I just ordered a pizza.... how much do YOU tip?

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Omni-Slash

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#151 Omni-Slash
Member since 2003 • 54450 Posts
sa pizza is $22 I'll tip 3....$22.50 I'll tip $3.50 ....whatever makes my reciept an even number.....if there is a delivery fee..I tip nothing.....
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mrbojangles25

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#152 mrbojangles25
Member since 2005 • 58534 Posts

sa pizza is $22 I'll tip 3....$22.50 I'll tip $3.50 ....whatever makes my reciept an even number.....if there is a delivery fee..I tip nothing.....Omni-Slash

out of curiosity, does the delivery fee go to the driver? Or is it just some stupid extra fee to make them more money?

I dont tip if there is a fee either, but I've always wondered that...

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Omni-Slash

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#153 Omni-Slash
Member since 2003 • 54450 Posts
[QUOTE="mrbojangles25"]

out of curiosity, does the delivery fee go to the driver? Or is it just some stupid extra fee to make them more money?

I dont tip if there is a fee either, but I've always wondered that...

I think it goes to the driver...I have a cousin-in law that works for pizza place and he says the delivery fee is usually instituted in an area that people aren't tipping in....because it gets hard for them to get drivers....
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wstfld

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#154 wstfld
Member since 2008 • 6375 Posts

[QUOTE="Omni-Slash"]sa pizza is $22 I'll tip 3....$22.50 I'll tip $3.50 ....whatever makes my reciept an even number.....if there is a delivery fee..I tip nothing.....mrbojangles25

out of curiosity, does the delivery fee go to the driver? Or is it just some stupid extra fee to make them more money?

I dont tip if there is a fee either, but I've always wondered that...

When I was delivering pizza, I didn't get the delivery fee. I rarely went to an address that didn't tip me though, even the poor people. That there are so many people on OT that don't tip is surprising to me. Maybe in NJ people tip and they don't tip in other places. In NC the delivery driver has this look of complete surprise when I tip him 20%. They thank me like I saved their life or something.
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mrbojangles25

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#155 mrbojangles25
Member since 2005 • 58534 Posts

[QUOTE="mrbojangles25"]

[QUOTE="Omni-Slash"]sa pizza is $22 I'll tip 3....$22.50 I'll tip $3.50 ....whatever makes my reciept an even number.....if there is a delivery fee..I tip nothing.....wstfld

out of curiosity, does the delivery fee go to the driver? Or is it just some stupid extra fee to make them more money?

I dont tip if there is a fee either, but I've always wondered that...

When I was delivering pizza, I didn't get the delivery fee. I rarely went to an address that didn't tip me though, even the poor people. That there are so many people on OT that don't tip is surprising to me. Maybe in NJ people tip and they don't tip in other places. In NC the delivery driver has this look of complete surprise when I tip him 20%. They thank me like I saved their life or something.

Yea I tip in every situation except when there is a delivery fee. I always assumed the fee goes to the driver, but I guess not :(

Either way, I still won't tip if there is a delivery fee. If drivers take issue with it, they can chew out their boss, not the customer lol. The cost of gas should be incorporated into the cost of the pizza, not some extra charge tacked on.

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guildclaws

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#156 guildclaws
Member since 2009 • 7921 Posts
A million dollars!!!! :D
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mexicangordo

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#157 mexicangordo
Member since 2005 • 8687 Posts

I never order Pizza. But i tip depending on service.

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MrGeezer

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#158 MrGeezer
Member since 2002 • 59765 Posts

The cost of gas should be incorporated into the cost of the pizza, not some extra charge tacked on.

mrbojangles25

But how is that better? Then customers would be paying for the service even if they go pick up the pizza themselves. Doesn't it make more sense for that extra charge to only be paid for by the people actually using the service?

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Teenaged

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#159 Teenaged
Member since 2007 • 31764 Posts

[QUOTE="mrbojangles25"]The cost of gas should be incorporated into the cost of the pizza, not some extra charge tacked on.

MrGeezer

But how is that better? Then customers would be paying for the service even if they go pick up the pizza themselves. Doesn't it make more sense for that extra charge to only be paid for by the people actually using the service?

They can charge differently for when you go to take it directly from the store.

Same thing they do in some cafaterias with coffee. If you take your coffee and sit on a table then you pay a higher price than when you take the coffee to-go.

