Until a DEVELOPER counters Insomniac's TECHNICAL claims, their word is law!

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klactose

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#1 klactose
Member since 2003 • 1167 Posts

Ok, by now everyone is aware of the "10 Reasons Sony Wins" article the Chief Creative Officer at Insomniac, Brian Hastings, wrote. Well this post ISN'T about his forecast for the future, half of his article is speculative and he isn't a fortune teller (I'll ask Cleo if I want to know the future).

What he is, however, is a Game developer with intimate knowledge of software and hardware. So the specific items he touched on regarding the technical attributes shall be considered true by me until another developer claims differently. I don't want to see any crappy posts in here from "anonymous devs". If they have something to say the should be willing to speak openly. I respect Brian for having the guts to put his professional opinion on the line. With that said, let's get busy and explore the technical issues he discussed.

1: Gears is the best looking game to date, including RFOM.

Gears of War is a beautiful game and shows off the highest resolution textures of anything yet released, partly because of the Unreal Engine's ability to stream textures. This means that you can have much higher resolution textures than you could normally fit in your 512 MB of RAM.

...

Sometimes people ask us, "If Resistance takes 14 gigabytes, why doesn't it look better than Gears?" Well, for one, Resistance didn't support texture streaming, so we had to make choices about where we spent our high-res textures.Brian Hastings

2: 50GB of data WILL make games better.

As games get bigger, more advanced and more complex, they necessarily take up more space. If developers were filling up DVDs last generation, there are clearly going to be some sacrifices made to fit current generation games in the same amount of space.

...

There's no question that you can always cut more levels, compress the audio more, compress the textures more, down-res the mpeg movies, and eventually get any game to fit on a DVD. But you paid for a high-def experience, right? You want the highest resolution, best audio, most cinematic experience a developer can offer, right? That's why Blu-Ray is important for games, and why it will become more important each year of this hardware cycle.Brian Hastings

3: The Hard Drive MATTERS.

The problem with including a hard drive in one version of the 360 and not in the other is that developers can't use it for the games. Or, at least, they can't use it for any required features. When you are guaranteed to have at least a 20 GB hard drive in the console, you can write your load caching routines around it, or use it for your application's storage needs. To a developer, an optional hard drive is roughly equivalent to no hard drive at all.Brian Hastings

4: 360's GPU has slight edge over PS3's.

The GPUs on the Xbox 360 and PS3 are roughly equivalent, with the Xbox 360 arguably having a slight edge.Brian Hastings

5: PS3 has major CPU advantage over 360.

The difference in CPU power, however, is far greater with the PS3 enjoying the advantage. The PS3's eight parallel CPUs (one primary "PPU" and seven Cell processors) give it potentially far more computing power than the three parallel CPUs in the Xbox 360. Just about any tech programmer will tell you that the PS3's CPUs are significantly more powerful.Brian Hastings

So there you have it. Anything that disputes these points that doesn't come from another developer will be ignored, or proclaimed as bunk. However if another dev disputes this then we will finally have a real discussion in the gaming world about the real limitations of both of these consoles.

 

EDIT:

People PLEASE READ the post BEFORE you respond. Alot of you are making yourselves look silly.:shock: This post is NOT saying that Insomniac's word is law concerning PS3 winning the console war. This post IS saying that the TECHNICAL issues that Mr. Hastings has broached will be considered TRUTH up until the time that another developer counters them. If you do not understand this, please take a reading comprehension course. Thank you.

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CalmityDaunt

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#2 CalmityDaunt
Member since 2006 • 296 Posts
Well put
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palaric8

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#4 palaric8
Member since 2006 • 2246 Posts
I completely agree with his wii is a fad point of view.
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jazreal

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#5 jazreal
Member since 2006 • 2736 Posts
OMG LO freaking Loud......are you for real?????  This mans word is .......LAW...lolOLOloolOLOl0olOLOL..  that is the most DESPERATE thing i have ever heard. OK  i got ya...lets see....HOW MANY DEVS have come out and said the SAME thing only about the 360????? So i suppose that THIER word is LAW also....lolOLLollOLOLOloloLOOLOL.. lets see, the creator of Final Fantasy seems to think that  MS will be the leader...along with Epics "cliffy B.".......so i guess that THEY are right...NOT.  sorry TC, you cant go by some develpers opinion...and if you are...then there have been WAAAAAY more developers come out and say that the 360 will be the leader this gen..sorry.....WE FOUGHT THE LAW AND THE LAW GOT PWNED :P
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111v

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#6 111v
Member since 2005 • 1007 Posts
i agree with just about everything he said.
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magus-21

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#7 magus-21
Member since 2006 • 2868 Posts
Two stupid things he said: [QUOTE="klactose"]As games get bigger, more advanced and more complex, they necessarily take up more space. If developers were filling up DVDs last generation, there are clearly going to be some sacrifices made to fit current generation games in the same amount of space. ... There's no question that you can always cut more levels, compress the audio more, compress the textures more, down-res the mpeg movies, and eventually get any game to fit on a DVD. But you paid for a high-def experience, right? You want the highest resolution, best audio, most cinematic experience a developer can offer, right? That's why Blu-Ray is important for games, and why it will become more important each year of this hardware cycle.

