From http://vrworld.com/2016/05/11/amd-confirms-sony-playstation-neo-based-zen-polaris/
The new 14nm FinFET APU consists out of eight x86 ‘Zen Lite’ LP cores at 2.1 GHz (they’re not Jaguar cores, as previously rumored) and a Polaris GPU, operating on 15-20% faster clock than the original PS4.
"ZEN Lite" reminds me of K7 Duron vs K7 Athlon i.e. perhaps L2 cache is reduced and L3 cache is reduced/removed.
AMD ZEN CPU core has SMT,.... perhaps PS4 NEO's "ZEN Lite" has SMT disabled.
With 20 percent clock speed increase for GPU i.e. 960 Mhz and 36 CU yields 4.4 TFLOPS.
I hope that is true and there is some sort of a nice trade in program. Otherwise my only interest really is discussing and analysing the technology. Still seems like not much of an improvement and they had trouble shrinking the jaguar? what does this all mean fro slim lower price vanilla ps4s and xboxones.
@Syn_Valence: I didn't check the difference but considering the PS4 CPU was the main source of bottleneck in many games even a 10% increase would make a difference.
I hope that is true and there is some sort of a nice trade in program. Otherwise my only interest really is discussing and analysing the technology. Still seems like not much of an improvement and they had trouble shrinking the jaguar? what does this all mean fro slim lower price vanilla ps4s and xboxones.
AMD "ZEN Lite" should be similar to Intel i7 Haswell with 8 core at 2.1 Ghz clock speed and gimp desktop PC features e.g. L2 cache size reduction, disabled SMT, re-moved L3 cache.
8 Core ZEN at 1.6 Ghz ~= 8 Core Jaguar at 3.2 Ghz
8 Core ZEN at 2.1 Ghz ~= 8 Core Jaguar at 4.2 Ghz.
@Syn_Valence: Yeah for example AC Unity had a huge issues which large crowds which were heavily dependent on the CPU. As a result the console versions had major dips in the frame rate and the PS4 even with its faster GPU had trouble because the source of the performance drop was the CPU.
If they had a faster CPU, it could have operated to be up to par with the GPU and gave a higher and smoother performance.
If true, every PS4 owner should dump their PS4s and get the NeO. I have a gold PS4 I got from Taco Bell promo that I gave to my sis. I wish I sold it for profit but my sis wanted it. Instead of getting it back I'm getting the NeO instead. Can't wait to play updated versions of Uncharted, Ratchet, Bloodborne, etc., upgrades exclusive to the NeO. Sony has to be dumb if they don't patch their games.
If true, every PS4 owner should dump their PS4s and get the NeO. I have a gold PS4 I got from Taco Bell promo that I gave to my sis. I wish I sold it for profit but my sis wanted it. Instead of getting it back I'm getting the NeO instead. Can't wait to play updated versions of Uncharted, Ratchet, Bloodborne, etc., upgrades exclusive to the NeO. Sony has to be dumb if they don't patch their games.
It's up to the developers to patch their games, not to Sony
From http://vrworld.com/2016/05/11/amd-confirms-sony-playstation-neo-based-zen-polaris/
The new 14nm FinFET APU consists out of eight x86 ‘Zen Lite’ LP cores at 2.1 GHz (they’re not Jaguar cores, as previously rumored) and a Polaris GPU, operating on 15-20% faster clock than the original PS4.
"ZEN Lite" reminds me of K7 Duron vs K7 Athlon i.e. perhaps L2 cache is reduced and L3 cache is reduced/removed.
AMD ZEN CPU core has SMT,.... perhaps PS4 NEO's "ZEN Lite" has SMT disabled.
With 20 percent clock speed increase for GPU i.e. 960 Mhz and 36 CU yields 4.4 TFLOPS.
So I assume even Zen Lite would probably offer a pretty good performance boost over the older jaguar, not to mention the faster clock rate.
Good, keeping the older Jaguar would have been too much of a bottleneck, even clocked at 2.1 Ghz.
I'm just curious how they were able to shift to new CPU cores and GPU architecture without running into any problems in regards to legacy PS4 software.
From http://vrworld.com/2016/05/11/amd-confirms-sony-playstation-neo-based-zen-polaris/
The new 14nm FinFET APU consists out of eight x86 ‘Zen Lite’ LP cores at 2.1 GHz (they’re not Jaguar cores, as previously rumored) and a Polaris GPU, operating on 15-20% faster clock than the original PS4.
"ZEN Lite" reminds me of K7 Duron vs K7 Athlon i.e. perhaps L2 cache is reduced and L3 cache is reduced/removed.
AMD ZEN CPU core has SMT,.... perhaps PS4 NEO's "ZEN Lite" has SMT disabled.
With 20 percent clock speed increase for GPU i.e. 960 Mhz and 36 CU yields 4.4 TFLOPS.
So I assume even Zen Lite would probably offer a pretty good performance boost over the older jaguar, not to mention the faster clock rate.
