The concept of a Nintendo MMO is interesting and I know I would definitely play a Pokemon MMO by Nintendo over World of Warcraft, it is something that is probably never going to happen. The basic principles of every MMO has always been to:

-Create an engaging and ever changing world

-Endless content that caters to as many demographics as possible to keep players occupied

-Keep content up to date and fresh with constant updates

-Bring as many players in and keep as many players there for as long as possible

-Ensure end game tasks are difficult, tedious and time consuming to accomplish

As you can see, every part of the game is extremely time consuming and oftentimes tedious, feeling like a secondary job. You have a schedule everyday (raid schedule) to go to work (raid) in order to make money (loot, gold and gear etc) in order to survive (having fun and popularity status) and compete within the economy (better gear competing against other players and guilds). The longer they keep you hooked, the more money they rake in. Although thats something Nintendo has always been against, I find it ironic that just the pure quality of many of their games achieve similar results through different intentions.

You need to get more games.The-Radiohead

I don't think you've read my post, or the following replies in response to similar comments such as this.

But still, The Conduit will not live up to expectations.The-Radiohead

That is a pretty big baseless absolute.

Thanks for the reply, SkyGTRline. Once again, it was fun reading what you had to say, as you've really seemed to have gone out of your way to get good info to support your opinion. Even though we're on the same page with a lot of things here, I now want to go a bit further in explaining my stance on a few things. This isn't an attempt to make a better point or anything like that. It's just my way of trying my best to clear a few things up to the best of my ability.

Madmangamer364

First of all, I'm glad you brought up the quote from one of The Conduit's development team members, as I think that further explains part of my disappointment with Wii developers these days. As sad as it is to say this, I can actually believe what that person is saying about how developers have approached their Wii projects, which is more than disturbing to me. Some people are so quick to jump on the Wii's lack of power when compared to the Xbox 360 and the PS3 when the main problem is that no one has actually taken the time to really push the system. Moreso than what kind of games that are being made and which demographic(s) these games are being aimed at, this is by far the biggest gripe I'm having right now. If the system was that vastly underpowered, you'd think that we would be seeing a boatload of games that look great by the system's own standards. Instead, the majority of games look like they've been developed with the PS2 in mind and even then, the results look lackluster. There shouldn't be an excuse for having Resident Evil 4 Wii Edition probably the best looking third party game in the two plus years the Wii has been out.

Madmangamer364

IGN: Did the fact that the game was an original IP prove part of the problem?

Dan: That's definitely part of it. New IP is always a tough sell. It's a bigger investment and a bigger risk. But the potential upside is also much greater for everyone involved. Whenever we would remind publishers of Resident Evil sales numbers on the Wii they'd wave it off, saying, "but that's Resident Evil." Of course, you can only make RE4 if you have the courage to try RE1.

Dan from n-Space

It would be one thing if I was the only person that expressed this concern. At the very least, it could be dismissed as one person's opinion and everyone would be able to move on. What's more disheartning to me is the fact that even those at Nintendo themselves have noticed how badly their system is being treated by these developers. Both Shigeru Miyamoto and NOA President Reggie Fils-Aime have talked about the need of third party developers stepping up and at least putting the effort into their Wii projects as they would anything else. Even if that time isn't used on working with advanced engines, you can be sure that something could use polishing before releasing these games to the public. However, it's not just the game development itself that third party publishers and developers need to work on right now. A greater effort has to be made in convincing Wii owners in what games they should get. In other words, publishers need to advertise these games the same way they do with their PS3/Xbox 360 products. A great example of this would actually be Zack&Wiki, as it was a game that had great potential to appeal to a wide variety of Wii owners, but was in ways doomed from the start because it sat on store shelves while Capcom didn't give the game its fair share of publicity and advertising. While I most definitely agree that we have to do a better of job of supporting these games ourselves, I can't argue with anyone that doesn't when those that are responsible for generating excitement about their own products refuse to support the games themselves.

