For those in denial, Dark Souls is JRPG, not a WRPG

[QUOTE="RavenLoud"][QUOTE="NeonNinja"]

Ah, that's Resonance of Fate. I've been curious to play the game but I've held off for a long time. How is it in terms of characters and plot? I've heard a lot of great stuff about the combat, but I've heard little about anything else.

NeonNinja

Sounds good man. I'll look to pick it up once I finish my current RPG line-up: Fallout: New Vegas, The Witcher, Star Wars: KotOR and Dark Souls. Yeah, I've got a soft spot for the genre. :P

Have you played Tales of Vesperia? Would you say the characters in Resonance of Fate are anywhere near as cool/funny as that crew?

[QUOTE="Tikeio"]

[QUOTE="mitu123"]

Have we came to a conclusion yet?

Chrome-

Western RPG = RPG from the West

Japanese RPG = RPG from Japan

But for some reason, people think these are "genres" instead of regional terms...

Just RPGs. The only reason Japan and The West are divided by regions is because they're the most relevant and influential.

[QUOTE="Chrome-"][QUOTE="Tikeio"]

Western RPG = RPG from the West

Japanese RPG = RPG from Japan

But for some reason, people think these are "genres" instead of regional terms...

Tikeio

Just RPGs. The only reason Japan and The West are divided by regions is because they're the most relevant and influential.

How come games like The Witcher, and Mount and Blade fall under the WRPG label?

[QUOTE="smerlus"][QUOTE="hakanakumono"]

Congratulations, you've equated every JRPG with FFVII and FFX.

Moving on, considering your assertion that JRPGs are devoid of any original elements that did not originate in WRPGs, please refer me to the WRPG that pioneered this battle system originated from because I'd really be interested in playing it:

link

I didn't say that "only FF was "over" stylized."

A "minor tweak?" Turn based combat? The combat can barely be defined as "turn based." It is not even command based. If the combat cannot even be defined as "turn based," but under your judgement does not constitute any meaningful deviation from turn based combat, then there are no meaningful changes to be made in RPG combat whatsoever.

Not to mention the other elements of the combat that completely change the way damage is dealt.

But of course, you're being completely disingenous. You would have to be to deny that the game plays completely differently from this:

"Next question?" You did not answer the question. If you can explain to me which JRPG pioneered the idea of "scratch damage" (read: impermanent damage that is set by another type of damage) in a way that dominated the gameplay, feel free to contribute. Otherwise, you're trolling.

[QUOTE="hakanakumono"]

[QUOTE="smerlus"] Wow how ironic...you say only FF;s are over stylized then link to a movie where people are doing the kama sutra of gymnastics 50 feet in the air just to shoot people. And like i guessed earlier, you're one of those people that take minor tweaks to turn based combat as huge innovations. I'm glad you proved me right twice with a single movie. next question.smerlus

I didn't say that "only FF was "over" stylized."

A "minor tweak?" Turn based combat? The combat can barely be defined as "turn based." It is not even command based. If the combat cannot even be defined as "turn based," but under your judgement does not constitute any meaningful deviation from turn based combat, then there are no meaningful changes to be made in RPG combat whatsoever.

Not to mention the other elements of the combat that completely change the way damage is dealt.

But of course, you're being completely disingenous. You would have to be to deny that the game plays completely differently from this:

"Next question?" You did not answer the question. If you can explain to me which JRPG pioneered the idea of "scratch damage" (read: impermanent damage that is set by another type of damage) in a way that dominated the gameplay, feel free to contribute. Otherwise, you're trolling.

I don't think you understand what scratch damage is. You are the fool here. You clearly did not even spend the time to achieve basic understanding of the combat system he provided. That smug attitude also doesn't help your argument as much as you seem to believe. Keep those deluded dribble coming, I sense that it will be fun.

RavenLoud

According to Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Western_role-playing_video_games

WRPGs are RPGs developed in the western world. So it's a geographical reference.

[QUOTE="hakanakumono"]

[QUOTE="smerlus"] Wow how ironic...you say only FF;s are over stylized then link to a movie where people are doing the kama sutra of gymnastics 50 feet in the air just to shoot people. And like i guessed earlier, you're one of those people that take minor tweaks to turn based combat as huge innovations. I'm glad you proved me right twice with a single movie. next question.smerlus

I didn't say that "only FF was "over" stylized."

A "minor tweak?" Turn based combat? The combat can barely be defined as "turn based." It is not even command based. If the combat cannot even be defined as "turn based," but under your judgement does not constitute any meaningful deviation from turn based combat, then there are no meaningful changes to be made in RPG combat whatsoever.

