Do You Think Good And Bad People Have Different Eternal Destinies?

And if that's the case, wouldn't God have sinned if he hadn't created humans?Theokhoth

This makes no sense. Not creating a human is not a sin.

Also due to the fact that the Christian god decides upon what is and is not a sin, not his inferior creations.

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"]

And if that's the case, wouldn't God have sinned if he hadn't created humans?-Jiggles-

This makes no sense. Not creating a human is not a sin.

Also due to the fact that the Christian god decides upon what is and is not a sin, not his inferior creations.

I'm not certain as to what decides sins. . . .if God decided sins, then morality would be solipsist.

[QUOTE="-Jiggles-"][QUOTE="Theokhoth"]

And if that's the case, wouldn't God have sinned if he hadn't created humans?Theokhoth

This makes no sense. Not creating a human is not a sin.

Also due to the fact that the Christian god decides upon what is and is not a sin, not his inferior creations.

I'm not certain as to what decides sins. . . .if God decided sins, then morality would be solipsist.

Sin is an attribute or behavior God explicitly does not have.

[QUOTE="-Jiggles-"][QUOTE="Theokhoth"]

And if that's the case, wouldn't God have sinned if he hadn't created humans?Theokhoth

This makes no sense. Not creating a human is not a sin.

Also due to the fact that the Christian god decides upon what is and is not a sin, not his inferior creations.

I'm not certain as to what decides sins. . . .if God decided sins, then morality would be solipsist.

Seeing as the Christian god was said to have created every single itty-bitty thing in the entire universe, I would imagine that there would be some aspects of life that he would deem sinful himself due to the corruption that Satan had caused.

It only seems natural that a god would create rules for everybody to follow in a universe that he created, just like how a king may hand out rules that everybody must follow in a kingdom that he erected. That's what I think, anyways.

Seeing as the Christian god was said to have created every single itty-bitty thing in the entire universe, I would imagine that there would be some aspects of life that he would deem sinful himself due to the corruption that Satan had caused.

It only seems natural that a god would create rules for everybody to follow in a universe that he created, just like how a king may hand out rules that everybody must follow in a kingdom that he erected. That's what I think, anyways.

-Jiggles-

That would make sense, but the problems arise when the King decides to change things around when it gets inconvenient. And when the rules of life are governed by the conscious decisions of a single entity, who's to say what morality even is, besides that entity, who can change it around at will without even telling anybody? It makes morality meaningless in the long run.

Battlefront's answer makes much more sense, but it begs some questions of its own. . .

[QUOTE="blackregiment"][QUOTE="felixlynch777"]

Oh the beloved TCWU envagelisation missions.:roll:

Please Crushmaster (who is a 13 year old boy, don't try and debate him) stop these stupid conversion threads. Nobody likes them (apart from your pals down at the TCWU) so stop them.

Amen to that.

KOTORkicker

If threads that discuss religious beliefs are upsetting to you then why do you visit them and post in them? No one is forcing you to read or post in them. Why not use your God given free will to just refrain from visiting religious threads? You are also free to start threads in the OT forums that discuss atheism or what ever you want. You might consider doing that. I think that you would find that most Christians would support your right to do that and would not suggest that you cease and desist from sharing and discussing your beliefs. Crushmaster's age is irrelevant to his right to express his beliefs and opinions.

@ Felixlynch:

Come on, lets go start a union dedicated to spamming OT daily with pointless threads. After all, these people seem to have no problem with it. I think that the TCWU should be banned from posting in OT. I think they should evangelise within the confines of their own board. So, what do you say to that, blackregiment? You are the only union on GS intent on forcing your beliefs upon others. No-one else is. Anyone else can do it, they just choose to respect people's opinions instead.

Think about that. Hell, there are alot of UCBs that have a good population of users who don't post in OT atall. Post there. People here, other than members of TCWU do not gain any enjoyment from these spammings.

First off, these threads aren't pointless. Secondly, honestly why should the CWU be banned? I think that is a very dumb proposal. Third, why would we evangelize those who already believe? It's kind of... impossible :|. Fourth, we are not forcing our beliefs. Stating what you believe is not forcing your views on others. Fifth, so you've talked to every member outside of the CWU and they all stated they don't like these threads? Riiight. :roll:

0/5 buddy. Good work.

[QUOTE="-Jiggles-"]

Seeing as the Christian god was said to have created every single itty-bitty thing in the entire universe, I would imagine that there would be some aspects of life that he would deem sinful himself due to the corruption that Satan had caused.

