Lost Odyssey, All is Redeemed, Reviews Are In: Unofficial Thread : )

*shrugs* Both are broken, in my book, and if it's going to be broken, I'd simply rather not be waiting around for it to be broken, since the former gets me through the game faster. Mass Effect justified it's problems to me with its combat and development systems, something that I'm not sure Lost Odyssey is going to do, but I'll figure that out when I play it.

Skylock00

Indeed. We'll know tomorrow.

Anything BioWare, Blizzard, Square Enix release...may get a few extra points.

8.5 for BioWare is horrible, it is a failure. It is a walk of shame. Reviewers just don't want to lose their carrers and give the lowest possible score for BioWare.

Some companies, if they don't get 9.0 or more, it mean everything. Reviwers who would give 6.0 for anything done by Blizzard, BioWare or Square Enix recently/near future...hahaha, good luck surviving that score, no matter if it was or not deserved. The 8.0 given to Mask of the Betrayer is also in this category, the Soul Meter alone change the core of the game, and such a change means it would normally have been under 6.0...but reviewers are carefully searching for a way to give a higher score...to something that is FUNDAMENTALLY different, but supposed to be a sequel? 6.0 would be generous.

Indeed. We'll know tomorrow.

Shame-usBlackley

And by that time, it just comes to personal preference.

Anything BioWare, Blizzard, Square Enix release...may get a few extra points.

8.5 for BioWare is horrible, it is a failure. It is a walk of shame. Reviewers just don't want to lose their carrers and give the lowest possible score for BioWare.

Some companies, if they don't get 9.0 or more, it mean everything. Reviwers who would give 6.0 for anything done by Blizzard, BioWare or Square Enix recently/near future...hahaha, good luck surviving that score, no matter if it was or not deserved. The 8.0 given to Mask of the Betrayer is also in this category, the Soul Meter alone change the core of the game, and such a change means it would normally have been under 6.0...but reviewers are carefully searching for a way to give a higher score...to something that is FUNDAMENTALLY different, but supposed to be a sequel? 6.0 would be generous.

Anofalye

Wha?

Square has released a ton of crap games over the past 8 years that have gotten crap scores. Blizzard and Bioware just don't release enough games to really release anything too horrible.

[QUOTE="Anofalye"]

Anything BioWare, Blizzard, Square Enix release...may get a few extra points.

8.5 for BioWare is horrible, it is a failure. It is a walk of shame. Reviewers just don't want to lose their carrers and give the lowest possible score for BioWare.

Some companies, if they don't get 9.0 or more, it mean everything. Reviwers who would give 6.0 for anything done by Blizzard, BioWare or Square Enix recently/near future...hahaha, good luck surviving that score, no matter if it was or not deserved. The 8.0 given to Mask of the Betrayer is also in this category, the Soul Meter alone change the core of the game, and such a change means it would normally have been under 6.0...but reviewers are carefully searching for a way to give a higher score...to something that is FUNDAMENTALLY different, but supposed to be a sequel? 6.0 would be generous.

EdgecrusherAza

Wha?

Square has released a ton of crap games over the past 8 years that have gotten crap scores. Blizzard and Bioware just don't release enough games to really release anything too horrible.

No, it is a vast consipiracy among all reviewers. It's not like every game those developers put out has been awesome... oh wait, yeah they have!

Well, except Square Enix, but that's because they put out like 10 terrible games every year with Final Fantasy in the title or something.

This game is sheer mediocrity and I'm outraged that there are developers out there who insist on turning back the clock. I may pick this up when it hits the budget rack, but this game does not deserve its price tag, I will not reward trash. So much for next gen gaming.

Mistwalker is a flop.

[QUOTE="EdgecrusherAza"][QUOTE="Anofalye"]

Anything BioWare, Blizzard, Square Enix release...may get a few extra points.

8.5 for BioWare is horrible, it is a failure. It is a walk of shame. Reviewers just don't want to lose their carrers and give the lowest possible score for BioWare.

Some companies, if they don't get 9.0 or more, it mean everything. Reviwers who would give 6.0 for anything done by Blizzard, BioWare or Square Enix recently/near future...hahaha, good luck surviving that score, no matter if it was or not deserved. The 8.0 given to Mask of the Betrayer is also in this category, the Soul Meter alone change the core of the game, and such a change means it would normally have been under 6.0...but reviewers are carefully searching for a way to give a higher score...to something that is FUNDAMENTALLY different, but supposed to be a sequel? 6.0 would be generous.

AtomicTangerine

Wha?

Square has released a ton of crap games over the past 8 years that have gotten crap scores. Blizzard and Bioware just don't release enough games to really release anything too horrible.

No, it is a vast consipiracy among all reviewers. It's not like every game those developers put out has been awesome... oh wait, yeah they have!

Well, except Square Enix, but that's because they put out like 10 terrible games every year with Final Fantasy in the title or something.

I'm not familiar with the recent works of Blizzard, but Bioware hasn't released anything worth playing since KOTOR. Jade Empire's different styles were simplistic and largely undifferentiated and the enemy and friendly AI were low quality, but reviewers were lavish in their praise. I haven't bothered with Mass Effect, but the presence of a large collection of lethal bugs indicates that Bioware is as indifferent to quality as ever.

This game is sheer mediocrity and I'm outraged that there are developers out there who insist on turning back the clock. I may pick this up when it hits the budget rack, but this game does not deserve its price tag, I will not reward trash. So much for next gen gaming.

Mistwalker is a flop.

MarcusAntonius

If turning back the clock means I beat my first JRPG since FFX, I'm all for it. Because all attempts so far to have the clock move forward have left me uninterested and bored. JRPGs are a flop.

This game is sheer mediocrity and I'm outraged that there are developers out there who insist on turning back the clock. I may pick this up when it hits the budget rack, but this game does not deserve its price tag, I will not reward trash. So much for next gen gaming.

Mistwalker is a flop.

MarcusAntonius

Maybe you should have PLAYED a Mistwalker game and consider that no Square-Enix or Final Fantasy-Logo on it.If you had PLAYED Blue Dragon you whould have laughed about the bad Reviews who are overflowing with unprofessional comments and critics.Blue Dragon was an outstanding RPG when it comes to playabilty which is in fact the most important thing besides the Storyline and this you can´t judge before playing.Final Fantasy X-2 got Reviews up to 90% after all,and the game is one of the worst RPGs I ever played.That´s what I call trash.And I called it trash after I played it.