Although in this case the difference is that the higher price is because the customers use the facilities the cafeteria offers and pays rent for (sofas, tables etc).

His point I think was: make this added price official, make it part of the price-list.

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grape_of_wrath

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#160 grape_of_wrath
Member since 2009 • 3756 Posts
I don't tip the pizza guy. :\
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mrbojangles25

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#161 mrbojangles25
Member since 2005 • 58534 Posts

[QUOTE="mrbojangles25"]The cost of gas should be incorporated into the cost of the pizza, not some extra charge tacked on.

MrGeezer

But how is that better? Then customers would be paying for the service even if they go pick up the pizza themselves. Doesn't it make more sense for that extra charge to only be paid for by the people actually using the service?

sorry lol I did not mean they should raise and lower the price of the pizza according to gas prices, I am saying that whatever money they make should cover gas as well. Pizza is shockingly inexpensive to make.

I worded myself poorly.

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HotRevolver

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#162 HotRevolver
Member since 2009 • 532 Posts

I tip a mininum of $3, no matter what. What a lot of people don't know is that the delivery charge goes straight to the companies pockets, not the driver. So a tip should be reflected based off of the total price before the shipping charge.

Like last night, I ordered a large from Pizza Hut. Total was $12 w/ $2 shipping charge. I gave the dude $5 because it was **** outside and I know a lot of people don't tip well or even at all (and if you want evidence of this...look at some of the ignorant people in this thread). I also gave him a bong hit for the road, something he really appreciated.

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SpideR_CentS

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#163 SpideR_CentS
Member since 2006 • 4766 Posts

I tip 20% in any situation that calls for tipping.

So, $20 pizza? $4 tip.

-starman-

Same unless its bad service.

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MrGeezer

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#164 MrGeezer
Member since 2002 • 59765 Posts

[QUOTE="MrGeezer"]

[QUOTE="mrbojangles25"]The cost of gas should be incorporated into the cost of the pizza, not some extra charge tacked on.

Teenaged

But how is that better? Then customers would be paying for the service even if they go pick up the pizza themselves. Doesn't it make more sense for that extra charge to only be paid for by the people actually using the service?

They can charge differently for when you go to take it directly from the store.

Same thing they do in some cafaterias with coffee. If you take your coffee and sit on a table then you pay a higher price than when you take the coffee to-go.

Although in this case the difference is that the higher price is because the customers use the facilities the cafeteria offers and pays rent for (sofas, tables etc).

His point I think was: make this added price official, make it part of the price-list.

But if you charge a different price for the pick-up pizza and delivery pizza, then that's EXACTLY the same as simply slapping on a service charge in the case of delivery.

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Pat-Bateman23

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#165 Pat-Bateman23
Member since 2010 • 210 Posts

Why would I tip the pizza guy?

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HotRevolver

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#166 HotRevolver
Member since 2009 • 532 Posts

Why would I tip the pizza guy?

Pat-Bateman23
Because it's the right thing to do? They don't make much, tips are everything. It's also a dangerous job.
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Teenaged

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#167 Teenaged
Member since 2007 • 31764 Posts

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]

[QUOTE="MrGeezer"]

But how is that better? Then customers would be paying for the service even if they go pick up the pizza themselves. Doesn't it make more sense for that extra charge to only be paid for by the people actually using the service?

MrGeezer

They can charge differently for when you go to take it directly from the store.

Same thing they do in some cafaterias with coffee. If you take your coffee and sit on a table then you pay a higher price than when you take the coffee to-go.

Although in this case the difference is that the higher price is because the customers use the facilities the cafeteria offers and pays rent for (sofas, tables etc).

His point I think was: make this added price official, make it part of the price-list.

But if you charge a different price for the pick-up pizza and delivery pizza, then that's EXACTLY the same as simply slapping on a service charge in the case of delivery.

When it comes to what I end up paying, yes it is.

But just to make myself clear, I do tip deliverymen, and its not so much the extra cost of tipping that bothers me. Its the rationale behind having such a system. Basically its pretty much asking for the customer to compensate for the low wages and delivery costs (if they arent stated in the price list) after the event of purchasing the product, in an unofficial manner just because the company will refuse to add those to their prices officially so that their products dont appear pricey. Personally, that irks me. If they want me to pay for something and they think the whole service deserves it, add it to the price-list.