Madmangamer364

Once again, I feel I have to explain that it's not really the kind of games that have been made that worries me right now. I'll be the first to admit that I'll buy a superb minigame collection with amazing replay value over a decent First Person Shooter that I'll probably never beat any day of the week. It is with this that I'm now concerned that most people are now looking at these upcoming games and thinking that it will immeadiately solve the problem with the efforts behind Wii games. I'm not saying that these games will be bad or anything, but I feel that people are giving some games a better chance than others simply because of these "hardcore," "mature," and "dark" labels they have, and I don't find that very encouraging, especially for a system that prides itself on inclusion amongst the gaming and even non-gaming public. When I see people say that they are going to buy "mature" or "dark" games just because they are that and thinks that will encourage developers somehow, it also feels like they are saying that they are willing to buy any game, regardless of quality, as long as the theme is right. That's not to say that anyone will actually do that, but sending a message like that would be no better than going out and buying every minigame collection you can, as it's pretty much the same thing with a different kind of game. In the end, I think we can all agree that the Wii needs quality games, but I don't think it should really matter what game that is.

Madmangamer364

Of course, you can only make RE4 if you have the courage to try RE1.

Dan from n-Space

But anyways, I felt the desire and need to try to clear up a few of my points. Hopefully, this wasn't a waste of page space by doing so.

Madmangamer364

if nintendo were even half as smart as they claim to be, they would have made a console capable of handling amazing games and not all this kiddy junk that keeps popping up. mario and link and kirby need to die horrible deaths...end of story.Sam2k9

Nintendo invented the wheel with their Mario and Link series. No matter how you look at it, they're the foundation of what the gaming scene is today and continue to set the standards in their respective genres. If thats your definition of "kiddy junk", the true definition where there are shallow people who can't see past what makes a game fun (because in the end, having fun is all that matters and violence, gore and blood aren't necessary factors) isn't too far off. Whatever games you prefer is just that - subjective preferences. It is idiotic to label a company "not even half as smart as they claim to be" who is responsible for taking existing hardware and utilizing it innovative ways successfully onto their platform (analog, touchscreen, multiplayer, rumble and the current Wii - many who are standard today and will most likely remain standard in the future) is responsible for the majority of the growth in this industry and develops amazing games. Amazing in the sense that the majority of the reviewers and people across all boards agree, not just my opinion - its a fact.

I have nothing against the other consoles, but if you ever see a grandma playing a game like Halo (odd example, bare with me for the sake of the argument), it is probably because of Nintendo's influence.

[QUOTE="Jaysonguy"]

What hype?

The game was hardly advertised at all

jmangafan

In my opinion, Super Mario Galaxy far exceeded what little hype there was on the game and is the best looking platformer with the unique gameplay using creative and intuitive controls of the current generation.

Drawing the same comparison, I was a bit underwhelmed in the hype:actual game ratio with Brawl. The funny thing is, I'm not too sure why. It may be because I've already went through countless years of Super Smash Bros 64 and Melee.

I also hoped Brawl would incorporate the "Ultimate Moves" (for the lack of a better word) into the game while keeping it balanced, not just an addition in the form of a Smash Ball where it puts certain characters at more of an advantage in the process of acquiring it and others at even moreso of a disadvantage once the Smash Ball is unleashed.

I'd rather them not pursue useless technologyJaysonguy

While I disagree with current Nintendo technology being useless and find it innovative, I do agree that such technology hasn't been put to full use in the majority of the games. Though I'd have to say, with the current Wii Wheel, WiiMote, Nun-Chuck, Balance Board and Wii Speak, my living room is getting a bit "clogged up".

First of all, that was a great post. I have to admit that while even though what you've said is similar to what is oftentimes said around these parts, it was very entertaining to read your point of view because of the way that you've expressed it. It was a post that was put together extremely well that was also respectful and insightful. :)

Madmangamer364

Thanks :)

Anyways, your concerns on the Wii are not unlike many Wii owners or even Nintendo itself. While we have all seen the system jump out of the gate faster than any other system ever and break records all over the world, one who is close to the system can't help but feel at least a tad worried about the lackluster support it has been getting. As you've put it, it's not as if the system has actually seen a drought of games in general, something the GameCube did experience a few times in its lifecycle. It's just that quality and appealing software has become hard to find because of most developers' focus on Wii game development. If you ask me, it's really not even the kind of games that are being created that's the issue here. It's the committment and effort behind a lot of the Wii games we've seen that disturbs me.