It only seems natural that a god would create rules for everybody to follow in a universe that he created, just like how a king may hand out rules that everybody must follow in a kingdom that he erected. That's what I think, anyways.

Theokhoth

That would make sense, but the problems arise when the King decides to change things around when it gets inconvenient. And when the rules of life are governed by the conscious decisions of a single entity, who's to say what morality even is, besides that entity, who can change it around at will without even telling anybody? It makes morality meaningless in the long run.

Battlefront's answer makes much more sense, but it begs some questions of its own. . .

Think of it like this. Evil is merely the lack of good. Since God is good in every way, anything that is not of Him is sin.

[QUOTE="-Jiggles-"]

Seeing as the Christian god was said to have created every single itty-bitty thing in the entire universe, I would imagine that there would be some aspects of life that he would deem sinful himself due to the corruption that Satan had caused.

It only seems natural that a god would create rules for everybody to follow in a universe that he created, just like how a king may hand out rules that everybody must follow in a kingdom that he erected. That's what I think, anyways.

Theokhoth

That would make sense, but the problems arise when the King decides to change things around when it gets inconvenient. And when the rules of life are governed by the conscious decisions of a single entity, who's to say what morality even is, besides that entity, who can change it around at will without even telling anybody? It makes morality meaningless in the long run.

Battlefront's answer makes much more sense, but it begs some questions of its own. . .

I would imagine that your god wouldn't find any need to change the rules for humanity since he knows everything that'll ever happen within the future. Besides, the Christian god probably wouldn't make said rules in the first place if he knew that sometime, down the line, he would eventually change them in one way or another.

I agree that Battlefront has a more thorough and more sophisticated answer, but I also agree with you that said answer brings up some bigger controversies than my own has as well.

I would imagine that your god wouldn't find any need to change the rules for humanity since he knows everything that'll ever happen within the future. Besides, the Christian god probably wouldn't make said rules in the first place if he knew that sometime, down the line, he would eventually change them in one way or another.

I agree that Battlefront has a more thorough and more sophisticated answer, but I also agree with you that said answer brings up some bigger controversies than my own has as well.

-Jiggles-

Ah, but if humanity changes, why not the rules, which exist for humanity in the first place? After all, you don't see Christians stoning homosexuals in the street.

Lord, how I love Molinism.

[QUOTE="-Jiggles-"]

I would imagine that your god wouldn't find any need to change the rules for humanity since he knows everything that'll ever happen within the future. Besides, the Christian god probably wouldn't make said rules in the first place if he knew that sometime, down the line, he would eventually change them in one way or another.

I agree that Battlefront has a more thorough and more sophisticated answer, but I also agree with you that said answer brings up some bigger controversies than my own has as well.

Theokhoth

Ah, but if humanity changes, why not the rules, which exist for humanity in the first place? After all, you don't see Christians stoning homosexuals in the street.

Lord, how I love Molinism.

I would think putting a person to death for working on Sunday, is something that wouldn't be needed no matter what period of mankinds development.

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"][QUOTE="-Jiggles-"]

I would imagine that your god wouldn't find any need to change the rules for humanity since he knows everything that'll ever happen within the future. Besides, the Christian god probably wouldn't make said rules in the first place if he knew that sometime, down the line, he would eventually change them in one way or another.

I agree that Battlefront has a more thorough and more sophisticated answer, but I also agree with you that said answer brings up some bigger controversies than my own has as well.

sSubZerOo

Ah, but if humanity changes, why not the rules, which exist for humanity in the first place? After all, you don't see Christians stoning homosexuals in the street.

Lord, how I love Molinism.

I would think putting a person to death for working on Sunday, is something that wouldn't be needed no matter what period of mankinds development.

Good thing you've read the Gospels. :roll:

I would think putting a person to death for working on Sunday, is something that wouldn't be needed no matter what period of mankinds development.

sSubZerOo

I would think you think humanity had a happy run in Old Testament times.

[QUOTE="-Jiggles-"]

I would imagine that your god wouldn't find any need to change the rules for humanity since he knows everything that'll ever happen within the future. Besides, the Christian god probably wouldn't make said rules in the first place if he knew that sometime, down the line, he would eventually change them in one way or another.

I agree that Battlefront has a more thorough and more sophisticated answer, but I also agree with you that said answer brings up some bigger controversies than my own has as well.

Theokhoth

Ah, but if humanity changes, why not the rules, which exist for humanity in the first place? After all, you don't see Christians stoning homosexuals in the street.

Lord, how I love Molinism.

