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[QUOTE="parkurtommo"]
[QUOTE="Kcube"]
Yeah it looks cool this way >_>
Fundai
yeah pretty wierd
yeah its just screwed up, wonder what glicthspot did this time.
Reported. :oops:[QUOTE="foxhound_fox"]A lot of crap on that list... but I am definitely in favour of the first couple points concerning consent and saying a woman "asks" to be raped. 12 seasons of Law & Order SVU have shown me that rape is not a black and white issue, and far too little is done to bring justice for the victims and keep the perpetrators in prison (a statute of limitations on rape is disgusting). It has also changed my stance towards abortion, in that no woman should feel obligated to keep a product of rape, nor should she not consider the child's future and what would be in its best interests. It, like rape, is an exceptional grey area. And no means NO.jeremiah06
If I walk in the middle of a busy street without looking both ways is it not my fault that I got hit by a car? If I know a gang lives on street x and they kill people who wear blue is it not in my best intrest to either avoid that street or not wear blue? Some things CAN be avoided... Thats not saying that every single woman raped are at fault... However a woman going out alone dressed in skimpy outfit getting smashed to the point where she blacks out in a bar full of men is an idiot... She does NOT deserve to get raped but situations like that are easily avoidable...
I am disgusted you are comparing things you are to a women being raped. How is a women EVER at fault for being raped? How about we blame the people commiting the crimes? Sure we know certain things go on in certain areas but does that mean we live our lives in fear? So if a women gets drunk passes out with a dude in the house and he takes advantage of that she's stupid and it's half her fault? COME ON!As for the layout of this thread, somebody didn't format their HTML properly and broke the thread :PEJ902I thought GameSpot doesn't let you post if the HTML isn't valid. I have had my fair share of such warnings in the past. :(
[QUOTE="jeremiah06"]
[QUOTE="foxhound_fox"]A lot of crap on that list... but I am definitely in favour of the first couple points concerning consent and saying a woman "asks" to be raped. 12 seasons of Law & Order SVU have shown me that rape is not a black and white issue, and far too little is done to bring justice for the victims and keep the perpetrators in prison (a statute of limitations on rape is disgusting). It has also changed my stance towards abortion, in that no woman should feel obligated to keep a product of rape, nor should she not consider the child's future and what would be in its best interests. It, like rape, is an exceptional grey area. And no means NO.funkadelichika
If I walk in the middle of a busy street without looking both ways is it not my fault that I got hit by a car? If I know a gang lives on street x and they kill people who wear blue is it not in my best intrest to either avoid that street or not wear blue? Some things CAN be avoided... Thats not saying that every single woman raped are at fault... However a woman going out alone dressed in skimpy outfit getting smashed to the point where she blacks out in a bar full of men is an idiot... She does NOT deserve to get raped but situations like that are easily avoidable...
I am disgusted you are comparing things you are to a women being raped. How is a women EVER at fault for being raped? How about we blame the people commiting the crimes? Sure we know certain things go on in certain areas but does that mean we live our lives in fear? So if a women gets drunk passes out with a dude in the house and he takes advantage of that she's stupid and it's half her fault? COME ON!I think what he means to say is that A woman isn't at fult for being raped. She is a victim. However the risk gets higher unless she takes precautions. Afterall it's better to be safe then sorry. Such as stay with friends, If you drink heavily then agree beforehand that a friend keeps their eye on you and stuff like that.What if a man gets castrated, does he still support rape?
Ilovegames1992
No one has an answer for this?
Her statements remind me strongly of the late Andrea Dworkin's. It's unfortunate that some feminists still feel the need to demonize men, apparently without realizing that they are in fact reinforcing the negative attitudes they claim to hate so much. You really want to fight the patriarchy? Painting with a broad brush and immediately dismissing fellow human beings who could be your allies is not the way to go about it.
Her statements remind me strongly of the late Andrea Dworkin's. It's unfortunate that some feminists still feel the need to demonize men, apparently without realizing that they are in fact reinforcing the negative attitudes they claim to hate so much. You really want to fight the patriarchy? Painting with a broad brush and immediately dismissing fellow human beings who could be your allies is not the way to go about it.
drochnathair
You've just raped 16 Mexican women with that statement.
