Texas public schools required to teach Bible this year

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]

Paganism though never had an existence before it was re-created. No one promoted it. The influence it had was not directed by anyone. And that is 100% true because we are talking about a dead religion that just respawned. Whatever contributed into its respawning was in the texts themselves, not someone promoting them. ;)

LJS9502_basic

I said it was dead for a looooong time when it got respawned. Otherwise we wouldnt be talking about it respawining, now would we? :|

[QUOTE="dundermuffin666"]

hey not to get all religous or anything but think of this,

which is better, the Christian who does good things to get to Heaven, or the atheist who does good things cause it's right?

Just something to think about

LJS9502_basic

Considering most of the reading I do (excluding the reading I have to do for a couple core classes at college, I don't plan to take any literary/English/etc. beyond the core) is for personal enjoyment, not for literary merit. This summer, I've read Dante, The Three Musketeers, some of H.G. Wells' books, and some other stuff. I've also read a bunch of graphic novels (V for Vendetta, Watchmen, all seven volumes of Sin City, first three volumes of The Sandman). None of them would probably be accredited the same influence as The Bible, and perhaps only Dante and Dumas would be placed on the same literary level.

I can tell you I honestly couldn't care less. :)

chessmaster1989

Still, i prove my point. SOme of Christianity's beliefs are severly flawed

dundermuffin666

Still, i prove my point. SOme of Christianity's beliefs are severly flawed

dundermuffin666

Thats completely not what I suggested.

I said it was dead for a looooong time when it got respawned. Otherwise we wouldnt be talking about it respawining, now would we? :|

Teenaged

I just wanted to prove a point. There is nothing wrong with being an atheist and the school shouldn't have to teach the bible. It is Texas though

dundermuffin666

[QUOTE="chessmaster1989"]

Considering most of the reading I do (excluding the reading I have to do for a couple core classes at college, I don't plan to take any literary/English/etc. beyond the core) is for personal enjoyment, not for literary merit. This summer, I've read Dante, The Three Musketeers, some of H.G. Wells' books, and some other stuff. I've also read a bunch of graphic novels (V for Vendetta, Watchmen, all seven volumes of Sin City, first three volumes of The Sandman). None of them would probably be accredited the same influence as The Bible, and perhaps only Dante and Dumas would be placed on the same literary level.

I can tell you I honestly couldn't care less. :)

xaos

Interestingly enough, at my college, one of my friends read Inferno for two separate classes... and none of my friends have had to read any of The Bible for any of their classes... the only Christian theology I've read from college was Paradise Lost, which I found remarkably uninteresting, particularly contrasted with some of the other great stuff we read (The Iliad, The Aeneid, Metamorphoses, The Odyssey, Herodotus, Thucydides, and more...).

There's nothing wrong with it. I just don't agree with a lot of the Churches beliefs. And it shouldn't be law that all schools in Texas have teach the bible. Ever heard of seperation of Church and state?

There's nothing wrong with it. I just don't agree with a lot of the Churches beliefs. And it shouldn't be law that all schools in Texas have teach the bible. Ever heard of seperation of Church and state?

dundermuffin666

And since its a public school, people of all different religions will be there. So really it's a dumb law

And since its a public school, people of all different religions will be there. So really it's a dumb law

dundermuffin666

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]

Thats completely not what I suggested.

I said it was dead for a looooong time when it got respawned. Otherwise we wouldnt be talking about it respawining, now would we? :|

LJS9502_basic

Whatever texts of mythology are introduced into school are introduced solely for their historicity and their literary value. And since they are dead religions, any respawning that happened was not intended by the people who introduced them to the educational system. If we suggest they did intend it then we are not talking about a dead religion now are we? Because that would mean that the people who introduced where followers of said dead religion. But we know that they ARE dead. You do the math.

But Christianity prexists of the introduction of those texts and the intention of influencing through this move is highly possible. There are people behind it to who promote it. We cant know their motives for sure, but like I said its highly possible (to me its certain to some degree; I am biased anyway ZOMG) that they are indeed doing it to spread or insure the prevailance of Christianity.

If there offereing it as literature that's fine, but in order to be fair they should also have the Torah and the Quaran(sorry if i spelled it wrong)

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]

Thats completely not what I suggested.