Although rules have definiately changed over time, these rules were mainly those that were outside of the Christian belief or those that are considered taboo by most societies, such as murder or incest. I know the point you're trying to get across to me, but I simply don't understand why the Christian god would make a divine rule if he knew that it'll eventually change again over time.

As for Christians stoning homosexuals, that has become both a rise in tolerance and the fact that many of these fundamentalists have actually started reading the Bible they cherish so much. "He who is without sin, cast the first stone" comes to mind in this case, since, according to Christianity, everybody is born a sinner.

Although rules have definiately changed over time, these rules were mainly those that were outside of the Christian belief or those that are considered taboo by most societies, such as murder or incest. I know the point you're trying to get across to me, but I simply don't understand why the Christian god would make a divine rule if he knew that it'll eventually change again over time.

-Jiggles-

Oh, well that's simple: Covenants. Like contracts, God makes one designed for a set period of time that eventually expires and is replaced with a better one. This way, God can allow sinners into His presence while still remaining fair about it by outlining His own demands for His end of the bargain.

Did I already explain this to you? I know I did to somebody the other day. . . .

[QUOTE="-Jiggles-"]

Although rules have definiately changed over time, these rules were mainly those that were outside of the Christian belief or those that are considered taboo by most societies, such as murder or incest. I know the point you're trying to get across to me, but I simply don't understand why the Christian god would make a divine rule if he knew that it'll eventually change again over time.

Theokhoth

Oh, well that's simple: Covenants. Like contracts, God makes one designed for a set period of time that eventually expires and is replaced with a better one. This way, God can allow sinners into His presence while still remaining fair about it by outlining His own demands for His end of the bargain.

Did I already explain this to you? I know I did to somebody the other day. . . .

Ah, I see. Thanks for the input on that, then.

And no, I don't think I was taught this before. You must be refering to somebody else, because it's been a while since I last debated with you.

Regardless of works, Christ is all that saves people from eternal damnation. He is our Lord and Saviour. :)

[QUOTE="Greatgone12"][QUOTE="blackregiment"]

Just because someone does something and attributes it to God does not meant that it is of God. God forbids clearly forbids murder in His revealed Word and therefore your argument is without basis.

blackregiment

There is much more evidence that the Bible is the Word of God than that it isn't.

Regardless of works, Christ is all that saves people from eternal damnation. He is our Lord and Saviour. :)

Lansdowne5

I have a question for any believers who wish to answer: do you consider yourself to be a good person?domatron23

[QUOTE="domatron23"]I have a question for any believers who wish to answer: do you consider yourself to be a good person?Crushmaster

Have you ever told the truth, even once in your life?

[QUOTE="Crushmaster"][QUOTE="domatron23"]I have a question for any believers who wish to answer: do you consider yourself to be a good person?domatron23

Have you ever told the truth, even once in your life?

[QUOTE="domatron23"]

[QUOTE="Crushmaster"][QUOTE="domatron23"]I have a question for any believers who wish to answer: do you consider yourself to be a good person?Crushmaster

Have you ever told the truth, even once in your life?

I see very interesting.

Have you ever returned a lost item to its rightful owner?

[QUOTE="Crushmaster"][QUOTE="domatron23"]

[QUOTE="Crushmaster"][QUOTE="domatron23"]I have a question for any believers who wish to answer: do you consider yourself to be a good person?domatron23

Have you ever told the truth, even once in your life?

I see very interesting.

Have you ever returned a lost item to its rightful owner?

LOL

[QUOTE="Crushmaster"][QUOTE="domatron23"]

[QUOTE="Crushmaster"][QUOTE="domatron23"]I have a question for any believers who wish to answer: do you consider yourself to be a good person?domatron23

Have you ever told the truth, even once in your life?

I see very interesting.

Have you ever returned a lost item to its rightful owner?

[QUOTE="domatron23"][QUOTE="Crushmaster"][QUOTE="domatron23"]

[QUOTE="Crushmaster"][QUOTE="domatron23"]I have a question for any believers who wish to answer: do you consider yourself to be a good person?Crushmaster

Have you ever told the truth, even once in your life?

I see very interesting.

Have you ever returned a lost item to its rightful owner?

Hmmm the plot thickens.

Have you ever thought about a woman in a non-sexual, respectful way?

[QUOTE="domatron23"][QUOTE="Crushmaster"][QUOTE="domatron23"]

[QUOTE="Crushmaster"][QUOTE="domatron23"]I have a question for any believers who wish to answer: do you consider yourself to be a good person?Crushmaster

Have you ever told the truth, even once in your life?

I see very interesting.