Rape is often blown out of proportion. I know that sounds bad, but its true. Two people get drunk, end up sleeping together, guess what? Dude gets accused if rape when theyre both clearly at fault. Girl flirts with guy, girls kisses guy, girl brings guy back to her place for a drink, guy makes his move (as he should, he is obviously getting led on), guess what? Guy gets accused of attempted rape.
As for the whole "rape is worse than murder" attitude a lot of people have, take the ***** off the pedastal for a few minutes. Rape is no where near as bad as murder. Sure, its a little icky, but for all practical purposes the crime of rape is less harmful than being beaten up.
As for that amusing list, well, I guess I support rape. Rape for President!!!
Rape is often blown out of proportion. I know that sounds bad, but its true. Two people get drunk, end up sleeping together, guess what? Dude gets accused if rape when theyre both clearly at fault. Girl flirts with guy, girls kisses guy, girl brings guy back to her place for a drink, guy makes his move (as he should, he is obviously getting led on), guess what? Guy gets accused of attempted rape.
As for the whole "rape is worse than murder" attitude a lot of people have, take the ***** off the pedastal for a few minutes. Rape is no where near as bad as murder. Sure, its a little icky, but for all practical purposes the crime of rape is less harmful than being beaten up.
As for that amusing list, well, I guess I support rape. Rape for President!!!
mrbojangles25
:o
Rape is often blown out of proportion. I know that sounds bad, but its true. Two people get drunk, end up sleeping together, guess what? Dude gets accused if rape when theyre both clearly at fault. Girl flirts with guy, girls kisses guy, girl brings guy back to her place for a drink, guy makes his move (as he should, he is obviously getting led on), guess what? Guy gets accused of attempted rape.
As for the whole "rape is worse than murder" attitude a lot of people have, take the ***** off the pedastal for a few minutes. Rape is no where near as bad as murder. Sure, its a little icky, but for all practical purposes the crime of rape is less harmful than being beaten up.
As for that amusing list, well, I guess I support rape. Rape for President!!!
mrbojangles25
Wow. Holy crap man. I'm not gonna judge you, but you should realize that rape is far more psychologically destructive than being beaten up. The actual physical violence of the rape is not the most harmful element.
The logic in that post is very fuzzy. I'd like to see this position defended by a feminist who actually knows the meaning of logical cogency.
Choga
The fact you actually saw a bit of logic under that hypocritical, steaming pile of dog crap of an article is quite commendable.
But according to her points, everybody can be classified as a rape supporter, both men and women.
...wait...
We have finally achieved total gender equality!
But according to her points, everybody can be classified as a rape supporter, both men and women.
...wait...
We have finally achieved total gender equality!
xerxes5678
Well no because it does only say MEN are rape supporters if...
Hence the crazy retard level of the article.
the comments are hilarious; I love the unconditional supportive "white knights" (if theyre male) and the women, pretty funny. The arguments are even better, though.
Oh and this was funny. From the author:
I said in a separate post that nearly 100% of men either are rapists, would be, would assist a rapist, or are rape supporters, and most commenters who have critiqued this post have agreed that, yes, nearly all (or "all") men support rape according to this list.
Wow. Just wow.
The fact that she argues that there is no drive to reproduce outside of societal boundaries tells me everything I need to know about her knowledge of biology and basic logic to know that it would be pointless for me to say anything.
GabuEx
Quoted for the absolute truth.
[QUOTE="mrbojangles25"]
Rape is often blown out of proportion. I know that sounds bad, but its true. Two people get drunk, end up sleeping together, guess what? Dude gets accused if rape when theyre both clearly at fault. Girl flirts with guy, girls kisses guy, girl brings guy back to her place for a drink, guy makes his move (as he should, he is obviously getting led on), guess what? Guy gets accused of attempted rape.
As for the whole "rape is worse than murder" attitude a lot of people have, take the ***** off the pedastal for a few minutes. Rape is no where near as bad as murder. Sure, its a little icky, but for all practical purposes the crime of rape is less harmful than being beaten up.
As for that amusing list, well, I guess I support rape. Rape for President!!!
drochnathair
Wow. Holy crap man. I'm not gonna judge you, but you should realize that rape is far more psychologically destructive than being beaten up. The actual physical violence of the rape is not the most harmful element.