What a moronic assumption. Why should devs have to make games fit on one DVD9?
The problem with including a hard drive in one version of the 360 and not in the other is that developers can't use it for the games. Or, at least, they can't use it for any required features. When you are guaranteed to have at least a 20 GB hard drive in the console, you can write your load caching routines around it, or use it for your application's storage needs. To a developer, an optional hard drive is roughly equivalent to no hard drive at all.klactose
Equally moronic regarding the load caching. If there's a hard drive, the game uses caching. If there isn't, the game doesn't. Simple. Unless a game is OMGSOEFFINGHUGE that EVERY stage must be streamed at a fast pace, but then you're hitting budgetary concerns, not technical concerns, because the sheer amount of $$$ required to put THAT much detail into a game would hit astronomical levels. Why don't you find a quote from someone whose paycheck isn't signed by Sony. Did Bethesda have trouble incorporating the optional hard drive into the 360 version of Oblivion? No, they didn't. The PS3 has a very slight load time advantage, and I emphasize the word *SLIGHT*. Did being on 3 DVDs stop Mistwalker from creating a game that has received rave reviews in Japan and will likely be a million-seller on these shores? No, it didn't. This is just SCE propaganda intended to deceive the lay audience into thinking that these SUPERFICIAL reasons are enough to sway developers and consumers into buying into the PS3.
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billing

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#8 billing
Member since 2004 • 642 Posts

Who the hell is Insomniac,

 

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klactose

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#9 klactose
Member since 2003 • 1167 Posts
I completely agree with his wii is a fad point of view.palaric8
Yeah, but his perspective of what is a "fad" and isn't can't really be used to expand legitimate "technical" discussions around here, and that's what I want to focus on in this thread. I too believe that the Wii is a fad at the moment, but the only things he has more authority to discuss than us common mortals on systemwars is the technical abilities and limitations of the consoles in respect to game development. So I kind of tuned out his opinions of pop culture and what he felt will wow the public in the future.
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elementz28

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#10 elementz28
Member since 2007 • 1829 Posts
No will be able to counter it because its the truth!!
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ssj_lightseeker

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#11 ssj_lightseeker
Member since 2003 • 881 Posts

OMG LO freaking Loud......are you for real????? This mans word is .......LAW...lolOLOloolOLOl0olOLOL.. that is the most DESPERATE thing i have ever heard. OK i got ya...lets see....HOW MANY DEVS have come out and said the SAME thing only about the 360????? So i suppose that THIER word is LAW also....lolOLLollOLOLOloloLOOLOL.. lets see, the creator of Final Fantasy seems to think that MS will be the leader...along with Epics "cliffy B.".......so i guess that THEY are right...NOT. sorry TC, you cant go by some develpers opinion...and if you are...then there have been WAAAAAY more developers come out and say that the 360 will be the leader this gen..sorry.....WE FOUGHT THE LAW AND THE LAW GOT PWNED :Pjazreal

 

You sir...should grow up. 

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xLegend24

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#12 xLegend24
Member since 2007 • 814 Posts

I'm breaking this law!

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Nugtoka

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#13 Nugtoka
Member since 2003 • 1812 Posts
I don't think Insomniac word gets to be LAW until the come out with a game that can beat Gears of War. until then i'll take Epics word.
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jg4xchamp

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#14 jg4xchamp
Member since 2006 • 64039 Posts
his company is owned by sony. im sorry but he only makes games for a sony console. i think capcom being mad at the fact that its hard to develop for the PS3 holds more wieght. thats a dev that makes games for all 3 consoles and has showed its distaste for how hard the PS3 is to develop for. this guys word isnt law lets get real. cause miyamoto(a legend as far as game developers are concerned) can talk about how the wii will win. and MS could get somebody from rare or bungie to talk about how the 360 will win.
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SuperVegeta518

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#15 SuperVegeta518
Member since 2005 • 5960 Posts
He is a Chief Creative Officer, this has nothing to do with programing, and just as many devs have called the 360 more powerfull than the PS3 as have called the PS3 more powerfull. I guess that is word wasn't law even before he spoke huh?
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jazreal

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#16 jazreal
Member since 2006 • 2736 Posts

