Did Jesus Christ Sin? (Poll)

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chessmaster1989

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#151 chessmaster1989
Member since 2008 • 30203 Posts

[QUOTE="chessmaster1989"]

[QUOTE="blackregiment"]

Since we are discussing tombs, here is a article that discusses the real tomb that matters, the empty tomb of Jesus Christ and it impact it had and will have.

"There are "many infallible proofs" of the bodily resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ, but the testimony of the empty tomb is the most conclusive of all. Jesus had been buried, with the tomb sealed and guarded by a watch of Roman soldiers. Yet on the third day of His burial, on the morning of the first day of the week, the body was no longer there, and the empty tomb still stands today as an unanswerable proof that the Lord Jesus rose from the dead.

There are other proofs, of course. The ten or more recorded appearances of the resurrected Christ to His disciples, the amazing change of demeanor of the disciples from that of fearful hideaways to fearless evangelists, the worldwide spread of the Christian faith as founded on the resurrection, and so on. But the impact of the empty tomb was the foundation and bulwark of all the rest. As we consider its impact on the world, and on us today, it is instructively fascinating to consider first its impact on those who first encountered it."

I encourage you to read the entire article here...

http://www.icr.org/home/resources/resources_tracts_impactoftheemptytomb/

blackregiment

You know, BR, I still have never seen you provide a non-Biblical source asserting that the tomb was empty after 3 days :lol:

And I have never seen you provide a Biblical or non-Biblical source from the period asserting that the tomb was not empty.

"Evidence from Josephus
Perhaps the most remarkable reference to Jesus outside the Bible can be found in the writings of Josephus, a first century Jewish historian. On two occasions, in his Jewish Antiquities, he mentions Jesus. The second, less revealing, reference describes the condemnation of one "James" by the Jewish Sanhedrin. This James, says Josephus, was "the brother of Jesus the so-called Christ."{14} F.F. Bruce points out how this agrees with Paul's description of James in Galatians 1:19 as "the Lord's brother."{15} And Edwin Yamauchi informs us that "few scholars have questioned" that Josephus actually penned this passage.{16}
As interesting as this brief reference is, there is an earlier one, which is truly astonishing. Called the "Testimonium Flavianum," the relevant portion declares:
About this time there lived Jesus, a wise man, if indeed one ought to call him a man. For he . . . wrought surprising feats. . . . He was the Christ. When Pilate . . .condemned him to be crucified, those who had . . . come to love him did not give up their affection for him. On the third day he appeared . . . restored to life. . . . And the tribe of Christians . . . has . . . not disappeared.{17}
Did Josephus really write this? Most scholars think the core of the passage originated with Josephus, but that it was later altered by a Christian editor, possibly between the third and fourth century A.D.{18} But why do they think it was altered? Josephus was not a Christian, and it is difficult to believe that anyone but a Christian would have made some of these statements.{19}
For instance, the claim that Jesus was a wise man seems authentic, but the qualifying phrase, "if indeed one ought to call him a man," is suspect. It implies that Jesus was more than human, and it is quite unlikely that Josephus would have said that! It is also difficult to believe he would have flatly asserted that Jesus was the Christ, especially when he later refers to Jesus as "the so-called" Christ. Finally, the claim that on the third day Jesus appeared to His disciples restored to life, inasmuch as it affirms Jesus' resurrection, is quite unlikely to come from a non-Christian!
But even if we disregard the questionable parts of this passage, we are still left with a good deal of corroborating information about the biblical Jesus. We read that he was a wise man who performed surprising feats. And although He was crucified under Pilate, His followers continued their discipleship and became known as Christians. When we combine these statements with Josephus' later reference to Jesus as "the so-called Christ," a rather detailed picture emerges which harmonizes quite well with the biblical record. It increasingly appears that the "biblical Jesus" and the "historical Jesus" are one and the same!"

http://www.probe.org/site/c.fdKEIMNsEoG/b.4223639/k.567/Ancient_Evidence_for_Jesus_from_NonChristian_Sources.htm

I was looking for, you know, an account by someone who had looked in the tomb on that third day and found it empty ;). Besides, this source is worthless, as it doesn't provide any direct evidence of any form, and merely repeats that the disciples thought they saw Jesus resurrected, which really isn't saying much.

