Is there a GOD, if so how can you tell?

Well if we knew that there was a God, then there wouldn't really be much point in believing that there is a God. :P

[QUOTE="tomo90"]

Physical evidence would destroy the point in faith.

TheSoundSystem

Umm. No.

Physical evidence would destroy the point in faith.

[QUOTE="tomo90"]

Physical evidence would destroy the point in faith.

TheSoundSystem

No, poor understanding of faith is the root of all evil, 95% of the world believes in God- not all of them are good citizens- but most of them do OK, religions don't make people evil. It's pretending that you are religious causes all the troubles, you cannot be religious until you feel the religion in your heart.

There is no objective proof of god. If godit real, he made it this way so that we can kill each other over it.

god loves his children.... :/

I'm just pointing out the definition of faith. By the by your definition of agnostic is false if you take into account what you've been posting. Agnostism is more acceptance, acceptance of there being more but at our current level of spiritual and academic development we cannot understand. You seem to be questioning everything, trying to find answers from chaos. Thats my impression anyway.

No, poor understanding of faith is the root of all evil, 95% of the world believes in God- not all of them are good citizens- but most of them do OK, religions don't make people evil. It's pretending that you are religious causes all the troubles, you cannot be religious until you feel the religion in your heart.

I'm just pointing out the definition of faith. By the by your definition of agnostic is false if you take into account what you've been posting. Agnostism is more acceptance, acceptance of there being more but at our current level of spiritual and academic development we cannot understand. You seem to be questioning everything, trying to find answers from chaos. Thats my impression anyway. TheSoundSystem

How is it wrong? I am completely allowed to post such things, despite my religious views. There are many types of Agnosticism, as you may know. I consider myself to be a weak agnostic (-the view that the existence or nonexistence of any deities is currently unknown but is not necessarily unknowable, therefore one will withhold judgment until/if any evidence is available. A weak agnostic would say, "I don't know whether any deities exist or not, but maybe one day when there is more evidence we can find something out.") -wikipedia

I can't go on faith. I need some physical real evidence. How do you know there is a GOD?

OldGeek88

I'm not saying you can't post :?, I am not a religious fanatic, take my word on that, just saying the impression your giving is not of an agnostic.

I'm not saying you can't post :?, I am not a religious fanatic, take my word on that, just saying the impression your giving is not of an agnostic.TheSoundSystem

I am neutral. If God reveals him/her/itself I will not deny or reject him/her/it. However, I am seeking answers. And in order to seek answers you need to question. By my former posts I was just looking for educated theists who could actually give answers with enough logic and sense to it.

[QUOTE="TheSoundSystem"]

I'm not saying you can't post :?, I am not a religious fanatic, take my word on that, just saying the impression your giving is not of an agnostic.tomo90

I am neutral. If God reveals him/her/itself I will not deny or reject him/her/it. However, I am seeking answers. And in order to seek answers you need to question. By my former posts I was just looking for educated theists who could actually give answers with enough logic and sense to it.

Things are not much different if you look closely, religious scholars are now replaced by scientific pundits who think there are advanced beings living on other planets, while that might be true so are the religious scholars.......just adding a new word "science" doesn't change the whole object, incapacity to understand the complex universe makes man create superior beings of extraordinary power....in the end Human beings want truth, they'll choose whatever medium they are comfortable with, all are right. When you objectify the concept of God, it'll take longer to reach the truth.

He wears a name tag and has a sign on his office door and desk.

I believe in God myself , but you can't prove it physically. for example can you see wisdom? NO. does that mean there isn't any wisdom? NO. another example is Oxygen.

and besides, who do you think keeps such a harmony and grace in the world? surely it's not randomly.

If you want to believe god,try to answer this question to yourself: Who created the first human{or element} in the world?

As a Muslim, my proof is the Koran. The book has a reasonably thorough explaination of the human birth process, something that no one knew about at Muhammad's time. Since it was proven he was illiterate, there is no way he could have learn said process, let alone learn to read and write it in a book. No one else helped him because they thought he was a mad man.