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#168 MrGeezer
Member since 2002 • 59765 Posts

But just to make myself clear, I do tip deliverymen, and its not so much the extra cost of tipping that bothers me. Its the rationale behind having such a system. Basically its pretty much asking for the customer to compensate for the low wages and delivery costs (if they arent stated in the price list) after the event of purchasing the product, in an unofficial manner just because the company will refuse to add those to their prices officially so that their products dont appear pricey. Personally, that irks me. If they want me to pay for something and they think the whole service deserves it, add it to the price-list.

Teenaged

Firstly, I wasn't talking about a "tip", I was talking about a mandatory service fee. The difference being that with a tip, you just plain don't have to pay it.

Secondly, you would still be paying for the dude's wages if Pizza Hut flat out just decided to give him a higher wage. The difference is that now you would HAVE to pay good-service-prices even when your pizza arrives cold two hours later. Essentially, you'd be forced to pay for service that you didn't get. At least with tips, you don't have to pay if the service stunk. How is that not clearly a benefit to the customer?

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Shad0ki11

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#169 Shad0ki11
Member since 2006 • 12576 Posts

I tip $2-$4.

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testfactor888

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#171 testfactor888
Member since 2010 • 7157 Posts

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]

But just to make myself clear, I do tip deliverymen, and its not so much the extra cost of tipping that bothers me. Its the rationale behind having such a system. Basically its pretty much asking for the customer to compensate for the low wages and delivery costs (if they arent stated in the price list) after the event of purchasing the product, in an unofficial manner just because the company will refuse to add those to their prices officially so that their products dont appear pricey. Personally, that irks me. If they want me to pay for something and they think the whole service deserves it, add it to the price-list.

MrGeezer

Firstly, I wasn't talking about a "tip", I was talking about a mandatory service fee. The difference being that with a tip, you just plain don't have to pay it.

Secondly, you would still be paying for the dude's wages if Pizza Hut flat out just decided to give him a higher wage. The difference is that now you would HAVE to pay good-service-prices even when your pizza arrives cold two hours later. Essentially, you'd be forced to pay for service that you didn't get. At least with tips, you don't have to pay if the service stunk. How is that not clearly a benefit to the customer?

If my pizza arrived 2 hours later and cold I would refuse to pay and send him back to the restaurant with the pizza telling them to forget it.

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Teenaged

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#172 Teenaged
Member since 2007 • 31764 Posts

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]

But just to make myself clear, I do tip deliverymen, and its not so much the extra cost of tipping that bothers me. Its the rationale behind having such a system. Basically its pretty much asking for the customer to compensate for the low wages and delivery costs (if they arent stated in the price list) after the event of purchasing the product, in an unofficial manner just because the company will refuse to add those to their prices officially so that their products dont appear pricey. Personally, that irks me. If they want me to pay for something and they think the whole service deserves it, add it to the price-list.

MrGeezer

Firstly, I wasn't talking about a "tip", I was talking about a mandatory service fee. The difference being that with a tip, you just plain don't have to pay it.

Secondly, you would still be paying for the dude's wages if Pizza Hut flat out just decided to give him a higher wage. The difference is that now you would HAVE to pay good-service-prices even when your pizza arrives cold two hours later. Essentially, you'd be forced to pay for service that you didn't get. At least with tips, you don't have to pay if the service stunk. How is that not clearly a benefit to the customer?

Ah ok. So mandatory service fee is for other costs and the like?

I'm not saying the tipping system cant be used by the customer for his/her own benefit or that it is altogether useless (after all it is helpful for the underpaid delivery-men/waiters). Just that I dont agree with people who find it inhumane/abnormal/ridiculous or what have you to not tip (now I am not sure if they also advocate tipping no matter the quality of the service).

Its just that as a consumer I prefer to know beforehand what I am paying, "officially". Now whether or not that tactic is ultimately good for me as a customer and the service I receive, I do not know, but at the same time I wouldnt say that it makes a huge difference to the service I receive since here (and this is slightly off topic) when it comes to waiters/waitresses, some percentage is added as a tip in the foods price, so you have less reason to tip than in the US but still I dont see the waiters/waitresses not do their job properly generally, and as for deliverymen I dont remember any time that I received my delivery very late. But anyway I am just an individual and dont make up the majority but my experience matters to me when it comes to what I prefer.