Not to mention the other elements of the combat that completely change the way damage is dealt.

But of course, you're being completely disingenous. You would have to be to deny that the game plays completely differently from this:

"Next question?" You did not answer the question. If you can explain to me which JRPG pioneered the idea of "scratch damage" (read: impermanent damage that is set by another type of damage) in a way that dominated the gameplay, feel free to contribute. Otherwise, you're trolling.

First of all, typing "yawn" isn't going to impress me. Attempting to appear disinterested is a painfully transparent attempt to conceal your inability to back up an argument based on ethnocentrism and it isn't going to impress anyone in SW.

Suggesting that "turn based combat is still turn based" is about as useful as saying an "FPS is still an FPS." So what, there can be no meaningful changes within a genre as long as it remains in its genre? I'm not suggesting that every turn based game plays like the game in my picture. You are the one who is suggesting that there is no "spectrum," with your previous "_ is still _" comment. However, most JRPGs play far more similar to the game in my picture than the game from the clip I showed you. I am not aware of any games that utilize some of the gameplay elements that it employs. So either turn based games are all the same and have no meaningful changes, or are a "spectrum" that do include meaningful changes. Which one is it?

And yet again, you did not answer the quesiton. Two more red herrings, one of which is an attempt to appear as an authority. "Scratch damage" is the term the game uses. The game employs "scratch damage" (which ironically does the most (potential) damage), and then "direct damage" which provides permanent damage and makes permanent any damage that has been made in scratch damage. They also have other functions like direct damage breaking enemy parts to acquire more bezels so that you don't run out of turns. I assume you're following all of this, because evidently it all originated in WRPGs.

[QUOTE="RavenLoud"] I don't think you understand what scratch damage is. You are the fool here. You clearly did not even spend the time to achieve basic understanding of the combat system he provided. That smug attitude also doesn't help your argument as much as you seem to believe. Keep those deluded dribble coming, I sense that it will be fun.

smerlus

No, he's right. You really have no idea what you're talking about. It's clear that you made judgements before any attempt to understand the game at its most fundamental level.

Scratch Damage vs. Direct Damage

Resonance of Fateis packing not one, but two different kinds of damage: Scratch Damage and Direct Damage. Scratch Damage appears in blue over an HP Gauge, and representspotentialdamage. It recovers as time passes, and has no long-term effects. Direct Damage, on the other hand, is much more permanent. It can only be healed under special circumstances. The key is using the two together.

When an enemy or character takes Direct Damage when his HP bar has Scratch Damage built up, the Direct Damage will convert all of the Scratch Damage into Direct Damage. As a rule, Scratch Damage is easier to deal in large quantities, while Direct Damage is smaller and more limited on its own, so a common strategy is to use the two in conjunction; first one, then the other.

http://rpgland.com/sega/everything-youll-ever-need-to-know-about-resonance-of-fate-part-1-the-battle-system/#hp-damage

WRPGs are RPGs developed in the western world. So it's a geographical reference.

jhcho2

Both sides make such compelling arguments I don't know what to believe...

I think...I'm going to make a sandwich.

Both sides make such compelling arguments I don't know what to believe...

I think...I'm going to make a sandwich.

Ross_the_Boss6

I'm surprised it's gone on this long, actually. You'll notice a bit of jeering in the first few pages with some people saying they never seen anyone say it and we don't need a topic on this. 400 posts later: In. Their. Faces! :P

Providing a good bit of debate, so I'm happy.

[QUOTE="jhcho2"]

WRPGs are RPGs developed in the western world. So it's a geographical reference.

AdrianWerner

While I dont agree with jhcho2 (he was proven wrong so many times in this thread that I wont even get into it), Witcher 2 actually was developed in western world (Poland).

[QUOTE="AdrianWerner"]

[QUOTE="jhcho2"]

WRPGs are RPGs developed in the western world. So it's a geographical reference.

BlbecekBobecek

While I dont agree with jhcho2 (he was proven wrong so many times in this thread that I wont even get into it), Witcher 2 actually was developed in western world (Poland).

The definition of "the West" does not include Poland.

[QUOTE="BlbecekBobecek"]

[QUOTE="AdrianWerner"]Then Witcher 2 isn't wRPG

SW__Troll

While I dont agree with jhcho2 (he was proven wrong so many times in this thread that I wont even get into it), Witcher 2 actually was developed in western world (Poland).

The definition of "the West" does not include Poland.

