Lost Odyssey, All is Redeemed, Reviews Are In: Unofficial Thread : )

[QUOTE="EdgecrusherAza"]

Its amazing how much disconnect there is between critics and RPG fans, when it comes to this game. Critics seem to suddenly think every RPG needs to copy Elder Scrolls instead of Final Fantasy, and any game like FF is now "dated", while fans are just damn happy there's finally another series that's actually GOOD at copying FF.

This is what EGM wrote about Lost Odyssey:

"Lost Odyssey tries hard to capture the Final Fantasy look and feel (some of its creators worked on that legendary series). We spend alot of time with the import version and came away with the distict feeling that we've done all this before. Bland levels and a dated-feeling combat system do the game's unique storyline a disservice."

Bland levels? Dated combat? So again, because it copies FF and not open-world, real-time combat like Elder Scrolls, suddenly its dated. I happen to really like LO's battle system ( in the bit I've played of it ) and I think this FF-type style of combat and random battles is the best I've ever played of its kind. And as for bland levels, I didn't see anything bland about the levels at all. So its not open-world, who cares?

Again, it just seems like critics don't really GET the fact that people want more RPG's on FF's level. There's never been many, and that's why FF is so hugely popular. People want JRPG's with insane production values that look like they're not designed for 10 year olds.

CarnageHeart

As for your claim that there people are looking for FF clones with high production values, I disagree. The FF games are usually quality, but people have shown themselves capable of looking past games like Shadow Hearts Covenant (whose production values rivalled FFX and whose length and scope eclipsed it) and the Megaten games (all of which sell a fraction of the lowest selling FF game).

I'm going off personal experience. I've known so many people that played FF because of the mature tone compared to other RPG's. Even the Megaten games have that anime stye that turns people off at first glance ( and I myself can't get into the series). Shadow Hearts I agree, that was a great game. But it didn't have the marketing push of FF either.

Either way, I'm sure neither of us is going to convince the other either way.

Most critics (including EGM if I recall correctly) seemed to like FF12 and Persona 3 (both of which were jrpgs which brought new stuff to the table) well enough.

CarnageHeart

Most critics also liked Burnout Paradise and Oblivion, while most fans thought both were significant steps backwards. (in fact, I think they're both completely broken and vastly inferior to the games that came before them, and exemplify that change for the sake of it never works) FF12 caused many an FF fan to swear off the series. It lost it's identity and gave us a generic looking dungeon crawler that, quite literally, masturbates. (it plays with itself) Their is a growing disconnect between the fluffmeisters who claim to be legit journalists, and actual gamers buying and playing games. Which as ShameUs pointed out, is a problem, because these potheads are going into game development, which may explain why I buy so few games these days.

[QUOTE="CarnageHeart"]

Criticizing Lost Odyssey for being too retro isn't necessarily the same as criticizing it for not being an Oblivion clone. Most critics (including EGM if I recall correctly) seemed to like FF12 and Persona 3 (both of which were jrpgs which brought new stuff to the table) well enough. The simple fact of the matter is that in some ways LO is a step backwards in terms of rpg design. If that doesn't bother some people, more power to them, but there is a difference between recognizing random encounters as the nonsensical anachorism that they are and disliking jrpgs.

As for your claim that there people are looking for FF clones with high production values, I disagree. The FF games are usually quality, but people have shown themselves capable of looking past games like Shadow Hearts Covenant (whose production values rivalled FFX and whose length and scope eclipsed it) and the Megaten games (all of which sell a fraction of the lowest selling FF game).

Shame-usBlackley

I wrote the book on random encounter and grind hating. That's the thing that I find so puzzling about Lost Odyssey's reception. The game has neither grinding or take-a-step-get-in-a-fight battles. Not to mention the ring meter that brings some level of interaction to the battles. It's probably the most unconventionally conventional JRPG you'll find. The game is Final Fantasy X without the annoying bits. Considering that Final Fantasy is one of the most revered games of the last generation, and since I'M SURE that the reason for that isn't due to the grinding and constant random battles, it's puzzling to see the reaction to Lost Odyssey, which adjusts those issues and keeps everything that was awesome about it.

And when you take into account storytelling, pacing, and voice acting, this game is actually superior to either FFX or XII. Of course the press loved FF XII, it resembled an MMO, only offline. But for every person I hear say they liked the change, I hear two say they wished it was like previous games in the series. Anecdotal, sure.... but I wouldn't go so far as to say that FF XII was the harbinger of great new things for the franchise.

As for the correlation that just because Shadow Hearts bombed meaning that people aren't interested in FF-caliber games that aren't made by Square, I don't buy it. That's like saying people aren't interested in shooters because Uncharted didn't sell as well as it should've. Or that 50 Cent's Bulletproof was a good game because it sold a million copies. The market doesn't make sensical decisions all the time. A game's quality can't be judged by its sales necessarily. Nor can the market for it.