Good, keeping the older Jaguar would have been too much of a bottleneck, even clocked at 2.1 Ghz.
I'm just curious how they were able to shift to new CPU cores and GPU architecture without running into any problems in regards to legacy PS4 software.
For BC, it's X86 advantage and PS4's low level APIs (low level presentation layer) are above Radeon HD driver. PS4's operating system is FreeBSD X86-64.
The presentation layers are Sony's software construction.
PS4's low level APIs are still APIs i.e. very efficient APIs.
For legacy support., AMD ZEN has enough compute power to abstract low level APIs i.e. can't be worst than DX11.
PS4's OS is a multitasking system hence OS+drivers governs the machine.
PS4's OS(FreeBSD based) is Sony's Android (Linux based) or MacOS X (Darwin/Mach based). PS4's games runs on top of Sony's software platform.
From http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-inside-playstation-4
"One of them is the absolute low-level API, you're talking directly to the hardware. It's used to draw the static RAM buffers and feed them directly to the GPU," Norden shared. "It's much, much lower level than you're used to with DirectX or OpenGLbut it's not quite at the driver level. It's very similar if you've programmed PS3 or PS Vita, very similar to those graphics libraries."
Probably there favourite customer and makes sense for their master plan lol. Plus amd wants vr to grow too. MS should really support the other devices on there next console iteration.
I hope that is true and there is some sort of a nice trade in program. Otherwise my only interest really is discussing and analysing the technology. Still seems like not much of an improvement and they had trouble shrinking the jaguar? what does this all mean fro slim lower price vanilla ps4s and xboxones.
AMD "ZEN Lite" should be similar to Intel i7 Haswell with 8 core at 2.1 Ghz clock speed and gimp desktop PC features e.g. L2 cache size reduction, disabled SMT, re-moved L3 cache.
8 Core ZEN at 1.6 Ghz ~= 8 Core Jaguar at 3.2 Ghz
8 Core ZEN at 2.1 Ghz ~= 8 Core Jaguar at 4.2 Ghz.
Very Interesting hophely there is more hidden up ticks.
If Dark Souls 3 PC has excessive draw calls, it would gimp PC's CPU. This is not a problem for DX12 or console APIs.
Intel Core i7-6700K at 2.5 Ghz works fine with SW BF PC's DX11.
PC's DX9/10/11 requires draw calls reduction workarounds which is not a problem for DX12 or console APIs.
The new PS4 NEO spec follows AMD's entry level "VR Ready" green colored spec.
Also, Zen is a much more capable architecture than Vishera. >40% IPC improvement, much needed cache system overhaul, CMT -> SMT with true, full cores instead of 2:1 modules, 14nm FinFET.. I can't wait to see some benchmarks and overclocking results of the desktop variants.
Hookin' up Apple too I see. They need to get into a portable somehow.
They're developing new tech to expand their influence in the mobile market. Namely, they're creating new types of SoC's with even more components on a single die, like storage for instance. The latency reduction, lower cost, simpler design implementation, and further next gen enhancements should allow atleast a slow push into the tablet and phone markets.
Also, with Microsoft planning to essentially make their phones into portable PC's running Win10 and DirectX, AMD may end up supplying the hardware for a new type of mobile gaming, playing PC games on your phone.
From http://vrworld.com/2016/05/11/amd-confirms-sony-playstation-neo-based-zen-polaris/
The new 14nm FinFET APU consists out of eight x86 ‘Zen Lite’ LP cores at 2.1 GHz (they’re not Jaguar cores, as previously rumored) and a Polaris GPU, operating on 15-20% faster clock than the original PS4.
"ZEN Lite" reminds me of K7 Duron vs K7 Athlon i.e. perhaps L2 cache is reduced and L3 cache is reduced/removed.
AMD ZEN CPU core has SMT,.... perhaps PS4 NEO's "ZEN Lite" has SMT disabled.
With 20 percent clock speed increase for GPU i.e. 960 Mhz and 36 CU yields 4.4 TFLOPS.
So I assume even Zen Lite would probably offer a pretty good performance boost over the older jaguar, not to mention the faster clock rate.
Good, keeping the older Jaguar would have been too much of a bottleneck, even clocked at 2.1 Ghz.
I'm just curious how they were able to shift to new CPU cores and GPU architecture without running into any problems in regards to legacy PS4 software.
The PS4 NEO's IP blocks resembles the cut-down version from FinFET super SoC
PS4 NEO has 8 ZEN Lite CPU cores, while Workstation PC version has 16 ZEN CPU cores.
From http://vrworld.com/2016/05/11/amd-confirms-sony-playstation-neo-based-zen-polaris/
The new 14nm FinFET APU consists out of eight x86 ‘Zen Lite’ LP cores at 2.1 GHz (they’re not Jaguar cores, as previously rumored) and a Polaris GPU, operating on 15-20% faster clock than the original PS4.
"ZEN Lite" reminds me of K7 Duron vs K7 Athlon i.e. perhaps L2 cache is reduced and L3 cache is reduced/removed.