[QUOTE="MarcusAntonius"]

This game is sheer mediocrity and I'm outraged that there are developers out there who insist on turning back the clock. I may pick this up when it hits the budget rack, but this game does not deserve its price tag, I will not reward trash. So much for next gen gaming.

Mistwalker is a flop.

VegetaJr

If turning back the clock means I beat my first JRPG since FFX, I'm all for it. Because all attempts so far to have the clock move forward have left me uninterested and bored. JRPGs are a flop.

The attempts of the defenders of Lost Odssey to compare it to the likes of FFX are hilarious. I've seen Lost Odyssey's painful load times and nonsensical animations (characters yawning and scratching their butts as monsters charge towards them makes little objective sense, though they might be mirroring the boredom of the players). It probably isn't the slowest paced, slowest loading rpg ever made, but its certainly high on the list.

This game is sheer mediocrity and I'm outraged that there are developers out there who insist on turning back the clock. I may pick this up when it hits the budget rack, but this game does not deserve its price tag, I will not reward trash. So much for next gen gaming.

Mistwalker is a flop.MarcusAntonius

I wouldn't go as far as calling the game trash, or saying Mistwalker is a flop; but I do agree about not deserving its price tag.

Maybe I'll pick it up when the price better reflects what the game has to offer.

[QUOTE="VegetaJr"][QUOTE="MarcusAntonius"]

This game is sheer mediocrity and I'm outraged that there are developers out there who insist on turning back the clock. I may pick this up when it hits the budget rack, but this game does not deserve its price tag, I will not reward trash. So much for next gen gaming.

Mistwalker is a flop.

CarnageHeart

If turning back the clock means I beat my first JRPG since FFX, I'm all for it. Because all attempts so far to have the clock move forward have left me uninterested and bored. JRPGs are a flop.

The attempts of the defenders of Lost Odssey to compare it to the likes of FFX are hilarious. I've seen Lost Odyssey's painful load times and nonsensical animations (characters yawning and scratching their butts as monsters charge towards them makes little objective sense, though they might be mirroring the boredom of the players). It probably isn't the slowest paced, slowest loading rpg ever made, but its certainly high on the list.

Let me guess..you´re a Final Fantasy Fan,aren´t you?Maybe one who started with the direct downfall of the series (FFX)...that´s a typical reaction for Fanboys who see other games who make the almost same stuff better...

Let me guess..you´re a Final Fantasy Fan,aren´t you?Maybe one who started with the direct downfall of the series (FFX)...that´s a typical reaction for Fanboys who see other games who make the almost same stuff better...Ash2X

The downfall of the franchise, if anywhere, started back in FF7, IMHO, with the fall being in a longer scale than others view it.

[QUOTE="Skylock00"]

[QUOTE="Ash2X"]Let me guess..you´re a Final Fantasy Fan,aren´t you?Maybe one who started with the direct downfall of the series (FFX)...that´s a typical reaction for Fanboys who see other games who make the almost same stuff better...dvader654

The downfall of the franchise, if anywhere, started back in FF7, IMHO, with the fall being in a longer scale than others view it.

You are one of them (the ones that think FFVII was not that good). :P I got into the series at FF7, loved it. Loved FF8 even more. FFIX not so much, FFX was good, FFXII is incredible. The series has maintained a high level of quality throughout. It has not declined in anyway, it has its ups and downs but its still the best RPG series out there.

XII is what got me into the series and hopefully XIII will not disappoint me. I just loved the battle system of XII. I don't know why people said the story was utter crap, but I will also be the first to say gameplay >>>> story/graphics/whatever for me in a game. If I am able to pick up the controller and it hooks me than it is a good game by my merits. That is not to say that I do not like heavy story driven games. I will play a well made old style adventure game - something akin to Phoenix Wright, but when I get serious with gaming I just love to get it on. A good story is just icing on the cake for me. Fortunately, I get a lot of icing on a lot of my cakes.

You are one of them (the ones that think FFVII was not that good). :P I got into the series at FF7, loved it. Loved FF8 even more. FFIX not so much, FFX was good, FFXII is incredible. The series has maintained a high level of quality throughout. It has not declined in anyway, it has its ups and downs but its still the best RPG series out there.dvader654

Basically, even though the character development systems got more interesting over time, they also became to a point where characters individually became less and less distinctive and unique, IMHO, with FFXII really driving that point one with the license board system, which was cool, but didn't really end up as enjoyable as it could've been had it been more personalized and specialized (whcih ironically was the case with the Japanese re-release of FFXII). Now, granted, the job systems in FFIII and V did this to a degree, too, but those systems didn't seem nearly as easy to mess around with and go all over the place as the License board was in XII.

In terms of combat, one of my favorites in the series, actually, was X-2.

[QUOTE="MarcusAntonius"]

This game is sheer mediocrity and I'm outraged that there are developers out there who insist on turning back the clock. I may pick this up when it hits the budget rack, but this game does not deserve its price tag, I will not reward trash. So much for next gen gaming.

Mistwalker is a flop.

VegetaJr

If turning back the clock means I beat my first JRPG since FFX, I'm all for it. Because all attempts so far to have the clock move forward have left me uninterested and bored. JRPGs are a flop.

Isn't cheap heat fun?

[QUOTE="MarcusAntonius"]This game is sheer mediocrity and I'm outraged that there are developers out there who insist on turning back the clock. I may pick this up when it hits the budget rack, but this game does not deserve its price tag, I will not reward trash. So much for next gen gaming.

Mistwalker is a flop.LordAndrew

I wouldn't go as far as calling the game trash, or saying Mistwalker is a flop; but I do agree about not deserving its price tag.

Maybe I'll pick it up when the price better reflects what the game has to offer.

If this is where next gen gaming is taking RPGs, then count me out. As far as Mistwalker goes, one is an abberation, two is a trend.