Also, there is a supplication which Muslims use to find lost possesions. It has ALWAYS worked in my experience.

Just throwing it out there.

As a Muslim, my proof is the Koran. The book has a reasonably thorough explaination of the human birth process, something that no one knew about at Muhammad's time. Since it was proven he was illiterate, there is no way he could have learn said process, let alone learn to read and write it in a book. No one else helped him because they thought he was a mad man.

Also, there is a supplication which Muslims use to find lost possesions. It has ALWAYS worked in my experience.

Just throwing it out there.

ghoklebutter

What if they learned those things through non-divine means? People often make arguments like (about the big bang, the universe, life on Earth etc) "It's too random," "but what was before the big bang," but if there was no divinity involved, then for arguments sake those things did come about on their own. People did learn things without divine infuence.

What then?

Ummm ok, good luck with that. Religious scholars have been trying to do that for centuries. Doubt your going to find any breakthrough logical answers on Gamespot concerned with the existance of a supreme being.TheSoundSystem

I didn't make the thread you're posting on. I wasn't born with the same knowledge these scholars had been gathering for centuries. I need to learn for myself, no matter where I gather information. People on Gamespot aren't dumber than people on Wikipedia, they might even be the same people.

well said. also, i like your logical arguing. normally people that don't believe in god simply say "yeah? but how do you KNOW?" which is frankly, infuriating. For the record, I think this is a stupid thread/question to ask, and I'm a Christian.

Firstly, how can you demand physical proof of an entity which by definition must be non-physical. That's like asking someone to prove the existence of "red". It's wholly a subjective, non-physical, human conception, and therefore can not be "proven".

I personally believe that we tend to believe in a higher power because our minds simply cannot comprehend the vastness of the Infinite, nor the idea that there could simply be utter, unending chaos stretching away through space, without end. So we create various "gods" to explain otherwise inexplicable phenomena, in fact, "God" is what is known as a "noumenon", that is, a "thing-in-itself", which can be known only via the mind's eye. These "noumenonic gods" (my word, apologies :P) have varied from the god of fire, earth, wind etc in more primitive times, to the complex concepts of god we have now. Does God exist objectively outside of this? As a Christian, I am impelled to say yes. As a (would-be) philosopher, I must say no. The reconciliation of these two positions is a difficult process, and has as yet not been successfully completed (in my opinion).

If I were to try to provide such a reconciliation, I would say that we were must first abstract God from the numerous gods. By that I mean, we must ignore religious differences and say God is merely some higher, creative force AND NOTHING MORE. To start presenting judgements of will, morality, and worship is to confuse the concept of God in itself, and the teachings of religion. This is by no means easy, since all we know of God comes from various religious teachings. But if we can do so, at least to a reasonable degree, we can see that the presence of God is no longer a possibility, but a NECESSITY. For how else can the psychological profile I outlined earlier be explained? Faith has no place in evolutionary science, and its presence would not aid natural selection. THerefore its origins must come from somewhere else. I refuse to believe it is a random occurrence, a freak of the genetics of the brain, since that is too blase a response. I think it is a characteristic that comes from somewhere in our origins. Where that origin is, nobody knows, or ever will know. I say it is part of God's design, you are free to disagree.

Even if this particular line of argument is unsatisfactory, I ask you this. If there is no God, what created the Universe? An intelligent person would reply "the Big Bang", but then you must ask yourself what started the Big Bang? What placed the matter into the empty space, what sparked the initial gravitational forces, what wrote the rules of thermonuclear fusion that allowed stars, and therefore worlds to exist, and to live? There is NO explanation for that, since there is nothing to allow us to see it. The inexplicable forces that do explain those things, could also be called God, if you were so inclined. Indeed, it would be a severely limited God, and nothing like gods we have come to know and "love", but still God nonetheless.