Have you ever returned a lost item to its rightful owner?

I think the question was if you returned an item to its rightful owner, not if you had stolen something from someone.

[QUOTE="Crushmaster"][QUOTE="domatron23"][QUOTE="Crushmaster"][QUOTE="domatron23"]

[QUOTE="Crushmaster"][QUOTE="domatron23"]I have a question for any believers who wish to answer: do you consider yourself to be a good person?domatron23

Have you ever told the truth, even once in your life?

I see very interesting.

Have you ever returned a lost item to its rightful owner?

Hmmm the plot thickens.

Have you ever thought about a woman in a non-sexual, respectful way?

[QUOTE="domatron23"][QUOTE="Crushmaster"][QUOTE="domatron23"][QUOTE="Crushmaster"][QUOTE="domatron23"]

[QUOTE="Crushmaster"][QUOTE="domatron23"]I have a question for any believers who wish to answer: do you consider yourself to be a good person?Crushmaster

Have you ever told the truth, even once in your life?

I see very interesting.

Have you ever returned a lost item to its rightful owner?

Hmmm the plot thickens.

Have you ever thought about a woman in a non-sexual, respectful way?

Excellent, very good.

Next question, have you ever praised God and glorified his name?

[QUOTE="Crushmaster"][QUOTE="domatron23"][QUOTE="Crushmaster"][QUOTE="domatron23"][QUOTE="Crushmaster"][QUOTE="domatron23"]

[QUOTE="Crushmaster"][QUOTE="domatron23"]I have a question for any believers who wish to answer: do you consider yourself to be a good person?domatron23

Have you ever told the truth, even once in your life?

I see very interesting.

Have you ever returned a lost item to its rightful owner?

Hmmm the plot thickens.

Have you ever thought about a woman in a non-sexual, respectful way?

Excellent, very good.

Next question, have you ever praised God and glorified his name?

[QUOTE="domatron23"][QUOTE="Crushmaster"][QUOTE="domatron23"][QUOTE="Crushmaster"][QUOTE="domatron23"][QUOTE="Crushmaster"][QUOTE="domatron23"]

[QUOTE="Crushmaster"][QUOTE="domatron23"]I have a question for any believers who wish to answer: do you consider yourself to be a good person?Crushmaster

Have you ever told the truth, even once in your life?

I see very interesting.

Have you ever returned a lost item to its rightful owner?

Hmmm the plot thickens.

Have you ever thought about a woman in a non-sexual, respectful way?

Excellent, very good.

Next question, have you ever praised God and glorified his name?

Fantastic.

Fantastic.You are undoubtedly a good person whose life is enriched by his good works. Based upon Mormon theology what do you think your eternal fate will be? Will you go to the Celestial kingdom, the terrestrial kingdom or the telestial kingdom?domatron23

[QUOTE="domatron23"]

Fantastic.

You are undoubtedly a good person whose life is enriched by his good works. Based upon Mormon theology what do you think your eternal fate will be? Will you go to the Celestial kingdom, the terrestrial kingdom or the telestial kingdom?Crushmaster

The terrestrial kingdom is okay but according to Mormon theology it is not the residing place of Jesus Christ and God the father. Does this not concern you?

The terrestrial kingdom is okay but according to Mormon theology it is not the residing place of Jesus Christ and God the father. Does this not concern you? domatron23

[QUOTE="domatron23"]The terrestrial kingdom is okay but according to Mormon theology it is not the residing place of Jesus Christ and God the father. Does this not concern you? Crushmaster

Do you not wish to reside with God and Jesus Christ?

[QUOTE="Crushmaster"][QUOTE="domatron23"]The terrestrial kingdom is okay but according to Mormon theology it is not the residing place of Jesus Christ and God the father. Does this not concern you? domatron23

Do you not wish to reside with God and Jesus Christ?

Based if the old testament is true. God is a bit of a prick.

Do you not wish to reside with God and Jesus Christ?

domatron23

I'm fairly certain that it doesn't bother Crush because he knows that Mormonism is a false cult that is founded on unbiblical beliefs. As a result, he believes in only a literal heaven and a literal hell, and that The Father and The Son reside in the former while Satan and his demons reside in the latter. The doctrine of three "levels" on heaven is unbiblical, and since we know that The Bible is God's complete revelation to man and completely truthful, such a doctrine can be discarded.

Anyone who has truly put their faith in Christ and His sacrifice for redemption will go to heaven when they die, and fellowship with God the Father and Jesus the Son forever in bliss. Anyone who has not will immediately be transported to hell, where they will face not only extreme burning and flesh-eating worms, but an eternity of regret and sorrow for not only their sins, but any time in which they rejected the Lord's messengers and continued on their path to perdition.

