Until a DEVELOPER counters Insomniac's TECHNICAL claims, their word is law!

[QUOTE="klactose"][QUOTE="munu9"]Nice, good read, though it could have done without the number 7 reason....munu9

No, but him and his speculation have more credibility than anyone here. He's not some random system wars guy, he's an actual dev who's had years of experiance. In fact, he deserves more credibilty than anyone else expect other devs...

Hastings didn't discus technical issues.Natural_Mystic

EDIT: When you get a chance actually take the time to READ the first post in this thread. I point to the technical issues I'm talking about.

[QUOTE="Natural_Mystic"]Hastings didn't discus technical issues.klactose

My responses are in bold and in red

I have some comments about some of the things he has said.

 

BTW i have a 360 and PS3

 

[QUOTE="klactose"]

1: Gears is the best looking game to date, including RFOM.[QUOTE="Brian Hastings"]Gears of War is a beautiful game and shows off the highest resolution textures of anything yet released, partly because of the Unreal Engine's ability to stream textures. This means that you can have much higher resolution textures than you could normally fit in your 512 MB of RAM.

...

Sometimes people ask us, "If Resistance takes 14 gigabytes, why doesn't it look better than Gears?" Well, for one, Resistance didn't support texture streaming, so we had to make choices about where we spent our high-res textures.crunchy9178

LoL what a lame excuse. Who cares how Epic did it, as long as it did and it look better do the consumers really care? The Unreal 3.0 engine is gonna pwn and if it looks that well on the 360 I'm not surprised he's defending how RFOM. 

Response: Well I don't think this is really an excuse per se, I think it's an acknowledgement of the reality that Gears was better than RFOM. He even seems to have learned a new trick for making his own games prettier! I can't fault him there :)

2: 50GB of data WILL make games better.[QUOTE="Brian Hastings"]As games get bigger, more advanced and more complex, they necessarily take up more space. If developers were filling up DVDs last generation, there are clearly going to be some sacrifices made to fit current generation games in the same amount of space.

...

There's no question that you can always cut more levels, compress the audio more, compress the textures more, down-res the mpeg movies, and eventually get any game to fit on a DVD. But you paid for a high-def experience, right? You want the highest resolution, best audio, most cinematic experience a developer can offer, right? That's why Blu-Ray is important for games, and why it will become more important each year of this hardware cycle.klactose

Well if i wanted to watch a movie then fine, but a game? It's the few megs of code that makes the game fun not exceesively large textures and sound. If you follow that philosophy then you can argue that a game that is 100GB is potentially better than 50GB. And has this guy ever heard of multi-disc? Since when were multi-disc games were bad? FF7 anyone? How about for a game like FPS how does multi-disc work you ask? Well take a book out of Total Annihilation, Campaign disc and Multiplayer disc.

Response: Well I'll have to listen to Hastings point that bigger and better games are going to start needing more than 9GB, BUT I agree with your position that Blu-Ray isn't the only answer to the increased media space needed for the bigger games. 

3: The Hard Drive MATTERS.[QUOTE="Brian Hastings"]The problem with including a hard drive in one version of the 360 and not in the other is that developers can't use it for the games. Or, at least, they can't use it for any required features. When you are guaranteed to have at least a 20 GB hard drive in the console, you can write your load caching routines around it, or use it for your application's storage needs. To a developer, an optional hard drive is roughly equivalent to no hard drive at all.klactose

Hasn't this guy heard of RAM? It's insanely faster than a hard drive. All you need a harddrive for is game saves and content. If you're relying on a harddrive to cache stuff then either you're not using RAM properly or is just saying that the PS3 doesn't have enough RAM. Personally I think that's the case, 256 ain't enough for HD size textures but that's another story.

I get where he's coming from a hdd will assist in reliving some of the pressure but remember that HDD is slow-as and you don't need it for a good gaming experience as much as he claims... unless you develop for a PC lol

Response: I think he is more so discussing the development cycle and how developers will scan the market and develop for the lowest common denominator (especially within the same platform). So that if there is an 360 SKU that does not have a hard drive, then in all likely hood developers will NOT include any required HDD content in their game discs. This makes sense, because if they did, they would be excluding potential customers.

Didnt he say that Xbox Live was $70 a year? his credibility was lost when he said that.MrGrimFandango

It's actually $85 here in Sweden. Not everybody has it as cheap as you americans have it. 