Apologies for any lack of clarity. Hope you enjoy my ramblings :)

well said. also, i like your logical arguing. normally people that don't believe in god simply say "yeah? but how do you KNOW?" which is frankly, infuriating. For the record, I think this is a stupid thread/question to ask, and I'm a Christian.

Firstly, how can you demand physical proof of an entity which by definition must be non-physical. That's like asking someone to prove the existence of "red". It's wholly a subjective, non-physical, human conception, and therefore can not be "proven".

I personally believe that we tend to believe in a higher power because our minds simply cannot comprehend the vastness of the Infinite, nor the idea that there could simply be utter, unending chaos stretching away through space, without end. So we create various "gods" to explain otherwise inexplicable phenomena, in fact, "God" is what is known as a "noumenon", that is, a "thing-in-itself", which can be known only via the mind's eye. These "noumenonic gods" (my word, apologies :P) have varied from the god of fire, earth, wind etc in more primitive times, to the complex concepts of god we have now. Does God exist objectively outside of this? As a Christian, I am impelled to say yes. As a (would-be) philosopher, I must say no. The reconciliation of these two positions is a difficult process, and has as yet not been successfully completed (in my opinion).

If I were to try to provide such a reconciliation, I would say that we were must first abstract God from the numerous gods. By that I mean, we must ignore religious differences and say God is merely some higher, creative force AND NOTHING MORE. To start presenting judgements of will, morality, and worship is to confuse the concept of God in itself, and the teachings of religion. This is by no means easy, since all we know of God comes from various religious teachings. But if we can do so, at least to a reasonable degree, we can see that the presence of God is no longer a possibility, but a NECESSITY. For how else can the psychological profile I outlined earlier be explained? Faith has no place in evolutionary science, and its presence would not aid natural selection. THerefore its origins must come from somewhere else. I refuse to believe it is a random occurrence, a freak of the genetics of the brain, since that is too blase a response. I think it is a characteristic that comes from somewhere in our origins. Where that origin is, nobody knows, or ever will know. I say it is part of God's design, you are free to disagree.

Even if this particular line of argument is unsatisfactory, I ask you this. If there is no God, what created the Universe? An intelligent person would reply "the Big Bang", but then you must ask yourself what started the Big Bang? What placed the matter into the empty space, what sparked the initial gravitational forces, what wrote the rules of thermonuclear fusion that allowed stars, and therefore worlds to exist, and to live? There is NO explanation for that, since there is nothing to allow us to see it. The inexplicable forces that do explain those things, could also be called God, if you were so inclined. Indeed, it would be a severely limited God, and nothing like gods we have come to know and "love", but still God nonetheless.

Apologies for any lack of clarity. Hope you enjoy my ramblings :)

shaunk89

Excellent post.

There is no physical evidence to prove the existance of God, and there never will be.super_mario_128

Because he is a metaphysical being.

You expect me to believe in something that men wrote in a book some time ago? Dream on.

I believe in God myself , but you can't prove it physically. for example can you see wisdom? NO. does that mean there isn't any wisdom? NO. another example is Oxygen.

and besides, who do you think keeps such a harmony and grace in the world? surely it's not randomly.

If you want to believe god,try to answer this question to yourself: Who created the first human{or element} in the world?

herzalot

The existence of this universe. Someone/something must've started it on the first place. Even if it comes from a single matter, there should be a creator.m45t3rch13f

[QUOTE="m45t3rch13f"]The existence of this universe. Someone/something must've started it on the first place. Even if it comes from a single matter, there should be a creator.BumFluff122

There could be just a ball of energy controlling everything, who knows.

I personally believe in God because it gives the world a meaning. I choose to believe in us and the world having a purpose instead of us just existing for no reason.

You cannot know the unknowable. If God truly is worthy of our worship, It cannot be anything other than infinite. Infinite power, infinite knowledge, infinite breadth of emotion, It would simply be ∞. Thus, if God is infinite, It can never be known by beings who are, by nature, finite. Much like how a real number cannot truly describe the mathematical concept of infinity, any concept we claim God to be a champion of is both right and wrong.