But, yeah, the moral of the story is that this source does not contribute to your argument ;).

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Crushmaster

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#152 Crushmaster
Member since 2008 • 4324 Posts

Well I have to go now. Till later, God bless blackregiment

Thanks for your help, BR.:) I need to be getting off pretty soon myself.

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Shad0ki11

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#153 Shad0ki11
Member since 2006 • 12576 Posts

I'm willing to bet there's a chance that he did. It's just a part of being human.

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darkguy_101

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#154 darkguy_101
Member since 2008 • 744 Posts

[QUOTE="darkguy_101"] But he didn't go with them. He stayed at the temple when he shouldn't.

What if the local pedophile saw him alone? Crushmaster


(Luke 2:40-52)- "And the child grew, and waxed strong in spirit, filled with wisdom: and the grace of God was upon him. {41} Now his parents went to Jerusalem every year at the feast of the passover. {42} And when he was twelve years old, they went up to Jerusalem after the custom of the feast. {43} And when they had fulfilled the days, as they returned, the child Jesus tarried behind in Jerusalem; and Joseph and his mother knew not of it. {44} But they, supposing him to have been in the company, went a day's journey; and they sought him among their kinsfolk and acquaintance. {45} And when they found him not, they turned back again to Jerusalem, seeking him. {46} And it came to pass, that after three days they found him in the temple, sitting in the midst of the doctors, both hearing them, and asking them questions. {47} And all that heard him were astonished at his understanding and answers. {48} And when they saw him, they were amazed: and his mother said unto him, Son, why hast thou thus dealt with us? behold, thy father and I have sought thee sorrowing. {49} And he said unto them, How is it that ye sought me? wist ye not that I must be about my Father's business? {50} And they understood not the saying which he spake unto them. {51} And he went down with them, and came to Nazareth, and was subject unto them: but his mother kept all these sayings in her heart. {52} And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man."

Furthermore, it wouldn't matter if a "local pedophile" saw Him alone. Jesus was God; the pedophile was powerless to do anything He did not allow.

So... He stayed for 3 days alone in the temple without his parents consenting? Even if his parents understood why did he stayed, the damage is done. His parents were dead worried, ashamed of their son.

Also, a challenge for you.

Prove me wrong: The invisible pink unicron is not real.

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hiphops_savior

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#155 hiphops_savior
Member since 2007 • 8535 Posts

Okay, but the bible says this:

Deuteronomy 24:16- "The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin."

So, you can take the uber-literal approach and conclude that sin is passed through the mother, which makes Jesus a sinner, or you can take the reasonable approach and conclude that there is no such thing as original sin, which means that Jesus died for nothing.

-Sun_Tzu-

If there is no original sin, how could you explain why humanity is so flawed, and that there is so much filth in human beings? Why do people invent new ways of killing each other, and enjoy it? Romans 1:18-31 pretty much summed up what humanity as sinners are like, and Romans 2 goes on to those who are self-righteous.

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#156 -Sun_Tzu-
Member since 2007 • 17384 Posts

[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"]Okay, but the bible says this:

Deuteronomy 24:16- "The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin."

So, you can take the uber-literal approach and conclude that sin is passed through the mother, which makes Jesus a sinner, or you can take the reasonable approach and conclude that there is no such thing as original sin, which means that Jesus died for nothing.

hiphops_savior

If there is no original sin, how could you explain why humanity is so flawed, and that there is so much filth in human beings? Why do people invent new ways of killing each other, and enjoy it? Romans 1:18-31 pretty much summed up what humanity as sinners are like, and Romans 2 goes on to those who are self-righteous.

