Lol. Much appreciated, dandy. Chaossector'll come back EVENTUALLY but not until after I've finished my project with Val and Tshad and I'm off of full time work.sonicphc

lol, you do realize one of the main reasons I started that project with you was because you basically closed down chaossector?  Really, you can take as much time as you want with it, Shad and I are more than happy to use ZetaBoards until it's finished.  I wouldn't want to come between you and Sonicspot :P

I personally believe Sonic was always doomed for this to happen.  I can't remember what other topic it was, but I was informed how  in its beginning, Sonic was intended to be the "Cooler Mario".  In other words, it was trying to be cool for the kids.  The inherent problem is that those kids eventually grow up, and they want Sonic to stay the same with them.  And then there's the problem of the rapidly degrading youth.  You see, youth interests are now vastly different than what they were before, as such, Sonic has mimic'd that evolution.  In the early days, this wasn't a problem for Sonic, because video games were viewed as a more "nerdy" thing.  Now that gaming has become so casual, Sonic can't continue to try and appeal to the younger generations.

I guess that means I have no taste since I actually enjoyed the Night Stages....huh?

I found it entertaining that they said the most criticism comes from their "Old-School Core group".  Well SEGA, usually listening to the largest opposition to you is the more profitable thing to do.  If "all the old-school fans" are complaining, and they contain a large portion of Sonic sales, wouldn't....I don't know, Your BRAIN tell you that it might be a good idea to change things?

Still, it's really fighting a losing battle really.  SEGA is determined down this path, and the **** from all of us "Old-Schoolers" will do nothing.  If they wanted to make a game for kids, they should have just isolated characters the kids like (Shadow) and made their own solo series....OH WAIT, they already did that didn't they?  Perhaps the fact that the game that was made for "the kids" didn't do too well was a sign of the actual strength of the core-fanbase.  Of course, SEGA is clearly oblivious to Market strategies, so I suppose that's assuming too much in them.

Or better yet, keep throwing out your **** Shadow the Hedgehog games, and we'll keep to our old-school Sonic ones.  In fact, why don't you just make, like, Chibi-SEGA or something.  That department can handle all the little children, then the rest of SEGA can make what we actually want.

Of course, we're really missing one of the bigger points.  They even recognize that the sales from Core gamers come entirely out of loyalty.  It's quite simple, SEGA knows that regardless of what garbage they throw out there, the fans will keep buying.  That's why they in no way try to appease the older group, since they know that we'll most likely buy them anyway.  It would be interesting to see how hurt SEGA would be if all the core group simply stopped purchasing Sonic games.

I apologize for misreading the previous posts, I tend to lightly skim over posts when I'm in a hurry (really my fault considering I shouldn't even BE on gamespot during work).  My bad! :oops:

So now I (hopefully) understand what was said.  I agree that we should "go back" to memorable characters to a certain extent.  I think in the case of traditional baddies it's okay to deviate more.  Although I recognize Mario's popularity, I always kind of disliked the fact that I was pouncing on goombas every single game.  What I like about Sonic games is how the enemies mimic the environments and whatnot.  Sure, it's nice to see enemies we recognize and enjoy, but at the same time it's good to branch out into different territories.  I mean, Green Hill Zone is starting to get REALLY old to me, so I wont protest when Sonic goes somewhere else (this is where I'd insert an example if I had actually played more recent Sonic Games).  Of course, trying different things should only be done when it makes sense.  In other words, SEGA shouldn't throw in random crap because they think it might be "cool", they should add in new ideas when they can reasonably justify it.

Which brings me to a more on topic point (I'm sure phc is ready to slaughter me for going so far OT), Shadow.  As a disclaimer, I acknowledge the opinion that Shadow (to the varying extents as have been spoken before) is a reasonable character.  However, in my mind I can't help but think he is nothing more than a Poochie effect.  (The Poochie Effect, as we studied in my art class, is the act of making a new character solely for the purpose of "reaching out" to the younger generation *see "The Itchy and Scratchy and Poochie Show" Episode of the Simpsons*).  To me, Shadow just seems like that red dog with baggy pants and a backwards hat who periodically shouts some rebellious comment in order to make children gape in awe.  Pretty much every person I talked to about Shadow has said that they liked him "Because he's cool" (Open for adjustment).  I might just be very blind to his character (The only games I've played with him are his initial appearance [Adventure right?  I dislike forgetting names], Heroes, and Chronicles.) but he just seems like a more "Badass" Sonic.