I said it was dead for a looooong time when it got respawned. Otherwise we wouldnt be talking about it respawining, now would we? :|

Teenaged

Whatever texts of mythology are introduced into school are introduced solely for their historicity and their literary value. And since they are dead religions, any respawning that happened was not intended by the people who introduced them to the educational system. If we suggest they did intend it then we are not talking about a dead religion now are we? Because that would mean that the people who introduced where followers of said dead religion. But we know that they ARE dead. You do the math.

But Christianity prexists of the introduction of those texts and the intention of influencing through this move is highly possible. There are people behind it to who promote it. We cant know their motives for sure, but like I said its highly possible (to me its certain to some degree; I am biased anyway ZOMG) that they are indeed doing it to spread or insure the prevailance of Christianity.

If there offereing it as literature that's fine, but in order to be fair they should also have the Torah and the Quaran(sorry if i spelled it wrong)

dundermuffin666

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]Which goes against your argument that it's okay to teach mythology since it's dead. The dead can come back to life. And I gave such an example.

LJS9502_basic

Whatever texts of mythology are introduced into school are introduced solely for their historicity and their literary value. And since they are dead religions, any respawning that happened was not intended by the people who introduced them to the educational system. If we suggest they did intend it then we are not talking about a dead religion now are we? Because that would mean that the people who introduced where followers of said dead religion. But we know that they ARE dead. You do the math.

But Christianity prexists of the introduction of those texts and the intention of influencing through this move is highly possible. There are people behind it to who promote it. We cant know their motives for sure, but like I said its highly possible (to me its certain to some degree; I am biased anyway ZOMG) that they are indeed doing it to spread or insure the prevailance of Christianity.

If I did, I am certain you are able to correct me instead of just stating that I missed the point.

I dont think so.

If I did, I am certain you are able to correct me instead of just stating that I missed the point.

Teenaged

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]

I dont think so.

If I did, I am certain you are able to correct me instead of just stating that I missed the point.

LJS9502_basic

You know, LJS, I'd say you were a decent debater if you didn't constantly pull crap like this...

[QUOTE="dundermuffin666"]

And since its a public school, people of all different religions will be there. So really it's a dumb law

mindstorm

Texas of all places doesn't surprise me, since it's one of the most churched states. Teaching that trash in schools is a waste of perfectly good minds, though.

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]

I dont think so.

If I did, I am certain you are able to correct me instead of just stating that I missed the point.

LJS9502_basic

If I got it wrong is it so hard to try to restate it or just do something relevant so that my lacking mind can comprehend it?

[

You know, LJS, I'd say you were a decent debater if you didn't constantly pull crap like this...

chessmaster1989

[QUOTE="chessmaster1989"]

[

You know, LJS, I'd say you were a decent debater if you didn't constantly pull crap like this...

LJS9502_basic

So you quit without backing up a claim that (essentially) Teenaged is wrong?

Yeah, that's a great way to win debates. :roll:

I answered to your point.

If I got it wrong is it so hard to try to restate it or just do something relevant so that my lacking mind can comprehend it?

Teenaged

[QUOTE="mindstorm"][QUOTE="dundermuffin666"]

And since its a public school, people of all different religions will be there. So really it's a dumb law

xaos

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

[QUOTE="chessmaster1989"]

[

You know, LJS, I'd say you were a decent debater if you didn't constantly pull crap like this...

chessmaster1989

So you quit without backing up a claim that (essentially) Teenaged is wrong?

Yeah, that's a great way to win debates. :roll:

Doesn't bother me. Let them teach the Bible in school.

[QUOTE="chessmaster1989"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]Well I could restate it....but I don't think it would matter. And I'd rather now go around in circles. Sometimes you have to quit.

LJS9502_basic

So you quit without backing up a claim that (essentially) Teenaged is wrong?

Yeah, that's a great way to win debates. :roll:

Yes, but claiming you've made a point and not making any specification about what point that is and instead merely calling a user (in effect) wrong is a pretty damn stupid debate tactic. ;)

Yes, but claiming you've made a point and not making any specification about what point that is and instead merely calling a user (in effect) wrong is a pretty damn stupid debate tactic. ;)

chessmaster1989

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]

I answered to your point.

If I got it wrong is it so hard to try to restate it or just do something relevant so that my lacking mind can comprehend it?