[QUOTE="MarcusAntonius"]

This game is sheer mediocrity and I'm outraged that there are developers out there who insist on turning back the clock. I may pick this up when it hits the budget rack, but this game does not deserve its price tag, I will not reward trash. So much for next gen gaming.

Mistwalker is a flop.

Ash2X

Maybe you should have PLAYED a Mistwalker game and consider that no Square-Enix or Final Fantasy-Logo on it.If you had PLAYED Blue Dragon you whould have laughed about the bad Reviews who are overflowing with unprofessional comments and critics.Blue Dragon was an outstanding RPG when it comes to playabilty which is in fact the most important thing besides the Storyline and this you can´t judge before playing.Final Fantasy X-2 got Reviews up to 90% after all,and the game is one of the worst RPGs I ever played.That´s what I call trash.And I called it trash after I played it.

Maybe you should stop assuming that just because someone is critical of a game means that they haven't played it. How very presumptuous and arrogant of you.

Just picked the game up. Not sure if I should play it before Blue Dragon (which is widely considered the weaker game). I still have to beat Eternal Sonata before either one though. And on the non-RPG front I also just picked up DMC4. Aww, I told myself I've beat the Fall '07 games before spending more money, too late.

Edit: Wow, it's a warzone in here. How about we focus on LO and take the FF comparisons another place.

The FF franchise has remained fresh from Day 1, with no entries that could be considered any sort of "downfall," and anybody who says otherwise gets zero respect from me. I'll make that plain right off the bat.

Secondly, if I have to hear the argument that says something like Lost Odyssey is "trash" because it's not real-time like Mass Effect and doesn't introduce an entirely new battle mechanic, I'm going to have some kind of meltdown. It's this kind of mentality that says games deserve 2s and 3s just because they don't fit a certain definition of "advancement" or "next-generation." Nobody has ever proven that real-time mechanics are in any way deeper or more intricate than turn-based mechanics, and even though I realize we're in the day and age where constant button-mashing is required for "quality," I'd rather not lend an ear to such a ridiculous argument.

There are many different styles and kinds of RPGs. At the rate we're going, we'll end up with ONE style of RPG just because of a decidedly elitist theory that turn-based is out-of-date or old-fashioned. We're a society that craves constant stimulation. Is it any surprise that the same people who complain about this style also can't sit still long enough to cut their fingernails? They always want to skip any and all cut-scenes because they're "useless?" No, it's not surprising. And if you game this way, more power to you. But to level criticism at the game because it doesn't fit the so-called "forward" way of thinking is irritating. No...more than irritating. Go play Oblivion again and just leave me alone, that's all I've got to say.

Marcus: If Atlus had made this game, you'd be raving about it. All the "l33t" RPG fans like yourself would just "understand" how great it is while all the "casual" RPGers have no clue because it's not called Final Fantasy. Good God...you are WAY too predictable.

Secondly, if I have to hear the argument that says something like Lost Odyssey is "trash" because it's not real-time like Mass Effect and doesn't introduce an entirely new battle mechanic, I'm going to have some kind of meltdown. It's this kind of mentality that says games deserve 2s and 3s just because they don't fit a certain definition of "advancement" or "next-generation." Nobody has ever proven that real-time mechanics are in any way deeper or more intricate than turn-based mechanics, and even though I realize we're in the day and age where constant button-mashing is required for "quality," I'd rather not lend an ear to such a ridiculous argument.fathoms_basic

Etrian Odyssey was an example of a game, for me, that had nice, rapid pacing in combat that made falling into random battles not a terrible chore, and Persona 3's combat was enjoyable for me, though it would've been nice to have more direct control over the full party. Final Fantasy X and X-2 both were games I found enjoyable in the combat and levelling mechanics (Though, realistically, I thought FFX's levelling mechanic was more interesting at its core, while the design and pacing of X-2's combat got the edge from me in that regard).

Given other impressions that I've picked up regarding the game (namely in how the skill system is given more emphasis for effective progress against bosses as opposed to strict levelling), I'm probably going to give this game a shot sometime when I have the ability to invest a good 10-20 hours into it over the course of a few days to get a good feel for the combat and other mechanics. Perhaps in context, the pacing of the combat may not be as jarring as some of the videos show it to be, but that's something I'll only be able to see when I play the game.

My issue really isn't in whether the game is turn based or not, honestly...and to a degree, random battles don't bother me as much, so long as those two elements are given a decent sense of brisk pacing if I want it to, in order to help minimize drag that can occur from possibly being thrown into battle constantly with little control of whether or not I have to engage in it. If I came off a bit too polarizing on the issue earlier to some, I apologize.

Etrian Odyssey was an example of a game, for me, that had nice, rapid pacing in combat that made falling into random battles not a terrible chore, and Persona 3's combat was enjoyable for me, though it would've been nice to have more direct control over the full party. Final Fantasy X and X-2 both were games I found enjoyable in the combat and levelling mechanics (Though, realistically, I thought FFX's levelling mechanic was more interesting at its core, while the design and pacing of X-2's combat got the edge from me in that regard).

Given other impressions that I've picked up regarding the game (namely in how the skill system is given more emphasis for effective progress against bosses as opposed to strict levelling), I'm probably going to give this game a shot sometime when I have the ability to invest a good 10-20 hours into it over the course of a few days to get a good feel for the combat and other mechanics. Perhaps in context, the pacing of the combat may not be as jarring as some of the videos show it to be, but that's something I'll only be able to see when I play the game.

Skylock00

Nah, there's no need to apologize. I just didn't like the tone this topic was taking, because I've heard it all a million times before, and the argument never holds any water. I never played Etrian Odyssey so unfortunately, I can't offer anything intelligent about that one, but I agree on FFX and FFX-2. I liked the Sphere Grid in X, and I was once again reminded just how different every FF since VI had been.

As for Lost Odyssey, I'd just like to provide my early impressions for you or anyone else who might be interested-

First of all, being a writer, I'm consistently disappointed by the lack of decent writing in the video game realm. It IS getting better, and I can always turn to the likes of Kojima and MGS for a compelling and well-done story. But it should definitely be popping up more in the role-playing realm, because...well, because it makes sense. If I had gotten into Mass Effect, I'd like to think that one had some promise for solid writing and character development, because I've heard nothing but good things. However, it's very rare for me to find something in a game where I say to myself, "wow, that's actually pretty good." I said that tonight with Lost Odyssey.