Link?

Poland is part of European Union and culturally and historically belongs to the western civilization since about 500 years before America was discovered. What makes you think it does not?

[QUOTE="SW__Troll"]

[QUOTE="BlbecekBobecek"]

While I dont agree with jhcho2 (he was proven wrong so many times in this thread that I wont even get into it), Witcher 2 actually was developed in western world (Poland).

BlbecekBobecek

The definition of "the West" does not include Poland.

Link?

Poland is part of European Union and culturally and historically belongs to the western civilization since about 500 years before America was discovered. What makes you think it does not?

Because it was behind the iron curtain. Eastern europe has been considered the east for years.

And not one of the idiots who is claiming its purely geographical can answer why we make the geopgraphical distinction on RPGs but absolutely no other game?

[QUOTE="BlbecekBobecek"]

[QUOTE="SW__Troll"]

The definition of "the West" does not include Poland.

Chemical_Viking

Link?

Poland is part of European Union and culturally and historically belongs to the western civilization since about 500 years before America was discovered. What makes you think it does not?

Because it was behind the iron curtain. Eastern europe has been considered the east for years.

And not one of the idiots who is claiming its purely geographical can answer why we make the geopgraphical distinction on RPGs but absolutely no other game?

So wait what are you saying that Its a JRPG?

GameSpot/GameFAQs mostly sidesteps this argument by categorising games as "Console-style RPG" and "PC-style RPG".

[QUOTE="BlbecekBobecek"]

[QUOTE="SW__Troll"]

The definition of "the West" does not include Poland.

Chemical_Viking

Link?

Poland is part of European Union and culturally and historically belongs to the western civilization since about 500 years before America was discovered. What makes you think it does not?

Because it was behind the iron curtain. Eastern europe has been considered the east for years.

And not one of the idiots who is claiming its purely geographical can answer why we make the geopgraphical distinction on RPGs but absolutely no other game?

Well it's not only just the Cold War, but even prior to the Cold War Europe used to be heavily split by religion, and empire dating back to the times of the great Roman, and Greek empires.

Western Civilization has always, ALWAYS been used to describe Western Europe, and (through expansion) it also became a descriptor for the USA, and Canada, some parts of Central America/South America, and Australia even.

[QUOTE="Chemical_Viking"]

[QUOTE="BlbecekBobecek"]

Link?

Poland is part of European Union and culturally and historically belongs to the western civilization since about 500 years before America was discovered. What makes you think it does not?

musalala

Because it was behind the iron curtain. Eastern europe has been considered the east for years.

And not one of the idiots who is claiming its purely geographical can answer why we make the geopgraphical distinction on RPGs but absolutely no other game?

So wait what are you saying that Its a JRPG?

Nope. I am firmly in the camp that says it is about genres not origin. Because we don't make distinctions of origin.

First of all, typing "yawn" isn't going to impress me. Attempting to appear disinterested is a painfully transparent attempt to conceal your inability to back up an argument based on ethnocentrism and it isn't going to impress anyone in SW.

Suggesting that "turn based combat is still turn based" is about as useful as saying an "FPS is still an FPS." So what, there can be no meaningful changes within a genre as long as it remains in its genre? I'm not suggesting that every turn based game plays like the game in my picture. You are the one who is suggesting that there is no "spectrum," with your previous "_ is still _" comment. However, most JRPGs play far more similar to the game in my picture than the game from the clip I showed you. I am not aware of any games that utilize some of the gameplay elements that it employs. So either turn based games are all the same and have no meaningful changes, or are a "spectrum" that do include meaningful changes. Which one is it?

And yet again, you did not answer the quesiton. Two more red herrings, one of which is an attempt to appear as an authority. "Scratch damage" is the term the game uses. The game employs "scratch damage" (which ironically does the most (potential) damage), and then "direct damage" which provides permanent damage and makes permanent any damage that has been made in scratch damage. They also have other functions like direct damage breaking enemy parts to acquire more bezels so that you don't run out of turns. I assume you're following all of this, because evidently it all originated in WRPGs.

[QUOTE="BlbecekBobecek"]

[QUOTE="SW__Troll"]

The definition of "the West" does not include Poland.

Chemical_Viking

Link?

Poland is part of European Union and culturally and historically belongs to the western civilization since about 500 years before America was discovered. What makes you think it does not?

Because it was behind the iron curtain. Eastern europe has been considered the east for years.

And not one of the idiots who is claiming its purely geographical can answer why we make the geopgraphical distinction on RPGs but absolutely no other game?

