Since you don't want to take the word of someone who has overclocked multiple Phenom II chips, go to overclock.net and ask some people who know a lot about overclocking Phenom II X4's. They'll tell you the same story.

hartsickdiscipl

I explained my thought process with a comparison of the Intel E8XXX series with the AMD 9XX BE series, and even went to the point of explaining why I am skeptical and admitting that I could be ignorant of the methodology behind AMD's binning. But instead of continuing the discussion, you snobbishly boast your credentials and tell me to go elsewhere to get an answer. I'm not entirely sure about what I should think at this point, but you're giving me the impression that you're not the kind of person that likes to be disagreed with :?

That being said, I took your advice and searched for threads on Overclock.net that pertained to what I was looking for, and I got conflicting answers on the first threethreads which I came across. And on HWbot, every PII x4 970 CPU-Z entry from 4.7GHz to 4.3GHz is done on air coolers, and there is absolutely no entry below the 4.3GHz mark. I'll try registering on overclock.net and posting a thread regarding this when I'm feeling a bit less tired, but TBH, all the information I've come across so far does NOT sway my mind in favor of your argument.

[QUOTE="MaoTheChimp"]

You could also increase the multiplier on the Phenom II 970, thus returning the performance gap between it and the Phenom II 955 :?

hartsickdiscipl

Not really true. All the 970 does is push the envelope of the existing Deneb architecture a little bit farther. The max overclock speed of a 955, 965, and 970 are pretty much the same. Meaning that you're no more likely to hit 3.9 or 4.0ghz with a 970 than you are a 955.

In a similar situation, the E8500 and E8600 also pushed the Wolfdale architecture a little bit further, and yet, on average, they could attain significantly higher overclocks than what the older E8400 could achieve. My thoughts are, if AMD is selling a processor which has a stock frequency that's quite a bit higher than it's lower-end cousin, it should behave similarly to the Wolfdale scenario I mentioned above.

All of the Phenom II X4 "Black Edition" or "BE" CPUs are the same thing. The only difference is that they clock some a little higher out of the factory so they can sell them for a higher price. In reality there's really no difference between a 955, 965, and 970

hartsickdiscipl

I'm sorry if I'm being completely ignorant here, but I can't find a single source, whether it be from AMD or a hardware review site, that has come to this same conclusion with some degree of proof to back it up. Because of this, I'm rather skeptical of your statement that the Phenom II 970 is no different than it's 965/955 cousins.

[QUOTE="MaoTheChimp"]

[QUOTE="ferret-gamer"] The phenom 1090t goes to 3.8-4.0ghz on the stock coolerferret-gamer

And the i5 760, which has a stock frequency of 2.8GHz, can also hit that frequency with a roughly equal amount of consistency...

And yet it still gets outperformed by the overclocked 1090t in many applications.

The same article you pulled those charts from shows the i5 750 pulling ahead in a roughly equal amount of the tests :?

[QUOTE="MaoTheChimp"]

[QUOTE="gmaster456"]The Quad Core i5 would still perform much better in games then the x6 but for stuff like HD video rendering, the x6 would have a slight upper hand especially at a higher clock speedferret-gamer

The i5 would very likely have more overclocking headroom than the PII x6 with the average air cooler, so the PII's overclocking headroom is a null point when comparing the two processor families.

And the i5 760, which has a stock frequency of 2.8GHz, can also hit that frequency with a roughly equal amount of consistency...

Realistically the best "bang for the buck" on the AM3 platform is probably the Athlon II X4 640. For less than $100 (USD) you get a 3ghz quad-core that can do anything reasonably well.

If you can afford to spend a little more, the Phenom II X4 955 is the next best for bang-for-the-buck IMO. I don't see a reason to spend the extra money on the 965 or the 970 when any 955 can reach their clock speeds with a simple, fast multiplier change in the BIOS. You'd never notice the difference anyways.

The out and out most powerful CPU for AM3 is the Phenom II X6 1090T hexacore.

hartsickdiscipl

You could also increase the multiplier on the Phenom II 970, thus returning the performance gap between it and the Phenom II 955 :?

The Quad Core i5 would still perform much better in games then the x6 but for stuff like HD video rendering, the x6 would have a slight upper hand especially at a higher clock speedgmaster456

The i5 would very likely have more overclocking headroom than the PII x6 with the average air cooler, so the PII's overclocking headroom is a null point when comparing the two processor families.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131667&cm_re=crosshair_iv-_-13-131-667-_-Product

I know that probably does not help at all considering how expensive it is, but that really is it from what I can tell that lets you SLI with AMD cpus. I went for AMD and even if I hadnt I would have put 2 6870's in my computer anyway so it just ended up saving me money anyway. I guess that would be my real suggestion is putting 2 6870 or 6850 cards in there.

Edit: just to clarify this uses Lucid Hydra which lets you go 2 amd or 2 nvidia cards or a mix of the two, scales about the same as real crossfire and sli unless you mix brands then its not very good at scaling, nice if you have an old 9800GT or something laying around though.

Limp_Laky

I mean no disrespect, but a $290 AM3 board would easily put the OP's setup into the i7's price range. I highly suggest that the OP reconsiders the 750a-based boards that General_X posted above, or otherwise go for an i7 platform if he/she can indeed afford the Crosshair IV.

[QUOTE="MaoTheChimp"]

[QUOTE="hartsickdiscipl"]

If he sells all 3, he can get something with DX10 support and 512mb of RAM, no problem. People buy anything.. look at Ebay. I've sold things older than that.

hartsickdiscipl

7800 GT's don't seem to go for much nowadays :?

Of course they don't. But neither do 9600 or 8800gt's. He could easily afford one of those off ebay with the money from selling the 8400gs that he says he already has, as well as the 7800gt's. Think outside the box. I'm actually selling an Asus 9600GT TOP on ebay right now, and I don't expect it will bring over $45, based on what I'm seeing from other sales. You just have to be smart and know how to sell and buy.

I've just watched a few 8800 GT's go from anywhere in between $40-$60 on ebay, and this isn't taking into account the shipping costs. So while I do agree that it would be good for the OP to sell his current cards in exchange for a decent midrange card, I believe it would be best to err on the side of caution and advise the OP that he/she would possibly have to shell out $20-$30 in the process.

-EDIT- Bloody awful grammar

[QUOTE="gameguy6700"][QUOTE="hartsickdiscipl"]

A single 7800gt is way better than an 8400GS for gaming, so yeah.. definitely the 7800's in SLI. What you could do is sell the 8400 and both 7800gt's, and get a decent, modern GPU.

hartsickdiscipl

If he sells all 3, he can get something with DX10 support and 512mb of RAM, no problem. People buy anything.. look at Ebay. I've sold things older than that.

7800 GT's don't seem to go for much nowadays :?

[QUOTE="MaoTheChimp"]

[QUOTE="hartsickdiscipl"]

Currently I wouldn't buy either one, since Intel is supposed to release a whole new high-end type socket next year.

But, given the choice between 1156 and 1366, I'd go 1366. For me the options are either to go cheap and effective with AMD/AM3, or go all the way with LGA 1366. That way you have all of the high-end CPUs available to you, as well as triple-channel RAM, and a more powerful chipset- X58.

Limp_Laky

If the OP takes advantage of MicroCenter's deal on the Ci5 760, the cost of the platform would be VERY similar to what would be paid for a similar AM3/PII quad setup.

I'm guessing the $40 off doesn't apply to the in-store Ci5 760 deal? It would be great if the OP picked up the Ci5 760 for ~$170 AND got $40 off an LGA1156 motherboard :P