I only say that because I know a few woman that were raped (we went to college together) and they said it is not as bad as people make it out to be. It shatters their trust in humanity as a whole for a long time, and they feel outcast, but they ultimately said the same thing: a horrible experience they dont remember that well, that they were able to get over.
I imagine living through a bad car crash, getting jumped and beaten for wearing a Giant's shirt, and seeing your best friend die in front of you are equally as traumatizing
But, those were isolated incidents, I am sure it is different for everyone so I take back what I said.
I thought it was so hilarious that I had to go down the list and respond to each of her assumptions (it's long and I covered multiple subjects with a single answer if appropiate):
He has ever sexually engaged with any woman while she was underage, drunk, high, physically restrained, unconscious, or subjected to psychological, physical, economic, or emotional coercion.
For the most part, I agree with this one. However, there are some things about this one I disagree with. If the girl is underage but she lied about her age and did a good job convincing him she was at least 18 I don't think he supports rape (even though nine times out of ten he's still going to jail for statutory rape depending on the state). As for being drunk, that depends. If only the girl is drunk and she is pursed by a sober male he's no better than somebody who puts ruffies in a woman's glass when she isn't looking. On the other hand, if both of them get wasted, or if she gets wasted and literally attacks the guy to the point he loses the power to resist he shouldn't be blamed. After all, if the table was turned and a drunk guy is all over a sober woman he's at risk of going to jail. Also, if said girl got wasted, got in a car, and killed a pedestrian she can't say "I was drunk, so it's not my fault" to get out of manslaughter charges.
He defends the current legal definition of rape and/or opposes making consent a defense.
This varies based on the situation. There isn't really anything you can change about it. Consent being a defense depends on the situation. If you get started and sometime during the act she changes his mind and says stop then yes, you have to stop and if you don't you are committing rape. But it should work both ways, it shouldn't be exculsive to one sex while the other gets off scot-free.
He has accused a rape victim of having "buyer's remorse" or wanting to get money from the man.
Obviously this varies based on the situation. I've seen on more than one occasion where this really happened. I've seen situations where a woman accused somebody of rape because the man didn't want to put out or to threatened to accuse somebody of rape to get their way out of punishment. Yes, there are legitimate situations.
He has blamed a woman for "putting herself in a situation" where she "could be" attacked.
There is no excuse for raping a person. But at the same time, you need to use common sense. If you walk through a bad neighborhood with a hundred dollar bill hanging out of your pocket you're probably going to be attacked. Doesn't make it right but you're putting yourself in the situation where you are making yourself a target. Same thing with leaving keys in the ignition of a luxury car and walking away, stealing is wrong but you just made it easier for the crook.
He has procured a prostitute.
He characterizes prostitution as a "legitimate" "job" "choice" or defends men who purchase prostitutes.
Getting a prostitute may not be the best idea in the world, but it's better than committing rape. As for wanting it legalized, that's a whole different story I'm going to leave alone.
He has ever revealed he conceives of sex as fundamentally transactional.
I've met women who feel the same way. Doesn't mean they want to rape people.
He has gone to a strip club.
You might as well say over half of men support rape with that one. I've been to a few before I got married.
He is anti-abortion.
Seems like she's forgetting about men who have religious objections to it. I really fail to see how being against abortion means you support rape. And what about women who are anti-abortion, last time I checked Sarah Palin is anti-abortion and she was on the Vice Presidental ticket. So, does that mean a possible Vice President supported rape? Or does it only apply to men?
He is pro-"choice" because he believes abortion access will make women more sexually available.
I don't even know where to go with that one. Some women are just going to be slutty no matter what, and access to abortions isn't going to change that especially with how easy it is to get birth control or demand the use of condoms.
He frames discussions of pornography in terms of "freedom of speech."
Guess freedom of speech shouldn't apply if it offends some women. If you don't care that it may offend some women you must be a rapist.
He watches pornography in which women are depicted.
He watches any pornography in which sexual acts are depicted as a struggle for power or domination, regardless of whether women are present.
So what she's really saying is that if you look at porn, either you look at gay porn or you support rape. But even if you do look exclusively at gay porn you support rape if there is any violence in there. I would be lying if I said I never looked at porn. But it disgusts me to even watch a fictional rape on TV and I would just fast forward through it. But I must support rape because I looked at straight porn before and not gay porn.