Didnt get your "idiots" sentence, not sure if it was actually meant to make sense, so I will just comment on the Poland:

1) its not eastern Europe, its centralEurope (link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poland ),

2) they (Poles) didnt choose to be behind iron curtain, they were forced to by Russia,

3) the iron curtain lasted 40 years, Poland is part of western civilization for about thousand years.

4) The safest way to distinguish which country is part of the western civilization is by religion and Poland adopted Catholic Christianity in 966 a.d. - religion of the east is Orthodox Christianity.

Poland nation is culturally and historically west. Period. Considering it part of the eastern civilization (where countries such as Ukraine, Belarus, Russia, Bulgaria, etc belong) is not only ignorant, it actually insults all Poles (and I know a few of them, so I know this).

[QUOTE="smerlus"]

[QUOTE="RavenLoud"] I don't think you understand what scratch damage is. You are the fool here. You clearly did not even spend the time to achieve basic understanding of the combat system he provided. That smug attitude also doesn't help your argument as much as you seem to believe. Keep those deluded dribble coming, I sense that it will be fun.

No, he's right. You really have no idea what you're talking about. It's clear that you made judgements before any attempt to understand the game at its most fundamental level.

Scratch Damage vs. Direct Damage

Resonance of Fateis packing not one, but two different kinds of damage: Scratch Damage and Direct Damage. Scratch Damage appears in blue over an HP Gauge, and representspotentialdamage. It recovers as time passes, and has no long-term effects. Direct Damage, on the other hand, is much more permanent. It can only be healed under special circumstances. The key is using the two together.

When an enemy or character takes Direct Damage when his HP bar has Scratch Damage built up, the Direct Damage will convert all of the Scratch Damage into Direct Damage. As a rule, Scratch Damage is easier to deal in large quantities, while Direct Damage is smaller and more limited on its own, so a common strategy is to use the two in conjunction; first one, then the other.

http://rpgland.com/sega/everything-youll-ever-need-to-know-about-resonance-of-fate-part-1-the-battle-system/#hp-damage

[QUOTE="Chemical_Viking"]

[QUOTE="BlbecekBobecek"]

Link?

Poland is part of European Union and culturally and historically belongs to the western civilization since about 500 years before America was discovered. What makes you think it does not?

SW__Troll

Because it was behind the iron curtain. Eastern europe has been considered the east for years.

And not one of the idiots who is claiming its purely geographical can answer why we make the geopgraphical distinction on RPGs but absolutely no other game?

Well it's not only just the Cold War, but even prior to the Cold War Europe used to be heavily split by religion, and empire dating back to the times of the great Roman, and Greek empires.

Western Civilization has always, ALWAYS been used to describe Western Europe, and (through expansion) it also became a descriptor for the USA, and Canada, some parts of Central America/South America, and Australia even.

I DO AGREE with the red parts. The thing is Poland was always, ALWAYS part of the western civilisation (even by religion, as you mention).

I DONT agree with the green part. Great Roman empire was actually a successor of the Greek Empire (it basically started after the era of Alexander The Great) and both those empires represent the western civilization. Persian Empire represented the eastern civlisation back then.

The origins of western civilisation are following (as any student of philosophy or sociology would tell you):

1) Greek philosophy

2) Roman law

3) Christianity.

[QUOTE="SW__Troll"]

[QUOTE="Chemical_Viking"]

Because it was behind the iron curtain. Eastern europe has been considered the east for years.

And not one of the idiots who is claiming its purely geographical can answer why we make the geopgraphical distinction on RPGs but absolutely no other game?

BlbecekBobecek

Well it's not only just the Cold War, but even prior to the Cold War Europe used to be heavily split by religion, and empire dating back to the times of the great Roman, and Greek empires.

Western Civilization has always, ALWAYS been used to describe Western Europe, and (through expansion) it also became a descriptor for the USA, and Canada, some parts of Central America/South America, and Australia even.

I DO AGREE with the red parts. The thing is Poland was always, ALWAYS part of the western civilisation (even by religion, as you mention).

What I meant by religion, and empire, was moreso that Europe has been divided in numerous ways in the past. I wasn't specifying in either case.

I DONT agree with the green part. Great Roman empire was actually a successor of the Greek Empire (it basically started after the era of Alexander The Great) and both those empires represent the western civilization. Persian Empire represented the eastern civlisation back then.