Where will you be? Eternity is only a heartbeat away, as they say...

[QUOTE="domatron23"]

Do you not wish to reside with God and Jesus Christ?

mrcong

I'm fairly certain that Crush is very concerned about that because he knows that The Book of Mormon is the true inspired word of God. As a result, he believes in the three "levels" on heaven and since he knows that The Bible is a false doctrine based on a cult, such a doctrine can be discarded.

Don't take me seriously mrcong I'm playing around. Although there is some point to what I have been doing, we'll see if Crush (or yourself) can work out what that is.

Mar 9:43 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
Mar 9:44 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
Mar 9:45 And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
Mar 9:46 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
Mar 9:47 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:
Mar 9:48 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

mrcong

I think self-mutilation is frowned upon nowadays.

Yes.

Let's hope I go to nice, happy place, shall we?

Yes.

Let's hope I go to nice, happy place, shall we?

-TheSecondSign-

Ah, there is the problem. Your destiny isn't something that should be left up to chance. The good news is that all those who trust in Christ for salvation and forgiveness of their sins will not have to simply "hope" they will end up in a "happy place", they can rest assured that they will spend an eternity with God in an unimaginable paradise.

[QUOTE="-TheSecondSign-"]

Yes.

Let's hope I go to nice, happy place, shall we?

mrcong

Ah, there is the problem. Your destiny isn't something that should be left up to chance.

Whether destiny should be decided by chance or not is an opinion, not a fact.

Yes.

Let's hope I go to nice, happy place, shall we?

-TheSecondSign-

[QUOTE="mrcong"][QUOTE="domatron23"]

Do you not wish to reside with God and Jesus Christ?

domatron23

I'm fairly certain that Crush is very concerned about that because he knows that The Book of Mormon is the true inspired word of God. As a result, he believes in the three "levels" on heaven and since he knows that The Bible is a false doctrine based on a cult, such a doctrine can be discarded.

Don't take me seriously mrcong I'm playing around. Although there is some point to what I have been doing, we'll see if Crush (or yourself) can work out what that is.

Mormonism is not Biblical Christianity. They hold many beliefs that are contrary to Biblical revelation.

Here is some information for you since you have such a new found interest in Mormonism.

http://www.gotquestions.org/book-of-Mormon.html

http://www.gotquestions.org/Mormons.html

Whether destiny should be decided by chance or not is an opinion, not a fact.

-Jiggles-

We are not debating whether destiny should be decided by chance, my friend. I am telling you what God says-that our eternal destiny is decided by one thing, whether or not we trust in Christ's sacrifice to wipe away our inherent sin nature that is deserving of the hellfire. Whether or not you think destiny is decided by chance is irrelevant, the fact is that you have to make a choice: God's grace, or God's judgement.

Ah hello Crush. So now that I've converted you to Mormonism will you revoke your leadership of the Christian Witness Union?domatron23

Did you seriously converted to Mormonism? ~ de arimasuka

[QUOTE="domatron23"][QUOTE="mrcong"][QUOTE="domatron23"]

Do you not wish to reside with God and Jesus Christ?

son_of_Nephi

I'm fairly certain that Crush is very concerned about that because he knows that The Book of Mormon is the true inspired word of God. As a result, he believes in the three "levels" on heaven and since he knows that The Bible is a false doctrine based on a cult, such a doctrine can be discarded.

Don't take me seriously mrcong I'm playing around. Although there is some point to what I have been doing, we'll see if Crush (or yourself) can work out what that is.

Biblical Christianity is not Mormonism. They hold many beliefs that are contrary to Joseph Smith's revelation.

Hello Black. Surely you know what I'm trying to accomplish here with all of these ridiculous antics.

[QUOTE="-Jiggles-"]

Whether destiny should be decided by chance or not is an opinion, not a fact.

mrcong

We are not debating whether destiny should be decided by chance, my friend. I am telling you what God says-that our eternal destiny is decided by one thing, whether or not we trust in Christ's sacrifice to wipe away our inherent sin nature that is deserving of the hellfire. Whether or not you think destiny is decided by chance is irrelevant, the fact is that you have to make a choice: God's grace, or God's judgement.

And now we take another loop back to what I previously stated; destiny being decided by chance or not is an opinion, not fact.

My opinion is that the Christian god doesn't exist while your opinion states that such a god does exist. Neither opinion is 100% correct so do not be arrogant to believe that God undeniably exists.