He characterizes the self-sexualizing behavior of some women, such as wearing make-up or high heels, as evidence of women's desire to "get" a man.
It is what it is. You should visit some of the clubs outside of military bases, it's ridiculous how many girls there dress slutty just to bag themselves a service member for the benefits. Obviously not all women are like this.
He tells or laughs at jokes involving women being attacked, sexually "hoodwinked," or sexually harassed.
Immature, yes. Supportive of rape, no.
He expresses enjoyment of movies/musicals/TV shows/plays in which women are sexually demeaned or presented as sexual objects.
Some things are funny and some things cross the line. Which is which is up to personal preference. But that doesn't men somebody supports rape. People who play GTA usually don't support shooting police officers for real.
He mocks women who complain about sexual attacks, sexual harassment, street cat-calls, media depictions of women, or other forms of sexual objectification.
I can agree with that one for the most part. Shouldn't make fun of a legitimate victim.
He supports sexual "liberation" and claims women would have more sex with (more) men if society did not "inhibit" them.
That's not a support of rape, that's just a support of taking advantage of slutty women for personal gain.
He states or implies that women who do not want to have sex with men are "inhibited," "prudes," "stuck-up," "man-haters," or psychologically ill.
That's probably more of ignorance than support of rape.
He argues that certain male behaviors towards women are "cultural" and therefore not legitimate subjects of feminist attention.
Wrong is wrong, it doesn't matter if it was acceptable in the past. Domestic violence used to be considered normal, even The Honeymooners joked about it. Didn't make it right. But its still doesn't mean you support rape.
He ever subordinates the interests of women in a given population to the interests of the men in that population, or proceeds in discussions as if the interests of the women are the same as the interests of the men.
He promotes religious or philosophical views in which a woman's physical/psychological/emotional/sexual well-being is subordinated to a man's.
He describes female anatomy in terms of penetration, or uses terms referencing the supposed "emptiness" of female anatomy when describing women.
He defends the physical abuse of women on the grounds of "consent."
He defends the sexualization or sexual abuse of minor females on the grounds of "consent" or "willingness."
He promotes the idea that women as a c 1ass are happier or more fulfilled if they have children, or that they "should" have children.
He argues that people (or just "men") have sexual "needs."
Arrogance or ignorance, but not support of rape.
He discusses the "types" of women he finds sexually appealing and/or attempts to demean women by telling them he does not find them sexually appealing.
Not everybody likes the same type of partner. Some people like big women, some like small women, etc. Doesn't men you should insult somebody to their face, though.
He sexually objectifies lesbians or lesbian sexual activity.
Most men can't help what gives them a woody. Doesn't mean they support rape. I can name a lot of guys who love the idea of that particular thing but would be quick to beat up anybody who rapes or even hits a woman.
He defends these actions by saying that some women also engage in them.
The ultimate cop-out to try and make it look like only men can be the bad guys.
Basically, she hates men and doesn't want to fully admit it. Wouldn't surprise me if she's for just rounding up all men and locking them up, only using them as sperm donors and for manual labor just to keep the human race going while women are in charge.
I don't agree with her on a lot of the stuff but I can see how she would get tired of men I do and I am one!EmpirefrtwThis, for some random reason, reminds me of all the women on facebook posting statuses of how they hate men and that men are ***-**** because one man said the wrong thing and they perceive the whole gender that way.
do you have links to that? I know statistically men get raped more than most people make out it to be. But black are the most probable to get raped? that doesn't sound right at all.Why do women get the moral high ground on Rape?
Statistically, the highest probable victim of rape is a black male.
Blue-Sky
[QUOTE="Blue-Sky"]do you have links to that? I know statistically men get raped more than most people make out it to be. But black are the most probable to get raped? that doesn't sound right at all.Maybe they are victims because they are the most likely to be accused of rape?Why do women get the moral high ground on Rape?
Statistically, the highest probable victim of rape is a black male.
dkdk999
do you have links to that? I know statistically men get raped more than most people make out it to be. But black are the most probable to get raped? that doesn't sound right at all.Maybe they are victims because they are the most likely to be accused of rape? And convicted[QUOTE="dkdk999"][QUOTE="Blue-Sky"]
Why do women get the moral high ground on Rape?
Statistically, the highest probable victim of rape is a black male.