I know they're successors, but regardless each had their effects in dividing the continent. Despite the magnitude at which the empires existed the Romans had the greatest effect on shaping the civilization of west Europe while the Greek empire had it's effect on the east. Though despite this not all of the West/East adhered to their ideals to begin with. Greek philosophy, for instance, was not widespread throughout Asia just because Greece conqured a ton of it. It was much more centralized than that just as the Roman empire was in western Europe.

The origins of western civilisation are following (as any student of philosophy or sociology would tell you):

1) Greek philosophy

2) Roman law

3) Christianity.

Agreed, but only one of them works in Poland's case, and I'd definitely say it's the weakest link of the three.

[QUOTE="SW__Troll"]

[QUOTE="Chemical_Viking"]

Because it was behind the iron curtain. Eastern europe has been considered the east for years.

And not one of the idiots who is claiming its purely geographical can answer why we make the geopgraphical distinction on RPGs but absolutely no other game?

BlbecekBobecek

Well it's not only just the Cold War, but even prior to the Cold War Europe used to be heavily split by religion, and empire dating back to the times of the great Roman, and Greek empires.

Western Civilization has always, ALWAYS been used to describe Western Europe, and (through expansion) it also became a descriptor for the USA, and Canada, some parts of Central America/South America, and Australia even.

I DO AGREE with the red parts. The thing is Poland was always, ALWAYS part of the western civilisation (even by religion, as you mention).

I DONT agree with the green part. Great Roman empire was actually a successor of the Greek Empire (it basically started after the era of Alexander The Great) and both those empires represent the western civilization. Persian Empire represented the eastern civlisation back then.

The origins of western civilisation are following (as any student of philosophy or sociology would tell you):

1) Greek philosophy

2) Roman law

3) Christianity.

I like where this discussion going are we actually discussing the history of western civilization in system wars :)

[QUOTE="hakanakumono"]

First of all, typing "yawn" isn't going to impress me. Attempting to appear disinterested is a painfully transparent attempt to conceal your inability to back up an argument based on ethnocentrism and it isn't going to impress anyone in SW.

Suggesting that "turn based combat is still turn based" is about as useful as saying an "FPS is still an FPS." So what, there can be no meaningful changes within a genre as long as it remains in its genre? I'm not suggesting that every turn based game plays like the game in my picture. You are the one who is suggesting that there is no "spectrum," with your previous "_ is still _" comment. However, most JRPGs play far more similar to the game in my picture than the game from the clip I showed you. I am not aware of any games that utilize some of the gameplay elements that it employs. So either turn based games are all the same and have no meaningful changes, or are a "spectrum" that do include meaningful changes. Which one is it?

And yet again, you did not answer the quesiton. Two more red herrings, one of which is an attempt to appear as an authority. "Scratch damage" is the term the game uses. The game employs "scratch damage" (which ironically does the most (potential) damage), and then "direct damage" which provides permanent damage and makes permanent any damage that has been made in scratch damage. They also have other functions like direct damage breaking enemy parts to acquire more bezels so that you don't run out of turns. I assume you're following all of this, because evidently it all originated in WRPGs.

smerlus

I've fumbled all over myself? You have thus far failed to make a single argument in defense of your original point. However, you've managed to throw together a slew of red herrings and straw men. And you proceeded to proceded to "correct" me and someone else, calling them a "child," when you turned out to be completely wrong.

Moreover, you've concluded this post with the idea that the "scratch damage" in RoF is borrowed from WRPGs simply because it uses the same name. Of course, the scratch damage that you described is completely different from the scratch damage used in RoF and how it is used in RoF. As for RoF being a "Barely turned based JRPG with scratch damage," not only does it suggest that you still fail to understand how the mechanic works (the "scratch damage" is meaningless without the "direct damage"), there many other unique elements to the game. You of course, wouldn't know that, because you have no idea how RoF plays and are the type of person who likes to argue over things they have absolutely no understanding of, pumping vast quantities of your seeping, over-inflated ego into each post.

My original argument was never that I was upset that you found JRPGs over "stylized" (straw man). I couldn't care less that you don't like your "fantasy" games to be "fantastical." My original point was that JRPGs, in fact, do have elements that did not originate in WRPGs.Congratulations, so far your best argument is that a JRPG mechanic and a WRPG mechanic have the same name.

I'm done. Your posts are here for everyone to see.

Poland is part of European Union and culturally and historicallybelongs to the western civilization since about 500 years before America was discovered. What makes you think it does not?

BlbecekBobecek

1) Greek philosophy

2) Roman law

3) Christianity.

Agreed, but only one of them works in Poland's case, and I'd definitely say it's the weakest link of the three.