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BPoole96

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#173 BPoole96
Member since 2008 • 22818 Posts

People should always tip the employees to restaurants they eat from regularly. I manage at a restaurant and the regular customers that well are always given extra care/service. Whether it be a free beer or making sure their food gets made exactly the way they like it. Both people benefit from it so you may as well leave an extra dollar.

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MrGeezer

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#174 MrGeezer
Member since 2002 • 59765 Posts

If my pizza arrived 2 hours later and cold I would refuse to pay and send him back to the restaurant with the pizza telling them to forget it.

testfactor888

Which is the exact same situation, regardless of if a "tip" is included in the price or added on later.

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#175 MrGeezer
Member since 2002 • 59765 Posts

Just that I dont agree with people who find it inhumane/abnormal/ridiculous or what have you to not tip (now I am not sure if they also advocate tipping no matter the quality of the service).

Teenaged

Of course you shouldn't tip (or you should tip poorly) if the service sucks. The tip IS payment for service. If you don't get good service, then you shouldn't pay for good service.

At the same time though, if you DO get good service, then you should pay for it. Someone who gets good service and then refuses to tip just because they are cheap, is abusing the system and ruining it for everyone else. If enough people can't be counted on to voluntarily tip what they think is fair, then the establishment will start FORCING people to pay up by simply raising their prices.

And yes, I realize that that doesn't apply in all countries.

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testfactor888

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#176 testfactor888
Member since 2010 • 7157 Posts

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]Just that I dont agree with people who find it inhumane/abnormal/ridiculous or what have you to not tip (now I am not sure if they also advocate tipping no matter the quality of the service).

MrGeezer

Of course you shouldn't tip (or you should tip poorly) if the service sucks. The tip IS payment for service. If you don't get good service, then you shouldn't pay for good service.

At the same time though, if you DO get good service, then you should pay for it. Someone who gets good service and then refuses to tip just because they are cheap, is abusing the system and ruining it for everyone else. If enough people can't be counted on to voluntarily tip what they think is fair, then the establishment will start FORCING people to pay up by simply raising their prices.

And yes, I realize that that doesn't apply in all countries.

I love abusing the system and saving money. Waiters and delivery drivers be damned
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wstfld

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#177 wstfld
Member since 2008 • 6375 Posts

I tip $2-$4.

Shad0ki11
As a former delivery driver this is fine. Just give the dude something.
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MrGeezer

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#178 MrGeezer
Member since 2002 • 59765 Posts

I love abusing the system and saving money. Waiters and delivery drivers be damned testfactor888

And some people love pooping in urinals. If they want to act like animals then that's no skin off of my back.

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Lord_Daemon

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#179 Lord_Daemon
Member since 2005 • 24535 Posts

Typically I'd give $3 to $5 depending upon the amount ordered of course. I just consider it common courtesy for the service rendered and if I were so particular about needing to save money then I would just buy some frozen pizzas.

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Harisemo

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#180 Harisemo
Member since 2010 • 4133 Posts

about 15 pence in Pakistan butive never tipped in UK asivenever had any food delivered

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metalkitten

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#181 metalkitten
Member since 2004 • 9249 Posts
none...i live in sweden - they dont get tip
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lil_jon86

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#182 lil_jon86
Member since 2006 • 939 Posts

In soviet russia the pizza delivery guy tips you

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gamerfan85

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#183 gamerfan85
Member since 2009 • 652 Posts

18 percent always unless they piss me off. I've tipped as low as nothing before (even on a big meal).

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Hexagon_777

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#184 Hexagon_777
Member since 2007 • 20348 Posts

[QUOTE="jeremiah06"][QUOTE="Dark__Link"] Excuse me for being a decent person. I really hope you don't live in the US with a garbage attitude like that.Dark__Link
Get over yourself buddy! I never tip, I never will tip, and I'd laugh in the face of anyone looking at me expecting a tip. If they give me a dirty look... I'll flip a penny in their face...

Get over myself? It's not about me. It's about being just a tad bit generous to make sure that people who make less than minimum wage can get by. If no one tipped, then restaurants would just charge more for their food, and then you'd be forced to throw in extra. So you're just a mooch who depends on other people's generosity in order to be cheap and degrading to the people who bring you your food.

So either the pizza place forces you to pay more, or we're forced by people like you to pay more or otherwise be accused of despicable morals. I don't see what the issue is if either way leads to the same result.

