Jeff's Termination Discussion Thread - Please Keep ALL Related Discussion Here

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veum

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#102 veum
Member since 2003 • 25 Posts

[QUOTE="fl4tlined"]so this means halo 2,3 gears of war and many gmaes made by huge money companies prolly paid to get there game a high score....dont blame only kane and lynch theres prolly all the other gmaes to ;_;FreyarHunter

But what's to say that they were bought. There's no indication other than a break in the cycle for K&L in the first place. i've played all three of those games and they are really good.

Exactly, Kane and Lynch sucks, and all the advertisment in the world wont change it, The Halo series doesn't. I've been around since the Cnet Gamesdomain times which later merged with Gamespot, and as sad as i am i wont come here anymore, I'm also never again gonna buy anything from Eidos Interactive again they've had some of my favourite titles in the past (Hitman series) But after pulling this stunt and forcing a member of gamespot to be fired, they can go f*** themselves as far as i am concerned, Do you hear that!!! You filthy stinkin rats, not even if your next title would get 10.1 (Which actually wouldnt matter, because we all know their next score will be bought) on gamespot and 101% from PC Gamer would i buy it. Actually anybody who has kane & lynch should put it in the mail and send it back to Eidos to show them what we think about their way of conducting buissnes, I know I am gonna do it.

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deactivated-5b7eeba71ed1e

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#103 deactivated-5b7eeba71ed1e
Member since 2005 • 7040 Posts

SteelAttack= Cnet's pawn?

:lol: That rivals some of the most classic funnies of the last few days.

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Shmiity

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#104 Shmiity
Member since 2006 • 6625 Posts

Kane and Lynch wasnt that good.

Jeff explained that it wasnt that good.

The advertisers wanted them to give it a good review, or they would pull advertising.

Thats like corrupting gamespot.

I say **** you gamespot, Jeff was giving the players a just review.

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Skylock00

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#106 Skylock00
Member since 2002 • 20069 Posts

SteelAttack= Cnet's pawn?

:lol: That rivals some of the most classic funnies of the last few days.

EdgecrusherAza

Why is SA the only one who isn't considered a pawn? :(

Skylock = Sad Panda

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rragnaar

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#107 rragnaar
Member since 2005 • 27023 Posts

[QUOTE="rragnaar"]My concerns about staying here have much more to do with what I percieve to be the death of the GGD, this new debacle just adds one more reason not to stay. I really feel like C-Net would be doing themselves a favor by being honest about the situation and addressing everyone's concerns about the future reliability of this site. Lord only knows how many people cancelled their subscriptions today. I know I did. Losing readers en masse can't be better than losing one advertiser.

Honestly, as much as I love the gamespot community I feel like most of the real discussion has retreated back into our blogs and private forums. Losing GG was bad enough. How many more regulars are going to leave before this place is full of strangers making disposable threads?dvader654

I leave that to this place, on monday, it will be a new week and I will see if we get some normalcy back. As long as this place still have the members I enjoy and the good discussions we have I will stay, if not I will leave.


For sure, I haven't given up on this place yet, this community is worth fighting for regardless of how I feel about GS or CNET.  I think that is the one thing that people don't understand about the mods.  The mods aren't doing what they do for GS, they are doing it for the community.
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FreyarHunter

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#108 FreyarHunter
Member since 2003 • 2098 Posts

It still makes me shake my head when I see people assuming that the mod team is under the employ of cNet. We still have our own opinions, beliefs, and curiosities. As said before, we're merely forum members that try to keep things orderly.

We all will have to wait to see what cNet has to say for itself. I would personally rather hear from the editors rather than some PR guy, as pretty much anything through PR will be ignored with the belief that it was spun.

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rragnaar

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#110 rragnaar
Member since 2005 • 27023 Posts
[QUOTE="EdgecrusherAza"]

SteelAttack= Cnet's pawn?

:lol: That rivals some of the most classic funnies of the last few days.

Skylock00

Why is SA the only one who isn't considered a pawn? :(

Skylock = Sad Panda



:lol: Don't take it personal, he called out SteelAttack specifically, so I defended him.
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fedejico

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#111 fedejico
Member since 2005 • 303 Posts

I'd like to know how GameSpot's heavyweight editors were given the news. This is important.

If they were gathered and told what was going on, that's bad news for them and for Jeff.

But, if they were called one by one to an office, and then told the news,then all might not be lost. Especially if there were reminded of some of their more obscure duties in that tete-a-tete.