SW__Troll

[QUOTE="SW__Troll"]

1) Greek philosophy

2) Roman law

3) Christianity.

Agreed, but only one of them works in Poland's case, and I'd definitely say it's the weakest link of the three.

AdrianWerner

Exactly.

I like where this discussion going are we actually discussing the history of western civilization in system wars :)

musalala

Yeah, this thread is getting pretty epic :D

[QUOTE="SW__Troll"]

1) Greek philosophy

2) Roman law

3) Christianity.

Agreed, but only one of them works in Poland's case, and I'd definitely say it's the weakest link of the three.

AdrianWerner

What do you mean the UK and USA aren't based on Roman law?

The UK, and the Catholic church certainly had their differences, but a very long time after either one came into being.

Roman law is seen all over the US legal system. Much of the law takes on Latin titles because, interestingly enough, those were laws far before the US ever came to use them.

I can't really speak on behalf of the UK though as I don't live there.

The origins of western civilisation are following (as any student of philosophy or sociology would tell you):

1) Greek philosophy

2) Roman law

3) Christianity.

Agreed, but only one of them works in Poland's case, and I'd definitely say it's the weakest link of the three.

SW__Troll

Polish political thinking was always (or at least since late-medieval, because dark ages were a rather bad period for that) heavily influenced by ancient philosophy and laws... In some periods of history this influence was even greater in Poland than in some of the western european nations.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Liberty

[QUOTE="BlbecekBobecek"]

Poland is part of European Union and culturally and historicallybelongs to the western civilization since about 500 years before America was discovered. What makes you think it does not?

AdrianWerner

This I agree with and I like how you put the thread back on rails :) I just think Poland is western even geographically because its about the same geographical width as Austria, Czech republic (those countries are probably more know by their capitols Wien and Prague, both used to be parts of Habsburg Monarchy and both their capitols used to be the seat of the Emperor of the Holy Roman Empire at some point in time and that was something like the capitol of western civilization back then, so they are definitely both parts of the west). When you say eastern I imagine Russia, Mongolia, Kazachstan, Uzbekistan, all Asia, Turkey, etc., maybe even Ukraine, Belarus... but thats it. Just my humble opinion though.

[QUOTE="AdrianWerner"]

[QUOTE="SW__Troll"]

1) Greek philosophy

2) Roman law

3) Christianity.

Agreed, but only one of them works in Poland's case, and I'd definitely say it's the weakest link of the three.

SW__Troll

What do you mean the UK and USA aren't based on Roman law?

The UK, and the Catholic church certainly had their differences, but a very long time after either one came into being.

Roman law is seen all over the US legal system. Much of the law takes on Latin titles because, interestingly enough, those were laws far before the US ever came to use them.

I can't really speak on behalf of the UK though as I don't live there.

I think the british use roman/dutch law

[QUOTE="AdrianWerner"]

[QUOTE="SW__Troll"]

1) Greek philosophy

2) Roman law

3) Christianity.

Agreed, but only one of them works in Poland's case, and I'd definitely say it's the weakest link of the three.

SW__Troll

What do you mean the UK and USA aren't based on Roman law?

The UK, and the Catholic church certainly had their differences, but a very long time after either one came into being.

Roman law is seen all over the US legal system. Much of the law takes on Latin titles because, interestingly enough, those were laws far before the US ever came to use them.

I can't really speak on behalf of the UK though as I don't live there.

He meant that while continental Europe uses so called Romano-Germanic (or Continental) Legal system, UK and USA use common law based Anglo-Saxon legal system.

[QUOTE="SW__Troll"]

[QUOTE="AdrianWerner"]Nah, all three work in Poland. More than they do in UK and USA, because Poland actually uses all three, while UK and USA aren't based on Roman law.

BlbecekBobecek

What do you mean the UK and USA aren't based on Roman law?

The UK, and the Catholic church certainly had their differences, but a very long time after either one came into being.

Roman law is seen all over the US legal system. Much of the law takes on Latin titles because, interestingly enough, those were laws far before the US ever came to use them.

I can't really speak on behalf of the UK though as I don't live there.

He meant that while continental Europe uses so called Romano-Germanic (or Continental) Legal system, UK and USA use common law based Anglo-Saxon legal system.

tbh I don't actually know what that means because, despite it being Anglo-Saxan law, or Romano-Germanic law, they still have similar roots.