In Mario's universe there's plenty of memorable villans/sidekicks along with Bowser like Bowser Jr., The koopalings, Kamek, Kammy, King Boo, Petey Piranah and the staple of standard baddies like goombas, koopas, etc. Every new Sonic game has new robots. I miss the motobugs and crabmeats. Enough of the ugly mechs. Bring back the staples of the old games. (Unleashed had a few at least).

kbaily

Most of those guys I don't really consider to be "villains" (by villains I really mean, like, archetypal main baddies.  So goombas and koopas [at least in my perspective] don't really count). The other baddies I'm not too certain on.  I'm not going to claim to be a Mario expert, but most of those guys don't sound familiar to me (if they were in old school Mario I'd recognize them as "guy who did such and such in this game").  What I meant in the previous comment was that more often than not, Bowser is the main bad guy, the head honcho.  Sure he throws all sorts of people at you, but he really is the focus of the game. (Well, not focus, but you get my point.

But Metal Sonic was starting to become more evil anyway, since he was the only one who developed a will of his own. I mean really, he may have smarts, but Metal Sonic can adapt himself to anything Sonic does.Soniczero1993

Well, that in itself is kind of lame.  I mean, how can you explain someone who can "adapt to anything" getting beat by someone he's theorhetically "absorbed" without some kind of lame situational defeat?  It's DBZ all over again.  Sure, Cell might be composed of every living creature.  Sure, he's the strongest being in the galaxy with all the moves from every other character.  Sure, he can (like pretty much every other DBZ villain) blow up the entire planet.  How does he lose?  He holds some retarded tournament, and instead of just killing everyone he does that stereotyped crap of "Ohh I want a worthy opponent hurrrrrr".  (And just for the record, all of DBZ [with the addition of a LOT of anime] does this)

Nah, what Sonic needs is more Robotnik (Yes, Robotnik, I as of this point refuse to acknowledge Eggman) as a villain.  Of course, I'm not opposed to having more than one villain, because I would imagine it gets rather boring having the same villain over and over again.  Still, it seems that Robotnik (rather than being improved by SEGA) just spills out the same things, so then SEGA finds new people to be evil.  How SEGA would improve Robotnik?  At the current time I wouldn't really know.  But the point still stands that Robotnik should still be more prevalent in Sonic games.  After all, Mario very rarely gets rid of Bowser.  (Gasp, I've mentioned the forbidden game).  Unless the more recent one did, I wouldn't know since I haven't played it at all.

Errr.....just to clarify, I WAS kidding about that one.  PHC hates that cutscene just as much as I do.  I forgot to add in the ;)   my bad.

OMG LIEK WE SHULD HAVE SHADOW AN SILVER IN TEH NEW BANNER... Nah I'm kidding...kjhg53

The seal slowly makes its way out of the coast.  It's desperate to make the 12 mile journey to the relative safety of the nearby island.  Its swimming becomes frantic.  It knows that there is something wrong.  Its pulse deepens.  The seal knows that it must hurry, as it is only a matter of time.  It takes a quick survey underwater, nothing but blackness.  It continues its race across the violent waters; it knows it isn't alone. The seal begins to take its next brea....WHAM.  The 18-foot Great White springs into the air as the helpless seal is caught in its ferocious pair of teeth.  It violently shakes its newfound catch with a terrifying force.  The seal is no more.....wait, did you say you're kidding?  Damn.....I had prepared this Discovery Channel reference for so long!

Oh come now PHC.  I remember that party you threw where you showed me and "Shad" that cutscene.  You were all:

"OMG GUYS, THIS IS SO AWESOME!  LIKE, I'VE NEVER HEARD SOMETHING SO MOTIVATIONAL BEFORE! SONIC SHOULD RUN FOR PRESIDENT"

Then we watched it, and we laughed.  So then, to hide your love of the cutscene, you went on a mad rampage of pretending to hate it, so that way no one would know your dark secret.  Kind of like how little children in elementary school will bully people they actually like because they're afraid to admit it!

(Yes, this is revenged for that Unleashed discussion.  Mwahahaha)

Yeah, unfortunately at the time I didn't haz moneyz, so PS2 was the only thing I got (even then it was a Christmas present, LUV U GRANNY!!!!).  Now that I actually have a job and reasonable income I've gotten a few more systems.  (And by a few, I mean a PS3 and a DS).  I thought about getting a gamecube, but there was never really enough games to convince me to get it.  Sure, it had Sonic and SSB, but that was really all that interested me.  I'm not going to buy a system because of two games (I recognize that there is more than 1 sonic game for the GC).  I certainly have no interest in getting a Wii, though I wont go into more detail as I find console war debates frustrating.

Well, despite the impossibility of it, Heroes was pretty fun for me.  Eventually I'll grab myself a gameshark and cheat up those emeralds.  Still, the fun was just the transition of a new sonic game, while still feeling like the old ones.