Think about it.

I'd like to say a couple of things about continuing to work under such a board of directors, and other linked ideas, but that would be adding pressure to some people who for sure aren't feeling quite well right now.

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SteelAttack

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#113 SteelAttack
Member since 2005 • 10520 Posts
[QUOTE="EdgecrusherAza"]

SteelAttack= Cnet's pawn?

:lol: That rivals some of the most classic funnies of the last few days.

Skylock00

Why is SA the only one who isn't considered a pawn? :(

Skylock = Sad Panda

It's things like these the ones that make me love this community.

And for the record, Skylock is not CNet's pawn either. We all pwn, but that's an entirely different story altogether. :P

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UpInFlames

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#115 UpInFlames
Member since 2004 • 13301 Posts

What the...? Users defending mods? This community has really gone to hell.

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rragnaar

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#117 rragnaar
Member since 2005 • 27023 Posts
Alex's blog made me pretty sad.  These guys care about this site, and to have it all screwed up by CNET has to be so painful.
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Bustillo

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#118 Bustillo
Member since 2003 • 90 Posts
I don't post often in the forums here, but I always read the reviews on this site and considered them among the best on the web. This episode has shattered my faith in Gamespot, and I know I am far from alone. I am really disappointed that the management of this site has not tried to explain why Jeff was fired, or quell the rampant rumors that it was due to his negative review of Kane & Lynch. Their subsequent actions, such as taking down the review, do speak volumes, however. Unless Gamespot responds forcefully to this incident, by bringing in an outside person to evaluate what happened, and if necessary, by firing the bean counters who violated the "sacred wall" between the editorial and advertising departments, the reputation this website earned over many years will be shot in days. RIP Gamespot.
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rragnaar

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#119 rragnaar
Member since 2005 • 27023 Posts

What the...? Users defending mods? This community has really gone to hell.

UpInFlames

Shut up pawn!
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FreyarHunter

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#120 FreyarHunter
Member since 2003 • 2098 Posts
[QUOTE="SteelAttack"]It's things like these the ones that make me love this community.

And for the record, Skylock is not CNet's pawn either. We all pwn, but that's an entirely different story altogether. :P

dvader654

Are those three cats going to jump to their deaths?!?!?! :P

Yes. They are going to jump into the bottomless pit of suck.

While I usually use the term "Suck-Less" in place of success... I will have to forgo the "Less" portion for now.

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trifecta_basic

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#121 trifecta_basic
Member since 2003 • 11542 Posts

I'm not suprised to see the direction the suits are going in(wanting to reel in the new Nintendo audience), but the way they are going about it is completely counterproductive and deplorable.

You also have to look at all the high scores at IGN and GI and it really makes you think twice about all gaming media. If anything there is a window for smaller, independent entity to take the lead, because now GS has offically been lowered to the ranks of IGN, GI, 1up etc...a place no hardcore gamer can take seriously. There was always a certain level of professionalism and ethics GS had over the other big sites, and that has now been tossed out the window.

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Foolz3h

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#122 Foolz3h
Member since 2006 • 23739 Posts

What the...? Users defending mods? This community has really gone to hell.

UpInFlames

They're up in flames one mgiht say?

hur. hur. hur.

:(

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SleepyByte

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#124 SleepyByte
Member since 2007 • 305 Posts

I keep trying to read and then post something constructive in the off topic thread but by the time I get done reading one page and hit refresh three more pages have sprouted.

I have had time to contemplate this and I still don't know exactly what my emotion is. It's not hate or even anger. I sound like my mom if I say "I'm not mad at you I'm just disappointed" LOL. Outrage is certainly something I felt but that has passed. What I'm left with is, I'm disillusioned. I trusted this site and that trust is gone. I find it ironic that the person who's reviews and opinions I tended to discount turns out to be the person with the most integrity and most worthy of the afore mentioned trust.

Personally I feel that Jeff is a bit of an 360 fanboy and he often comes off as smug. I recall a commercial for Star Jones show where she says "I don't want people to finish watching my show and be saying to themselves gee, I wonder what she thinks about that, or, I don't know how she feels about this or that subject." That really sums up Jeff to me. I may not like what he has to say but I sure as hell know how he feels and that he is being honest. Take him for what he is worth but he isint going to BS you. It is indeed a sad day when someone who's job is to give you his opinion and when someone doesn't like it he gets fired for it. He got fired for doing his job.