Though I admit to never knowing too much about Polish history. I kinda just took all of Eastern Europe and threw them under the same blanket (I don't think all of Eastern Europe would be classifed as Western civilization, but I guess Poland can slide on this one :P)

Regardless of ANY of these facts though these questions still remain unanswered:

• Why is their only a differentiation between RPGs, and no other genre? (Why don't we have JPlatformers, JRacing, or w/e)
• Why does From Software themselves consider Demon/Dark Souls to not be a JRPG if it's purely regional, as some would like to put it?
• Why does it seem that every RPG not from Japan seem to get thrown under the WRPG label if it's purely regional?
• Why am I so damn handsome?

I've fumbled all over myself? You have thus far failed to make a single argument in defense of your original point. However, you've managed to throw together a slew of red herrings and straw men. And you proceeded to proceded to "correct" me and someone else, calling them a "child," when you turned out to be completely wrong.

Moreover, you've concluded this post with the idea that the "scratch damage" in RoF is borrowed from WRPGs simply because it uses the same name. Of course, the scratch damage that you described is completely different from the scratch damage used in RoF and how it is used in RoF. As for RoF being a "Barely turned based JRPG with scratch damage," not only does it suggest that you still fail to understand how the mechanic works (the "scratch damage" is meaningless without the "direct damage"), there many other unique elements to the game. You of course, wouldn't know that, because you have no idea how RoF plays and are the type of person who likes to argue over things they have absolutely no understanding of, pumping vast quantities of your seeping, over-inflated ego into each post.

My original argument was never that I was upset that you found JRPGs over "stylized" (straw man). I couldn't care less that you don't like your "fantasy" games to be "fantastical." My original point was that JRPGs, in fact, do have elements that did not originate in WRPGs.Congratulations, so far your best argument is that a JRPG mechanic and a WRPG mechanic have the same name.

I'm done. Your posts are here for everyone to see.

Why is their only a differentiation between RPGs, and no other genre? (Why don't we have JPlatformers, JRacing, or w/e)Why does From Software themselves consider Demon/Dark Souls to not be a JRPG if it's purely regional, as some would like to put it?Why does it seem that every RPG not from Japan seem to get thrown under the WRPG label if it's purely regional?Why am I so damn handsome?SW__Troll

1) Because all other genres are very similar.are there really huge enough differences in God of War and Devil May Cry to say that they are so different they need to be further catagorized?

2) because developers are full of themselves. Why isn't Shenmue labeled as a F.R.E.E. genre game? Why is Fable 3 still listed as an RPG? Why arent Metroid Prime games listed as First Person Adventures?

3) Maybe because they are all west of the Far East

4) Genetics and a good upbringing.

What do you mean the UK and USA aren't based on Roman law?

The UK, and the Catholic church certainly had their differences, but a very long time after either one came into being.

Roman law is seen all over the US legal system. Much of the law takes on Latin titles because, interestingly enough, those were laws far before the US ever came to use them.

I can't really speak on behalf of the UK though as I don't live there.

SW__Troll

Well, of course UK and USA systems are influenced by Roman law, but not directly based, that's why they're refered to as "Common law" systems, as opossed to "Roman Law" systems. The later hand is pretty much the whole continental Europe on the other which still uses majority of Roman law constucts.

[QUOTE="SW__Troll"]Why is their only a differentiation between RPGs, and no other genre? (Why don't we have JPlatformers, JRacing, or w/e)Why does From Software themselves consider Demon/Dark Souls to not be a JRPG if it's purely regional, as some would like to put it?Why does it seem that every RPG not from Japan seem to get thrown under the WRPG label if it's purely regional?Why am I so damn handsome?smerlus

1) Because all other genres are very similar.are there really huge enough differences in God of War and Devil May Cry to say that they are so different they need to be further catagorized?

That's pretty much my point.

All other genres ARE similar be they from Japan or America or Europe. RPGs being incredibly different in a ton of cases between these regions. That's why many others, and myself, have argued for the terms being used based on sty|e/genre differences rather than geographic differences.

2) because developers are full of themselves. Why isn't Shenmue labeled as a F.R.E.E. genre game? Why is Fable 3 still listed as an RPG? Why arent Metroid Prime games listed as First Person Adventures?

I wouldn't go that far. From Software specifically stated that their game was heavily rooted elsewhere; IE NOT Japanese RPGs. They weren't saying they were a higher ****of Japanese gaming, or something like that.

3) Maybe because they are all west of the Far East

As far as I'm concerned America is to Japan's east :cool:

But seriously it's not right to consider the entire world "the west", but that's currently the system in place for RPGs that aren't made in Japan.