There have been quality jrpgs not named FF, but none have put up anywhere near the numbers FF games do. That clearly isn't the case for first person shooters.

As for people who claim to be fans of stuff like random encounters, I don't doubt that they exist, but I also don't doubt that they anything more than a vocal minority (kind of like fans of Amano's character designs).

Last but not least, I didn't say that FF12 necessarily heralded a new direction for the series. Aside from the fact that Matsuno is no longer with Squenix, the strength (or the weakness, depending on how one wants to look at it) is that Squenix changes the series up quite a bit from game to game.

I consider gameplay/game design more important than storytelling (its of critical importance for rpgs, but by itself isn't enough), even for rpgs, but that's just me.

[QUOTE="CarnageHeart"]

Most critics (including EGM if I recall correctly) seemed to like FF12 and Persona 3 (both of which were jrpgs which brought new stuff to the table) well enough.

VegetaJr

Most critics also liked Burnout Paradise and Oblivion, while most fans thought both were significant steps backwards. (in fact, I think they're both completely broken and vastly inferior to the games that came before them, and exemplify that change for the sake of it never works) FF12 caused many an FF fan to swear off the series. It lost it's identity and gave us a generic looking dungeon crawler that, quite literally, masturbates. (it plays with itself) Their is a growing disconnect between the fluffmeisters who claim to be legit journalists, and actual gamers buying and playing games. Which as ShameUs pointed out, is a problem, because these potheads are going into game development, which may explain why I buy so few games these days.

I'm not arguing that critics are always right and/or that they are smarter than the rest of us, I was merely pointing out that the claim that critics hate LO just because it is a jrpg and not an Oblivion clone doesn't hold water.

As for your claim about FF12, legions of people always seem to declare that they have sworn off FF after any given game (FF7 was all about visuals, FF8 was too summon heavy, FF9's villian sucked, FFX was too linear, etc, etc) but the FF games always seem to do pretty well. Time will tell.

I kind of have a question about Lost Odyssey.

Does anyone else feel the Xenosaga(ish) type dialogue in the game? What I mean by Xenosaga(ish) is that the dialogue seems to go in weird tangents at random points in the game? They may not necessarily be random tangents per say but at the point I am in the game, I interpret them as that.

***SPOILER***

I'm still in disc 1 so I'll be using an example from very early in the game. Remember when Jansen was talking to Queen Namura in the White Boa? He tried to kidnap her or something for no apparent reason. I know he's a womanizer but outside of that, he never displayed beforehand his inner desires for royal abductions. What the hell was that about? That to me served no real plot development at the moment. The characters in the game don't seem to be even bothered by it or wonder about it at all. IF I wasn't used to, and enjoy, the Xenosaga(ish) type dialogue and story development, I would have assumed that was just some random event that would have served no purpose whatsoever and dropped it from my memory as I progressed further into the game. I know there's going to be something that's going to reference that event later on in the game.

***END SPOILER***

Is this type of dialogue from these types of JRPG's popular in Japan? Can the translation from Japanese to English create this effect unintentionally? Or is this effect something that I only seem to over analyze about? Does anyone here even know what I'm talking about? MarcusAntonius, I'm pretty sure you know what I'm refering to.

I guess to help elaborate more, I'll add this. In Xenosaga, many things that are said in the game through character dialogue may sound weird and out of place a lot in the series. The player, such as myself, in the beginning, would wonder why the hell this was said. If you'll notice too, the characters within the story won't share the same reaction as you and qute frankly, they'll display almost the exact opposite, which is not being phased or shocked by the matter.

Like for instance in Episode I of Xenosaga, the Blue Testament (Virgil) will call chaos, "Boss" after the fight with Albedo's Simeon and none of the other characters will ever be saying to themselves or outloud "Why did he call chaos 'Boss'?" or "That's strange." There are many instances in the Xenosaga trilogy that have this type of scene and I'm noticing this a lot in Lost Odyssey.

I finally got around to finishing the game. It was good enough to get me to spend 70+ hours to accomplish everything possible. Well, not everything; one achievement makes you get literally every item in the field - treasure chests, ramming into trees, kicking garbage cans, breaking rocks, checking pots, everything. Missing one could lead to dozens of hours of frustration to find one lousy potion. But other than that, it's all good. While the mortals and immortals were balanced well in the first half of the game, the immortals certainly started to pull ahead at the later half, especially near the end when mortals were glorified skill teachers. Not to mention some of the later skills are rather powerful and not that hard to get, which certainly eased up on the difficulty of boss encounters.

It is what it is - a PS1 Squaresoft RPG with prettier graphics. If you've ever said you wish they could make RPG's like the Golden Age of the PS1, then you might as well give LO a try as it'll probably have a lot that you like. That said, since it feels like it's from the PS1 era, most reviewers are going to dock points across the board. I guess that makes sense, in a way. But for a lot of people, this is probably the RPG they're looking for, regardless of how it's scoring.

Jansen owns.