[QUOTE="jazreal"]OMG LO freaking Loud......are you for real????? This mans word is .......LAW...lolOLOloolOLOl0olOLOL.. that is the most DESPERATE thing i have ever heard. OK i got ya...lets see....HOW MANY DEVS have come out and said the SAME thing only about the 360????? So i suppose that THIER word is LAW also....lolOLLollOLOLOloloLOOLOL.. lets see, the creator of Final Fantasy seems to think that MS will be the leader...along with Epics "cliffy B.".......so i guess that THEY are right...NOT. sorry TC, you cant go by some develpers opinion...and if you are...then there have been WAAAAAY more developers come out and say that the 360 will be the leader this gen..sorry.....WE FOUGHT THE LAW AND THE LAW GOT PWNED :Pssj_lightseeker

 

You sir...should grow up. 

:P if growning up "to you" means  believing everything i read just because i WANT a certain console to win.....then ill STAY young.....and by the way....if my FACTS offend you so....GO BACK TO THE GBA BOARDS........i cant believe you said that just because someone counters and opinion.....YOU GROW UP :P
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WilliamRLBaker

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#17 WilliamRLBaker
Member since 2006 • 28915 Posts
Put it this way, I have a simple setence that smashes your insomniac's tech words are law.....

If every thing you've said is true...then why haven't we seen proof? (the setence)
All we've seen so far is that multiplatform games work better on the 360, its sold more, and its got more games released.

If the ps3 is gonna win, and if its so much more powerful and has all these great things like more space on the media, and standard hdd?

then why haven't we seen the benefits, Devs have been working on games for the system for a while, I think we'd see a better showing of what the system is capable of...Oh and folding@home? I would expect the ps3 to be good at it, The 7 spe's are basically made for nothing but number crunching and thats it! its what they do, Folding@home? ITs a program built specifically to NUMBER CRUNCH!

If ps3 wasn't good at that id be worried even more then i am now...
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klactose

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#18 klactose
Member since 2003 • 1167 Posts

OMG LO freaking Loud......are you for real?????  This mans word is .......LAW...lolOLOloolOLOl0olOLOL..  that is the most DESPERATE thing i have ever heard. OK  i got ya...lets see....HOW MANY DEVS have come out and said the SAME thing only about the 360????? So i suppose that THIER word is LAW also....lolOLLollOLOLOloloLOOLOL.. lets see, the creator of Final Fantasy seems to think that  MS will be the leader...along with Epics "cliffy B.".......so i guess that THEY are right...NOT.  sorry TC, you cant go by some develpers opinion...and if you are...then there have been WAAAAAY more developers come out and say that the 360 will be the leader this gen..sorry.....WE FOUGHT THE LAW AND THE LAW GOT PWNED :Pjazreal

First off, not one developer has written anything specifically addressing these issues. This is the FIRST time a Dev has come out and openly laid down any resemblance to a technical comparison. Second, if you believe that I'm desperate to defend the PS3, then you are delusional.

Next you seem to have failed reading comprehension... I specifically DISCOUNT his future forecasting. I don't care what anyone has to say about who will win the console war. That is why this post is ONLY ABOUT TECHNICAL issues he brought up. So please pay attention or actually read prior to posting in the future. Thank you.

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bloodyclot

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#19 bloodyclot
Member since 2007 • 389 Posts

I'm a 360 owner and a ps3 owner and I love my 360. I agree with everything that gentleman said... except he left out some parts.... #1. the games have to be fun, I want nice graphics but I also want FUN. #2. Better graphics don't make a better system. I had all the consoles last gen and I must say I sure enjoyed my ps2 3 times more my other console.. why? see #1 again.

 

 

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jazreal

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#20 jazreal
Member since 2006 • 2736 Posts

[QUOTE="jazreal"]OMG LO freaking Loud......are you for real?????  This mans word is .......LAW...lolOLOloolOLOl0olOLOL..  that is the most DESPERATE thing i have ever heard. OK  i got ya...lets see....HOW MANY DEVS have come out and said the SAME thing only about the 360????? So i suppose that THIER word is LAW also....lolOLLollOLOLOloloLOOLOL.. lets see, the creator of Final Fantasy seems to think that  MS will be the leader...along with Epics "cliffy B.".......so i guess that THEY are right...NOT.  sorry TC, you cant go by some develpers opinion...and if you are...then there have been WAAAAAY more developers come out and say that the 360 will be the leader this gen..sorry.....WE FOUGHT THE LAW AND THE LAW GOT PWNED :Pklactose

First off, not one developer has written anything specifically addressing these issues. This is the FIRST time a Dev has come out and openly laid down any resemblance to a technical comparison. Second, if you believe that I'm desperate to defend the PS3, then you are delusional.