Just because there is no original sin does not mean that humanity doesn't have the capability of sinning. We've always had that capability.
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Omni-Slash

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#157 Omni-Slash
Member since 2003 • 54450 Posts
[QUOTE="hiphops_savior"]

If there is no original sin, how could you explain why humanity is so flawed, and that there is so much filth in human beings? Why do people invent new ways of killing each other, and enjoy it? Romans 1:18-31 pretty much summed up what humanity as sinners are like, and Romans 2 goes on to those who are self-righteous.

because there is free will....and doing the wrong thing is so much easier than doing the right thing.....original sin is nothing more than a way out of your own decision making process....and a way to force people into following false ideology...
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domatron23

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#158 domatron23
Member since 2007 • 6226 Posts

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] And that was? Crushmaster


This: http://www.carm.org/questions/about-jesus/if-jesus-god-flesh-why-did-he-not-inherit-original-sin

That doesn't at all apply to my question.

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0Tyler0

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#159 0Tyler0
Member since 2008 • 2602 Posts
Oh look.. proof that he did not sin in the bible.. the book that glorifies him
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btaylor2404

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#160 btaylor2404
Member since 2003 • 11353 Posts

[QUOTE="btaylor2404"]I voted "I don't know" because I'm not convinced he existed. If he did, he certainly sinned by the Bible's definition.Crushmaster


There is a stunning amount of evidence for His existence. Even secular historians believe He existed.

What exactly do you mean by the second part of your post?

With all due respect there is much more "stunning" amount of evidence in evolution of humans from primates, evolution all species, dinosaurs on Earth before man, and that earth is billions of years old, things I know you don't believe to be true. If the amount of evidence is true that a man named Jesus walked the earth 2000 years ago and preached, I think he was a preacher, or prophet, nothing more, and would of course have sinned by the definition of the Bible, as it states all men do.

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TheGreatOutdoor

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#161 TheGreatOutdoor
Member since 2009 • 3234 Posts

Well I do know jealousy is a sin and god is guilty of that, so yes he is a sinner.

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Darth_Tyrev

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#162 Darth_Tyrev
Member since 2005 • 7072 Posts

I'd say yes, because of course I know what happened over 2,000 years ago, as many people here do.

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lonewolf604

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#163 lonewolf604
Member since 2007 • 8747 Posts

[QUOTE="lonewolf604"]its funny how when crushmaster makes a thread, br also swoops in. its like they PM each other "hey, BR I'm about to post a thread in OT, come help me out bro"blackregiment

It's a work of God my friend, a work of God.

too bad your effort is in vein. you try your best to evangelize people but not all of us are going to "see the truth", if there really is a truth that is...
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CleanPlayer

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#164 CleanPlayer
Member since 2008 • 9822 Posts
He lived a life without it. He set an example to everyone that living with it is more fullfilling.
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Kuhu

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#165 Kuhu
Member since 2004 • 2845 Posts

Probably.

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tycoonmike

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#166 tycoonmike
Member since 2005 • 6082 Posts

There are several answers one could give, but I will give the one you should expect of me: if Jesus truly is a manifestation of God, then God, being omnipotent, can, does, and will sin.

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FastNorwegian

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#167 FastNorwegian
Member since 2009 • 859 Posts
Jesus Christ actually existed(according to this one Discovery Channel show). I don't actually believe in heaven, so I think he may have sinned. lolwotrickroll
I am sort of in this state of being in Christ, but not heaven, but reincarnation. Makes more sense O.o.
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deactivated-5a79221380856

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#168 deactivated-5a79221380856
Member since 2007 • 13125 Posts

Jesus is a hell bound sinner by his own words. He said to the Pharisees "you fools" (Luke 11:37-51) which by his own admission puts him in a straight shot ticket to hell (Matt 5:22). He was drunk on his own wine. He worked on the Sabbath day.

By the own standards of the Bible, he was a fool himself. A worthless, liberal, peace-mongering hippie. He's like the biblical version of Obama. The media, er, I mean the Bible, just loves him and sees him as the messiah. Oh snap. Of course, that's all in accordance with the Bible. I don't know much about the secular history of Jesus enough to judge the character outside of what the Bible portrays him to be.