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CBR600-RR

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#185 CBR600-RR
Member since 2008 • 9695 Posts

I don't even think the delivery men expect tips here in the UK.

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Dawq902

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#186 Dawq902
Member since 2007 • 6796 Posts

I just round up to the next 5 or 0

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cyborg9

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#187 cyborg9
Member since 2004 • 583 Posts

no offense but i dont tip for nothing unless its a haircut and thats all

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daleerin24

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#188 daleerin24
Member since 2005 • 911 Posts

I tip at least 20%, just a rule, do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

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Hexagon_777

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#189 Hexagon_777
Member since 2007 • 20348 Posts

[QUOTE="Dark__Link"][QUOTE="jeremiah06"] Get over yourself buddy! I never tip, I never will tip, and I'd laugh in the face of anyone looking at me expecting a tip. If they give me a dirty look... I'll flip a penny in their face...Teenaged
Get over myself? It's not about me. It's about being just a tad bit generous to make sure that people who make less than minimum wage can get by. If no one tipped, then restaurants would just charge more for their food, and then you'd be forced to throw in extra. So you're just a mooch who depends on other people's generosity in order to be cheap and degrading to the people who bring you your food.

WTH?

You effectively concede that the problem starts from the employers who dont pay a respectable wage and then you call the customers who dont compensate for that, mooches?

An amusing matter, is it not?

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Dark__Link

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#190 Dark__Link
Member since 2003 • 32653 Posts

[QUOTE="Dark__Link"][QUOTE="jeremiah06"] Get over yourself buddy! I never tip, I never will tip, and I'd laugh in the face of anyone looking at me expecting a tip. If they give me a dirty look... I'll flip a penny in their face...Hexagon_777

Get over myself? It's not about me. It's about being just a tad bit generous to make sure that people who make less than minimum wage can get by. If no one tipped, then restaurants would just charge more for their food, and then you'd be forced to throw in extra. So you're just a mooch who depends on other people's generosity in order to be cheap and degrading to the people who bring you your food.

So either the pizza place forces you to pay more, or we're forced by people like you to pay more or otherwise be accused of despicable morals. I don't see what the issue is if either way leads to the same result.

It DOESN'T lead to the same result. I'm only accusing you of having "despicable morals" because you refuse to tip when the service is good. That's the key distinction. You can either be forced to pay higher prices, or you can use discretion to determine who deserves a tip and how much. Even if you tip people, that doesn't mean you always tip people. If the service is bad, then **** 'em, no tip. So you can either pay higher prices regardless of the quality of the service, or you can choose to tip based on that quality. The two scenarios are not the same.
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Hexagon_777

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#191 Hexagon_777
Member since 2007 • 20348 Posts

[QUOTE="Hexagon_777"][QUOTE="Dark__Link"] Get over myself? It's not about me. It's about being just a tad bit generous to make sure that people who make less than minimum wage can get by. If no one tipped, then restaurants would just charge more for their food, and then you'd be forced to throw in extra. So you're just a mooch who depends on other people's generosity in order to be cheap and degrading to the people who bring you your food.Dark__Link
So either the pizza place forces you to pay more, or we're forced by people like you to pay more or otherwise be accused of despicable morals. I don't see what the issue is if either way leads to the same result.

It DOESN'T lead to the same result. I'm only accusing you of having "despicable morals" because you refuse to tip when the service is good. That's the key distinction. You can either be forced to pay higher prices, or you can use discretion to determine who deserves a tip and how much. Even if you tip people, that doesn't mean you always tip people. If the service is bad, then **** 'em, no tip. So you can either pay higher prices regardless of the quality of the service, or you can choose to tip based on that quality. The two scenarios are not the same.

Pizza deliverymen bring pizza...to my door. The whole ordeal takes 20 seconds. I don't deem that enough time to give somebody a certain amount of money.

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Dark__Link

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#192 Dark__Link
Member since 2003 • 32653 Posts

[QUOTE="Dark__Link"][QUOTE="Hexagon_777"]So either the pizza place forces you to pay more, or we're forced by people like you to pay more or otherwise be accused of despicable morals. I don't see what the issue is if either way leads to the same result.Hexagon_777

It DOESN'T lead to the same result. I'm only accusing you of having "despicable morals" because you refuse to tip when the service is good. That's the key distinction. You can either be forced to pay higher prices, or you can use discretion to determine who deserves a tip and how much. Even if you tip people, that doesn't mean you always tip people. If the service is bad, then **** 'em, no tip. So you can either pay higher prices regardless of the quality of the service, or you can choose to tip based on that quality. The two scenarios are not the same.