[QUOTE="MrGrimFandango"]Didnt he say that Xbox Live was $70 a year? his credibility was lost when he said that.Cyberfairy

It's actually $85 here in Sweden. Not everybody has it as cheap as you americans have it.

70$ here in new zealnd. 

You speak of his technical review of the ps3 vs the wii and the xbox 360.

But i have yet to see anything technical in it.

there are few number, barely any facts, and no flow charts or anything that could be construed as technical comparison.

  if this were tech paper it would be in the nearest dumpster in seconds.

1. little big planet

okay you are saying a game that isn't out will win it all for the ps3. where is the proof that it can't be done on either xbox or wii. no where! just keeps saying ti is a an awesome game. okay it is an awesome game but no one game will make it console winner look at gamespots gotys most are gamecube games and we saw how that went. there point taken away.

2.  free online

 sigh okay. this one he actually uses numbers. 70 down 50 a year. But he fails to account that some people don't want to play online or that people will stop playing online for a time period. yes if you pay online you will get a bad vaule over the time. but do consumer know this? I would argue that they don't. seeing that far into the furture is tough for people. Just look at mmos. It is 25 bucks a month you are spending 300 bucks a year for a game. yet not many are aware of it nor care. people also like money over time rather than money down a 600 console seems more imposing then 25 bucks a month for 2 years. another example your house loans. wow players could have bought a ps3 by now.

3. 50gb

 the question is what stop them from using multiple disks like resident evil 4 or FF early PS1 games? yes it will go up the question is more of how much? where is the data or chart or something that shows that dvd even using multiple disks isn't gonna cut it? even if it has more data second question it does the ps3 actaully read faster than the dvd9 in the xbox. I am sure some one has it some where it isn't even mentioned in this article.

4. casino royale

it hit 7 okay... how long till people are going to adopt blu-ray? one movie sold well the format war is still waging and the dvd still exist is haven't look but probably the other  9 in the list are dvds. the impact of the blu-ray in this battle isn't going to near the furvor of the ps2 and dvd why because it isn't the quantum leap that was vhs and dvd players nor do hd set make up the amount of audience tv sets.

5. HDMI

new elite has it too therefore not better than the xbox. 

6. standard HDD

i agree the no hardrive for the xbox is terrible.

7. Wii

okay this is pure opinion. where is the data? he just says it is a fad thats it. nothing proving or disproving

we havn't seen how this would pan out and we are at the begining of the wave. Also how long do fads last? if it is anything like ds or pokemon it can almost be proclaimed the winner cause momentum is everything. example is the multiplats are coming to the DMC4 for the 360 or even the DS getting dragon quest. all because they have higher market shares.  second he makes the assumption that wii is a primary console. I would argue it is secondary console. The reasoning is that the wii has differentied itself so well and that it also sits in the easily bought area. as long it hold both new fun controls and really cheap price it can still win. and no you wouldn't  play need for speed that for 360 and ps3 but you would damn well play madden on it.

8. CPU

"With the PS2, Sony got away with making a fairly developer-unfriendly system, and its success allowed their hardware designers to ignore developer's complaints as they made the PS3. People high up at Sony have realized that approach simply won't work anymore and are trying to fix the problem. Sony is actively improving their libraries, tools and developer support in order to make PS3 development easier. They are giving first party developed techniques and code to third-party developers so that multi-platform games should start looking better on PS3. " hmm so it will get better. question is 200 better or just xbox to ps2 better. if just xbox ps2 better it is in for trouble.

 9. selling more ps2 to 360

I would take that as a bad sign. Why? cause that means that the people have lost faith in the PS3. why would you buy something that is so outdated when you buy a new one that can play the old and the new? reason cause you placed the cost too high! it lends the idea that people are waiting for the price to drop. and if they want momentum they gotta drop it soon or 360 will pull a lead that will force more exclusive to multiplat. do you see anyone still buying xboxs or gamecube? hell no! cause it is low price making it reasonable to buy instead of their cheaper older counterparts

10.  something for ever everyone

yes it was diverse. yes they were good but it is starting to lose some of its diversity to the 360. thats the problem. and as is none of those diverse ones are out yet. so their impact without the 100 million player base is questionanle how much of the market share consumed them. 1million to 100 million is 1%. 

the guy spouted opinion barely anything  "factual" maybe a number here or there but no analysis. I have counter argued his points they are mostly my op. 