Next you seem to have failed reading comprehension... I specifically DISCOUNT his future forecasting. I don't care what anyone has to say about who will win the console war. That is why this post is ONLY ABOUT TECHNICAL issues he brought up. So please pay attention or actually read prior to posting in the future. Thank you.

ohhhh ok.....ill make it simple.....I DID READ IT, and my comprehension level is just fine...i just LOST REPSPECT FOR YOU WHEN YOU MADE A TOPIC TITLED......".....WORD IS LAW"....so dont tell me kiddoe...you just contridicted yourself. don tell me that "I JUST BLAHH BLAHH and DIDNT BLAHH BALHH"....when your TITLE SAID IT ALL....NEXT : P
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jazreal

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#21 jazreal
Member since 2006 • 2736 Posts

[QUOTE="jazreal"]OMG LO freaking Loud......are you for real?????  This mans word is .......LAW...lolOLOloolOLOl0olOLOL..  that is the most DESPERATE thing i have ever heard. OK  i got ya...lets see....HOW MANY DEVS have come out and said the SAME thing only about the 360????? So i suppose that THIER word is LAW also....lolOLLollOLOLOloloLOOLOL.. lets see, the creator of Final Fantasy seems to think that  MS will be the leader...along with Epics "cliffy B.".......so i guess that THEY are right...NOT.  sorry TC, you cant go by some develpers opinion...and if you are...then there have been WAAAAAY more developers come out and say that the 360 will be the leader this gen..sorry.....WE FOUGHT THE LAW AND THE LAW GOT PWNED :Pklactose

First off, not one developer has written anything specifically addressing these issues. This is the FIRST time a Dev has come out and openly laid down any resemblance to a technical comparison. Second, if you believe that I'm desperate to defend the PS3, then you are delusional.

Next you seem to have failed reading comprehension... I specifically DISCOUNT his future forecasting. I don't care what anyone has to say about who will win the console war. That is why this post is ONLY ABOUT TECHNICAL issues he brought up. So please pay attention or actually read prior to posting in the future. Thank you.

OHHHH OK...let me make it simple for you. And BTW....MY comprehension level in the FIFTH GRADE was higher than yours is now( COLLEGE LEVEL) dont even go there. and YOU my friend just contradicted yourself. YOU tried to say that "IM NOT SAYING BLAH BLAH..and I DIDNT MEAN BLAAH BALH.".....WHEN YOUR TITLE STATED THAT THIS PERSONS WORD IS LAW......WHAT ARE YOU SMOKING. This is NOT the first time that developers have argued over what system is more powerfull "IN THIER OPINION" with specs. IF you would get off of GS and do some research...it wouldnt be so easy to PWN you....NEXT :P
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Timesplitter14

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#22 Timesplitter14
Member since 2006 • 5934 Posts
I agree
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klactose

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#23 klactose
Member since 2003 • 1167 Posts
[QUOTE="jazreal"] OHHHH OK...let me make it simple for you. And BTW....MY comprehension level in the FIFTH GRADE was higher than yours is now( COLLEGE LEVEL) dont even go there. and YOU my friend just contradicted yourself. YOU tried to say that "IM NOT SAYING BLAH BLAH..and I DIDNT MEAN BLAAH BALH.".....WHEN YOUR TITLE STATED THAT THIS PERSONS WORD IS LAW......WHAT ARE YOU SMOKING. This is NOT the first time that developers have argued over what system is more powerfull "IN THIER OPINION" with specs. IF you would get off of GS and do some research...it wouldnt be so easy to PWN you....NEXT :P

Well even by the Fifth grade one learns not to judge a book by it's cover. Which could be interpreted to mean read beyond the title. How about that? So I didn't contradict myself at all, if you actually READ the text of the post you would understand that I am referring only to technical issues. Once again, thank you.
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palaric8

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#24 palaric8
Member since 2006 • 2246 Posts
OMG LO freaking Loud......are you for real?????  This mans word is .......LAW...lolOLOloolOLOl0olOLOL..  that is the most DESPERATE thing i have ever heard. OK  i got ya...lets see....HOW MANY DEVS have come out and said the SAME thing only about the 360????? So i suppose that THIER word is LAW also....lolOLLollOLOLOloloLOOLOL.. lets see, the creator of Final Fantasy seems to think that  MS will be the leader...along with Epics "cliffy B.".......so i guess that THEY are right...NOT.  sorry TC, you cant go by some develpers opinion...and if you are...then there have been WAAAAAY more developers come out and say that the 360 will be the leader this gen..sorry.....WE FOUGHT THE LAW AND THE LAW GOT PWNED :Pjazreal
after reading your posr Dr mr kojima ,stay away...
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Tylendal