4) Genetics and a good upbringing.

Damn straight

[QUOTE="RavenLoud"] I don't think you understand what scratch damage is. You are the fool here. You clearly did not even spend the time to achieve basic understanding of the combat system he provided. That smug attitude also doesn't help your argument as much as you seem to believe. Keep those deluded dribble coming, I sense that it will be fun.

smerlus

It's ridiculous to classify a genre based upon where the game originated from. If a Japanese studio makes a western-style RPG, they are making a WRPG. Similarly, a western studio could make a JRPG. The W and J refers to the style of the RPG, not the region of the world in which the game was made.PurpleMan5000

This used to be common knowledge.

1) Because all other genres are very similar.are there really huge enough differences in God of War and Devil May Cry to say that they are so different they need to be further catagorized?

That's pretty much my point.

All other genres ARE similar be they from Japan or America or Europe. RPGs being incredibly different in a ton of cases between these regions. That's why many others, and myself, have argued for the terms being used based on sty|e/genre differences rather than geographic differences.

2) because developers are full of themselves. Why isn't Shenmue labeled as a F.R.E.E. genre game? Why is Fable 3 still listed as an RPG? Why arent Metroid Prime games listed as First Person Adventures?

I wouldn't go that far. From Software specifically stated that their game was heavily rooted elsewhere; IE NOT Japanese RPGs. They weren't saying they were a higher ****of Japanese gaming, or something like that.

3) Maybe because they are all west of the Far East

As far as I'm concerned America is to Japan's east :cool:

But seriously it's not right to consider the entire world "the west", but that's currently the system in place for RPGs that aren't made in Japan.

4) Genetics and a good upbringing.

Damn straight

actually you must have trouble reading. There's already a term called scratch damage and it describes something else. let more more intelligentadults speak here child.

RavenLoud

So wait. you had trouble reading what i wrote and now you want to turn around and say I had trouble? The nerve of kids these days.

The person i've been quoting said there are a things that jrpgs haven't borrowed from the west and then names a phrase that the west had already defined years back. That's what I found to be ironic.

The type of damage dealing he described wasn't even invented by jrpg developers anyways as it is found in various fighting games so that point is moot.

So the whole scratch damage argument is done. JRPG devs stole the phrase and then borrowed from another genre...way to pioneer.

It's also text book posting on System Wars when you no longer have a point to start throwing out words like Red Herring and Straw Man.smerlus

Or it means you have an understanding of logical fallacies and that the opposing person is failing to construct an argument. Oh, the irony.

You did finally mention fighting games, I'll give you that. Though it doesn't support your original argument and I'm not certain that it actually works in the same way (in whatever fighting games you're not referring to directly), but it doesn't matter anyways. It's too late.

[QUOTE="smerlus"]It's also text book posting on System Wars when you no longer have a point to start throwing out words like Red Herring and Straw Man.hakanakumono

Or it means you have an understanding of logical fallacies and that the opposing person is failing to construct an argument. Oh, the irony.

You did finally mention fighting games, I'll give you that. Though it doesn't support your original argument and I'm not certain that it actually works in the same way (in whatever fighting games you're not referring to directly), but it doesn't matter anyways. It's too late.

So wait. you had trouble reading what i wrote and now you want to turn around and say I had trouble? The nerve of kids these days.

The person i've been quoting said there are a things that jrpgs haven't borrowed from the west and then names a phrase that the west had already defined years back. That's what I found to be ironic.

The type of damage dealing he described wasn't even invented by jrpg developers anyways as it is found in various fighting games so that point is moot.

So the whole scratch damage argument is done. JRPG devs stole the phrase and then borrowed from another genre...way to pioneer.

smerlus

:lol: Sure, the debate is done even though you never really participated because you still don't know what scratch damage is in RoF or what part of scratch damage really mattered in this argument. Here's a thought: the origin of the term was never the point he was trying to make. You brought it up for no reason.

Or how about those words you put in my mouth to make youself look right? So if calling you out on BS qualifies me for those types than i'm a Red Strawman Herringsmerlus

Now this is a honest question, I have not played a fighting game with the concept of healing scratch damage vs. direct damage, perhaps you would enlighten me.

Before we go into the inevitable spiral of where innovation came from: everything was inspired from something else, we would never get to the end of where originality comes from. Innovate =! necessarily make revolutionary changes, it just have to improve and add new things. Not all innovations are good either, in fact innovation for the sake of innovation can often hurt a game.

Whatever Dark Souls is, it's a got damn good RPG.