Ok, by now everyone is aware of the "10 Reasons Sony Wins" article the Chief Creative Officer at Insomniac, Brian Hastings, wrote. Well this post ISN'T about his forecast for the future, half of his article is speculative and he isn't a fortune teller (I'll ask Cleo if I want to know the future).

What he is, however, is a Game developer with intimate knowledge of software and hardware. So the specific items he touched on regarding the technical attributes shall be considered true by me until another developer claims differently. I don't want to see any crappy posts in here from "anonymous devs". If they have something to say the should be willing to speak openly. I respect Brian for having the guts to put his professional opinion on the line. With that said, let's get busy and explore the technical issues he discussed.

1: Gears is the best looking game to date, including RFOM.[QUOTE="Brian Hastings"]Gears of War is a beautiful game and shows off the highest resolution textures of anything yet released, partly because of the Unreal Engine's ability to stream textures. This means that you can have much higher resolution textures than you could normally fit in your 512 MB of RAM.

...

Sometimes people ask us, "If Resistance takes 14 gigabytes, why doesn't it look better than Gears?" Well, for one, Resistance didn't support texture streaming, so we had to make choices about where we spent our high-res textures.klactose

2: 50GB of data WILL make games better.

As games get bigger, more advanced and more complex, they necessarily take up more space. If developers were filling up DVDs last generation, there are clearly going to be some sacrifices made to fit current generation games in the same amount of space.

...

There's no question that you can always cut more levels, compress the audio more, compress the textures more, down-res the mpeg movies, and eventually get any game to fit on a DVD. But you paid for a high-def experience, right? You want the highest resolution, best audio, most cinematic experience a developer can offer, right? That's why Blu-Ray is important for games, and why it will become more important each year of this hardware cycle.Brian Hastings

3: The Hard Drive MATTERS.

The problem with including a hard drive in one version of the 360 and not in the other is that developers can't use it for the games. Or, at least, they can't use it for any required features. When you are guaranteed to have at least a 20 GB hard drive in the console, you can write your load caching routines around it, or use it for your application's storage needs. To a developer, an optional hard drive is roughly equivalent to no hard drive at all.Brian Hastings

4: 360's GPU has slight edge over PS3's.

The GPUs on the Xbox 360 and PS3 are roughly equivalent, with the Xbox 360 arguably having a slight edge.Brian Hastings

5: PS3 has major CPU advantage over 360.

The difference in CPU power, however, is far greater with the PS3 enjoying the advantage. The PS3's eight parallel CPUs (one primary "PPU" and seven Cell processors) give it potentially far more computing power than the three parallel CPUs in the Xbox 360. Just about any tech programmer will tell you that the PS3's CPUs are significantly more powerful.Brian Hastings

So there you have it. Anything that disputes these points that doesn't come from another developer will be ignored, or proclaimed as bunk. However if another dev disputes this then we will finally have a real discussion in the gaming world about the real limitations of both of these consoles.

EDIT:

People PLEASE READ the post BEFORE you respond. Alot of you are making yourselves look silly.:shock: This post is NOT saying that Insomniac's word is law concerning PS3 winning the console war. This post IS saying that the TECHNICAL issues that Mr. Hastings has broached will be considered TRUTH up until the time that another developer counters them. If you do not understand this, please take a reading comprehension course. Thank you.

Tisk tisk a console gamer trying to tell everyone how Computers works Hillarious. and trying to use points that are known to by everyone. Brian is trying to confuse you by saying something but not saying the real truth but not really lying

1 he say gears look gorgeous and that resistance doesn;t look as good cause, Resistance can't stream textures..... and they had to "spent"  them in key places. ok so he's saying because the engineers that made the unreal Engine can make a better looking game on worse hardware. so it takes good engineers to make good looking games?? he self owned himself there. no matter what system you choose it's only gonna have betetr looking games if they have the better  Developers.

2 don't see why we need all this crazy stuff in our games. it's kinda bad but i have still yet to see a more than 5gb  game on the PC and games that get huge patches like WOW are up to like 8 gig on my drive. so WTF did they put in Resistance to take up 14gig? PC games have high resolution so i don't wanna hear that. I know they had to add some stuff in there at super high quality that really is uneccesary they did this to show wow look we made a 14g game you do need blueray.

3 Thats kinda correct what he said but there will be some games that will require it if there ports and you can just put in back of game requires Harddrive. i think FFXI has it on the back for the 360. so he failed cause there are games that require the Harddrive on 360.