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#25 Tylendal
Member since 2006 • 14681 Posts
In response to reason five, as far as I know, the Cells that actually have as many as eight working processors aren't used in the PS3. They're used for military and medical. I think the PS3 cell processors only have 5 or 6 working cells, but this is really old, so it might have changed, or they might have found a more effecient way to manufacture the processors.
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jazreal

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#26 jazreal
Member since 2006 • 2736 Posts
[QUOTE="klactose"][QUOTE="jazreal"] OHHHH OK...let me make it simple for you. And BTW....MY comprehension level in the FIFTH GRADE was higher than yours is now( COLLEGE LEVEL) dont even go there. and YOU my friend just contradicted yourself. YOU tried to say that "IM NOT SAYING BLAH BLAH..and I DIDNT MEAN BLAAH BALH.".....WHEN YOUR TITLE STATED THAT THIS PERSONS WORD IS LAW......WHAT ARE YOU SMOKING. This is NOT the first time that developers have argued over what system is more powerfull "IN THIER OPINION" with specs. IF you would get off of GS and do some research...it wouldnt be so easy to PWN you....NEXT :P

Well even by the Fifth grade one learns not to judge a book by it's cover. Which could be interpreted to mean read beyond the title. How about that? So I didn't contradict myself at all, if you actually READ the text of the post you would understand that I am referring only to technical issues. Once again, thank you.

look dude...im not trying to argue with your..or even insult you...but its kinda funny that youll take this persons word for "GOLD"(hence...WORD IS LAW)...but bash me just bacause i have an opinion over what he said.....come on???????????? and when you are so bold to say that "THE WORD IS LAW" and then back down as you did.......come on....thats all i said, and you have to admit that you went beyond just the TECH issues when you titled your topic. DONT BLAME ME if you got called out on it...and you WERE the first to insult my comprehension.......
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Dualshockin

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#27 Dualshockin
Member since 2006 • 7826 Posts
I completely agree with his wii is a fad point of view.palaric8
I agree too,I keep telling people that Nintendo will be successful in the short run no doubt about it,but in 2 years when Ps3 and 360 are battling it out in graphics,online,and games,this is where Nintendo's major flaw will come to light.
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StealthSting

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#28 StealthSting
Member since 2006 • 6915 Posts
Nope no its not law, in the same way that Miyamotos Mii too approach toward sony online plans was not law, but rather damage control.
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jazreal

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#29 jazreal
Member since 2006 • 2736 Posts
[QUOTE="jazreal"]OMG LO freaking Loud......are you for real?????  This mans word is .......LAW...lolOLOloolOLOl0olOLOL..  that is the most DESPERATE thing i have ever heard. OK  i got ya...lets see....HOW MANY DEVS have come out and said the SAME thing only about the 360????? So i suppose that THIER word is LAW also....lolOLLollOLOLOloloLOOLOL.. lets see, the creator of Final Fantasy seems to think that  MS will be the leader...along with Epics "cliffy B.".......so i guess that THEY are right...NOT.  sorry TC, you cant go by some develpers opinion...and if you are...then there have been WAAAAAY more developers come out and say that the 360 will be the leader this gen..sorry.....WE FOUGHT THE LAW AND THE LAW GOT PWNED :Ppalaric8
after reading your posr Dr mr kojima ,stay away...

......well.....you just proved that anything you have to say here is just.....FAN BASED...hence..FANBOY :) if you cant take the heat....
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DaddyDC650

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#30 DaddyDC650
Member since 2007 • 1241 Posts

Ok, by now everyone is aware of the "10 Reasons Sony Wins" article the Chief Creative Officer at Insomniac, Brian Hastings, wrote. Well this post ISN'T about his forecast for the future, half of his article is speculative and he isn't a fortune teller (I'll ask Cleo if I want to know the future).

What he is, however, is a Game developer with intimate knowledge of software and hardware. So the specific items he touched on regarding the technical attributes shall be considered true by me until another developer claims differently. I don't want to see any crappy posts in here from "anonymous devs". If they have something to say the should be willing to speak openly. I respect Brian for having the guts to put his professional opinion on the line. With that said, let's get busy and explore the technical issues he discussed.

1: Gears is the best looking game to date, including RFOM.[QUOTE="Brian Hastings"]Gears of War is a beautiful game and shows off the highest resolution textures of anything yet released, partly because of the Unreal Engine's ability to stream textures. This means that you can have much higher resolution textures than you could normally fit in your 512 MB of RAM.

...

Sometimes people ask us, "If Resistance takes 14 gigabytes, why doesn't it look better than Gears?" Well, for one, Resistance didn't support texture streaming, so we had to make choices about where we spent our high-res textures.klactose

2: 50GB of data WILL make games better.