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Proobie44

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#169 Proobie44
Member since 2006 • 5663 Posts

Well he wasn't born from the good old fashioned way. In my opinion he was a perfect being like Adam. A perfect sacrifice in other words.

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AlphaRail

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#170 AlphaRail
Member since 2007 • 1789 Posts
I will say yes, he sinned..though I am an atheist..and I some what feel he never even existed because the bible used today was written a few hundred years after his death :?. Though you are entitled to believe in what you want to believe in, so don't mind me :P
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SonKev

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#171 SonKev
Member since 2007 • 552 Posts

[QUOTE="Tezcatlipoca666"]

[QUOTE="blackregiment"]

The Da Vinci Code is fiction and without historical support.

chessmaster1989

Sorta like the Bible?

:P

:lol: this post wins.

Actually, the events in the Bible are backed by historical documentation. The miracles obviously do require faith...
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chessmaster1989

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#172 chessmaster1989
Member since 2008 • 30203 Posts

[QUOTE="chessmaster1989"]

[QUOTE="Tezcatlipoca666"]

Sorta like the Bible?

:P

SonKev

:lol: this post wins.

Actually, the events in the Bible are backed by historical documentation. The miracles obviously do require faith...

I wasn't aware that there was historical evidence for Adam and Eve... :?

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ImaPirate0202

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#173 ImaPirate0202
Member since 2005 • 4473 Posts

No, that's what made him divine.

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scorch-62

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#174 scorch-62
Member since 2006 • 29763 Posts
[QUOTE="SonKev"]Actually, the events in the Bible are backed by historical documentation. The miracles obviously do require faith...chessmaster1989
I wasn't aware that there was historical evidence for Adam and Eve... :?

Or the events of the Noah's Ark story... or the presence of Jewish slaves in Egypt... or Moses's existence...
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Teenaged

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#175 Teenaged
Member since 2007 • 31764 Posts

By the definition of the Evangelic sin he certainly did. His human nature was present, so inevitably he must have had thoughts and passions, therefore he was prone to sin.

The irony though is that if we didnt consider sin as evangelists do then we could possibly say that Jesus hadnt sinned. Funny thing how an ideology turns against its foundation.

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Teenaged

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#176 Teenaged
Member since 2007 • 31764 Posts

[QUOTE="Kamekazi_69"] Ok, I want to say that I am a Christian and I say yes. In the New Testament, people like to glorify Jesus as God, as god himself, the perfect savior, but what people like to ignore is his human/mortal nature. In the New testament, there are passages where Jesus's human nature is reflected with his action, such as him not being aware of whos around him, or when he left his parents for 3 days to the holy temple. His parents were pissed. He was scold for those things. So yes because though he is the son of god in flesh form, he is human too and most people disregard that and I don't knoe why :roll: These are examples of how people misunderstand the testement and like to sugar coat it as their own. Basically they are not happy if its not what they want to hearCrushmaster


If Christ was not sinless, thenI am afraid all of us are doomed for eternity in a Devil's Hell. According to the verses I posted, He was sinless.

So he is sinless out of necessity for what you hold to be important for that cause?

Also the verses are all good, but they cant disprove that Jesus was half-man half-god, not just half-man because he was in the flesh but also because he must have shared humantraits also. Therefore he had a human, prove toevil and sin, nature. Period. This has been discussed over and over.

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Teenaged

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#177 Teenaged
Member since 2007 • 31764 Posts

[QUOTE="blackregiment"]

[QUOTE="BumFluff122"]So you don't accept the premise that the bible has been altered even if very slightly? Even though the scripture that is alive and well today is not the same scripture that was alive and well back at the birth of modern time?

BumFluff122

Reread my post. The Bible we have today is the inerrant, inspired Word of God.

So was the bible of yesteryear. Yet the old testament and the dead sea scrolls are not identical.