4 see how he said only 1 sentance about the 360? it's a better GPU...... this means everything to PC gaming. you can have an amd dual core and have a geforce 5500 and it won't play games better than a intel p4 3ghz with a Geforce 6200. Microsoft knows this and thats why they put a strong one in it. It's possible the GPU is the gf8 series and the sonys is equvilant to like a 7600.

5 read 4 ,same applies here the GPU is what the GFX come from. Now in other things using the Cpu the PS# will be better. But it's for games right.

this guy works for Sony it's obvious he's trying to sell more Games i forgive him but anyone who thinks he's honest and sincere has to be foolish.

[QUOTE="Cyberfairy"]

[QUOTE="MrGrimFandango"]Didnt he say that Xbox Live was $70 a year? his credibility was lost when he said that.Zenkuso

It's actually $85 here in Sweden. Not everybody has it as cheap as you americans have it.

70$ here in new zealnd.

I'm guessing if what you say about the HUGE difference between the Xenos and RSX is true (which I do not doubt), then we should hear some rebuttals in the not too distant future. What do you think? You know these guys better than me, do you think any of them will have the balls to counter what Hastings has presented concerning the GPU? He did say that the Xenos was better, but it seems that you are saying he understated how much better it is, so that should leave some room for his peers to chime in! I can only hope! :)klactose

[QUOTE="BlackDianWei"][QUOTE="klactose"]First question I would have to ask after reading your rant is: Did you actually READ my post? It seems that a LOT of fanboys are jumping to conclusions about what this topic is about. Now, if you have read the post and aren't jumping to conclusions, then please, please, PLEASE, provide me some link to all the Devs that discredit the technical issues brought up by Mr. Hastings.klactose

Hahaha! :lol: That is true... it is very hard to get a logical conversation going here. Sometimes I don't even know why I try! :P But anyway, that "DEE DEE DEE's" comment sounds like something we'd say here in Chicago, and I never expected to see it used on this website! :lol: Where are you from?

Chi-Town FTW!!!!!!!!

[QUOTE="klactose"][QUOTE="Natural_Mystic"]Hastings didn't discus technical issues.Natural_Mystic

until bluray games actually look better than 360 games, then he might be on to something.

until then, 360 games (dvd9) are looking better than ps3 games (bluray), thus proving even developers don't admit the entire truth..

unless he wants to admit the reason ps3 games don't look better than 360 games is because sony developer are not as good as 360 developers...

keep the dream alive cows...

OMG LO freaking Loud......are you for real?????  This mans word is .......LAW...lolOLOloolOLOl0olOLOL..  that is the most DESPERATE thing i have ever heard. OK  i got ya...lets see....HOW MANY DEVS have come out and said the SAME thing only about the 360????? So i suppose that THIER word is LAW also....lolOLLollOLOLOloloLOOLOL.. lets see, the creator of Final Fantasy seems to think that  MS will be the leader...along with Epics "cliffy B.".......so i guess that THEY are right...NOT.  sorry TC, you cant go by some develpers opinion...and if you are...then there have been WAAAAAY more developers come out and say that the 360 will be the leader this gen..sorry.....WE FOUGHT THE LAW AND THE LAW GOT PWNED :Pjazreal

until bluray games actually look better than 360 games, then he might be on to something.

until then, 360 games (dvd9) are looking better than ps3 games (bluray), thus proving even developers don't admit the entire truth..

unless he wants to admit the reason ps3 games don't look better than 360 games is because sony developer are not as good as 360 developers...

keep the dream alive cows...

tango90101

You speak of his technical review of the ps3 vs the wii and the xbox 360.

But i have yet to see anything technical in it.

there are few number, barely any facts, and no flow charts or anything that could be construed as technical comparison.

  if this were tech paper it would be in the nearest dumpster in seconds.

1. little big planet

okay you are saying a game that isn't out will win it all for the ps3. where is the proof that it can't be done on either xbox or wii. no where! just keeps saying ti is a an awesome game. okay it is an awesome game but no one game will make it console winner look at gamespots gotys most are gamecube games and we saw how that went. there point taken away.

 

2.  free online

 sigh okay. this one he actually uses numbers. 70 down 50 a year. But he fails to account that some people don't want to play online or that people will stop playing online for a time period. yes if you pay online you will get a bad vaule over the time. but do consumer know this? I would argue that they don't. seeing that far into the furture is tough for people. Just look at mmos. It is 25 bucks a month you are spending 300 bucks a year for a game. yet not many are aware of it nor care. people also like money over time rather than money down a 600 console seems more imposing then 25 bucks a month for 2 years. another example your house loans. wow players could have bought a ps3 by now.