During the game, you will unlock memories for Kaim, and those are relayed in standard prose form with some nice ambiance provided by blurred - yet artistic - images and a bit of fitting background music. Basically, you read these dreams, and they are surprisingly lengthy. But even more surprisingly, they're written with a clean, professional hand, with very few wasted words and an exhibited skill for conveying emotion. These mini-stories are very well done, and I also think Mistwalker took the correct approach in their delivery. They don't attach faces and voices to the memories, which in turn gives them the appropriate sensation of distance. We are, after all, learning about the memories of an individual, so of course we should get that information in a removed, second-hand manner. I enjoy reading, and I think this is very well done.

The story is going along well so far. Most will complain there's not enough combat, and after two and a half hours, I suppose I can agree. But I have spent a good deal of time exploring, and I've liked the cut-scenes thanks to good voice-acting, although I get the sneaking suspicion there's an entirely different writer behind the dialogue and the dream sequences written as fiction. I've just started to scratch the surface of both the Skill Link system and the Ring Assembly, but both seem straightforward and - hopefully - nicely implemented. There are some technical difficulties in the jerkiness of a few of the cut-scenes, the soundtrack isn't great (so far), and I'm not a fan of the basic control when just running around with Kaim (it's far too loose). I also haven't had enough time with the Ring system in battle, but I certainly would've liked more definition in both rings, so it'd be easier to get the timing right. But all in all, I think Lost Odyssey has a lot of promise, and I'm happy with the purchase. I'm not sure exactly what it is you're looking for, but I think it is important to remind everyone that they should enjoy stories and reading in general. It's not exactly Joyce or Milton, but for video games, the writing is quite impressive so far.

Done for now. :)

I agree on FFX and FFX-2. I liked the Sphere Grid in X, and I was once again reminded just how different every FF since VI had been.

fathoms_basic

That, in conjunction with features like being able to speed up the game on the field to offset the slower pacing at points would've definitely been appreciated if this version of the game was released overseas.

Hell, I'd rebuy the game and try it again just to have at the new class system.

Otherwise, thanks for the impressions on LO, which seems to reinforce some of what I've heard, and some of my concerns about things. I'm more interested in hearing more about the ring and skill link system, especially.

Now, I'm not accusing any individual here, but speaking in general, but I really don't understand why Lost Odyssey is being criticised for lacking innovation or being too traditional. Are these the same group that criticised FFXII for being too different, and the same who praised Dragon Quest VIII for keeping with the traditional and old school mechanics?

Anyway, Lost Odyssey does a lot of things right. Blue Dragon's disappointment is understandable, but it seems like Lost Odyssey is what a JRPG should be about: a good story (better than most JRPGs, and I mean this with the sincerity of my heart), better characters (much better than FFX, XII, or Blue Dragon in my opinion), a mature story-line, great graphics, and a long quest (unlike Mass Effect's 12 hour single player campaign). It does a lot of things right based on what I'm hearing about, yet it's being criticised for not pushing the envelope or doing something original to the genre.

I think Gamespot's review says it right when they say some patience and commitment to play this game goes a long way and it's rewarding. This shouldn't be a complaint or a criticism to this game IMO, because as a JRPG player since FFIII on the SNES, every RPG takes patience and commitment to play. That should be a given. It should be expected. We should be used to loading times by now (nothing can get worse than Skies of Arcadia), or turn-based battles, random encounters etc. Last time I checked, Dragon Quest VIII's battle system is the most traditional you can get, and even though it's my favorite JRPG of last-gen, I even admit the game can get boring as hell. But I stuck through it and got a rewarding experience.

Take it from me, but to be honest, every JRPG or WRPG are boring, boring, boring, slow, sluggish games that take lots and lots of patience, commitment, and time to play through. It doesn't matter if its KoTOR, Oblivion, FFXII, FFX, Dragon Quest VIII, or Lost Odyssey, RPGs is a very boring genre. But why do we still love it and play it religiously? Because something about sticking through it is rewarding.

I think Lost Odyssey is being overly criticised. Like I said, it does a lot of things right for a JRPG and it seems like a great game with a story that's actually something worth caring about. After wading through a sludge of stupid shallow JRPGs ( believe me, I played them all), a mature storyline that's a traditional JRPG should be refreshing. So I'm for Sakaguchi and Lost Odyssey. I just hope RPG fans give it a fair shake and see that it really could be a great experience. I think it's waaaaaay better and stronger than FFX just from what I'm hearing about it, and last time I remember, FFX was quite traditional, not to mention way to linear, and cookie cutter characters and story. And it's made by the same guy.

People complained about FFXII. And now Lost Odyssey is being criticised for being to traditional. This really makes no sense to me.

I think Lost Odyssey is being overly criticised. Like I said, it does a lot of things right for a JRPG and it seems like a great game with a story that's actually something worth caring about. After wading through a sludge of stupid shallow JRPGs ( believe me, I played them all), a mature storyline that's a traditional JRPG should be refreshing. So I'm for Sakaguchi and Lost Odyssey. I just hope RPG fans give it a fair shake and see that it really could be a great experience. I think it's waaaaaay better and stronger than FFX just from what I'm hearing about it, and last time I remember, FFX was quite traditional, not to mention way to linear, and cookie cutter characters and story. And it's made by the same guy.ASK_Story

Even with a much deeper, mature story, that's not really what I'm looking for in an RPG, so it irks me a bit when people go on and on about the story in Lost Odyssey, simply because I don't think it's going to matter as much to me.

Marcus: If Atlus had made this game, you'd be raving about it. All the "l33t" RPG fans like yourself would just "understand" how great it is while all the "casual" RPGers have no clue because it's not called Final Fantasy. Good God...you are WAY too predictable.

fathoms_basic

Fathoms, if anyone here acts "l33t" its you. Oh that's right, I forgot, anyone who levels legitimate criticism at anything Final Fantasy is just acting "l33t" and just hates on popular games right?:roll:

If you prefer to demand less for your money, that's your business, but don't make it everyone else's. Your antagonizing nature is getting really old. Oh by the way, I didn't drag Final Fantasy into this discussion, so I don't know why you're making an issue of it. But hey, it wouldn't be the first time you talked out of your ass just to troll on someone.

