Is there a GOD, if so how can you tell?

[QUOTE="TheSoundSystem"]I was only pointing out on what level our knowledge was at those times... in my mind religion is out of date, because if you're following Christianity (f.ex) you're following their knowledge.mindstorm

[QUOTE="TheSoundSystem"]

I am a Muslim, too. But this doesn't prove anything as far the topic is concerned. The Qur'an is enough proof of the existance of God.ghoklebutter

How would you know? Ever wondered why God is male? Ever wondered why women are suppressed by the Qur'an? Because women had no say when it came to these Holy Books. What is the purpose of God being male? Last time I checked, only women could give birth and life.

Most atheists are agnostic, hence the term agnostic atheist.

BumFluff122

Well there are differences between those terms. A simple athiest does not believe in a god, and usually isn't open to the possibility of one. Agnostics believe that the existence of a god is unknown, and an agnostic athiest doesn't believe in god but also understands the possibility of one. At least, that's what I've always defined them. I am just a plain agnostic myself.

[QUOTE="ghoklebutter"][QUOTE="TheSoundSystem"] How would you know? Ever wondered why God is male? Ever wondered why women are suppressed by the Qur'an? Because women had no say when it came to these Holy Books. What is the purpose of God being male? Last time I checked, only women could give birth and life.TheSoundSystem

The Qur'an predicts certain events in history. (Not 9/11, lol) It predicts the war in Rome and how the Muslims would win. It predicts that the Pharoh of Egypt will drown in the Red Sea, and that his body will be preserved and shown to the world as a lesson for mankind.

If the Qur'an includes such knowledge, then I say it is proof of God.

[QUOTE="ghoklebutter"][QUOTE="TheSoundSystem"] How would you know? Ever wondered why God is male? Ever wondered why women are suppressed by the Qur'an? Because women had no say when it came to these Holy Books. What is the purpose of God being male? Last time I checked, only women could give birth and life.TheSoundSystem

No one can be 100% sure about anything, thats the point. No theory is 100% certain whether its religious or scientific theories. Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Science once say the world was flat while religion has said otherwise all along? Not being certain is the nature of human beings and its how we were created. Its called having faith and believing in the unseen. Many accepted scientific phenomena cannot be seen yet people still accept them.

[QUOTE="TheSoundSystem"]

I am a Muslim, too. But this doesn't prove anything as far the topic is concerned. The Qur'an is enough proof of the existance of God.Asim90

How would you know? Ever wondered why God is male? Ever wondered why women are suppressed by the Qur'an? Because women had no say when it came to these Holy Books. What is the purpose of God being male? Last time I checked, only women could give birth and life.

[QUOTE="_en1gma_"][QUOTE="Espada12"]

If god were to expose himself wouldn't everyone worship him? The way I see it god wants people to worship him willingly not because you know 100% sure he is watching you.

Espada12

Cause he's a god that determines your existance?

[QUOTE="BumFluff122"]

Most atheists are agnostic, hence the term agnostic atheist.

dog64

Well there are differences between those terms. A simple athiest does not believe in a god, and usually isn't open to the possibility of one. Agnostics believe that the existence of a god is unknown, and an agnostic athiest doesn't believe in god but also understands the possibility of one. At least, that's what I've always defined them. I am just a plain agnostic myself.

Exactly God works miracles and helps protect you etc and helps you through tough times. He helps you and protects you if you worship him. (There's a better way to put it than that)flowersjf

[QUOTE="Asim90"][QUOTE="TheSoundSystem"] How would you know? Ever wondered why God is male? Ever wondered why women are suppressed by the Qur'an? Because women had no say when it came to these Holy Books. What is the purpose of God being male? Last time I checked, only women could give birth and life.TheSoundSystem

I'm not making you look like a fool, I'm trying to correct your misunderstanding of something you don't understand. I'm not completely wrong about my religion, if I did not know what it fully entailed then I wouldn't believe it. There is no need to get aggressive, its just a conversation. Saying no one can know better then you is again ignorant. Of course someone can know better than you, if you aren't educated in that area. People know some thing better then I do on certain subjects. Calm down and just relax.

[QUOTE="TheSoundSystem"][QUOTE="ghoklebutter"] Who's the one who's misinformed, is all I am saying. No one can know anything for sure. You're writing about Mohammad and this happened and that happened, but can you now for sure?Asim90

No one can be 100% sure about anything, thats the point. No theory is 100% certain whether its religious or scientific theories. Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Science once say the world was flat while religion has said otherwise all along? Not being certain is the nature of human beings and its how we were created. Its called having faith and believing in the unseen. Many accepted scientific phenomena cannot be seen yet people still accept them.