3. 50gb

 the question is what stop them from using multiple disks like resident evil 4 or FF early PS1 games? yes it will go up the question is more of how much? where is the data or chart or something that shows that dvd even using multiple disks isn't gonna cut it? even if it has more data second question it does the ps3 actaully read faster than the dvd9 in the xbox. I am sure some one has it some where it isn't even mentioned in this article.

 

4. casino royale

it hit 7 okay... how long till people are going to adopt blu-ray? one movie sold well the format war is still waging and the dvd still exist is haven't look but probably the other  9 in the list are dvds. the impact of the blu-ray in this battle isn't going to near the furvor of the ps2 and dvd why because it isn't the quantum leap that was vhs and dvd players nor do hd set make up the amount of audience tv sets.

5. HDMI

new elite has it too therefore not better than the xbox. 

6. standard HDD

i agree the no hardrive for the xbox is terrible.

7. Wii

okay this is pure opinion. where is the data? he just says it is a fad thats it. nothing proving or disproving

we havn't seen how this would pan out and we are at the begining of the wave. Also how long do fads last? if it is anything like ds or pokemon it can almost be proclaimed the winner cause momentum is everything. example is the multiplats are coming to the DMC4 for the 360 or even the DS getting dragon quest. all because they have higher market shares.  second he makes the assumption that wii is a primary console. I would argue it is secondary console. The reasoning is that the wii has differentied itself so well and that it also sits in the easily bought area. as long it hold both new fun controls and really cheap price it can still win. and no you wouldn't  play need for speed that for 360 and ps3 but you would damn well play madden on it.

8. CPU

"With the PS2, Sony got away with making a fairly developer-unfriendly system, and its success allowed their hardware designers to ignore developer's complaints as they made the PS3. People high up at Sony have realized that approach simply won't work anymore and are trying to fix the problem. Sony is actively improving their libraries, tools and developer support in order to make PS3 development easier. They are giving first party developed techniques and code to third-party developers so that multi-platform games should start looking better on PS3. " hmm so it will get better. question is 200 better or just xbox to ps2 better. if just xbox ps2 better it is in for trouble.

 9. selling more ps2 to 360

I would take that as a bad sign. Why? cause that means that the people have lost faith in the PS3. why would you buy something that is so outdated when you buy a new one that can play the old and the new? reason cause you placed the cost too high! it lends the idea that people are waiting for the price to drop. and if they want momentum they gotta drop it soon or 360 will pull a lead that will force more exclusive to multiplat. do you see anyone still buying xboxs or gamecube? hell no! cause it is low price making it reasonable to buy instead of their cheaper older counterparts

10.  something for ever everyone

yes it was diverse. yes they were good but it is starting to lose some of its diversity to the 360. thats the problem. and as is none of those diverse ones are out yet. so their impact without the 100 million player base is questionanle how much of the market share consumed them. 1million to 100 million is 1%. 

the guy spouted opinion barely anything  "factual" maybe a number here or there but no analysis. I have counter argued his points they are mostly my op. 

ballistic3188

You make some good points. But I don't think that you've actually read my post or you would know that I pulled out the specific instances which I was talking about as being technically sound UNTIL DISPROVED. So click the little number 1 at the top of this page and actually read what I wrote. It might make this conversation a little more interesting.

Tisk tisk a console gamer trying to tell everyone how Computers works Hillarious. and trying to use points that are known to by everyone. Brian is trying to confuse you by saying something but not saying the real truth but not really lying

1 he say gears look gorgeous and that resistance doesn;t look as good cause, Resistance can't stream textures..... and they had to "spent"  them in key places. ok so he's saying because the engineers that made the unreal Engine can make a better looking game on worse hardware. so it takes good engineers to make good looking games?? he self owned himself there. no matter what system you choose it's only gonna have betetr looking games if they have the better  Developers.

2 don't see why we need all this crazy stuff in our games. it's kinda bad but i have still yet to see a more than 5gb  game on the PC and games that get huge patches like WOW are up to like 8 gig on my drive. so WTF did they put in Resistance to take up 14gig? PC games have high resolution so i don't wanna hear that. I know they had to add some stuff in there at super high quality that really is uneccesary they did this to show wow look we made a 14g game you do need blueray.

