"NX not aiming to compete with PS4 on a power level"

Aye, iphone was just an example of a current phone. Still, that bioshock game points to what developers are currently getting out of phones, and it's shit.

Even your own numbers point to the Wii U being stronger than the S6. It's closer than I thought though.

Uncharted's never been downgraded though, only improved. And Uncharted 4 is the most impressive game shown at e3.

And please don't show me the UC3 comparison shot of the pre-rendered scene with Chloe, because that's pre-rendered :P and a different time of day.

Nintendo doesn't have a choice but to make the NX as strong as the X1 at least. That should get them the 3rd party support and the install base. If its not as strong as the X1 it would be underpowered and 3rd party devs might still ignore it and that would be silly.

You're right the sales would be crap for the Wii U version of arkham knight.

But aren't third parties dumbing games when they put them on consoles vs what the PC can pull off? Sounds like the very sacrifice you're saying they wouldn't make for the Wii U and yet they do it every time.

And I'm not sure how games like arkham city sell on PC but is it really more than console sales?

@Bread_or_Decide: I don't know why you are bringing PCs into this at all. We were talking about the wii u.

Because you asked why they would dumb down a game for Wii U. They dumb down games for consoles all the time. PC being a prime example of that.

Thank you! Most gamers I've seen call themselves "hardcore" never once cared about Nintendo compared to others, besides typical sucking up to the SNES, sudden flip-flopping love for the GameCube (as of the Wii's release) and only buying games with their names on it if they have ANOTHER dev involved (eg: Rare). Hell, I've even had arguments with users like champ and Gue over the SNES library, and they both said the first party "did nothing" for SNES compared to third parties.

The difference is minor when compared to the old Intel Ivybridge era mobile Intel HD 4000 IGP which is about twice as fast. The results speak for themselves i.e. Wii U is a failure. XBO has exceeded Wii U unit sales sometime ago. Bioshock is not the best looking game graphics on handhelds.

Older Intel Haswell IGP, Broadwell IGP and new Skylake IGP has replaced Ivybridge IGP.

Ivybridge -> Haswell -> Broadwell -> Skylake.

@ronvalencia: What would you say is the most impressive mobile game graphically?

Infinity Blade III

Modern Combat 5: Blackout

Asphalt 8: Airborne

Leo's Fortune

Godfire: Rise of Prometheus

Unreal Engine 3 is available on iOS and Android.

My points,

1. Wii U doesn't have a monopoly on touch screen casual gaming experience.

2. Xbox One covers semi-serious entry level HD/near full HD(1280x720p/1600x900p) gaming which includes wide party 3rd party support.

3. For the most part, PS4 covers semi-serious full HD(1920x1080p) gaming which includes wide party 3rd party support.

I haven't factored in the world's largest single gaming platform i.e. Microsoft's Windows PC which ranges from touch screen casuals to serious/hard-core gaming. Windows 10 will boost Windows PC gaming at all levels e.g. increasing mainstream AMD/Intel IGP performance for causals/ semi-serious and discrete GPUs for serious/hard-core gaming.

Wii U's exclusives wasn't enough to drive the platform from being a failure relative to Xbox One and PS4. Wii U's results speak for themselves.

Nintendo should have learnt from Wii U's underpowered hardware results.

From AMD's POV, they are disappointed with Wii U's results. XBO or PS4 level SoCs are available for Nintendo. OEMs like Nintendo should not be under the current gen desktop PC AMD APUs.

PS; I do want Wii U to be successful as with XBO and PS4, but this is not the case.

A flat 8 GB memory model that doesn't compete against PS4's 8 GB GDDR5 indicates DDR3 or DDR4 memory setup. It's difficult to setup 8 GB GDDR5 with 128bit bus i.e. 4 GB is max with current memory module capacity.

GCN Tonga's ROPS compression/decompression improvements makes 256bit DDR4-3000 to a reasonable solution.

Makes sense since PS4 is the world's most powerful video game console in the history of video games. Would be silly for them to try and compete with that,

Hopefully, NX should have at least 256bit DDR4-3000 or DDR3-2400, Tonga GCN's ROPS/tessellation/8 ACE units improvements, 12 CU at 925Mhz (1.420 TFLOPS). I estimate effective ROPS(using Tonga) bandwidth around 143 GB/s with physical 95 GB/s bandwidth from 256bit DDR4-3000.

The alternative would be 128bit GDDR5-6000 1GB (just for frame buffer without tiling) and 8GB 128bit DDR4-3000 (for the texture storage). AMD can embedded 128bit GDDR5-6000 chips on the chip package without using HBM. I estimate effective ROPS(using Tonga) bandwidth around 144 GB/s with physical 96 GB/s bandwidth from 128bit GDDR5-6000.

Tonga GCN's tessellation improvements should give the GPU some different characteristics compared to earlier GCNs i.e. NVIDIA's style workload model.

The chip size would be around 160 mm^2 which is similar to current Wii U's chip size.

Unknown if Nintendo will do another ESRAM or EDRAM setup, but I don't like this setup since it usually result in large chip area with compromised ALU shader power.

PS; GCN = AMD's Graphics Core Next.

While all of that sounds nice, would even surpass current gen by miles, however knowing Nintendo they will just keep on not listen to their fans nor 3rd parties.