Pizza deliverymen bring pizza...to my door. The whole ordeal takes 20 seconds. I don't deem that enough time to give somebody a certain amount of money.

....The pizza place is only 20 seconds from your house?
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testfactor888

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#193 testfactor888
Member since 2010 • 7157 Posts
[QUOTE="Hexagon_777"]

[QUOTE="Dark__Link"] It DOESN'T lead to the same result. I'm only accusing you of having "despicable morals" because you refuse to tip when the service is good. That's the key distinction. You can either be forced to pay higher prices, or you can use discretion to determine who deserves a tip and how much. Even if you tip people, that doesn't mean you always tip people. If the service is bad, then **** 'em, no tip. So you can either pay higher prices regardless of the quality of the service, or you can choose to tip based on that quality. The two scenarios are not the same.Dark__Link

Pizza deliverymen bring pizza...to my door. The whole ordeal takes 20 seconds. I don't deem that enough time to give somebody a certain amount of money.

....The pizza place is only 20 seconds from your house?

If they are not getting paid enough to cover gas and wear and tear on the vehicle they are using than they should just be looking for a new job.
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#194 Dark__Link
Member since 2003 • 32653 Posts

[QUOTE="Dark__Link"][QUOTE="Hexagon_777"]Pizza deliverymen bring pizza...to my door. The whole ordeal takes 20 seconds. I don't deem that enough time to give somebody a certain amount of money.

testfactor888

....The pizza place is only 20 seconds from your house?

If they are not getting paid enough to cover gas and wear and tear on the vehicle they are using than they should just be looking for a new job.

Really? You should let them know, they probably had no idea.

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testfactor888

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#195 testfactor888
Member since 2010 • 7157 Posts

[QUOTE="testfactor888"][QUOTE="Dark__Link"] ....The pizza place is only 20 seconds from your house?Dark__Link

If they are not getting paid enough to cover gas and wear and tear on the vehicle they are using than they should just be looking for a new job.

Really? You should let them know, they probably had no idea.

You can spread the word about it. You apparently care about them alot more than I do
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#196 narlymech
Member since 2009 • 2132 Posts

2 to 5 bucks. I used to deliver pizza and they deserve it, especially for car maintanence.

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#197 Dark__Link
Member since 2003 • 32653 Posts
[QUOTE="Dark__Link"]

[QUOTE="testfactor888"] If they are not getting paid enough to cover gas and wear and tear on the vehicle they are using than they should just be looking for a new job.testfactor888

Really? You should let them know, they probably had no idea.

You can spread the word about it. You apparently care about them alot more than I do

No, no. You're the one who can't spare a tip. You should at least give them something. Career advice is perfect, with a nice pat on the shoulder to encourage them.
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#198 yagr_zero
Member since 2006 • 27850 Posts
I try to tip about 20% of the price.
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#199 fishing666
Member since 2004 • 2113 Posts
tipping is outrageous...i find myself tipping $1-2 in fear that my pizza will be assaulted. this mentality of not tipping equaling to poor service has got to change. tipping is not mandatory and is given based on quality of service. i hope everyone remembers this. Delivering pizza is good money when you get tipped like 1-4$/trip I generally avoid deliveries and tipping in general. List of services that requires tipping: Cable guy Telephone guy Delivery guy Cashier guy Gas guy Waiter guy Barber guy Tax guy Hotel guy Taxi guy Accountant guy Bus guy and the list goes on and on I heard somewhere that the service industry is worth half the economy or something along those lines
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#200 testfactor888
Member since 2010 • 7157 Posts

[QUOTE="testfactor888"][QUOTE="Dark__Link"] Really? You should let them know, they probably had no idea.

Dark__Link

You can spread the word about it. You apparently care about them alot more than I do

No, no. You're the one who can't spare a tip. You should at least give them something. Career advice is perfect, with a nice pat on the shoulder to encourage them.

I don't want to give them anything at all which is the point in not tipping. I should not have to do anything and therefore I don't :)