As games get bigger, more advanced and more complex, they necessarily take up more space. If developers were filling up DVDs last generation, there are clearly going to be some sacrifices made to fit current generation games in the same amount of space.

...

There's no question that you can always cut more levels, compress the audio more, compress the textures more, down-res the mpeg movies, and eventually get any game to fit on a DVD. But you paid for a high-def experience, right? You want the highest resolution, best audio, most cinematic experience a developer can offer, right? That's why Blu-Ray is important for games, and why it will become more important each year of this hardware cycle.Brian Hastings

3: The Hard Drive MATTERS.

The problem with including a hard drive in one version of the 360 and not in the other is that developers can't use it for the games. Or, at least, they can't use it for any required features. When you are guaranteed to have at least a 20 GB hard drive in the console, you can write your load caching routines around it, or use it for your application's storage needs. To a developer, an optional hard drive is roughly equivalent to no hard drive at all.Brian Hastings

4: 360's GPU has slight edge over PS3's.

The GPUs on the Xbox 360 and PS3 are roughly equivalent, with the Xbox 360 arguably having a slight edge.Brian Hastings

5: PS3 has major CPU advantage over 360.

The difference in CPU power, however, is far greater with the PS3 enjoying the advantage. The PS3's eight parallel CPUs (one primary "PPU" and seven Cell processors) give it potentially far more computing power than the three parallel CPUs in the Xbox 360. Just about any tech programmer will tell you that the PS3's CPUs are significantly more powerful.Brian Hastings

So there you have it. Anything that disputes these points that doesn't come from another developer will be ignored, or proclaimed as bunk. However if another dev disputes this then we will finally have a real discussion in the gaming world about the real limitations of both of these consoles.

 

Indeed. Love the article!
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Dualshockin

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#31 Dualshockin
Member since 2006 • 7826 Posts
In response to reason five, as far as I know, the Cells that actually have as many as eight working processors aren't used in the PS3. They're used for military and medical. I think the PS3 cell processors only have 5 or 6 working cells, but this is really old, so it might have changed, or they might have found a more effecient way to manufacture the processors.Tylendal
Well,he is the Chief Creative Officer of Insomniac games,I dont think he doesnt know what he's talking about :roll:
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CalmityDaunt

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#32 CalmityDaunt
Member since 2006 • 296 Posts
jazreal what's with all the full stops?
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klactose

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#33 klactose
Member since 2003 • 1167 Posts
Put it this way, I have a simple setence that smashes your insomniac's tech words are law.....

If every thing you've said is true...then why haven't we seen proof? (the setence)
All we've seen so far is that multiplatform games work better on the 360, its sold more, and its got more games released.

If the ps3 is gonna win, and if its so much more powerful and has all these great things like more space on the media, and standard hdd?

then why haven't we seen the benefits, Devs have been working on games for the system for a while, I think we'd see a better showing of what the system is capable of...Oh and folding@home? I would expect the ps3 to be good at it, The 7 spe's are basically made for nothing but number crunching and thats it! its what they do, Folding@home? ITs a program built specifically to NUMBER CRUNCH!

If ps3 wasn't good at that id be worried even more then i am now...
WilliamRLBaker
From what I just read, it would seem that you believe that I think the PS3 will win. I haven't mentioned what I believe about that at all in this post. What this entire thread is about is the technical issues that Brian Hastings is the first to publically address, NOT about his "who will win crap". That is why I stated in the first paragraph that I don't care about his predictions for the future.
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palaric8

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#34 palaric8
Member since 2006 • 2246 Posts
especially the part where he said will you buy need for speed for the wii ,if you have a 360/ps3,made me kind of sorry for the people who got their wiis =(
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rocktimusprime

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#35 rocktimusprime
Member since 2006 • 3721 Posts
[QUOTE="jazreal"]OMG LO freaking Loud......are you for real????? This mans word is .......LAW...lolOLOloolOLOl0olOLOL.. that is the most DESPERATE thing i have ever heard. OK i got ya...lets see....HOW MANY DEVS have come out and said the SAME thing only about the 360????? So i suppose that THIER word is LAW also....lolOLLollOLOLOloloLOOLOL.. lets see, the creator of Final Fantasy seems to think that MS will be the leader...along with Epics "cliffy B.".......so i guess that THEY are right...NOT. sorry TC, you cant go by some develpers opinion...and if you are...then there have been WAAAAAY more developers come out and say that the 360 will be the leader this gen..sorry.....WE FOUGHT THE LAW AND THE LAW GOT PWNED :Ppalaric8
after reading your posr Dr mr kojima ,stay away...

after reading yours, he'd probably wanna steer clear of you too
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useLOGIC