[QUOTE="ASK_Story"]I think Lost Odyssey is being overly criticised. Like I said, it does a lot of things right for a JRPG and it seems like a great game with a story that's actually something worth caring about. After wading through a sludge of stupid shallow JRPGs ( believe me, I played them all), a mature storyline that's a traditional JRPG should be refreshing. So I'm for Sakaguchi and Lost Odyssey. I just hope RPG fans give it a fair shake and see that it really could be a great experience. I think it's waaaaaay better and stronger than FFX just from what I'm hearing about it, and last time I remember, FFX was quite traditional, not to mention way to linear, and cookie cutter characters and story. And it's made by the same guy.Skylock00

Even with a much deeper, mature story, that's not really what I'm looking for in an RPG, so it irks me a bit when people go on and on about the story in Lost Odyssey, simply because I don't think it's going to matter as much to me.

Of course, I'm speaking in general and I understand everyone has their own way of enjoying RPGs or any game. For example, as for me, what interests me most are the characters. Than I look for the story. Than gameplay. As long as one of these categories gets it right, then I'm all for playing it.

I'm sure Lost Odyssey isn't a perfect game, but I still think it's doing a lot of things right for a JRPG.

During the game, you will unlock memories for Kaim, and those are relayed in standard prose form with some nice ambiance provided by blurred - yet artistic - images and a bit of fitting background music. Basically, you read these dreams, and they are surprisingly lengthy. But even more surprisingly, they're written with a clean, professional hand, with very few wasted words and an exhibited skill for conveying emotion. These mini-stories are very well done, and I also think Mistwalker took the correct approach in their delivery. They don't attach faces and voices to the memories, which in turn gives them the appropriate sensation of distance. We are, after all, learning about the memories of an individual, so of course we should get that information in a removed, second-hand manner. I enjoy reading, and I think this is very well done.

fathoms_basic

Anyways, back to playing.

[QUOTE="CarnageHeart"][QUOTE="VegetaJr"][QUOTE="MarcusAntonius"]

This game is sheer mediocrity and I'm outraged that there are developers out there who insist on turning back the clock. I may pick this up when it hits the budget rack, but this game does not deserve its price tag, I will not reward trash. So much for next gen gaming.

Mistwalker is a flop.

Ash2X

If turning back the clock means I beat my first JRPG since FFX, I'm all for it. Because all attempts so far to have the clock move forward have left me uninterested and bored. JRPGs are a flop.

The attempts of the defenders of Lost Odssey to compare it to the likes of FFX are hilarious. I've seen Lost Odyssey's painful load times and nonsensical animations (characters yawning and scratching their butts as monsters charge towards them makes little objective sense, though they might be mirroring the boredom of the players). It probably isn't the slowest paced, slowest loading rpg ever made, but its certainly high on the list.

Let me guess..you´re a Final Fantasy Fan,aren´t you?Maybe one who started with the direct downfall of the series (FFX)...that´s a typical reaction for Fanboys who see other games who make the almost same stuff better...

I've been playing jrpgs Phantasy Star 1. Random battles (getting jumped by giants on an open plain) and ten second loads on the X360 make no sense but if you wish to try to defend the indefensible by making up falsehoods about both the game and those who point out that it is sewage, go right ahead.

I am mildly curious about your statement that FFX is the direct downfall of the series, but I don't really respect your opinion that much, so whatever weak rationale you bleat out will probably leave me unmoved.

I think it´s somehow funny that everyone get so angry about the loading times and random battles...I know a lot of games who had not been worse because of small stuff like that.FFX,DQ8,Suikoden V...but if the game seems on one Level with FF it´s the most horrible thing ever happend.And on the 360.If someone whould at least complain about the Storyline,Dungeon-design or something important which really makes a RPG really worse and not worth playing...That´s why I think that this game,even without playing it until now,is a victim of fanboys.But I don´t see any problem in the negative points because they didn´t hurt other games that much that I cared if the rest was great.

I think it´s somehow funny that everyone get so angry about the loading times and random battles...I know a lot of games who had not been worse because of small stuff like that.FFX,DQ8,Suikoden V...but if the game seems on one Level with FF it´s the most horrible thing ever happend.And on the 360.If someone whould at least complain about the Storyline,Dungeon-design or something important which really makes a RPG really worse and not worth playing...That´s why I think that this game,even without playing it until now,is a victim of fanboys.But I don´t see any problem in the negative points because they didn´t hurt other games that much that I cared if the rest was great.

Ash2X

I have owned FFX, DQ8 and Suikoden 5 (though I confess I gave up on Suikoden 5 after 20 hours without beating it), and none of them had ten second loads before random battles. So we've established that in addition to Lost Odyssey, there is a long list of jrpgs you haven't played.

Given your ignorance of the genre, its unsurprising that you are impressed by Lost Odyssey. Don't be shocked and horrified that people who are actually familiar with jrpgs are unimpressed by such a backwards-looking, technologically unimpressive game though, especially one which is selling for 60 bucks (if it were selling for 30 or 40 bucks...).

[QUOTE="Ash2X"]

I think it´s somehow funny that everyone get so angry about the loading times and random battles...I know a lot of games who had not been worse because of small stuff like that.FFX,DQ8,Suikoden V...but if the game seems on one Level with FF it´s the most horrible thing ever happend.And on the 360.If someone whould at least complain about the Storyline,Dungeon-design or something important which really makes a RPG really worse and not worth playing...That´s why I think that this game,even without playing it until now,is a victim of fanboys.But I don´t see any problem in the negative points because they didn´t hurt other games that much that I cared if the rest was great.

CarnageHeart

I have owned FFX, DQ8 and Suikoden 5 (though I confess I gave up on Suikoden 5 after 20 hours without beating it), and none of them had ten second loads before random battles. So we've established that in addition to Lost Odyssey, there is a long list of jrpgs you haven't played.