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Disturbed_Dude

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#125 Disturbed_Dude
Member since 2004 • 3777 Posts
Welcome to reality. This type of thing happens all the time. I respect Jeff for not caving in and giving K & L a good review even while under the pressure to do so.
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naz18h

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#126 naz18h
Member since 2004 • 17231 Posts
lol I knew this would happen with Gamespot sooner then later.
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CaptainCapcom

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#127 CaptainCapcom
Member since 2003 • 25 Posts

After hearing about Jeff's Firing, I can now say that I cannot and Will NEVER trust ANY review posted on this site. Period!

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treegoat

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#128 treegoat
Member since 2005 • 25 Posts
I don't really make a habit of posting in forums (on GS or anywhere else, really), but this is disgusting. I may not post, but I do visit this website very regularly, and have been for a very long time, and WAS my preferred site for (what I assumed to be honest) videogame reviews until this happened. I will neveragain visit Gamespot, or any other CNET site. I spit on you and fart in your general direction gamespot, CNET, and Eidos. Farewell. Enjoy your stacks of cash while they last.
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Skylock00

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#130 Skylock00
Member since 2002 • 20069 Posts

Isn't it ironic that a site that is notorious for giving low scores is now losing credibility because of threat of them giving fake high scores (which has yet to happen, or ever happen). GG wrote to me saying why are so many of us upset we didn't trust GS reviews anyway, which is true to an extent. But its the priniciple of it all, even though I thought the review was off I at least knew it was a man's honest opinion. Now we may not know that, where is the fun in debate if we don't know if that is someones true opinion.dvader654
Eh, perhaps.

I still trust the editors as much as I can, and I still have hope for the community on the forums. I've been asked by some people about where I should go after this and what not, and at the end of the day, my feelings are simple:

If/When I leave Gamespot, I'm not going to join any other general gaming community - period. It's not that I don't like any other communities, I just don't really have the interest in starting over in a new community.

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Lanezy

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#131 Lanezy
Member since 2004 • 2438 Posts
Just out of curiosity, did anyone catch the latest tournament TV? I would just like to know if Jeff was mentioned during it's live broadcast.
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GT90

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#132 GT90
Member since 2002 • 6256 Posts
Just out of curiosity, did anyone catch the latest tournament TV? I would just like to know if Jeff was mentioned during it's live broadcast.Lanezy
Jeff was not mentioned at all during the Tournament
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Lanezy

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#133 Lanezy
Member since 2004 • 2438 Posts

[QUOTE="Lanezy"]Just out of curiosity, did anyone catch the latest tournament TV? I would just like to know if Jeff was mentioned during it's live broadcast.GT90
Jeff was not mentioned at all during the Tournament

Who hosted?

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UpInFlames

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#134 UpInFlames
Member since 2004 • 13301 Posts

GG wrote to me saying why are so many of us upset we didn't trust GS reviews anyway, which is true to an extent.dvader654

Considering that gaminggeek himself is an aspiring game journalist, he should be the first to understand why are so many of us upset and why this is such a big deal. Whether you or I disagreed with Jeff's or anyone else's reviews is completely irrelevant.

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SteelAttack

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#135 SteelAttack
Member since 2005 • 10520 Posts

Isn't it ironic that a site that is notorious for giving low scores is now losing credibility because of threat of them giving fake high scores (which has yet to happen, or ever happen). GG wrote to me saying why are so many of us upset we didn't trust GS reviews anyway, which is true to an extent. But its the priniciple of it all, even though I thought the review was off I at least knew it was a man's honest opinion. Now we may not know that, where is the fun in debate if we don't know if that is someones true opinion.dvader654

That's other thing that has been crossing my mind. Many users are now finding themselves not trusting any review, regardless of the quality of the game. There are people implying that GS/CNet staff has been "on the take" since God knows when and then handing out favorable reviews to high profile titles.

I guess this is all collateral damage, and from the looks of it, we might just have seen only the tip of the iceberg so far.

One thing is sure, if we all decide to continue here, it's going to take a massive effort from all of us to sort out this issue.

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GT90

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#137 GT90
Member since 2002 • 6256 Posts

[QUOTE="GT90"][QUOTE="Lanezy"]Just out of curiosity, did anyone catch the latest tournament TV? I would just like to know if Jeff was mentioned during it's live broadcast.Lanezy

Jeff was not mentioned at all during the Tournament

Who hosted?

