Jeff's Termination Discussion Thread - Please Keep ALL Related Discussion Here

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Lanezy

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#151 Lanezy
Member since 2004 • 2438 Posts
[QUOTE="dvader654"][QUOTE="GT90"][QUOTE="Lanezy"]

[QUOTE="GT90"][QUOTE="Lanezy"]Just out of curiosity, did anyone catch the latest tournament TV? I would just like to know if Jeff was mentioned during it's live broadcast.GT90

Jeff was not mentioned at all during the Tournament

Who hosted?

It was Ryan Mcdonald and Kevin Van Ord plus a guy from namco

Soul Calibur Legends to get a 9.0 confirmed. :P

It was interesting to watch beacause it looked like Kevin really wanted to say something about it.

Yeah, I would have liked to have seen it. I bet it was hard on all of them, except maybe for the Namco guy :P

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FreyarHunter

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#152 FreyarHunter
Member since 2003 • 2098 Posts
This is now a Slashdot Article. Publicity.. yay...
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SpecterX3

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#153 SpecterX3
Member since 2005 • 998 Posts
Tchyo from Penny Arcade finally made a comment.
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LaZyBoY1o5

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#155 LaZyBoY1o5
Member since 2003 • 1033 Posts
From www.penny-arcade.com
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SpecterX3

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#156 SpecterX3
Member since 2005 • 998 Posts
You do know the comic was one of the original rumour starters right?
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deactivated-61a196f38f0e1

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#157 deactivated-61a196f38f0e1
Member since 2005 • 4632 Posts

I through with GameSpot, I've been toying with the idea of leaving recently, and I think that it would be a good idea to finally leave. Thier reviews havn't been very good lately, at least in my opinion, and things have been going downhill since the new rating system was put into place.

I guess I have enjoyed my 2+ years here, but it is time to throw in the towel. The firing of Jeff really just set this all over the edge. I'm done with this site.

Goodbye my fellow ex-gamespotters.....

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FreyarHunter

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#158 FreyarHunter
Member since 2003 • 2098 Posts
We've seen that comic so many times.. I actually have that on my desktop as the background.
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SpecterX3

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#160 SpecterX3
Member since 2005 • 998 Posts
GameDaily Article
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Sniper

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#161 Sniper
Member since 2002 • 235 Posts
According to CNET, Jeff Gerstmann wasn't fired because of his K&L review, but because of multiple instances of negative tone? Right. If CNET was displeased with his tone in the past, why did they promote him to editorial director after Greg Kasavin left? Companies generally don't promote people they consider to be loose canons. As a former magazine editor who no longer wants to be a magazine editor because I was driven crazy by advertising sales staff who constantly made my job an exercise in frustration, I can easily surmise Gerstmann was fired for honestly expressing his opinion. Sadly, that's the way publishing dysfunctions. Editorial integrity is easy to maintain when money isn't an issue. But when publications become popular because of that bedrock editorial quality, they become victims of their own success. Editorial bedrock always crumbles under the sales and marketing avalanche.
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mtheprof

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#162 mtheprof
Member since 2005 • 26 Posts

Your GameSpot Total Access subscription has been successfully cancelled, and your membership will not be renewed.

However, you can continue to enjoy GameSpot subscriber benefits until the end of your subscription period. Afterwards, your status will be reverted to a GameSpot registered account, our free level of membership.

Best words I ever read

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FreyarHunter

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#163 FreyarHunter
Member since 2003 • 2098 Posts

Your GameSpot Total Access subscription has been successfully cancelled, and your membership will not be renewed.

However, you can continue to enjoy GameSpot subscriber benefits until the end of your subscription period. Afterwards, your status will be reverted to a GameSpot registered account, our free level of membership.

Best words I ever read

mtheprof

And the only set of words I've been getting tired of reading.