Of course there is. ...As for an all powerful being that created the universe...I don't know...there is no real proof for or against it...its all a matter of personal beleifs... Darth-Caedus

he has awesome hair 8) i will gladly worship such a god with that kind of awesome

Even if this particular line of argument is unsatisfactory, I ask you this. If there is no God, what created the Universe? An intelligent person would reply "the Big Bang", but then you must ask yourself what started the Big Bang? What placed the matter into the empty space, what sparked the initial gravitational forces, what wrote the rules of thermonuclear fusion that allowed stars, and therefore worlds to exist, and to live? There is NO explanation for that, since there is nothing to allow us to see it. The inexplicable forces that do explain those things, could also be called God, if you were so inclined. Indeed, it would be a severely limited God, and nothing like gods we have come to know and "love", but still God nonetheless. Apologies for any lack of clarity. Hope you enjoy my ramblings :)

I am a muslim and here is what I say.

I believe in god being as he is described in the Quran. That he is One, The Everlasting, neither begets nor is begotten and no one is like Him.

In the Quran, many of Gods characteristics are mentioned (like above which comes from a very small, well-known chapter in the Quran). It is important to mention some because one can attain some understanding from them.

God has no beginning and no end.

He is a entity, because the Quran mentions that He will reveal himself to some of the most beloved of his creation. So in escence he reveal himself when he wants to to whom or what he wants to.

All power belongs to him.

He is the source of all that is good.

He does what he will.

When he want something to be, he says 'Be!' and it is.

He is Superior to everything for everything is His creation and he has control over it all.

He knows everythiing; He knows what was, what is and what will be.

Note: it is possible to know what is and what will be if you know exactly what was-see Chaos Theory

If he revealed himself. Belief in god would no longer be a question of belief, it would be a question of rational vs irrational.

We believe in God to avoid his punishment and gain his reward. His punishment is severe (far more than we understand) and his reward is generous (and is far better than we understand)

This world and this life will feel like a couple forgotten seconds compared to our entire existance and so it is nothing. Do you remember your birthday when you where 3?

There is so much more I want to say but I got to go.

I am a muslim and here is what I say.

I believe in god being as he is described in the Quran. That he is One, The Everlasting, neither begets nor is begotten and no one is like Him.

In the Quran, many of Gods characteristics are mentioned (like above which comes from a very small, well-known chapter in the Quran). It is important to mention some because one can attain some understanding from them.

God has no beginning and no end.

He is a entity, because the Quran mentions that He will reveal himself to some of the most beloved of his creation. So in escence he reveal himself when he wants to to whom or what he wants to.

All power belongs to him.

He is the source of all that is good.

He does what he will.

When he want something to be, he says 'Be!' and it is.

He is Superior to everything for everything is His creation and he has control over it all.

He knows everythiing; He knows what was, what is and what will be.

Note: it is possible to know what is and what will be if you know exactly what was-see Chaos Theory

If he revealed himself. Belief in god would no longer be a question of belief, it would be a question of rational vs irrational.

We believe in God to avoid his punishment and gain his reward. His punishment is severe (far more than we understand) and his reward is generous (and is far better than we understand)

This world and this life will feel like a couple forgotten seconds compared to our entire existance and so it is nothing. Do you remember your birthday when you where 3?

There is so much more I want to say but I got to go.

anasbouzid

I am a Muslim, too. But this doesn't prove anything as far the topic is concerned.

The Qur'an is enough proof of the existance of God.

pray for something and if it appears, then GOD exists.