:o No response?

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123625

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#178 123625
Member since 2006 • 9035 Posts
Dunno, bible says he didn't so I don't think so.
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JustPlainLucas

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#179 JustPlainLucas
Member since 2002 • 80441 Posts
Assuming Jesus Christ existed, isn't there a big chunk of his life missing from the bible? Who's to say he wasn't pickpocketting when he was kid to buy crack before whoever wrote the bible decided to write about his good deeds? :?
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#180 foxhound_fox
Member since 2005 • 98532 Posts

Please Note: This topic's purpose is evangelism.

Crushmaster


Have you even read the new religious guidelines? It specifically states no evangelising.

We expect users creating religion threads to be open to other opinions and beliefs (religious, atheist, agnostic, mayonnaise) and we expect users creating a new topic to reflect that in their opening post. Simply stating "I believe X and that proves everyone who believes Y is wrong" or simply creating a thread for the purpose of spouting your own beliefs as fact will result in the thread being closed and repeated violations severely moderated.JodyR

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Teenaged

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#181 Teenaged
Member since 2007 • 31764 Posts

[QUOTE="lonewolf604"]its funny how when crushmaster makes a thread, br also swoops in. its like they PM each other "hey, BR I'm about to post a thread in OT, come help me out bro"blackregiment

It's a work of God my friend, a work of God.

:lol: Crushmaster unveiled the ..."work of god" just a few post behind yours! :lol:

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Teenaged

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#182 Teenaged
Member since 2007 • 31764 Posts

[QUOTE="Crushmaster"]

[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"]But God said that neither of them shall eat the apple. Eve ate it first, thus Eve sinned first, thus sin was brought into the world through her. Darth-Caedus

It is attributed to Adam because Adam is the man.

So god is sexist?:o

How dare you! :evil:

Actually the people who filtered the Bible were sexists (translators, editors even authors). That is of course if we accept the divine inspiration behind it existed and thus there is an issue of filtering. If not, then theres no such issue and the Bible itself is a product of the morals of the time, or at least very much influenced by them.

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GabuEx

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#183 GabuEx
Member since 2006 • 36552 Posts

By the definition of the Evangelic sin he certainly did. His human nature was present, so inevitably he must have had thoughts and passions, therefore he was prone to sin.

Teenaged

Actually, that's a good point. If someone believes in original sin, I am kinda curious how they then account for Jesus being a sinless human being.

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dj_pulserfan

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#184 dj_pulserfan
Member since 2007 • 3102 Posts

Who is Jesus?

"Jesus of Nazareth, also known as Jesus Christ, was a 1st century Jewish teacher. He is the central figure of Christianity, revered by Christians as the son of God, and is also an important figure in several other religions.Christian views of Jesus (see also Christology) center on the belief that Jesus is divine and is the Messiah whose coming was promised in the Old Testament and that he was resurrected after his crucifixion.
"

"Wtf is spermarche?"

"Spermarche-The first ejaculatory experience of boys is termed spermarche. It contrasts with menarche in girls. Depending on their upbringing, cultural differences, and prior sexual knowledge, boys may have different reactions to spermarche, ranging from fear to excitement. Spermarche is one of the first events in the life of a male leading to sexual maturity. It occurs at the time when the secondary sexual characteristics are just beginning to develop. The age when spermarche occurs is not easy to determine. However, researchers have tried to determine the age in various populations by taking urine samples of boys and determining the presence of spermatozoa. This process of determining the sperm content in urine is referred to as spermaturia. From various sources it appears that spermarche occurs between the ages of 11�15 years."


Lets continue shall we.

And what has me bring up this question is while reading psycology and health books I came (no pun intended) across something I found interesting. Every human, tries masturbating atleast once. Jesus was human, he didn't do miracles, God did. He was the producer of miracles while having nothing to actually do with the miracle itself.

We we're always told Jesus was perfect, but he isn't. And according to the bible, and everyone that worships him he wouldn't have acted upon these things. But Jesus was just human, and psychology & logic dictates that a human male, no matter what race, gender or cultural upbringings acts upon these feelings atleast once when they start to become present.