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jamdude

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#164 jamdude
Member since 2003 • 29 Posts

Latest info depicting the bigger picturearound this incident:

The main problem here is that no one in the entire editorial team was aware that this was about to occur, least of all Gerstmann. We're very clear in our review policies that all reviews are vetted by the entire team before they go live - everything that goes up is the product of an entire team's output. Our freelancers are especially guilty of making snide comments, but those are always yanked before the review goes live, because everyone in the office reads these reviews and makes sure they're up to our standards before they get put up.
If there was a problem with his reviews, then it would've been a problem with the entire team. Firing him without telling anyone implies that anyone else on this team can be fired at the drop of a hat as well, because none of us are writing any differently or meaner or less professionally than we were two years ago before the management changed. I'm sure management wants to spin this as the G-Man being unprofessional to take away from the egg on their face that results after a ten-year employee gets locked out of his office and told to leave the premises and then no one communicates anything to us about it until the next day.


Also, despite the fact that this occured two weeks ago, there was no way they were going to fire him then; the last big games didn't come out until just before Thanksgiving, and there was no doubt that management knew that the rest of the reviewers would refuse to write any reviews after his termination, which is indeed what is happening. After thanksgiving nothing major comes out in games; everything is either before thanksgiving or comes out in January. They waited to fire him until they knew that any strike or walkout by the rest of the staff wouldn't have much of an effect.
Also, keep in mind that these salespeople do have axes to grind with editorial. I know a lot of people busted their asses to get not only this large deal with Eidos done, but also other huge ad deals. The salespeople and the marketers are the ones who have to deal with the publishers when a heavily-advertised game gets a bad review, so obviously they like it if every game that comes out is peachy keen and gets a 9.0 or above. If a salesperson knows anything about unprofessional review practices, then that says a lot about the management team that we have in place because not a single other member of the editorial team had heard word one about this until Jeff was fired. Surely site management would want to let us know about their concerns before firing the most senior staff member and one of the most respected game critics in the industry? If they're sharing their concerns with the salespeople and not with us then that says a lot about their priorities.

No one wants to be named because no one wants to get **** fired! This management team has shown what they're willing to do. Jeff had ten years in and was **** locked out of his office and told to leave the building.

What you might not be aware of is that GS is well known for appealing mostly to hardcore gamers. The mucky-mucks have been doing a lot of "brand research" over the last year or so and indicating that they want to reach out to more casual gamers. Our last executive editor, Greg Kasavin, left to go to EA, and he was replaced by a suit, Josh Larson, who had no editorial experience and was only involved on the business side of things. Over the last year there has been an increasing amount of pressure to allow the advertising teams to have more of a say in the editorial process; we've started having to give our sales team heads-ups when a game is getting a low score, for instance, so that they can let the advertisers know that before a review goes up. Other publishers have started giving us notes involving when our reviews can go up; if a game's getting a 9 or above, it can go up early; if not, it'll have to wait until after the game is on the shelves.

I was in the meeting where Josh Larson was trying to explain this firing and the guy had absolutely no response to any of the criticisms we were sending his way. He kept dodging the question, saying that there were "multiple instances of tone" in the reviews that he hadn't been happy about, but that wasn't Jeff's problem since we all vet every review. He also implied that "AAA" titles deserved more attention when they were being reviewed, which sounded to all of us that he was implying that they should get higher scores, especially since those titles are usually more highly advertised on our site.

I know that it's all about the money, and hey, I like money. I like advertising because it pays my salary. Unfortunately after Kasavin left the church-and-state separation between the sales teams and the editorial team has cracked, and with Jeff's firing I think it's clear that the management now has no interest at all in integrity and are instead looking for an editorial team that will be nicer to the advertisors.

When companies make games as downright contemptible as Kane and Lynch, they deserve to be called on it. I guess you'll have to go to Onion or a smaller site for objective reviews now, because everyone at GS now thinks that if they give a low score to a high-profile game, they'll be **** Everyone's **** scared and we're all hoping to get Josh Larson removed from his position because no one trusts him anymore. If that doesn't happen then look for every game to be Game of the Year material at GameSpot.

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Skylock00

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#165 Skylock00
Member since 2002 • 20069 Posts
Ah, Jamdude, that's already been posted earlier, too...sorry for not telling ya. :(
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FreyarHunter

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#166 FreyarHunter
Member since 2003 • 2098 Posts
Second time I've seen that in this thread. I know new information is getting ahrd to find on the matter, but... Egh.
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CraiZE

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#167 CraiZE
Member since 2007 • 25 Posts

I have cancelled my subscription so I will only cost money to GS from now on :)

(Yes, bandwidth doesn't come free and I dont click their ads :P )

Shame on you Gamespot!