In my mind no one holds the truth. A theist claims God exists, atheists cannot prove this to be false and therefore the theory of God's existance still stands. An atheist claims God does not exist, theists cannot prove this to false and therefore the theory of God's non-existance still stands. The only proof of God's existance is the Holy Books. Keep in mind that these books were written by men even before women were thrown on the waters to prove their guilt as witches. And before this God's words were passed along orally and words, sentences and paragraphs tend to change quite easily this way. - They believed witches existed, why not supernatural creators? - They way they proved the women's guilt was just plain stupid. If the women floated they were guilty and if they drowned they were innocent, but they drowned anyway. Sure, there might be a God. However, I believe our view on our "modern" God is out of date.TheSoundSystem

I am a Muslim, too. But this doesn't prove anything as far the topic is concerned.

The Qur'an is enough proof of the existance of God.

ghoklebutter

How can something written by man, even if it's divinely inspired, ever be able to fully describe and prove the existence of God?

I am a Muslim, too. But this doesn't prove anything as far the topic is concerned. The Qur'an is enough proof of the existance of God.

[QUOTE="TheSoundSystem"]In my mind no one holds the truth. A theist claims God exists, atheists cannot prove this to be false and therefore the theory of God's existance still stands. An atheist claims God does not exist, theists cannot prove this to false and therefore the theory of God's non-existance still stands. The only proof of God's existance is the Holy Books. Keep in mind that these books were written by men even before women were thrown on the waters to prove their guilt as witches. And before this God's words were passed along orally and words, sentences and paragraphs tend to change quite easily this way. - They believed witches existed, why not supernatural creators? - They way they proved the women's guilt was just plain stupid. If the women floated they were guilty and if they drowned they were innocent, but they drowned anyway. Sure, there might be a God. However, I believe our view on our "modern" God is out of date.mindstorm

Personally I don't see how anyone can be so confident that he exists. If you look at the big picture and really question yourself on your beliefs, you will probably see that nobody can be 100% certain. Sure there's the Bible, which is definitely a book that no average man wrote, but look at Shakespeare and his brilliant vocabulary and poetry. So who's to say where the Bible originated.

I was only pointing out on what level our knowledge was at those times... in my mind religion is out of date, because if you're following Christianity (f.ex) you're following their knowledge.TheSoundSystem

I am a Muslim, too. But this doesn't prove anything as far the topic is concerned. The Qur'an is enough proof of the existance of God.TheSoundSystem

How would you know? Ever wondered why God is male? Ever wondered why women are suppressed by the Qur'an? Because women had no say when it came to these Holy Books. What is the purpose of God being male? Last time I checked, only women could give birth and life.

I think God is described as male since he created man in his own image. Also, I'm guessing you meant oppressed when you said suppressed, which is incorrect anyway. This is typical ignorance coming from people that know very little about actual religions. You're right about only women being able to give birth though.

In my mind no one holds the truth. A theist claims God exists, atheists cannot prove this to be false and therefore the theory of God's existance still stands. An atheist claims God does not exist, theists cannot prove this to false and therefore the theory of God's non-existance still stands. The only proof of God's existance is the Holy Books. Keep in mind that these books were written by men even before women were thrown on the waters to prove their guilt as witches. And before this God's words were passed along orally and words, sentences and paragraphs tend to change quite easily this way. - They believed witches existed, why not supernatural creators? - They way they proved the women's guilt was just plain stupid. If the women floated they were guilty and if they drowned they were innocent, but they drowned anyway. Sure, there might be a God. However, I believe our view on our "modern" God is out of date.TheSoundSystem

I am a Muslim, too. But this doesn't prove anything as far the topic is concerned. The Qur'an is enough proof of the existance of God.TheSoundSystem

How would you know? Ever wondered why God is male? Ever wondered why women are suppressed by the Qur'an? Because women had no say when it came to these Holy Books. What is the purpose of God being male? Last time I checked, only women could give birth and life.

You are grossly misinformed. The Qur'an contains knowledge no one could even dream of at the time it was revealed. No one helped Muhammad since people thought he was crazy, and he was illiterate. Therefore, it's very likely that it wasn't written by man.

God is not male. It's an error in translation, which is a reason why translations of the Qur'an are unreliable.

Don't even get me started on women's rights..