Madmangamer364

In case you havent seen this quote:

A quote from the creators of The Conduit:

"One of the major challenges that we discovered when moving forward with the project was that most publishers we spoke to had no (zero, less than zero, terribly less than zero) interest in seeing what we could do with higher-end graphics, tight gameplay, and integrated mechanics. "The Wii is not a hardcore market," and variations on that theme were common refrains."

SOURCE: http://wii.ign.com/articles/949/949610p1.html

SkyGTRline

I don't completely put all the blame on the publishers/developers as while games like Zack & Wiki (just an example off the top of my head) isn't everyone's cup of tea, in my opinion it shows that original IPs such as that aren't so easy to market into the general consensus of the Wii. So I believe that while third party support is imperative, just as important is our support for such software.

I think we've all compared the Wii to the DS in the way that third party developers have performed on the system, which is very understandable. Both systems received slow support out of the gate, and a lot of it did have to do with a new control interface to deal with, along with other differences with the hardware. However, when I think about it now, I realize that the DS did have one thing that the Wii didn't that has helped its third party portfolio improve drastically, and that would be the faith and interest developers had in the system out of the gate. Yeah, we may have seen a lot of mediocre games, but it never really felt like developers were taking it easy with the games that were being made to make a quick buck, or at least to the level that we've seen on the Wii. Because everyone thought that the Wii would become GameCube-like in the way that it appealed to people, developers thought it was ok to not put out the best effort on the system, and when the Wii threw that theory out of the window, everyone not named Nintendo found themselves playing catch-up.

Still, playing catch-up for a while in order to generate a little momentum is one thing, but that still doesn't excuse where the Wii is at this moment regarding the support it's still getting. While it seems as though most of these developers want to complain about their games not selling on the system, they still refuse to produce higher quality titles. It's no secret why Nintendo's games sell better, and it's because Nintendo has earned the trust from a lot of its consumers by making quality games. I was hoping that with games like Super Mario Galaxy leading the way, it would have guided some developer or another in that direction to push everything about the system to its limits, but sadly, very few games still manage to do that and most of them are still Nintendo's. Even as I look at the upcoming games, I still don't see that true push to make a game that is willing to compete with the best that Nintendo has to offer, and I think that is what it's going to take for these third-party developers to get a clue of what they can really do with the system. Most of what I'm seeing this year are a boatload of attempts of trying to amass as many "mature" gamers they can find, which really isn't that much different than all of the minigame compilations we've seen thus far, only these new games will have a smaller crowd to work with.

Madmangamer364

I agree that the Wii didn't receive as much support when compared to the DS when it initially came out. But I think what may be part of the reason is because while the DS was a fresh and new experience to develop on, the Wii seemed like a reiteration on TV (in my opinion, incomplete without WiiMotion+) with bigger development risk.

In regards to the developers playing catch-up (which I completely agree with you on), I don't think I could've said it any better than what Matt@IGN.com has said about this issue relating to the state of Winter:

"There's always been one in particular I've been itching to show because I think it's a shame that it never went anywhere. Tonight on IGN Wii, you can finally see it. Look out for the developer interview, art, gameplay screenshots and, of course, direct-feed video. I think you'll agree that publishers who passed on this original IP need to eat dog feces.

It's a Catch 22 -- pubs too scared to take a gamble because no 'dark' games sell on Wii; and no dark games sell on Wii because nobody releases quality ones -- that I wish would just go away."

Matt-IGN

SOURCE: http://blogs.ign.com/Matt-IGN/2009/01/20/110434/

Again, while I don't completely blame them (publishers/developers) because it is indeed hard to market original software, there are a few titles out there who could've used more support than what was received.

But anyways, I hope that one of these days, a developer or two will wake up and see what it is the Wii is truly about and what it can really offer. We've seen glimpses here and there, but it's going to take an A-team effort and determination in order to make a game that can really do wonders for the system and whoever makes it. These are just my two cents, but I hope you've enjoyed reading them as much as I did yours. :)

Madmangamer364

Couldn't have said it better myself and I hope the upcoming games this year will fill those roles. Your reply was very enjoyable to read as well :)