God is the highest power in this world and his spirit is everywhere believe it or not. I worship him all of the time and my life has always been going great. He works miracles and always has my back when I need him. (Unfortunately Satan's spirit is here too.) flowersjf

You are grossly misinformed. The Qur'an contains knowledge no one could even dream of at the time it was revealed. No one helped Muhammad since people thought he was crazy, and he was illiterate. Therefore, it's very likely that it wasn't written by man.

God is not male. It's an error in translation, which is a reason why translations of the Qur'an are unreliable.

Don't even get me started on women's rights..

ghoklebutter

Italics: I believe I've had this same discussion with others on this forum. The supposed advanced scientific knowledge in the Qur'an has, at one point or another, been proven to be incorrect.

[QUOTE="flowersjf"]God is the highest power in this world and his spirit is everywhere believe it or not. I worship him all of the time and my life has always been going great. He works miracles and always has my back when I need him. (Unfortunately Satan's spirit is here too.) TheSoundSystem

[QUOTE="ghoklebutter"]

You are grossly misinformed. The Qur'an contains knowledge no one could even dream of at the time it was revealed. No one helped Muhammad since people thought he was crazy, and he was illiterate. Therefore, it's very likely that it wasn't written by man.

God is not male. It's an error in translation, which is a reason why translations of the Qur'an are unreliable.

Don't even get me started on women's rights..

tycoonmike

Italics: I believe I've had this same discussion with others on this forum. The supposed advanced scientific knowledge in the Qur'an has, at one point or another, been proven to be incorrect.

I don't blame you. Most of the translations are craptastic. The only way to truly understand the Qur'an is to read it in Arabic.

The knowledge isn't advanced anyway. It just explains certain scientific phonomena in certain contexts.

[QUOTE="dog64"]

[QUOTE="BumFluff122"]

Most atheists are agnostic, hence the term agnostic atheist.

BumFluff122

Well there are differences between those terms. A simple athiest does not believe in a god, and usually isn't open to the possibility of one. Agnostics believe that the existence of a god is unknown, and an agnostic athiest doesn't believe in god but also understands the possibility of one. At least, that's what I've always defined them. I am just a plain agnostic myself.

There has to be a middle ground somewhere, as agnostics really can't say either way if there is a god or not so they can't be theistic or atheistic. Take me for example. I do not claim that god exists nor do I claim that he doesn't exist, because I have no proof of either. I'm willing to accept the possibility of god existing (although I really don't believe in the Christian god) but I can also see god not existing. What would you define me as?

There has to be a middle ground somewhere, as agnostics really can't say either way if there is a god or not so they can't be theistic or atheistic.

dog64

[QUOTE="BumFluff122"]

[QUOTE="dog64"]

Well there are differences between those terms. A simple athiest does not believe in a god, and usually isn't open to the possibility of one. Agnostics believe that the existence of a god is unknown, and an agnostic athiest doesn't believe in god but also understands the possibility of one. At least, that's what I've always defined them. I am just a plain agnostic myself.

dog64

There has to be a middle ground somewhere, as agnostics really can't say either way if there is a god or not so they can't be theistic or atheistic. Take me for example. I do not claim that god exists nor do I claim that he doesn't exist, because I have no proof of either. I'm willing to accept the possibility of god existing (although I really don't believe in the Christian god) but I can also see god not existing. What would you define me as?

Agnosticism isn't a religion. It's not a theist nor atheist belief or view.TheSoundSystem

If it's not, then neither is atheism. Afterall athiests aren't religious, so why would that be a religion?

[QUOTE="TheSoundSystem"]Agnosticism isn't a religion. It's not a theist nor atheist belief or view.dog64

If it's not, then neither is atheism. Afterall athiests aren't religious, so why would that be a religion?

[QUOTE="mindstorm"][QUOTE="TheSoundSystem"]I was only pointing out on what level our knowledge was at those times... in my mind religion is out of date, because if you're following Christianity (f.ex) you're following their knowledge.BumFluff122

[QUOTE="tycoonmike"]

[QUOTE="ghoklebutter"]

You are grossly misinformed. The Qur'an contains knowledge no one could even dream of at the time it was revealed. No one helped Muhammad since people thought he was crazy, and he was illiterate. Therefore, it's very likely that it wasn't written by man.

God is not male. It's an error in translation, which is a reason why translations of the Qur'an are unreliable.

Don't even get me started on women's rights..

ghoklebutter

Italics: I believe I've had this same discussion with others on this forum. The supposed advanced scientific knowledge in the Qur'an has, at one point or another, been proven to be incorrect.

I don't blame you. Most of the translations are craptastic. The only way to truly understand the Qur'an is to read it in Arabic.

The knowledge isn't advanced anyway. It just explains certain scientific phonomena in certain contexts.

All of which have been proven false...

[QUOTE="dog64"]

[QUOTE="TheSoundSystem"]Agnosticism isn't a religion. It's not a theist nor atheist belief or view.xaos

If it's not, then neither is atheism. Afterall athiests aren't religious, so why would that be a religion?