LJS9502_basic

The very nature of both separate cases (dead religions and active religions like Christianity, which I portrayed in that post) shows us which one is far more susceptible to claims of ulterior motives behind its scripture being introduced into the educational system.

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]

I answered to your point.

If I got it wrong is it so hard to try to restate it or just do something relevant so that my lacking mind can comprehend it?

LJS9502_basic

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]

I answered to your point.

If I got it wrong is it so hard to try to restate it or just do something relevant so that my lacking mind can comprehend it?

fat_rob

[QUOTE="chessmaster1989"]

Yes, but claiming you've made a point and not making any specification about what point that is and instead merely calling a user (in effect) wrong is a pretty damn stupid debate tactic. ;)

LJS9502_basic

Yes, and almost always my "attacks" on you have legitimacy. You just never admit they do. Actually, you basically never admit you're wrong, period. ;)

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

[QUOTE="chessmaster1989"]

Yes, but claiming you've made a point and not making any specification about what point that is and instead merely calling a user (in effect) wrong is a pretty damn stupid debate tactic. ;)

chessmaster1989

Yes, and almost always my "attacks" on you have legitimacy. You just never admit they do. Actually, you basically never admit you're wrong, period. ;)

mindstorm - I don't see it that way. An eye for eye is not in effect today. If someone steals from you, you do not have the right to steal from them. Not sure what you're getting at.

Au contraire. That was not the discussion. He stated a dead belief system can't come back. I gave him an example where it has. It's as simple as that.LJS9502_basic

Nuh-ah. Thats why I emphasised that those texts (Greek/Roam literature and the other things I recommened) are not used today anymore as such - that is as religious texts. They are used and studied solely about this: their historical and literary value.

For instance the followers of the dodekatheon (I dont know how that "religion" translates to English - anyway its a minority of people who believe in the ancient greek pantheon) are scarce and seriously one wouldnt suggest that reading ancient greek mythology proselitises (sp?) you to this religion. Those texts are clearly being taught as something of the distant past.

On the other hand Christianity, is one of the three or four most active religions.

Teenaged

[QUOTE="chessmaster1989"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]If you read the thread you should be able to see it. Now in every thread where I am having a discussion with someone you tend to enter the discussion merely to attack me. Time to end that now. It's getting tiresome.

LJS9502_basic

Yes, and almost always my "attacks" on you have legitimacy. You just never admit they do. Actually, you basically never admit you're wrong, period. ;)

And, there you go with another incorrect assumption. I love seeing how many of those you make... :lol:

[QUOTE="fat_rob"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]Fine. Your initial argument was that mythology was dead and thus couldn't be compared to Christianity. Then we've both agreed paganism has made a bit of a cult comeback in some circles. Which would mean that a dead belief system can be restored. That was my point.

LJS9502_basic

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]Au contraire. That was not the discussion. He stated a dead belief system can't come back. I gave him an example where it has. It's as simple as that.Teenaged

I know, I'm just saying that the discussion of dead beliefs returning is irrelevant to the matter at hand (teaching of the bible). The real issue is the perversion of learning by teaching religious belief systems as true in an institution where it is forbidden to do so, and the teaching of a dead system is less likely to have "believers" teaching it than a system like Christianity...it doesn't matter if a dead system returns if the teaching of said system in the schools remains secular in nature...fat_rob

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]Au contraire. That was not the discussion. He stated a dead belief system can't come back. I gave him an example where it has. It's as simple as that.LJS9502_basic

(influence as in numbers and organising)

EDIT: Also all of those years when that those "religions" hadnt yet respawned (as early as the middle ages when ancient greek texts where brought to light) its a safe conclusion that the introduction of said texts was clearly for their literary and historical value.

Nope, I said that its influence is minimal compared to active religions, due to the fact that officially its a part of the distant past.

(influence as in numbers and organising)

Teenaged

Anyway your justification for mythology was this....

Thats why I emphasised that those texts (Greek/Roam literature and the other things I recommened) are not used today anymore as such - that is as religious texts. They are used and studied solely about this: their historical and literary value.Teenaged

Didn't click on the link, but is it being taught in Science class, or is it being taught in a Literature or Sociology class. I think people should have at least a very basic knowledge of the world's major religions, but if any one of them is being taught as fact there is a problem. If you teach, civil suits will come.