Given your ignorance of the genre, its unsurprising that you are impressed by Lost Odyssey. Don't be shocked and horrified that people who are actually familiar with jrpgs are unimpressed by such a backwards-looking, technologically unimpressive game though, especially one which is selling for 60 bucks (if it were selling for 30 or 40 bucks...).

Ignorance?No.I played every JRPG I could get and I think the older RPGs are better.Simply because it is more fun.I don´t care much about the graphics and small technical issues because there is more to a RPG then the technical stuff.It´s about gameplay.I´m not really impressed by Lost Odissey from a technical sight,but I´ve seen and played a damn lot of RPGs and I think this one gets me with a interesting Story and Atmosphere.And it looks like good gameplay,that´s all.

Crying about paying for a game full pice which is new and not a new Gears of War or CoD4 from a graphical point of sight is totally ok for me if the game is good.If you care more about the so said 10 Seconds loading times then anything else,so be it.If you don´t really want the "classic"-style of gameplay,don´t buy it.I don´t care,but don´t say I´m an ignorant of the genre just because I prefer games like Lunar,Final Fantasy 5 or Skies of Arcadia over FFX and most show-off RPGs without much of a core like FFX,FFX-2 or FFXII.I´m not totally against innovation,but most wanna-be innovative stuff weren´t really fun after 10h anymore and just getting on my nerves or proven to be unneccessary.Im still a bit angry that the Costume-System I liked so much didn´t really worked out in FFX-2...well the game was horrible and thin and I never finished it.

BTW I gave up on Suikoden V pretty fast,I wanted to play Suikoden III first but I have a lack of motivation since I got it,without a special reason.Suikoden V felt slow-paced maybe because I had MANY random battles in the beginning and the Fighting itself felt a bit slow,but I don´t know if that´s the rule.I don´t have,as I said,anything agains random battles at all as long as they´re not totally overdone and overcounted.But after all I will play it someday.Just don´t have the mood right now.

[QUOTE="CarnageHeart"][QUOTE="Ash2X"]

I think it´s somehow funny that everyone get so angry about the loading times and random battles...I know a lot of games who had not been worse because of small stuff like that.FFX,DQ8,Suikoden V...but if the game seems on one Level with FF it´s the most horrible thing ever happend.And on the 360.If someone whould at least complain about the Storyline,Dungeon-design or something important which really makes a RPG really worse and not worth playing...That´s why I think that this game,even without playing it until now,is a victim of fanboys.But I don´t see any problem in the negative points because they didn´t hurt other games that much that I cared if the rest was great.

Ash2X

I have owned FFX, DQ8 and Suikoden 5 (though I confess I gave up on Suikoden 5 after 20 hours without beating it), and none of them had ten second loads before random battles. So we've established that in addition to Lost Odyssey, there is a long list of jrpgs you haven't played.

Given your ignorance of the genre, its unsurprising that you are impressed by Lost Odyssey. Don't be shocked and horrified that people who are actually familiar with jrpgs are unimpressed by such a backwards-looking, technologically unimpressive game though, especially one which is selling for 60 bucks (if it were selling for 30 or 40 bucks...).

Ignorance?No.I played every JRPG I could get and I think the older RPGs are better.Simply because it is more fun.I don´t care much about the graphics and small technical issues because there is more to a RPG then the technical stuff.It´s about gameplay.I´m not really impressed by Lost Odissey from a technical sight,but I´ve seen and played a damn lot of RPGs and I think this one gets me with a interesting Story and Atmosphere.And it looks like good gameplay,that´s all.

Crying about paying for a game full pice which is new and not a new Gears of War or CoD4 from a graphical point of sight is totally ok for me if the game is good.If you care more about the so said 10 Seconds loading times then anything else,so be it.If you don´t really want the "classic"-style of gameplay,don´t buy it.I don´t care,but don´t say I´m an ignorant of the genre just because I prefer games like Lunar,Final Fantasy 5 or Skies of Arcadia over FFX and most show-off RPGs without much of a core like FFX,FFX-2 or FFXII.I´m not totally against innovation,but most wanna-be innovative stuff weren´t really fun after 10h anymore and just getting on my nerves or proven to be unneccessary.Im still a bit angry that the Costume-System I liked so much didn´t really worked out in FFX-2...well the game was horrible and thin and I never finished it.

BTW I gave up on Suikoden V pretty fast,I wanted to play Suikoden III first but I have a lack of motivation since I got it,without a special reason.Suikoden V felt slow-paced maybe because I had MANY random battles in the beginning and the Fighting itself felt a bit slow,but I don´t know if that´s the rule.I don´t have,as I said,anything agains random battles at all as long as they´re not totally overdone and overcounted.But after all I will play it someday.Just don´t have the mood right now.

[/QUOTE

FF5 was really well done but Skies of Arcadia is one of the worst pieces of garbage it has ever been my misfortune to play (far too many random encounters, boring combat, forgettable characters, weak story) so if you somehow confuse it with quality we'll have to agree to disagree. Lunar was solid, but its two strong points were the localization (WD was putting care into localizations when most rpg makers were content with Japanlish) and the music (its gameplay wasn't anything special).

Having been spoiled by the fast loads of well, the vast majority of modern rpgs and the quick pacing of the combat in Persona 3, I'm underwhelmed when a sloppy, slow paced $60 travesty like LO comes along.

[QUOTE="fathoms_basic"]

During the game, you will unlock memories for Kaim, and those are relayed in standard prose form with some nice ambiance provided by blurred - yet artistic - images and a bit of fitting background music. Basically, you read these dreams, and they are surprisingly lengthy. But even more surprisingly, they're written with a clean, professional hand, with very few wasted words and an exhibited skill for conveying emotion. These mini-stories are very well done, and I also think Mistwalker took the correct approach in their delivery. They don't attach faces and voices to the memories, which in turn gives them the appropriate sensation of distance. We are, after all, learning about the memories of an individual, so of course we should get that information in a removed, second-hand manner. I enjoy reading, and I think this is very well done.

EazyB

Anyways, back to playing.

I'm glad to see someone else appreciates it. I guess it's the kind of thing that will either enhance or detract from one's enjoyment of the game, and for me, it greatly enhances it.