3 Thats kinda correct what he said but there will be some games that will require it if there ports and you can just put in back of game requires Harddrive. i think FFXI has it on the back for the 360. so he failed cause there are games that require the Harddrive on 360.

4 see how he said only 1 sentance about the 360? it's a better GPU...... this means everything to PC gaming. you can have an amd dual core and have a geforce 5500 and it won't play games better than a intel p4 3ghz with a Geforce 6200. Microsoft knows this and thats why they put a strong one in it. It's possible the GPU is the gf8 series and the sonys is equvilant to like a 7600.

5 read 4 ,same applies here the GPU is what the GFX come from. Now in other things using the Cpu the PS# will be better. But it's for games right.

this guy works for Sony it's obvious he's trying to sell more Games i forgive him but anyone who thinks he's honest and sincere has to be foolish.

peacebringer

Hmmm... So I'm a "console gamer trying to tell everyone how computers work"? If you look at my profile, you'll see that the majority of my games are PC games. So there goes your first sentence out the door. But the rest of what you said isn't THAT bad, and I don't think that it contradicts anything that Hastings has said.

Let's sum it up, shall we? Hastings basically had 2 positive points for the 360 (best looking games, and best GPU), He mentioned games will need more than 9GB soon (this CAN be done with multiple DVDs or with Blu-Ray so it's a wash there, though he obviously prefers the Blu-Ray solution), He mentioned 2 positive points for the PS3 (both SKUs having a HD which simplifies the development process and best CPU). And for the record, the simple fact that you can think of "1" game that has "requires HDD" on the back when the 360 has a library of over 100 games, proves his point about the HDD better than anything.

You have given me YOUR opinion about each of these things, and that is fine. But like I said, you haven't discounted HIS. This thread ISN'T a pro-anybody thread. So approaching it in that manner just makes me think you haven't understood my post. Of course this guy has biases, every human has biases. But when you are discussing science, a person's bias has less power to corrupt than elsewhere. Why? Because in science everything is submitted to "PEER REVIEW", and until his PEERS have REVIEWED his technical analysis and say he's wrong, how are you qualified to do so? As I said UNTIL a DEVELOPER counters those arguments, who else should we listen to? More people on SW?

oh wow, this insomiac guy is basically on Sony's payroll so his opinion means absolutely nothing.  I've read more in depth, unbiased technical analysis that say otherwise.audioaxes

no his word should not be law. get the heck out of here. his company pretty much works for sony. his games are 2ndparty games for sony consoles. i mean seriousaly if we are gonna listen to this devs opinion then the wii wins for having miyamoto(legend oh by the way) on nintendos side. i mean come on thats like rare or bungie saying 360 is the best and will be the winner. and lets not forget developers have also shown there distaste for PS3. Gabe something the guy who developed Half Life and Half Life 2 said he hated sony in the GI magazine. Capcom have been open with how frustrated they are with trying to develope a game for the PS3(which led to DMC 4 going multiplat). Cliffy B(gears developer) said he loved making games for the 360. do those statements mean all that much. no. infact i believe on these forums alone its been proven time and time again that the advantage sony holds in cpu is the same advantage 360 has with gpu. but the point of this post is that this guy has a biased opinion, a very biased opinion because he works for sony. his words really dont have legit merits. now if capcom, konami, square, valve, etc. multiplat devs basically said something about one console than yeah ud have a legit arguement for one side. but even then it would still be one persons opinion.jg4xchamp

[QUOTE="Zenkuso"][QUOTE="Cyberfairy"]

[QUOTE="MrGrimFandango"]Didnt he say that Xbox Live was $70 a year? his credibility was lost when he said that.peacebringer

It's actually $85 here in Sweden. Not everybody has it as cheap as you americans have it.

70$ here in new zealnd.

Chi-Town FTW!!!!!!!!

mazdero

Epic, Id Software, Valve, Bioware, Capcom all pwn Insomniac in the ground. Insomniac does not have any law. I hope other Devs see what they say and jump ship to X360 because of the ignorant dev that sony has working for them.JeffGenocideX

Ill believe third partys liek Gabe Newell and John Carmack before Ill believe first party lackys like Insomniac. They both seem to think the cell isnt that great with its in order processing and asymetric design. The Cells advantage over the Xenon is insignificant when it comes to games.TOAO_Cyrus1

when insomniac start acting like developers (i.e. making decent games) then i'll take their word as law. right now, they're just fanboys who are upset that MS hasn't paid any attention to them due to the quality issues with their titles.