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chessmaster1989

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#185 chessmaster1989
Member since 2008 • 30203 Posts

[QUOTE="Crushmaster"]Please Note: This topic's purpose is evangelism.

foxhound_fox


Have you even read the new religious guidelines? It specifically states no evangelising.

We expect users creating religion threads to be open to other opinions and beliefs (religious, atheist, agnostic, mayonnaise) and we expect users creating a new topic to reflect that in their opening post. Simply stating "I believe X and that proves everyone who believes Y is wrong" or simply creating a thread for the purpose of spouting your own beliefs as fact will result in the thread being closed and repeated violations severely moderated.JodyR

foxhound has a point...

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scorch-62

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#186 scorch-62
Member since 2006 • 29763 Posts

foxhound has a point...chessmaster1989
You think someone would have pointed this out sooner...

edit - Also, is it just my lack of paying attention, or is this the first poll where the theist answer is actually winning?

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MarineXXII

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#187 MarineXXII
Member since 2007 • 1583 Posts

He doesnt exist people, believe me, he doesnt

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pianist

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#188 pianist
Member since 2003 • 18900 Posts

:lol:...so god took the time to be create himself in human form to suffer for our sins.... but didn't want the human condition trapping of Original sin........well..that seems fair.......:lol:Omni-Slash

Pfft. Fair. It's entirely clear that God plays by His own set of rules whenever it's convenient for Him. One need look no further than Matthew 5:44-46 to see that. That's what you get to do when you're the judge, jury, and executioner.

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scorch-62

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#189 scorch-62
Member since 2006 • 29763 Posts

He doesnt exist people, believe me, he doesnt

MarineXXII
I thought it was accepted that Jesus existed, but only his divinity was brought into question... >.>
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pianist

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#190 pianist
Member since 2003 • 18900 Posts

He doesnt exist people, believe me, he doesnt

MarineXXII

He does. Doesn't matter if he's an idea, a historical figure, or a real presence in the world today. Jesus exists. If he didn't, we wouldn't be hearing from the CWU.

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GabuEx

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#191 GabuEx
Member since 2006 • 36552 Posts

Pfft. Fair. It's entirely clear that God plays by His own set of rules whenever it's convenient for Him. One need look no further than Matthew 5:44-46 to see that. That's what you get to do when you're the judge, jury, and executioner.

pianist

"But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that?"

I'm... not sure I see the problem there. :P

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MarineXXII

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#192 MarineXXII
Member since 2007 • 1583 Posts

[QUOTE="MarineXXII"]

He doesnt exist people, believe me, he doesnt

scorch-62

I thought it was accepted that Jesus existed, but only his divinity was brought into question... >.>

and His holy divinity is fake otherwise people in the world would not be suffering while others are stuffing their faces with fast food and luxory items. If Jesus existed my niece who had down syndrome would not have only survived for only 8 days but lived to actually know who I was and have a happy life.

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gago-gago

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#193 gago-gago
Member since 2009 • 12138 Posts

Only God knows.

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Deihjan

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#194 Deihjan
Member since 2008 • 30213 Posts

[QUOTE="Crushmaster"]

[QUOTE="btaylor2404"]I voted "I don't know" because I'm not convinced he existed. If he did, he certainly sinned by the Bible's definition.btaylor2404


There is a stunning amount of evidence for His existence. Even secular historians believe He existed.

What exactly do you mean by the second part of your post?

With all due respect there is much more "stunning" amount of evidence in evolution of humans from primates, evolution all species, dinosaurs on Earth before man, and that earth is billions of years old, things I know you don't believe to be true. If the amount of evidence is true that a man named Jesus walked the earth 2000 years ago and preached, I think he was a preacher, or prophet, nothing more, and would of course have sinned by the definition of the Bible, as it states all men do.

[spoiler] [/spoiler]

Spoiler contains a BIG image about religion and evolution....