My chip area size is already smaller than AMD ultrabook A10-8700p//FX-8800 SoC's 244 mm^2 chip area and XBO's 365 mm^2 chip size (half of the area size is consumed by 32MB ESRAM).

Using XBO's 365 mm^2 chip area size could have yielded R9-285 Tonga Pro (28 CU) class IGP. XBO should have been configured like a gaming PC i.e. 8 GB 128bit DDR3 with 2GB 256bit GDDR5.

2 GB 256bit GDDR5 handles the frame buffer and immediate texture data storage.

8 GB 128bit DDR3 handles the rest of the texture data storage and CPU work space.

I didn't like PS4's 8 GDDR5 setup since the raster frame buffer operations has no business with GpGPU-to-CPU interactions. On the PC, the CPU doesn't degrade GPU's memory bandwidth while this is a problem on PS4.

Hopefully, Nintendo learnt something from Wii U's failure and XBO's titling issues.

......What? Speak English Please?.......

If Nintendo taught us anything with the WiiU it's that they purposely exclude 3rd-parties by gimping the hardware just below current gen specs. By this measure the NX will be slightly weaker than PS4, probably something like a XO with some sort of half-baked gimmick that they won't commit to. Sure it makes me sad, but it's the disgusting truth.

With XBO's very large chip size, MS wasted a lot of opportunities in their quest to follow Xbox 360's configuration instead of gaming PC configuration i.e. XBO could been a device like a PC with Radeon HD R9-285 or dual Radeon HD 7790 (CrossFire mode).

XBO's 32MB ESRAM consumed a lot chip area space for inferior-than-PS4 results. Sony focused on ALU shader power for their chip area size budget which is the correct choice.

Nintendo should NOT be worst than AMD's current off-the-self desktop APU solution.

OOOOOOOOOOOooh, Okay! Now I get it! Although I do wish Nintendo would use Zen, but that will be highly unlikely....

For low budget build, GPU should have a higher priority over CPU. Again, Sony made the right choice. The PS4's design principles should be applied for NX e.g. build the best 160 mm^2 chip area size solution.

PS4's chip area size is 348 mm^2 which is less than XBO's 365 mm^2 chip area size and PS4 has superior performance over XBO.

Both XBO and PS4 has similar chip size budget, same licensed AMD IP and different performance results.

@Bread_or_Decide: It's just a tactic Nintendo fanboys use to take every conversation off on a tangent because they can't defend Nintendo on it's own terms.

@walloftruth: I've made this point a million times over. These people don't care. They bring the PC up to change the subject, and for no other reason. The Wii U, and Nintendo as an extension, cannot stand on it's own merits. "All consoles are weak/bad". "Nintendo was only ever meant to be a secondary console."

You claim Nintendo is behind on technology, they bring up PC.

Well let's put this to bed. Individuals with enough money could potentially create a PC that would put NASA computers to shame. They can also build their computers mid gen, whereas the consoles are built to be affordable to the masses and last all gen with the same tech.

Ultra PCs are not what the majority of developers are making games for. You cannot judge the standard by the extreme. The standard, is what the developers are making games for and what most gamers are accustomed to. The average PC at around the time of the fresh new consoles, and the new consoles themselves, are what the standard is. Nintendo deliberately chooses to be below the standard, significantly so. Therefore bringing PC into this conversation is nothing more than a cheap tactic.

Good for you, because many will continuously make excuses for them when they lie to you instead of holding them accountable. People should not be a corporate slave. They take your money, that's your loyalty. They owe you after that. Hold them accountable.

not trying to compete in 2017 with a system that has a CPU equivalent to a 2009's AMD quad core and a 2011 level GPU

last nintendo was 100% equivalent to past gen, looks like next nintendo is even weaker

This will depend on the price of the console. If the console costs $200 or less than it will most likely not be as powerful as the ps4 and the xbox one. If it's $250 it will probably be close to the xbox one and maybe the PS4, but I doubt it. If it costs $300 it will probably be as powerful as both or slightly stronger depending on the console's features.

So many posts and arguments over a rumor?

Every console fanboy group hides behind the PC.

*their

From http://wccftech.com/amd-game-console-arm-x86-architecture/

From Devinder Kumar, AMD’s CFO

“I will say that one [design win] is x86 and [another] is ARM, and at least one will [be] beyond gaming, right. But that is about as much as you going to get out me today. From the standpoint [of being] fair to [customers], it is their product, and they launch it. They are going to announce it and then […] you will find out that it is AMD’s APU that is being used in those products.”

One of AMD's semi-customised APU is for gaming.

AMD expects the two new design wins to bag a lifetime combined total revenue of approximately $1 billion over around a span of three years starting from 2016. It has already been revealed that both the new semi-custom chips would feature integrated Radeon graphics, and while one of them would be based on the company’s ARM architecture, the other one would feature x86 general-purpose cores.

Notice common "year 2016" time frame.

http://www.wired.com/2015/07/nintendo-nx-e3/

Another mention of NX came during an interview with Metroid Prime producer Kensuke Tanabe, in which he said a future high-def, home-version Metroid Prime title would have to appear on the NX, rather than Wii U.

High-definition resolution target for the next Metroid Prime.

Wii ewww