/thread. 

Graphics, graphics, graphics... will it never end? I own none of the Next-Gen consoles, and I won't be buying any of those untill some games come out that I find superb (playing games is a personal taste thing).

I just wanted to react, because the TC states that only "DEVELOPERS" may counter Insomniac technical claims... well, I thought that was kinda weird to post on a gamespot system wars forum.

As personal opinions or reasoning don't really matter here, I'll post a nice link. If you would be truly interested in a graphical comparison between the 360 and PS3 I would recommend you to read the following:

http://ac-revolution.gametrailers.com/gamepad/index.php?action=viewblog&id=72463

These are real technical claims, and although it may not be from a developer, this particular blog entry rocks.

Have fun reading ;)

The 10 points was a good read and I know it was dumbed down to make it easy to understand by the average gamer. From what I have seen the 360 has a slightly beter gpu and better dev tools. The ps3 has a much stronger cpu with demos to prove it and has more storage space and the hard drive is standard.

I suspect that the graphics should be a wash and the ai and physics going to the ps3 seeing as how the ps3 will also use the u3 engine. I also believe that blu-ray and the standard hard drive should pay off in the long run with shorter loading times and bigger worlds. It really all boils down to what the developer can do with the hardware as specs mean squat if the gameplay is not there along with graphics.

I never thought a game like GT4 could run @ 1080i on the ps2 but it did or shadow of colossus was possible and look at GOW2. All these games were made on the ps2 and look like xbox games. I am sure that the same devs given access to the ps3 will produce great games that are beyond what people would think is possible. When I play F1 a 1st gen launch game for the ps3 I can only dream what GT5 will bring.

when insomniac start acting like developers (i.e. making decent games) then i'll take their word as law. right now, they're just fanboys who are upset that MS hasn't paid any attention to them due to the quality issues with their titles.

 

/thread. 

3picuri3

[QUOTE="TOAO_Cyrus1"]Ill believe third partys liek Gabe Newell and John Carmack before Ill believe first party lackys like Insomniac. They both seem to think the cell isnt that great with its in order processing and asymetric design. The Cells advantage over the Xenon is insignificant when it comes to games.klactose

They are not speaking out cause they are to busy laughing at them.

i agree with not the "10 reasons sony wins" but with like you said the technical stuff he said....it makes sense...and ive always said it since the beginning that the xbox GPU and the ps3 GPU are equal with the xbox Gpu Having a slight advantage,due to the artichecture...the CPU tho ps3 wins by a landslide...he seems unbiased.TheWiikestLink

[QUOTE="klactose"][QUOTE="TOAO_Cyrus1"]Ill believe third partys liek Gabe Newell and John Carmack before Ill believe first party lackys like Insomniac. They both seem to think the cell isnt that great with its in order processing and asymetric design. The Cells advantage over the Xenon is insignificant when it comes to games.JeffGenocideX

They are not speaking out cause they are to busy laughing at them.

all the horsepower in the world isnt gunna get you good games and a cheap price. oback

Graphics, graphics, graphics... will it never end? I own none of the Next-Gen consoles, and I won't be buying any of those untill some games come out that I find superb (playing games is a personal taste thing).

I just wanted to react, because the TC states that only "DEVELOPERS" may counter Insomniac technical claims... well, I thought that was kinda weird to post on a gamespot system wars forum.

As personal opinions or reasoning don't really matter here, I'll post a nice link. If you would be truly interested in a graphical comparison between the 360 and PS3 I would recommend you to read the following:

http://ac-revolution.gametrailers.com/gamepad/index.php?action=viewblog&id=72463

These are real technical claims, and although it may not be from a developer, this particular blog entry rocks.

 

Have fun reading ;)

 

 

dirktu

EDIT: Oh, and to clarify again why my criteria is "until a DEVELOPER disproves him" is just because everyone knows who the game companies are, so it's easier to admit that they actually know about making games. While no one has a clue who, for instance, the guy is who wrote the article you linked too. And just like with that Michael "Optimus" Perry article, if you don't know who the person/company is giving the analysis it's easier to disparage (even if they may be telling to truth).

The 10 points was a good read and I know it was dumbed down to make it easy to understand by the average gamer. From what I have seen the 360 has a slightly beter gpu and better dev tools. The ps3 has a much stronger cpu with demos to prove it and has more storage space and the hard drive is standard.