DigitalExile
Wait, so that means if you like movies where part of the point of the movie is that the women are attractive (not going to make a list as it's a common tool to get people to watch it) that means that I support rape?
This list is awful. Theres some okay stuff but some of it really makes no sense.
My wrap-up of this post(in brackets are my thoughts on each point, in short):
A man is a rape-supporter if…
(Legit) He has ever sexually engaged with any woman while she was underage, drunk, high, physically restrained, unconscious, or subjected to psychological, physical, economic, or emotional coercion.
(Legit) He defends the current legal definition of rape and/or opposes making consent a defense.
(Legit) He has accused a rape victim of having "buyer's remorse" or wanting to get money from the man.
(Legit) He has blamed a woman for "putting herself in a situation" where she "could be" attacked.
(Not legit, a sex negative perspective) He has procured a prostitute.
(Not legit, a sex negative perspective) He characterizes prostitution as a "legitimate" "job" "choice" or defends men who purchase prostitutes.
(Not Legit, as almost all modern relationships and acts of sex are transactional. Too vague.) He has ever revealed he conceives of sex as fundamentally transactional.
(Not legit, nothing to do with rape)He has gone to a strip club.
(Not entirely legit, fringe relation) He is anti-abortion.
(Legit if it is inferred there's a "to him" at the end. Otherwise, not legit) He is pro-"choice" because he believes abortion access will make women more sexually available.
(Not Legit, a porn negative perspective) He frames discussions of pornography in terms of "freedom of speech."
(Not legit, a porn negative perspective) He watches pornography in which women are depicted.
(Not legit, a porn negative perspective) He watches any pornography in which sexual acts are depicted as a struggle for power or domination, regardless of whether women are present.
(Not legit, but it is heretosexist) He characterizes the self-sexualizing behavior of some women, such as wearing make-up or high heels, as evidence of women's desire to "get" a man.
(Legit) He tells or laughs at jokes involving women being attacked, sexually "hoodwinked," or sexually harassed.
(Legit, if there's enjoyment derived explicitly from such content) He expresses enjoyment of movies/musicals/TV shows/plays in which women are sexually demeaned or presented as sexual objects
(Legit) He mocks women who complain about sexual attacks, sexual harassment, street cat-calls, media depictions of women, or other forms of sexual objectification.
(Not legit, is a sex-negative statement) He supports sexual "liberation" and claims women would have more sex with (more) men if society did not "inhibit" them.
(Legit) He states or implies that women who do not want to have sex with men are "inhibited," "prudes," "stuck-up," "man-haters," or psychologically ill.
(Legit, if these "certain behaviours" lead to harassing, demeaning and exploitation of women and their bodies) He argues that certain male behaviors towards women are "cultural" and therefore not legitimate subjects of feminist attention.
(Not related, but definitely not a fair thing to do. This is just sexism) He ever subordinates the interests of women in a given population to the interests of the men in that population, or proceeds in discussions as if the interests of the women are the same as the interests of the men.
(Related, but not entirely legit. Only if he forces submission of the woman to certain acts would this be legit. Too vague )He promotes religious or philosophical views in which a woman's physical/psychological/emotional/sexual well-being is subordinated to a man's.
(Legit) He describes female anatomy in terms of penetration, or uses terms referencing the supposed "emptiness" of female anatomy when describing women.
(Legit) He defends the physical abuse of women on the grounds of "consent."
(Legit) He defends the sexualization or sexual abuse of minor females on the grounds of "consent" or "willingness."
(Not related, but certainly heterosexist) He promotes the idea that women as a c|ass are happier or more fulfilled if they have children, or that they "should" have children.
(Related, but not entirely legit. Only if there is forced action wih the excuse of men having such "needs" would it be legit) He argues that people (or just "men") have sexual "needs."
(Semi-related in terms of obviously attributing a single value to a woman's being, using her appearance as the only source. However, fringe. Objectification does not actualize rape, even if it can promote it) He discusses the "types" of women he finds sexually appealing and/or attempts to demean women by telling them he does not find them sexually appealing.
(See above, definitely heterosexist) He sexually objectifies lesbians or lesbian sexual activity.
(Not entirely legit, rape is an assault both sexes are affected by) He defends these actions by saying that some women also engage in them.
In summary, there are definitely some very accurate ones, but the author's porn/sex negative views are definitely colouring the argument.
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