[QUOTE="fathoms_basic"]

During the game, you will unlock memories for Kaim, and those are relayed in standard prose form with some nice ambiance provided by blurred - yet artistic - images and a bit of fitting background music. Basically, you read these dreams, and they are surprisingly lengthy. But even more surprisingly, they're written with a clean, professional hand, with very few wasted words and an exhibited skill for conveying emotion. These mini-stories are very well done, and I also think Mistwalker took the correct approach in their delivery. They don't attach faces and voices to the memories, which in turn gives them the appropriate sensation of distance. We are, after all, learning about the memories of an individual, so of course we should get that information in a removed, second-hand manner. I enjoy reading, and I think this is very well done.

EazyB

Anyways, back to playing.

Trigger Happy Halo junkies or nonsensical plot loving anime freaks would find those pointless.

I however, like you can appreciate the power of written word in telling the story that is put forth in each of those passages.

It might have been nice to have them narrated. That would have been cool.

FF is still one of the best RPGs and the best JRPG. FFX wasn't a downfall nor mediocre nor anything of what some of you have mentioned here... It had a better customisation system than the crappy one in FF7, better battle system than all FF games except for 12, FFX battle system and exp gaining system, party members switch and all that made it fast paced and I doubt any of those who call it slow paced have played it because once you unlock most nodes on the sphere grid, battles don't take that long! If they still take long perhaps you should check the ATB system and change it to Active instead of Wait. FFX lasted for 200 hours for me.

FF is still one of the best RPGs and the best JRPG. FFX wasn't a downfall nor mediocre nor anything of what some of you have mentioned here... It had a better customisation system than the crappy one in FF7, better battle system than all FF games except for 12, FFX battle system and exp gaining system, party members switch and all that made it fast paced and I doubt any of those who call it slow paced have played it because once you unlock most nodes on the sphere grid, battles don't take that long! If they still take long perhaps you should check the ATB system and change it to Active instead of Wait. FFX lasted for 200 hours for me.

gamingqueen

I'd disagree about the Materia system being worse than the sphere. Only different. I remember the many insane combos like 4 casts of Fire 3 at 1.5 the power, which drained life and MP. The materia Junction was deep. The sphere grid was overpowering at some time, but more useful at the start.

Either way, both games were great.

[QUOTE="gamingqueen"]

FF is still one of the best RPGs and the best JRPG. FFX wasn't a downfall nor mediocre nor anything of what some of you have mentioned here... It had a better customisation system than the crappy one in FF7, better battle system than all FF games except for 12, FFX battle system and exp gaining system, party members switch and all that made it fast paced and I doubt any of those who call it slow paced have played it because once you unlock most nodes on the sphere grid, battles don't take that long! If they still take long perhaps you should check the ATB system and change it to Active instead of Wait. FFX lasted for 200 hours for me.

SemiMaster

I'd disagree about the Materia system being worse than the sphere. Only different. I remember the many insane combos like 4 casts of Fire 3 at 1.5 the power, which drained life and MP. The materia Junction was deep. The sphere grid was overpowering at some time, but more useful at the start.

Either way, both games were great.

overpowering? Did you beat penance? Oh yeah you people missed the international version...

[QUOTE="SemiMaster"][QUOTE="gamingqueen"]

FF is still one of the best RPGs and the best JRPG. FFX wasn't a downfall nor mediocre nor anything of what some of you have mentioned here... It had a better customisation system than the crappy one in FF7, better battle system than all FF games except for 12, FFX battle system and exp gaining system, party members switch and all that made it fast paced and I doubt any of those who call it slow paced have played it because once you unlock most nodes on the sphere grid, battles don't take that long! If they still take long perhaps you should check the ATB system and change it to Active instead of Wait. FFX lasted for 200 hours for me.

gamingqueen

I'd disagree about the Materia system being worse than the sphere. Only different. I remember the many insane combos like 4 casts of Fire 3 at 1.5 the power, which drained life and MP. The materia Junction was deep. The sphere grid was overpowering at some time, but more useful at the start.

Either way, both games were great.

overpowering? Did you beat penance? Oh yeah you people missed the international version...

Yep, I did miss it. Perhaps why it was overpowering. I dunno.

Now, I'm not accusing any individual here, but speaking in general, but I really don't understand why Lost Odyssey is being criticised for lacking innovation or being too traditional. Are these the same group that criticised FFXII for being too different, and the same who praised Dragon Quest VIII for keeping with the traditional and old school mechanics?

Anyway, Lost Odyssey does a lot of things right. Blue Dragon's disappointment is understandable, but it seems like Lost Odyssey is what a JRPG should be about: a good story (better than most JRPGs, and I mean this with the sincerity of my heart), better characters (much better than FFX, XII, or Blue Dragon in my opinion), a mature story-line, great graphics, and a long quest (unlike Mass Effect's 12 hour single player campaign). It does a lot of things right based on what I'm hearing about, yet it's being criticised for not pushing the envelope or doing something original to the genre.

I think Gamespot's review says it right when they say some patience and commitment to play this game goes a long way and it's rewarding. This shouldn't be a complaint or a criticism to this game IMO, because as a JRPG player since FFIII on the SNES, every RPG takes patience and commitment to play. That should be a given. It should be expected. We should be used to loading times by now (nothing can get worse than Skies of Arcadia), or turn-based battles, random encounters etc. Last time I checked, Dragon Quest VIII's battle system is the most traditional you can get, and even though it's my favorite JRPG of last-gen, I even admit the game can get boring as hell. But I stuck through it and got a rewarding experience.

Take it from me, but to be honest, every JRPG or WRPG are boring, boring, boring, slow, sluggish games that take lots and lots of patience, commitment, and time to play through. It doesn't matter if its KoTOR, Oblivion, FFXII, FFX, Dragon Quest VIII, or Lost Odyssey, RPGs is a very boring genre. But why do we still love it and play it religiously? Because something about sticking through it is rewarding.

I think Lost Odyssey is being overly criticised. Like I said, it does a lot of things right for a JRPG and it seems like a great game with a story that's actually something worth caring about. After wading through a sludge of stupid shallow JRPGs ( believe me, I played them all), a mature storyline that's a traditional JRPG should be refreshing. So I'm for Sakaguchi and Lost Odyssey. I just hope RPG fans give it a fair shake and see that it really could be a great experience. I think it's waaaaaay better and stronger than FFX just from what I'm hearing about it, and last time I remember, FFX was quite traditional, not to mention way to linear, and cookie cutter characters and story. And it's made by the same guy.