Yes but are they a religion? And is it really agnostic = atheist and atheist = agnostic? Because I never considered myself an atheist.

[QUOTE="ghoklebutter"]

[QUOTE="tycoonmike"]

Italics: I believe I've had this same discussion with others on this forum. The supposed advanced scientific knowledge in the Qur'an has, at one point or another, been proven to be incorrect.

tycoonmike

I don't blame you. Most of the translations are craptastic. The only way to truly understand the Qur'an is to read it in Arabic.

The knowledge isn't advanced anyway. It just explains certain scientific phonomena in certain contexts.

All of which have been proven false...

In the translations, yes. They sound silly.

Also, most interpretations of the knowledge use vague verses from the Qur'an.

[QUOTE="xaos"][QUOTE="dog64"]

If it's not, then neither is atheism. Afterall athiests aren't religious, so why would that be a religion?

dog64

Yes but are they a religion? And is it really agnostic = atheist and atheist = agnostic? Because I never considered myself an atheist.

[QUOTE="dog64"]

[QUOTE="xaos"] One is a philosophical stance on the answerability of a question, the other is a belief on the answer to the question itself. The difference is somewhat subtle but definitely there.xaos

Yes but are they a religion? And is it really agnostic = atheist and atheist = agnostic? Because I never considered myself an atheist.

True but I don't see how that differs if an agnostic can be a theist or atheist, which is the same matter of faith. Even though they may may put a question mark on it, some people who don't consider themselves agnostic or atheist may do so as well.

I may be an atheist to the Christian god, but as for some type of god or creator existing, I believe that it is possible but I have no proof to say either way. So in that case I'm not a theist or an atheist. Does that mean I have no belief?

[QUOTE="BumFluff122"]

[QUOTE="dog64"]

Well there are differences between those terms. A simple athiest does not believe in a god, and usually isn't open to the possibility of one. Agnostics believe that the existence of a god is unknown, and an agnostic athiest doesn't believe in god but also understands the possibility of one. At least, that's what I've always defined them. I am just a plain agnostic myself.

dog64

There has to be a middle ground somewhere, as agnostics really can't say either way if there is a god or not so they can't be theistic or atheistic. Take me for example. I do not claim that god exists nor do I claim that he doesn't exist, because I have no proof of either. I'm willing to accept the possibility of god existing (although I really don't believe in the Christian god) but I can also see god not existing. What would you define me as?

[QUOTE="BumFluff122"]

[QUOTE="mindstorm"] If we have actually progressed as a species then I'd agree with you. The thing is, I do not believe our natures and intellect has progressed whatsoever.mindstorm

As far as we know, no, there is no god, anyone who says otherwise is in hard denial. We don't even know what "god" is, it's a complete arbitrary concept that makes as much sense as the tooth fairy. We cannot describe and make claims about something that we cannot observe.

The first step is to actually provide a clear cut definition of "god" because there is so many ambiguations regarding the concept. An omnipotent god is impossible to prove to exist due to infinite regression.

Any other kind of god that is not omnipotent is just silly because the concept is entirely relative and subjective. For example: to ants, we humans might be god to them. If we were to encounter an entity that we cannot fully comprehend and deem it as "god" then that would just be absurd. So unless we can provide empirical evidence to the existence of an omnipotent being and at the same time disproving infinite regression (this is impossible by the way), we will never know that god exists.

[QUOTE="OldGeek88"]

I can't go on faith. I need some physical real evidence. How do you know there is a GOD?

DragonRebel0908

You ever been through a hard time in your life and got through it? You ever been sad, depressed, lonely, etc. and things got better for you? Ever really desired something and got it? There is your evidence. You can't physically see what's not physical. The point is that God is the creator and ruler of this world but he is far higher than this world. He is spirit but he manifests himself into things in the world. Satan does the same.

Very well said. Oh and TC, if that too isn't good enough for you, ever heard of Jesus Christ?

[QUOTE="DragonRebel0908"]

[QUOTE="OldGeek88"]

I can't go on faith. I need some physical real evidence. How do you know there is a GOD?

maverick_41

You ever been through a hard time in your life and got through it? You ever been sad, depressed, lonely, etc. and things got better for you? Ever really desired something and got it? There is your evidence. You can't physically see what's not physical. The point is that God is the creator and ruler of this world but he is far higher than this world. He is spirit but he manifests himself into things in the world. Satan does the same.

Very well said. Oh and TC, if that too isn't good enough for you, ever heard of Jesus Christ?

[QUOTE="tycoonmike"]

[QUOTE="ghoklebutter"]

I don't blame you. Most of the translations are craptastic. The only way to truly understand the Qur'an is to read it in Arabic.