I'm with Darwin on this one, and not his christian side...

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Chutebox

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#195 Chutebox  Online
Member since 2007 • 50716 Posts

Of course not.

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pianist

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#196 pianist
Member since 2003 • 18900 Posts

[QUOTE="domatron23"][QUOTE="lonewolf604"]its funny how when crushmaster makes a thread, br also swoops in. its like they PM each other "hey, BR I'm about to post a thread in OT, come help me out bro"Darth-Caedus
Actually they do. Every time Crush starts an evangelism thread he sends two union wide PMs about it so that everyone can join in. It's not a coincidence that these threads have several CWU members in them at a time.

Thats just sad really....

They're like an advertising firm, but are allowed to continue doing this because they are peddling poorly disguised evangelism instead of a product. I don't see how this is any different than those guys coming in here and posting links to "cool websites" that advertise beliefs or products. Of course, it's all about technicalities. The mods know EXACTLY what they're doing, but can't shut them down, because they'd cry foul about having their religious beliefs persecuted, even though that would be a blatant lie.

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Deihjan

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#197 Deihjan
Member since 2008 • 30213 Posts

[QUOTE="Darth-Caedus"][QUOTE="domatron23"] Actually they do. Every time Crush starts an evangelism thread he sends two union wide PMs about it so that everyone can join in. It's not a coincidence that these threads have several CWU members in them at a time.pianist

Thats just sad really....

They're like an advertising firm, but are allowed to continue doing this because they are peddling poorly disguised evangelism instead of a product. I don't see how this is any different than those guys coming in here and posting links to "cool websites" that advertise beliefs or products. Of course, it's all about technicalities. The mods know EXACTLY what they're doing, but can't shut them down, because they'd cry foul about having their religious beliefs persecuted, even though that would be a blatant lie.

pianist wins again. Why must thou be so smrt? :o And I wish that they would stop trying to turn us, I mean, how many have they turned with this kind of LONG reads?
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MarineXXII

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#198 MarineXXII
Member since 2007 • 1583 Posts

dude, Deihjan, i totally agree with ur chart, God did not create the universe unless he hung around for BILLIONS of years just to tell the people of the planet EARTH about his creation, considering we were the only intelligent species alive in the UNIVERSE. Anyways, what I am tryin to say is that we are not alone, there is no "God," there is def. some intelligent life form out there in this VAST universe. There is no way we are alone...

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zakkro

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#199 zakkro
Member since 2004 • 48823 Posts
Well I don't know. But since a book said he didn't, I guess it might be true.
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pianist

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#200 pianist
Member since 2003 • 18900 Posts

[QUOTE="pianist"]

Pfft. Fair. It's entirely clear that God plays by His own set of rules whenever it's convenient for Him. One need look no further than Matthew 5:44-46 to see that. That's what you get to do when you're the judge, jury, and executioner.

GabuEx

"But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that?"

I'm... not sure I see the problem there. :P

5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
5:45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
5:46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?

I don't tend to associate damning your enemy eternally with love, nor do I consider eternal damnation a blessing. And I certainly don't consider it doing good to those that hate you. See, it's a really nice thought. We are commanded to live by that principle. But God? Oh no. He gets to SLAUGHTER His enemy. He gets to exact some GOOD, RIGHTEOUS PAYBACK on those who curse him or hate him... as opposed to doing exactly what we're supposed to do to those who hate us or curse us. That's what I mean when I say God is playing by His own set of rules. And if He gets to hate and damn where we must forgive and turn the other cheek... it's not equitable, not fair.

As for 5:46 - Most Bible believers will claim that God DOES love the souls He casts into Hell, but we both know that wrath and the imposition of eternal torture as punishment for disobedience are the very antithesis of love. So if we are to believe this verse, Jesus ironically demonstrates that God is no better than the 'fallen' publicans when it comes to love and forgiveness.

So that's the problem. These are good notions to which the turn or burn God does not ascribe, despite demanding that we do.