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#36 useLOGIC
Member since 2006 • 2802 Posts
im betting that true hardcore gamers will get sick of wii's lack of depth. minigame-type games only go so far
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jazreal

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#37 jazreal
Member since 2006 • 2736 Posts
jazreal what's with all the full stops?CalmityDaunt
??? what do you mean bro....pertaining to.......?
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jazreal

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#38 jazreal
Member since 2006 • 2736 Posts
[QUOTE="palaric8"][QUOTE="jazreal"]OMG LO freaking Loud......are you for real????? This mans word is .......LAW...lolOLOloolOLOl0olOLOL.. that is the most DESPERATE thing i have ever heard. OK i got ya...lets see....HOW MANY DEVS have come out and said the SAME thing only about the 360????? So i suppose that THIER word is LAW also....lolOLLollOLOLOloloLOOLOL.. lets see, the creator of Final Fantasy seems to think that MS will be the leader...along with Epics "cliffy B.".......so i guess that THEY are right...NOT. sorry TC, you cant go by some develpers opinion...and if you are...then there have been WAAAAAY more developers come out and say that the 360 will be the leader this gen..sorry.....WE FOUGHT THE LAW AND THE LAW GOT PWNED :Procktimusprime
after reading your posr Dr mr kojima ,stay away...

after reading yours, he'd probably wanna steer clear of you too

thanx rock...i thought i was alone here.....and btw....WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN...its been awhile bro?:) peace rock
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MrGrimFandango

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#39 MrGrimFandango
Member since 2005 • 5286 Posts
Didnt he say that Xbox Live was $70 a year? his credibility was lost when he said that.
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#40 conceru3
Member since 2007 • 507 Posts

Ok, by now everyone is aware of the "10 Reasons Sony Wins" article the Chief Creative Officer at Insomniac, Brian Hastings, wrote. Well this post ISN'T about his forecast for the future, half of his article is speculative and he isn't a fortune teller (I'll ask Cleo if I want to know the future).

What he is, however, is a Game developer with intimate knowledge of software and hardware. So the specific items he touched on regarding the technical attributes shall be considered true by me until another developer claims differently. I don't want to see any crappy posts in here from "anonymous devs". If they have something to say the should be willing to speak openly. I respect Brian for having the guts to put his professional opinion on the line. With that said, let's get busy and explore the technical issues he discussed.

1: Gears is the best looking game to date, including RFOM.[QUOTE="Brian Hastings"]Gears of War is a beautiful game and shows off the highest resolution textures of anything yet released, partly because of the Unreal Engine's ability to stream textures. This means that you can have much higher resolution textures than you could normally fit in your 512 MB of RAM.

...

Sometimes people ask us, "If Resistance takes 14 gigabytes, why doesn't it look better than Gears?" Well, for one, Resistance didn't support texture streaming, so we had to make choices about where we spent our high-res textures.klactose

2: 50GB of data WILL make games better.

As games get bigger, more advanced and more complex, they necessarily take up more space. If developers were filling up DVDs last generation, there are clearly going to be some sacrifices made to fit current generation games in the same amount of space.

...

There's no question that you can always cut more levels, compress the audio more, compress the textures more, down-res the mpeg movies, and eventually get any game to fit on a DVD. But you paid for a high-def experience, right? You want the highest resolution, best audio, most cinematic experience a developer can offer, right? That's why Blu-Ray is important for games, and why it will become more important each year of this hardware cycle.Brian Hastings

3: The Hard Drive MATTERS.

The problem with including a hard drive in one version of the 360 and not in the other is that developers can't use it for the games. Or, at least, they can't use it for any required features. When you are guaranteed to have at least a 20 GB hard drive in the console, you can write your load caching routines around it, or use it for your application's storage needs. To a developer, an optional hard drive is roughly equivalent to no hard drive at all.Brian Hastings

4: 360's GPU has slight edge over PS3's.

The GPUs on the Xbox 360 and PS3 are roughly equivalent, with the Xbox 360 arguably having a slight edge.Brian Hastings

5: PS3 has major CPU advantage over 360.

The difference in CPU power, however, is far greater with the PS3 enjoying the advantage. The PS3's eight parallel CPUs (one primary "PPU" and seven Cell processors) give it potentially far more computing power than the three parallel CPUs in the Xbox 360. Just about any tech programmer will tell you that the PS3's CPUs are significantly more powerful.Brian Hastings

So there you have it. Anything that disputes these points that doesn't come from another developer will be ignored, or proclaimed as bunk. However if another dev disputes this then we will finally have a real discussion in the gaming world about the real limitations of both of these consoles.

 

1. So Gears is better and on 360, i hardly see anything PS3 positive here

2. 50GB are good, 2-3 DVD's are as good !!!