AMD ZEN CPU core has SMT,.... perhaps PS4 NEO's "ZEN Lite" has SMT disabled.
With 20 percent clock speed increase for GPU i.e. 960 Mhz and 36 CU yields 4.4 TFLOPS.
So I assume even Zen Lite would probably offer a pretty good performance boost over the older jaguar, not to mention the faster clock rate.
Good, keeping the older Jaguar would have been too much of a bottleneck, even clocked at 2.1 Ghz.
I'm just curious how they were able to shift to new CPU cores and GPU architecture without running into any problems in regards to legacy PS4 software.
The PS4 NEO's IP blocks resembles the cut-down version from super FinFET SoC
PS4 NEO has 8 ZEN Lite CPU cores, while Workstation PC version has 16 ZEN CPU cores.
Ahhh, so Zen has two threads per core vs Jaguar's single thread per core. That's definitely an improvement.
I hope that is true and there is some sort of a nice trade in program. Otherwise my only interest really is discussing and analysing the technology. Still seems like not much of an improvement and they had trouble shrinking the jaguar? what does this all mean fro slim lower price vanilla ps4s and xboxones.
AMD "ZEN Lite" should be similar to Intel i7 Haswell with 8 core at 2.1 Ghz clock speed and gimp desktop PC features e.g. L2 cache size reduction, disabled SMT, re-moved L3 cache.
8 Core ZEN at 1.6 Ghz ~= 8 Core Jaguar at 3.2 Ghz
8 Core ZEN at 2.1 Ghz ~= 8 Core Jaguar at 4.2 Ghz.
@Syn_Valence: Yeah for example AC Unity had a huge issues which large crowds which were heavily dependent on the CPU. As a result the console versions had major dips in the frame rate and the PS4 even with its faster GPU had trouble because the source of the performance drop was the CPU.
If they had a faster CPU, it could have operated to be up to par with the GPU and gave a higher and smoother performance.
It wasn't the CPU the problem,stated by Ubisoft them self,the game was freaking screw up even on PC.
In fact Ubisoft claimed that it lower the number of units on screen and the problem was still there,and then the game was 900p which will not give you faster frames if the issue is really CPU oriented.
The same crap was say about the witcher 3 and people like you here claimed it was the CPU and claim the xbox one version was faster because it had a faster CPU which ended being a lie.
ACU was a screw up game hold back by the 3rd party it self to avoid arguments and stuff by their own words,reality is i am sure MS payed for the game to be faster on xbox one,after all MS bough from Ubisof like 4 million copies of ACU and ACBF as well,which were bundle free on holiday 2014.
In fact the xbox one version at times was more than 6 frames ahead of the PS4,when there is no fu**ing way that you will win 6 FPS or more on a 150mhz CPU difference even less using that shitty jaguar.
@StrongBlackVine: like what exactly?, every neo/4.5 based thing seems to rely on this what we think it is. Heck even MS shot down the idea of xbone 1.5, It's like none of you get that rumors are rarely right & sites are only talking about this because there's nothing else too talk about console wise beyond what Nintendo doing with there NX.
@tormentos: Unity Works well on the PC now. The main issues were glitches and crashes from what I remember. On launch I had compared it to my 7850+4790K and my setup was doing significantly better at higher settings. I figured the CPU was the issue on PS4 as AC games are typically very hungry on it.
Why? You think xbox under the leadership of Phil Spencer is going to allow Sony to have the more powerful machine again? MS has 90 billion in in offshore accounts just sitting there to be used. MS could easily build a more powerful machine this time.
AMD relationship with Microsoft is rock solid. You even see AMD promoting Dx12, they want that Api to be used for newer games. Total Warhammer and Battlefield 1 are all going to be build with DX12.
Is not the CPU at all probably a memory problem rather in fact DF claim the engine look to be struggling to get things in and out of memory.
How come all this places the PS4 is up to 12 FPS faster with all those NPC.?
But here with barely any one the PS4 is 4FPS behind.? Funny enough is Paris the level that took the most to load in both platforms the problem.
This ^^ is not a CPU bottleneck there is hardly anything going on,probably a memory write problem.
And is further proven by this ^^ which DF claim doesn't happen on PS4 on this section,so as you can see if the CPU was the culprit this ^^ scene would also cause a drop on PS4.
@doom456_ said:
@StrongBlackVine: like what exactly?, every neo/4.5 based thing seems to rely on this what we think it is. Heck even MS shot down the idea of xbone 1.5, It's like none of you get that rumors are rarely right & sites are only talking about this because there's nothing else too talk about console wise beyond what Nintendo doing with there NX.
No we have sources like DF confirming it does exist and now AMD,from what i get here a die shrink would have being very expensive,so in other words what sony did knowing it would pay probably as much for a die shrink than for a new soc,well they went with a new soc with more powerful components that but doesn't disrupt compatibility between both models,is actually a great idea.
But this probably mean that PS4 neo will replace the older PS4 in store shelves after some time,because die shrink and reduce component is vital in consoles so that prices can go down.
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