It was Ryan Mcdonald and Kevin Van Ord plus a guy from namco
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D3s7rUc71oN

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#138 D3s7rUc71oN
Member since 2004 • 5180 Posts

I'm done with this site as far as reviews go, I've been disagreeing with a lot of their reviews lately. Something seemed wrong, no wonder there's a new management that is probably the main cause for this.

I guess I'll have to rely on Gamerankings, and IGN's reviews I've been agreeing alot quite recently. As far as the community goes, I'll probably stay away for the most part and contribute as little as possible if not leave altogether to another place. By coming to the forums I'll be contributing to this new "corrupt" management, so the less traffic this site gets the worst it is for them.

I guess its time to post somewhere else, the new rating system is also not as good as the old one. Time to move to another place to get my gaming news, it won't be easy but I think by this year's end I'll get acommodated to a new site I'll feel comfortable with.

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UpInFlames

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#140 UpInFlames
Member since 2004 • 13301 Posts

If/When I leave Gamespot, I'm not going to join any other general gaming community - period. It's not that I don't like any other communities, I just don't really have the interest in starting over in a new community.Skylock00

I agree wholeheartedly. The fact of the matter is I've invested so much of myself into this community that starting up from scratch somewhere else really isn't an option at all.

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Brixtan

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#141 Brixtan
Member since 2003 • 665 Posts

After hearing about Jeff's Firing, I can now say that I cannot and Will NEVER trust ANY review posted on this site. Period!

CaptainCapcom

Same here. Which is why I've just cancelled my subscription to Gamespot. :( Sad day....

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FreyarHunter

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#142 FreyarHunter
Member since 2003 • 2098 Posts

[QUOTE="GT90"][QUOTE="Lanezy"]Just out of curiosity, did anyone catch the latest tournament TV? I would just like to know if Jeff was mentioned during it's live broadcast.Lanezy

Jeff was not mentioned at all during the Tournament

Who hosted?

Jody hosted. I was watching the broadcast.

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ferr0r

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#143 ferr0r
Member since 2006 • 25 Posts
A dark day in Gamespot's history. I like Jeff and this has nothing to do with him but this isn't the first time Gamespot's integrity has come into question. If anyone remembers there was a situation with a PC game called Savage. It had to be re-reviewed by Greg because apparently the original reviewer didn't really play the game (or enough of it to give valid criticism and the devs had proof). The game wasn't that great anyway but when things like that happen it does seem strange.
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AtomicTangerine

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#145 AtomicTangerine
Member since 2005 • 4413 Posts

Dude... This whole thing is dumb. This site is going to end up like Game Informer where they say Resistance is as good as Gears and that True Crime: NY wasn't buggy at all. I guess that explains why he wasn't on the podcast on Tuesday...

Every time Gamespot had a crazy review before that deviated from the norm, I thought Gamespot was just wrong. Then I would play the game, and then wonder if the other sites even played the game they were reviewing. Looks like Gamespot is going to end up being another outlet for hearing the company line about how good a game is unless everybody does something to stop it. Sadly, I doubt most visitors to the site will even notice the difference, and it might even increase visitors to the site if they just tell people what they want to hear.

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SpecterX3

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#146 SpecterX3
Member since 2005 • 998 Posts

From GoNintendo:

picked up on a commenter over at GameSpot that is calling himself...GameSpot. If this guy is the real deal, he has unleashed a ton of info on the situation. Read ahead, but keep in mind that it may be nothing more than rumor.

The main problem here is that no one in the entire editorial team was aware that this was about to occur, least of all Gerstmann. We're very clear in our review policies that all reviews are vetted by the entire team before they go live - everything that goes up is the product of an entire team's output. Our freelancers are especially guilty of making snide comments, but those are always yanked before the review goes live, because everyone in the office reads these reviews and makes sure they're up to our standards before they get put up.

If there was a problem with his reviews, then it would've been a problem with the entire team. Firing him without telling anyone implies that anyone else on this team can be fired at the drop of a hat as well, because none of us are writing any differently or meaner or less professionally than we were two years ago before the management changed. I'm sure management wants to spin this as the G-Man being unprofessional to take away from the egg on their face that results after a ten-year employee gets locked out of his office and told to leave the premises and then no one communicates anything to us about it until the next day.

Also, despite the fact that this occured two weeks ago, there was no way they were going to fire him then; the last big games didn't come out until just before Thanksgiving, and there was no doubt that management knew that the rest of the reviewers would refuse to write any reviews after his termination, which is indeed what is happening. After thanksgiving nothing major comes out in games; everything is either before thanksgiving or comes out in January. They waited to fire him until they knew that any strike or walkout by the rest of the staff wouldn't have much of an effect.