People complained about FFXII. And now Lost Odyssey is being criticised for being to traditional. This really makes no sense to me.

ASK_Story

Well said. Kudos and a cookie. :)

Thing is, you can't satisfy everyone all the time. But I really despise those who go out of their way to find fault; those who focus on the negatives rather than the positives. Obviously, if there's more negative than positive, that makes sense, but this isn't usually the case. So far, I don't see Lost Odyssey even beginning to approach FFX, but I still have high hopes for LO.

By the way, if you love the genre, how can you call RPGs "boring?" That's a very subjective term, and why would you want to keep playing something you find boring? That part confused me. :?

[QUOTE="MarcusAntonius"][QUOTE="fathoms_basic"]

Marcus: If Atlus had made this game, you'd be raving about it. All the "l33t" RPG fans like yourself would just "understand" how great it is while all the "casual" RPGers have no clue because it's not called Final Fantasy. Good God...you are WAY too predictable.

fathoms_basic

Fathoms, if anyone here acts "l33t" its you. Oh that's right, I forgot, anyone who levels legitimate criticism at anything Final Fantasy is just acting "l33t" and just hates on popular games right?:roll:

If you prefer to demand less for your money, that's your business, but don't make it everyone else's. Your antagonizing nature is getting really old. Oh by the way, I didn't drag Final Fantasy into this discussion, so I don't know why you're making an issue of it. But hey, it wouldn't be the first time you talked out of your ass just to troll on someone.

I doubt anything you've ever said in your rampant bashings of FF and mainstream RPGs can be considered "legitimate." You are predictable because if the game might appeal to mainstream gamers, you will immediately condemn it. This is the very definition of elitism, and it's irritating. In no way is what I said antagonistic, and I actually offered some useful comments about the game, rather than your obscenely negative words that in no way reflected the quality of the game. Have you ever wondered why so many critics always disagree with you? Ever wondered why you're in the minority? You probably enjoy that.

...just another way of proving to yourself you're better than the majority. I've been around gaming far longer than you, and I know all about this way of thinking. It's annoying, and to come in here and say things about LO that have no basis whatsoever - and you refused to provide any evidence or basis - is both lame and unhelpful. Take it or leave it, champ.

Again, you speak out of total ignorance. You don't anything about me, my tastes in gaming, nor how long I've been gaming. But frankly, I have better things to do than to whip out my gaming credentials and since you insist upon talking out of your ass, there really isn't much room for a rational discussion.

As far as evidence or basis, the proof is in the reviews and gameplay trailers, they're put out there for a reason, so take it or leave it chump, er, I mean champ. Great, now here comes the cliche riddled rant about how I'm a corporate gamer that only purchases games with high review scores, let me save you the trouble there.:lol:

Just because someone doesn't worship at the altar of FF VII doesn't mean that they're bashing everything "mainstream."

If I were to name a FF game which was a downfall then I'd choose FF12. The sounrtrack, the theme, the story... everything it had expcet for the battle system wasn't as good... FF used to bring the new stuff and every jrpg was inspired by it.. characters' looks, personalities, themes, silly stories... everything that made FF so popular was missing in ff12. gamingqueen

As a big Matsuno fan I enjoyed FF12 quite a bit. It felt quite a bit like Vagrant Story, which was hands down my favorite PS1 rpg.

[QUOTE="gamingqueen"]If I were to name a FF game which was a downfall then I'd choose FF12. The sounrtrack, the theme, the story... everything it had expcet for the battle system wasn't as good... FF used to bring the new stuff and every jrpg was inspired by it.. characters' looks, personalities, themes, silly stories... everything that made FF so popular was missing in ff12. CarnageHeart

As a big Matsuno fan I enjoyed FF12 quite a bit. It felt quite a bit like Vagrant Story, which was hands down my favorite PS1 rpg.

Yeah he did a great job I guess.. I mean being called in the middle of production and asked to complete the project... I wanted to see that sky-pirate theme so bad... But if it wasn't for matsuno we wouldn't get the new battle system...

If I were to name a FF game which was a downfall then I'd choose FF12. The sounrtrack, the theme, the story... everything it had expcet for the battle system wasn't as good... FF used to bring the new stuff and every jrpg was inspired by it.. characters' looks, personalities, themes, silly stories... everything that made FF so popular was missing in ff12. gamingqueen

I don't really know if its fair to say that there is any one particular "downfall" of FF. In a long running series there are bound to be a few stinkers (II, V, VII, and IX for example) when you figure the projects are changing many different hands, therefore there will be a different vision for each finished product. FF has long demonstrated why it has sustained such longevity throughout the years. Sure, its homoginized in certain aspects (some for the sake of continuity), but its still a top quality product.

FF XII was a huge step forward for the series, one that I would like to see continue.

[QUOTE="CarnageHeart"]

[QUOTE="gamingqueen"]If I were to name a FF game which was a downfall then I'd choose FF12. The sounrtrack, the theme, the story... everything it had expcet for the battle system wasn't as good... FF used to bring the new stuff and every jrpg was inspired by it.. characters' looks, personalities, themes, silly stories... everything that made FF so popular was missing in ff12. gamingqueen

As a big Matsuno fan I enjoyed FF12 quite a bit. It felt quite a bit like Vagrant Story, which was hands down my favorite PS1 rpg.

Yeah he did a great job I guess.. I mean being called in the middle of production and asked to complete the project... I wanted to see that sky-pirate theme so bad... But if it wasn't for matsuno we wouldn't get the new battle system...

Well,that´s a big plus of FFXII...I love the design,but it didn´t really fit.I whould have prefered a Vagrant Story 2.I think FFXII´s Battle System seemed like a cross of Parasite Eve amd Vagrant Story,but I think both are better...actually even if I liked VS I think I couldn´t expect more from FFXII Story-wise...the Soundtrack wasn´t bad,but forgettable.But since the Soundtrack should support gaming it was ok but I whouldn´t buy it.