I suspect that the graphics should be a wash and the ai and physics going to the ps3 seeing as how the ps3 will also use the u3 engine. I also believe that blu-ray and the standard hard drive should pay off in the long run with shorter loading times and bigger worlds. It really all boils down to what the developer can do with the hardware as specs mean squat if the gameplay is not there along with graphics.

I never thought a game like GT4 could run @ 1080i on the ps2 but it did or shadow of colossus was possible and look at GOW2. All these games were made on the ps2 and look like xbox games. I am sure that the same devs given access to the ps3 will produce great games that are beyond what people would think is possible. When I play F1 a 1st gen launch game for the ps3 I can only dream what GT5 will bring.

ChiChiMonKilla

Ok, by now everyone is aware of the "10 Reasons Sony Wins" article the Chief Creative Officer at Insomniac, Brian Hastings, wrote. Well this post ISN'T about his forecast for the future, half of his article is speculative and he isn't a fortune teller (I'll ask Cleo if I want to know the future).

What he is, however, is a Game developer with intimate knowledge of software and hardware. So the specific items he touched on regarding the technical attributes shall be considered true by me until another developer claims differently. I don't want to see any crappy posts in here from "anonymous devs". If they have something to say the should be willing to speak openly. I respect Brian for having the guts to put his professional opinion on the line. With that said, let's get busy and explore the technical issues he discussed.

1: Gears is the best looking game to date, including RFOM.[QUOTE="Brian Hastings"]Gears of War is a beautiful game and shows off the highest resolution textures of anything yet released, partly because of the Unreal Engine's ability to stream textures. This means that you can have much higher resolution textures than you could normally fit in your 512 MB of RAM.

...

Sometimes people ask us, "If Resistance takes 14 gigabytes, why doesn't it look better than Gears?" Well, for one, Resistance didn't support texture streaming, so we had to make choices about where we spent our high-res textures.klactose

2: 50GB of data WILL make games better.

As games get bigger, more advanced and more complex, they necessarily take up more space. If developers were filling up DVDs last generation, there are clearly going to be some sacrifices made to fit current generation games in the same amount of space.

...

There's no question that you can always cut more levels, compress the audio more, compress the textures more, down-res the mpeg movies, and eventually get any game to fit on a DVD. But you paid for a high-def experience, right? You want the highest resolution, best audio, most cinematic experience a developer can offer, right? That's why Blu-Ray is important for games, and why it will become more important each year of this hardware cycle.Brian Hastings

Why is gears a better game then when its obviously smaller. Dont gimme that streaming texture bullcrap, thats one of the metods to keep the size of the game down .

3: The Hard Drive MATTERS.

The problem with including a hard drive in one version of the 360 and not in the other is that developers can't use it for the games. Or, at least, they can't use it for any required features. When you are guaranteed to have at least a 20 GB hard drive in the console, you can write your load caching routines around it, or use it for your application's storage needs. To a developer, an optional hard drive is roughly equivalent to no hard drive at all.Brian Hastings

See Oblivion on the 360 and Gears on X360 without HDD and still the best graphics for now.

4: 360's GPU has slight edge over PS3's.

The GPUs on the Xbox 360 and PS3 are roughly equivalent, with the Xbox 360 arguably having a slight edge.Brian Hastings

5: PS3 has major CPU advantage over 360.

The difference in CPU power, however, is far greater with the PS3 enjoying the advantage. The PS3's eight parallel CPUs (one primary "PPU" and seven Cell processors) give it potentially far more computing power than the three parallel CPUs in the Xbox 360. Just about any tech programmer will tell you that the PS3's CPUs are significantly more powerful.Brian Hastings

The cell hype, we still have to see how much 'superior The Cell is. Its another overhyped product by sony just like the emotion engine. Cell wasnt designed for gaming, X360 powerPC triple-core is.

So there you have it. Anything that disputes these points that doesn't come from another developer will be ignored, or proclaimed as bunk. However if another dev disputes this then we will finally have a real discussion in the gaming world about the real limitations of both of these consoles.

EDIT:

People PLEASE READ the post BEFORE you respond. Alot of you are making yourselves look silly.:shock: This post is NOT saying that Insomniac's word is law concerning PS3 winning the console war. This post IS saying that the TECHNICAL issues that Mr. Hastings has broached will be considered TRUTH up until the time that another developer counters them. If you do not understand this, please take a reading comprehension course. Thank you.