3. 360 HAS a HDD, and Oblivion USE it to the max, especially with he latest patch, so PS3 has no real advantage here

4. Again .... 360 wins, but it has more USUABLE ram too, since those 256 more MB on PS3 have to be accessed by one hell of a slow proccess, when on 360 they are accessed by CPU or GPU immediately

5. Major i would not call it, let aside that it can never be fully utilised, but having ONE core is barely a better thing for games, for HD movies maybe, NOT for game code

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klactose

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#41 klactose
Member since 2003 • 1167 Posts
In response to reason five, as far as I know, the Cells that actually have as many as eight working processors aren't used in the PS3. They're used for military and medical. I think the PS3 cell processors only have 5 or 6 working cells, but this is really old, so it might have changed, or they might have found a more effecient way to manufacture the processors.Tylendal
Well that may actually be the case, I'm not sure. But he did say that the cell "potentially" has far more power. That "potentially" is very important, it is an admittance that it is not yet realized. However a systems potential is important, and until another Dev says differently, I'll have to take his word on the potential of the PS3's CPU verses that of the 360's.
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#42 billing
Member since 2004 • 642 Posts

Didnt he say that Xbox Live was $70 a year? his credibility was lost when he said that.MrGrimFandango

He prob doesn't even own a 360 and he's knocking on it...

I would think developers are true gamers and own all system, so they know what they're up agenst.

But then again,

He's from Insomniac....

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useLOGIC

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#43 useLOGIC
Member since 2006 • 2802 Posts

[QUOTE="Tylendal"]In response to reason five, as far as I know, the Cells that actually have as many as eight working processors aren't used in the PS3. They're used for military and medical. I think the PS3 cell processors only have 5 or 6 working cells, but this is really old, so it might have changed, or they might have found a more effecient way to manufacture the processors.klactose
Well that may actually be the case, I'm not sure. But he did say that the cell "potentially" has far more power. That "potentially" is very important, it is an admittance that it is not yet realized. However a systems potential is important, and until another Dev says differently, I'll have to take his word on the potential of the PS3's CPU verses that of the 360's.

the point of all these new ps3 dev tools is to make it easier for devs to realize this power without having ot wait until the end of the lifecycle to see results... expect good stuff over the next year. 

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darrowby88

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#44 darrowby88
Member since 2005 • 861 Posts
insomniac's bread is buttered by sony! of course 'ps3 is better'
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skyvader

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#45 skyvader
Member since 2003 • 946 Posts
Has insomniac made a game for any other platform besides a sony platform?
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LiquidMetal14

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#46 LiquidMetal14
Member since 2003 • 8196 Posts
Didnt he say that Xbox Live was $70 a year? his credibility was lost when he said that.MrGrimFandango
If you read the article you woul'de seen that he stated 50.
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#47 StealthSting
Member since 2006 • 6915 Posts
im betting that true hardcore gamers will get sick of wii's lack of depth. minigame-type games only go so faruseLOGIC
I was on the verge of quitting gaming altogether probably very soon, was it not for my interest in what the Wii and DS could bring. There are like 4 mini games in the dam console......
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#48 Art_of_Chilling
Member since 2003 • 5887 Posts
Sounds like damage control seeing as insomniac has never even made a 360 game
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#49 MrGrimFandango
Member since 2005 • 5286 Posts

[QUOTE="MrGrimFandango"]Didnt he say that Xbox Live was $70 a year? his credibility was lost when he said that.LiquidMetal14
If you read the article you woul'de seen that he stated 50.

 

UH, how bout this. I don't recall spening $70, ever on XBL and I live in Canada where its higher priced.

 

"Among all the talk about the price of Sony's console, I almost never see anyone mention the significance of Sony's free online service. Xbox Live Gold costs $70 to sign up for 1 year, or $20 for three months."

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#50 Tylendal
Member since 2006 • 14681 Posts

[QUOTE="klactose"][QUOTE="Tylendal"]In response to reason five, as far as I know, the Cells that actually have as many as eight working processors aren't used in the PS3. They're used for military and medical. I think the PS3 cell processors only have 5 or 6 working cells, but this is really old, so it might have changed, or they might have found a more effecient way to manufacture the processors.useLOGIC

Well that may actually be the case, I'm not sure. But he did say that the cell "potentially" has far more power. That "potentially" is very important, it is an admittance that it is not yet realized. However a systems potential is important, and until another Dev says differently, I'll have to take his word on the potential of the PS3's CPU verses that of the 360's.

the point of all these new ps3 dev tools is to make it easier for devs to realize this power without having ot wait until the end of the lifecycle to see results... expect good stuff over the next year.

Potential is the keyword. I'm sure they'll develop better techniques for building cell processors soon, but until now, the failure rate is pretty high.