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Sushbag88

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#168 Sushbag88
Member since 2005 • 403 Posts

Your GameSpotPlus subscription has been successfully cancelled, and your membership will not be renewed.

However, you can continue to enjoy GameSpot subscriber benefits until the end of your subscription period. Afterwards, your status will be reverted to a GameSpot registered account, our free level of membership.

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SpecterX3

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#169 SpecterX3
Member since 2005 • 998 Posts

I'm probably not the firs to tell you, this just flat out sucks. Jeff was one of the most highly respected critics in gaming and he has now been officially terminated by the CNet corps. Everyone seems to be up in arms, but to win this war we cannot abandoned this site many of us call home on the internet. By all means, cancel your all access accounts, those scum in suits don't deserve a cent more of your money. Do not leave though, this is the time when no one should be leaving. You heard it from Aaron himself, they have been reading everything we are posting and they are going through this too. To strand the other editors alone against the corporate half of GameSpot is unacceptable. My fellow gamers, we must stand and fight! We must restore integrity to the name GameSpot and show those suits what we think of this. I for one will stay on this site till the bitter end, and I will never stop the fight. They can ban a few members from the site, but they can not ignore the voice of thousands.

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gifteddie

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#170 gifteddie
Member since 2007 • 567 Posts
kane and lynch is a good game and its not their fault Jeff got fired from what I heard. He should've just kept his mouth shut after the review
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gigaman299

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#171 gigaman299
Member since 2004 • 1735 Posts
What else did he do after the review?
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Anamanaman

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#172 Anamanaman
Member since 2002 • 87 Posts
Cancel Subscription
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FreyarHunter

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#173 FreyarHunter
Member since 2003 • 2098 Posts

He did, that's the thing, Gifteddie. He did keep his mouth shut after the review and was shown his locked office door.

Kane and Lynch is a good game is it? I don't believe that assessment based on what I saw on the video footage. Jeff has always had the reviews that seemed relatively on the mark with his points, at least on the write-ups. The video reviews you get a more strict time limit and what-not so it's a little harder to say everything you need to.

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ASK_Story

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#174 ASK_Story
Member since 2006 • 11455 Posts

What makes this even more sick is how he got fired. They locked him out from his own office and told him to leave the building. Not even giving him respect, damn.

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FreyarHunter

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#175 FreyarHunter
Member since 2003 • 2098 Posts
Isn't it standard to get a two-week notice?
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mikeymyer

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#176 mikeymyer
Member since 2003 • 1020 Posts
This on Kotaku "Over the last year there has been an increasing amount of pressure to allow the advertising teams to have more of a say in the editorial process; we've started having to give our sales team heads-ups when a game is getting a low score, for instance, so that they can let the advertisers know that before a review goes up. Other publishers have started giving us notes involving when our reviews can go up; if a game's getting a 9 or above, it can go up early; if not, it'll have to wait until after the game is on the shelves." So sad.
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FreyarHunter

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#177 FreyarHunter
Member since 2003 • 2098 Posts

I've had four liters of Mountain Dew... I feel like I'm going to be sick. Ech.

I keep hoping this is a terrible daydream, but each moment I hit F5 I lose a little more hope with it.

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SpecterX3

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#178 SpecterX3
Member since 2005 • 998 Posts

I've had four liters of Mountain Dew... I feel like I'm going to be sick. Ech.FreyarHunter

Please don't tell me it was...Game Fuel

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AlienQ

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#179 AlienQ
Member since 2002 • 81 Posts
Well. I can only cancel my own subscription, vow to never return (gets coat) and tell my friends to do the same, but man I hope they feel this.

I feel bad for the remaining editorial staff, it has to suck hard to see the website they worked so hard at be reduced to this - but I paid my subscription fees happily knowing I was supporting good people. But no way in hell am I going to support this kind of behaviour.

I couldn't care less why they did it, it's The Jeff! No I didn't always agree with his reviews but I ALWAYS appreciated his point of view and he made me laugh probably more than any other person on the net.

Good luck with your new casual audience, "New" Gamespot. I'm sure you can fill my spot and all the others with brain-dead consumers who'll click on all your ads and read all your marketing material disguised as reviews. Screw you.