Also, keep in mind that these salespeople do have axes to grind with editorial. I know a lot of people busted their asses to get not only this large deal with Eidos done, but also other huge ad deals. The salespeople and the marketers are the ones who have to deal with the publishers when a heavily-advertised game gets a bad review, so obviously they like it if every game that comes out is peachy keen and gets a 9.0 or above. If a salesperson knows anything about unprofessional review practices, then that says a lot about the management team that we have in place because not a single other member of the editorial team had heard word one about this until Jeff was fired. Surely site management would want to let us know about their concerns before firing the most senior staff member and one of the most respected game critics in the industry? If they're sharing their concerns with the salespeople and not with us then that says a lot about their priorities.

No one wants to be named because no one wants to get **** fired! This management team has shown what they're willing to do. Jeff had ten years in and was **** locked out of his office and told to leave the building.

What you might not be aware of is that GS is well known for appealing mostly to hardcore gamers. The mucky-mucks have been doing a lot of "brand research" over the last year or so and indicating that they want to reach out to more casual gamers. Our last executive editor, Greg Kasavin, left to go to EA, and he was replaced by a suit, Josh Larson, who had no editorial experience and was only involved on the business side of things. Over the last year there has been an increasing amount of pressure to allow the advertising teams to have more of a say in the editorial process; we've started having to give our sales team heads-ups when a game is getting a low score, for instance, so that they can let the advertisers know that before a review goes up. Other publishers have started giving us notes involving when our reviews can go up; if a game's getting a 9 or above, it can go up early; if not, it'll have to wait until after the game is on the shelves.

I was in the meeting where Josh Larson was trying to explain this firing and the guy had absolutely no response to any of the criticisms we were sending his way. He kept dodging the question, saying that there were "multiple instances of tone" in the reviews that he hadn't been happy about, but that wasn't Jeff's problem since we all vet every review. He also implied that "AAA" titles deserved more attention when they were being reviewed, which sounded to all of us that he was implying that they should get higher scores, especially since those titles are usually more highly advertised on our site.

I know that it's all about the money, and hey, I like money. I like advertising because it pays my salary. Unfortunately after Kasavin left the church-and-state separation between the sales teams and the editorial team has cracked, and with Jeff's firing I think it's clear that the management now has no interest at all in integrity and are instead looking for an editorial team that will be nicer to the advertisors.

When companies make games as downright contemptible as Kane and Lynch, they deserve to be called on it. I guess you'll have to go to Onion or a smaller site for objective reviews now, because everyone at GS now thinks that if they give a low score to a high-profile game, they'll be **** Everyone's **** scared and we're all hoping to get Josh Larson removed from his position because no one trusts him anymore. If that doesn't happen then look for every game to be Game of the Year material at GameSpot.

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perdition24

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#147 perdition24
Member since 2004 • 95 Posts
HAHAHAHAH. I didn't like this guy anyways. " ON THE SPOT STARTS NOW!!!!!" HAHAHAHAH
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GT90

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#148 GT90
Member since 2002 • 6256 Posts
[QUOTE="GT90"][QUOTE="Lanezy"]

[QUOTE="GT90"][QUOTE="Lanezy"]Just out of curiosity, did anyone catch the latest tournament TV? I would just like to know if Jeff was mentioned during it's live broadcast.dvader654

Jeff was not mentioned at all during the Tournament

Who hosted?

It was Ryan Mcdonald and Kevin Van Ord plus a guy from namco

Soul Calibur Legends to get a 9.0 confirmed. :P

It was interesting to watch beacause it looked like Kevin really wanted to say something about it.
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FreyarHunter

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#149 FreyarHunter
Member since 2003 • 2098 Posts
I saw that a bit ago. It's a sad read.
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UpInFlames

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#150 UpInFlames
Member since 2004 • 13301 Posts

That's other thing that has been crossing my mind. Many users are now finding themselves not trusting any review, regardless of the quality of the game. There are people implying that GS/CNet staff has been "on the take" since God knows when and then handing out favorable reviews to high profile titles.SteelAttack

Yeah, and I don't understand that. If anything, wouldn't this absolutely prove GameSpot's integrity up to this point?

As for the community, as overly dramatic as this may sound, it will either break us or make us stronger.