The knowledge isn't advanced anyway. It just explains certain scientific phonomena in certain contexts.

ghoklebutter

All of which have been proven false...

In the translations, yes. They sound silly.

Also, most interpretations of the knowledge use vague verses from the Qur'an.

There is nothing within any religion that isn't vague and open to interpretation. Indeed, if the Qur'an itself wasn't vague, why are there several different schools of thought when it comes to the interpretation of the Qur'an, like Sunni and Shi'a? The same thing can be seen in Christianity (Catholicism and Protestantism), Judaism (Messianic, etc.), Hinduism (Vedic, Vedantic, etc.), and so on. Religion by its very nature is vague.

[QUOTE="ghoklebutter"]

[QUOTE="tycoonmike"]

All of which have been proven false...

tycoonmike

In the translations, yes. They sound silly.

Also, most interpretations of the knowledge use vague verses from the Qur'an.

There is nothing within any religion that isn't vague and open to interpretation. Indeed, if the Qur'an itself wasn't vague, why are there several different schools of thought when it comes to the interpretation of the Qur'an, like Sunni and Shi'a? The same thing can be seen in Christianity (Catholicism and Protestantism), Judaism (Messianic, etc.), Hinduism (Vedic, Vedantic, etc.), and so on. Religion by its very nature is vague.

I disagree. The Qur'an is usually very easy to understand. People say these wierd interpretations because well, they're crazy. :P The different schools are the result of dissagreements between tribes, religious zealots, etc.

If god were to expose himself wouldn't everyone worship him? The way I see it god wants people to worship him willingly not because you know 100% sure he is watching you.

Espada12

You can say this is BS if you like (knock yourself out - I'm honestly not bothered :P) - basically, I have depression and usually when I feel down I try to sleep it off. Unfortunately, a few weeks ago I started feeling horrible while I was at work. Energy levels slumped, couldn't focus on anything, started having suicidal thoughts yada yada yada. So, I went to the toilet cubicle and started crying and in a moment of desperation I said this in my head (as cheesy as it is) - "Please, God just prove to me that I can feel okay. I need to know its not hopeless". After saying that, I felt... something (kind of felt like a hand) touch my back and all the pain I was feeling vanished for about 30 seconds.

So yeah, draw what you want to from that. Think I'm crazy or whatever. As I said, it doesn't bother me.

manicfoot

Thats just endorphines that were released in your brain, from the aftermath of crying.

[QUOTE="tycoonmike"]

[QUOTE="ghoklebutter"]

In the translations, yes. They sound silly.

Also, most interpretations of the knowledge use vague verses from the Qur'an.

ghoklebutter

There is nothing within any religion that isn't vague and open to interpretation. Indeed, if the Qur'an itself wasn't vague, why are there several different schools of thought when it comes to the interpretation of the Qur'an, like Sunni and Shi'a? The same thing can be seen in Christianity (Catholicism and Protestantism), Judaism (Messianic, etc.), Hinduism (Vedic, Vedantic, etc.), and so on. Religion by its very nature is vague.

I disagree. The Qur'an is usually very easy to understand. People say these wierd interpretations because well, they're crazy. :P The different schools are the result of dissagreements between tribes, religious zealots, etc.

The difference being that I may understand the passages differently than you do. Which interpretation is right? Is either of them right?

and then you stand before God after you leave this world...then what are you do? What can you do. When he asks why didnt you believe are you going to say.."the signs were'nt clear enough." I dont mean to be offensive but belief in what is unknown isnt exactly rational or irrational

[QUOTE="ghoklebutter"]

[QUOTE="tycoonmike"]

There is nothing within any religion that isn't vague and open to interpretation. Indeed, if the Qur'an itself wasn't vague, why are there several different schools of thought when it comes to the interpretation of the Qur'an, like Sunni and Shi'a? The same thing can be seen in Christianity (Catholicism and Protestantism), Judaism (Messianic, etc.), Hinduism (Vedic, Vedantic, etc.), and so on. Religion by its very nature is vague.

tycoonmike

I disagree. The Qur'an is usually very easy to understand. People say these wierd interpretations because well, they're crazy. :P The different schools are the result of dissagreements between tribes, religious zealots, etc.

The difference being that I may understand the passages differently than you do. Which interpretation is right? Is either of them right?

and then you stand before God after you leave this world...then what are you do? What can you do. When he asks why didnt you believe are you going to say.."the signs werentclear enough." I dont mean to be offensive but belief in what is unknown isnt exactly rational or irrationalanasbouzid

Well one day I said if there is a god let it ran knives and it did so I thought that was go enough proof... Nah not real there is no way of telling I'll only belive in God if he comes down and say hey im real I can't see the point in worshiping something that most likely isn't real. Blind faith is needed and another word for blind faith is stupidty

His power is evident in my life...