And godspeed awesome thread. I'll see how this develops from another website, but I hope someone listens to you guys.

AlienQ
Member since Jul 15, 2002
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FreyarHunter

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#180 FreyarHunter
Member since 2003 • 2098 Posts
It isn't game fuel. Can't stand that stuff. I've just been drinking all four bottles as I've been looking over the info time and time again. I'm not going to be able to sleep tonight, making it night four.
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HiResDes

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#181 HiResDes
Member since 2004 • 5919 Posts
Wow, I didn't realize I could discuss this issue in the GGD now, sadly I think I've wasted all of my good posts in the off-topic forum where nobody could see because of the constant relentless megaposting.
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SpecterX3

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#182 SpecterX3
Member since 2005 • 998 Posts
I can't believe all these people are leaving. I mean I understand cancelling subscriptions, but I think we need to support the rest of the editorial staff. Leaving is not the answer.
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FreyarHunter

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#183 FreyarHunter
Member since 2003 • 2098 Posts
Pretty much we're just.. kind of waisting time as we head into the weekend. ~~72 hours until monday.
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Unforgiven2870

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#184 Unforgiven2870
Member since 2004 • 6386 Posts
It isn't game fuel. Can't stand that stuff. I've just been drinking all four bottles as I've been looking over the info time and time again. I'm not going to be able to sleep tonight, making it night four.FreyarHunter
How come yall dissappaeard in the other thread?
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FreyarHunter

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#185 FreyarHunter
Member since 2003 • 2098 Posts
It was just too quick, with no new info, and on top of that just.. bleh.
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kriptonzz

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#186 kriptonzz
Member since 2004 • 3637 Posts

So Jeff got canned. He's obviously not coming back, and why would he.

And WHY are people caring? I thought people didn't think he was competent at his job, so whats with the subscription cancels? Honestly i was expecting party threads.

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0rin

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#187 0rin
Member since 2006 • 7179 Posts
I can't believe this either. It seems like everything is changing these days. First the WGA writer strike, then the broadway strike, and now this, possibly leading up to an internet game review writer strike. This is shaping up to be one heck of a holiday. -_-
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SpecterX3

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#188 SpecterX3
Member since 2005 • 998 Posts
Because even if you didn't like Jeff, what CNet has done is unforgivable. They gave into money and ripped all integrity and credibility from the site.
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N3CrO

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#189 N3CrO
Member since 2003 • 25 Posts

/sigh

Later GS, you are officially removed from my Bookmarks.

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0rin

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#190 0rin
Member since 2006 • 7179 Posts

So Jeff got canned. He's obviously not coming back, and why would he.

And WHY are people caring? I thought people didn't think he was competent at his job, so whats with the subscription cancels? Honestly i was expecting party threads.

kriptonzz


Again, another person who doens't understand. Here, let me paste what I posted in off-topic:

You're missing the point of all this. This isn't an "I love Jeff and agree with everything he ever said/did", this is a "I am shocked and appalled Gamespot would even possibly allow companies to pay for good reviews". And though that is just a rumor, more and more sources are pointing to it being more than a coincidence. Most of all Gamespot/CNET's avoidance of the situation, and their careful tip-toeing around the questions being asked. I have yet to see one statement where they directly state why Jeff was fired, and directly deny that it wasn't because he gave a game they were advertising for a 6.0.

And Eidos.. don't even get me started. Like I said before. This stuff happens. People are being payed off as we speak. It happens everywhere, The White House, Hollywood, Churches, and yes, even the internet (). The thing that upsets me mostly is that Eidos/CNET didn't exercise more caution, and just went straight for the "you're fired" solution, which was retarded, and brought a TON of negativity on them. AVOIDABLE negativity. At least when The white house messes up and stuff gets leaked, its generally something silly like what happened during the Clinton administration, and not something that puts everyones opinions in jeopardy.

Thats what I think upsets most people about this, the feeling that their opinions, which they thought had been based on "professional" opinion, and insight, might just have been based off how much the games publisher/developer paid said "professional". And that the one man who stood up against this activity lost his job (if the rumors are true).

Thus, a hero is born, and an empire is getting set up for a giant public outcry/overtaking.

