, you can drop down and knock it down. the requirements are the same: you're sneaking around from higher ground, and the guard hasn't seen you. the outcome is the same: you're on the ground and the guard is unconscious after a single hit. there's nothing EMPOWERING or ENCOURAGING about it.

BrunoBRS

I would rather have no Thief then have the legacy of the others tarnished or people play it the wrong way. They could have easily called it something else or made it a new character but they wanted to milk the name and change the series. 

I don't think its the same thing. It makes Garrett more athletic by being able to jump down on guards from above which you couldn't do before and physically doesn't make sense since before you'd be right behind them for a knock on the back of the head, not on top.

Before you had to be cautious of the sound you were making knocking out guards and also extremely weary about sneaking up incase guards turned around suddenly. Not word on that yet if the top takedown makes more noise or not either. By being up high you have more of an overview of patrol routes too.  

It is encouraging players to engage more because they'll want to see the animation and how athletic Garrett is, which isn't the point. You're meant to stick to the shadows, avoiding guards. 

believe it or not, i'm not here to stalk you and "your friends", i'm here to talk about a game i'm excited about, and it just so happens that every time the game devs do anything you either find a reason to complain, or come up with them (case in point, your blabbering about the blackjack, which is functionally the exact same as its always been: one hit from behind or multiple hits from the front to knock someone down). they could be announcing a remake of thief 1, untouched in all aspects except new graphics and revamped sound design, with steven russel and everything, and you'd still find something to complain about.

BrunoBRS

You seem to be quoting everyone every time you disagree with one of us - arguing for the sake of arguing, like you're accusing me of. 

At least my comments have a purpose - which is to remind people that they shouldn't be making changes or "updating" because they can. Look at the responses to the videos. People are against this stuff. 

No I wouldn't complain about a game in the mould of Thief 1 because it is a great game still stands up today. Did you watch the play through here on Gamespot? You would see that the game is perfectly functional even now and that people unfamiliar with the series can enjoy it without it being "modern".  

Being increasingly snarky and aggressive with your responses isn't going to encourage me to accept your opinion either.  

New IGN preview

These parts caught my attention. Make of them what you will people:

"It looks like Mirrors Edge but set in the Dark Ages, as Garret slides across wooden tables, clambers through open windows, and spills out onto the cobbled streets, all at a blistering speed."

"During such sections climbing walls, clinging to ledges the game adopts a third-person perspective with Garrett negotiating his environment much like Nathan Drake or Desmond Miles."

"While you can leave crime scenes undetected, occasionally things dont go to plan and Garrett must rely on his wits and weapons. In the demo I saw, the demonstrator used the environment to assist his escape....Running outside hes confronted by some heavily-armed enemies - this is the first time that Garrett draws his weapon, entering into what is being called Focus mode."

"In Focus mode, time slows down, allowing you to target your opponents weak spots. At the minute, this seems to be done by dragging a moving cursor over key areas and a matching button press. It makes combat more of a quick-time event sort of experience, but with Focus disabled combat is a more traditional affair...The escape itself recalls that frantic Mirrors Edge-style section, in which you get a sense of Garretts agility and speed."

"The same sensibility has carried over into Thief stealing is still a focus, but combat is there if you want it." 

IGN

New IGN preview

These parts caught my attention. Make of them what you will people:

[QUOTE="IGN"]

"It looks like Mirrors Edge but set in the Dark Ages, as Garret slides across wooden tables, clambers through open windows, and spills out onto the cobbled streets, all at a blistering speed."

"During such sections climbing walls, clinging to ledges the game adopts a third-person perspective with Garrett negotiating his environment much like Nathan Drake or Desmond Miles."

"While you can leave crime scenes undetected, occasionally things dont go to plan and Garrett must rely on his wits and weapons. In the demo I saw, the demonstrator used the environment to assist his escape....Running outside hes confronted by some heavily-armed enemies - this is the first time that Garrett draws his weapon, entering into what is being called Focus mode."

"In Focus mode, time slows down, allowing you to target your opponents weak spots. At the minute, this seems to be done by dragging a moving cursor over key areas and a matching button press. It makes combat more of a quick-time event sort of experience, but with Focus disabled combat is a more traditional affair...The escape itself recalls that frantic Mirrors Edge-style section, in which you get a sense of Garretts agility and speed."

"The same sensibility has carried over into Thief stealing is still a focus, but combat is there if you want it." 

biggest_loser

your link doesn't work.

from that decsription it sounds ghastly :(

There is some really bad stuff in that preview. QTE Combat, Mirrors Edge running and stealing out of boredom. nutcrackr

and did deus ex get this much hate when it was shown? It has things like regenative health, 3rd person cover, and parts not coming off(like if you get shot in the legs you would be crawling or something). of course I only played it on easy so I don't know if those features were in the harder levels

New IGN preview

These parts caught my attention. Make of them what you will people:

[QUOTE="IGN"]

"It looks like Mirrors Edge but set in the Dark Ages, as Garret slides across wooden tables, clambers through open windows, and spills out onto the cobbled streets, all at a blistering speed."

"During such sections climbing walls, clinging to ledges the game adopts a third-person perspective with Garrett negotiating his environment much like Nathan Drake or Desmond Miles."

"While you can leave crime scenes undetected, occasionally things dont go to plan and Garrett must rely on his wits and weapons. In the demo I saw, the demonstrator used the environment to assist his escape....Running outside hes confronted by some heavily-armed enemies - this is the first time that Garrett draws his weapon, entering into what is being called Focus mode."

"In Focus mode, time slows down, allowing you to target your opponents weak spots. At the minute, this seems to be done by dragging a moving cursor over key areas and a matching button press. It makes combat more of a quick-time event sort of experience, but with Focus disabled combat is a more traditional affair...The escape itself recalls that frantic Mirrors Edge-style section, in which you get a sense of Garretts agility and speed."

"The same sensibility has carried over into Thief stealing is still a focus, but combat is there if you want it." 

biggest_loser

Biggest_looser why are you even comparing this game to the original Thief? I know you're a big Thief fan but I'm probably just as big, If you wan't to play a game like Thief then there are various really good mods out there.Sure I would love to play a game like Thief 1 with modern graphics but that's just not gonna happen.

A game like T1 would not sell well, In this day and age Devs can't afford to risk making a game that would not sell! a big budget game needs to be marketed and made in a certain way. I find it sad the fact that we finally got a thief game after a decade and you won't be able to enjoy it for what it is because you'll simple just compare it to Thief 1. This game should not be compared to the original Thief at all.

Also you scored Thief 3 a 9.5 despite it being a very different game from the original two, looks like the changes didn't really bother you but now you seem to get p*ssed at every small change they are announcing to the new game.

I have faith in Eidos Montreal they didn't disappointing with HR.