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Homer_Sapien

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#191 Homer_Sapien
Member since 2004 • 174 Posts

Well, this does explain a lot of reviews this year. And, I mean a LOT.

Anyways, Jeff's reviews were my favorite, since I could relate most to his reviews. Unless they get Josh Larson canned, then I'm not going to take Gamespot's reviews with a grain of salt. I'll still tune in to the Hotspot and On The Spot, but I've got a feeling tha t they will suck without Jeff now.

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HiResDes

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#192 HiResDes
Member since 2004 • 5919 Posts

So Jeff got canned. He's obviously not coming back, and why would he.

And WHY are people caring? I thought people didn't think he was competent at his job, so whats with the subscription cancels? Honestly i was expecting party threads.

kriptonzz

It is the way he got fired, or better yet the reasoning that went into his firing, I really don't wanna go into it...I feel like I'm beatin a dead horse, the whole subject has kind of soured for me...I'm just checking in for news, which I must thank Dvader ten-fold for, as he has provided me with closure on the matter as we know that any official word would just be a lie or a skew.

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Hippostrike

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#193 Hippostrike
Member since 2006 • 1014 Posts

I really never thought Jeff was spot on with his reviews(I do agree with some but not with others) but in all honesty he shouldn't have been fired. If Eidos is too childish to take criticism for their crappy games then they shouldn't be in the entertainment industry.

If the reviewers don't enjoy a title they shouldn't be forced to rise the score because they're afraid of getting their asses fired.

Good job Gamespot. You've now made my only reliable source on game quality Penny Arcade.

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DocsDeLorean

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#194 DocsDeLorean
Member since 2004 • 2532 Posts

Here is an older draft of Jeff's Wikipedia page. Check out the bottom paragraph. My gut still hurts from laughing:

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Jeff_Gerstmann&oldid=174920025

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-Renegade

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#195 -Renegade
Member since 2007 • 8340 Posts
All I got to say isI knew Halo 3 was overrated.
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maddogdw

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#196 maddogdw
Member since 2003 • 103 Posts

This is what I don't get in regards to this whole situation. To begin with, CNET/GS decided to go away from their review system being done in tenths to become more of a .5 based system. And then they fire someone who has been totally loyal for the past decade because of a review score? According to the review score itself it is a 'fair' game. That doesn't sound too harsh for the issues that were discussed in the review.

Heck, I may not have even agreed with his TP review, but I understood and respected him as a member of the community.

I would like to think that there is more to this story that we haven't heard that will clear things up. Unfortunately I doubt that will happen. From all I could see, Jeff was a good/great guy and will be missed.

My ultimate complaint is with CNET. Even though Eidos may have 'pressured' fora score, ethics says that they should stand behind their reviewers no matter what the cost. I don't see Eidos pressuring any other publication such as Game Informer (7.0/10), Play Magazine (6/10), or Game Revolution (C+) to fire thier people. Straight up, CNET has messed up big time, and I hope that Jeff gets compensated via severence or law suit royaly. If CNET wants to use someone as a scapegoat for the fiasco, then we need to blame them and not GS direct.

When the developer for Blacksite: Area 51 can come out and say that his game was effed up (viewable on Kotaku), why shouldn't reviewers have the same ability.

Shame on you CNET.

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FreyarHunter

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#197 FreyarHunter
Member since 2003 • 2098 Posts
Uh... why are people still claiming that the score is the cause for dismissal?
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Game_Druggy

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#198 Game_Druggy
Member since 2007 • 490 Posts
Wow... Just wow...
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TriangleHard

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#199 TriangleHard
Member since 2005 • 9097 Posts

I think Jeff should go and open his own unbiased review site, where he doesn't have to kiss investors "backside" in his reviews to stay employed. I bet he could find a lot of good sponsors after that much of publicity to make a living of it.

About CNET, IGN, GS, Gamespy & etc, they are all about marketing and money now.
If you want journalistic credibility, you should look elsewhere.

I'll stick to Kotaku & other gawker blogs for my reading needs.neojam

Maybe he will join escapistmagazine.com

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ASK_Story

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#200 ASK_Story
Member since 2006 • 11455 Posts

I'm not saying this will happen, but honestly, can't Jeff sue if he wanted to?

He's got a case, right?