For those in denial, Dark Souls is JRPG, not a WRPG

13+ pages over a trivial technicality? Really? :roll:

You guys need lives.

I always thought it referred to the type of gameplay. Even if the game was made in Japan, if it has all the elements of a WRPG it is a WRPG. It's called a WRPG because that type of gameplay is popular in the west regardless of where the game is made.

should just avoid confusion and call it an ARPG anyways.

13+ pages over a trivial technicality? Really? :roll:

You guys need lives.

6yadayada9

[QUOTE="musalala"]

[QUOTE="SW__Troll"]

What does that even mean in response to his post?

hakanakumono

was confused as well, I actually think Texas (who is a well known JRPG hater of note particularly of Final Fanatsy ) was actually complimenting Dark souls

It's not really a compliment. He's basically saying that Dark Souls is only good because it's trying not to be a JRPG, but naturally, being a Japanese made RPG, it's still not very good.

It's a WRPG and end of story. Why is there a distinction in the first pace? I mean is the distinction there because of what country the game was made in? IWhat about RPG's that are made in Jamaica? are they JRPG's as well? or should we just call them JARPGS? what about games made in Wales we shoud call them WRPG but how are we gonna differ it from an american WRPG? The souls games are both WRPG's the reason people deny this is because they want japan to get some credit from the JRPG genre that they've been lacking this gen.Chrome-

LOL this is so true if you think about, So the only way for japanese games to be popular again in the west is for them to emulate western games. I wonder if dark souls would have been popular if it had been made over the top and anime like Final Fantasy.

[QUOTE="SW__Troll"]

[QUOTE="hakanakumono"]

Oh of course, lol, because it's Japanese.

musalala

What does that even mean in response to his post?

was confused as well, I actually think Texas (who is a well known JRPG hater of note particularly of Final Fanatsy ) was actually complimenting Dark souls

So judging by last few pages, this thread is one of the few where we actually reached general consensus regarding the topic. To sum it up:

1. WRPG vs JRPG is matter of genres, not purely locations of developement.
2. Dark Souls is a WRPG.

Right?

So judging by last few pages, this thread is one of the few where we actually reached general consensus regarding the topic. To sum it up:

1. WRPG vs JRPG is matter of genres, not purely locations of developement.
2. Dark Souls is a WRPG.

Right?

BlbecekBobecek

Yes

No its a Japanese game with some WRPG elements

What exactly makes Dark Souls a WRPG? The fact that it isn't turn based? :roll:

What exactly makes Dark Souls a WRPG? The fact that it isn't turn based? :roll:

parkurtommo

So is jrpg b.c is made in Japan!?

What exactly makes Dark Souls a WRPG? The fact that it isn't turn based? :roll:

parkurtommo

1) Aesthetics - Environments are typical middle-age Europe (gothic and roman architecture), weapons and armors are generally middle-age european too. Dragons are typical european dragons too (this made a few people laugh because of their lack of education, so I will post a link here:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_dragon). The same can be said about most weapons and armor and basically about anything in the game.

2) Artistic style - Well, this one is obvious. Dark Souls is much closer to typical WRPGs like Dragon Age Origins as well as to such WRPG classics like Dungeon Master, Wizardry series, Ultima series, etc. etc. and its basically as far from JRPG anime-like artistic style as you can get.

3) Storytelling (or the lack off) - One of the signs of JRPGs is that they are dialogue-heavy. The story is very thought out and someone always has to state even the obious just in case players would miss it. A contrario storytelling in Demons/Dark Souls is minimalistic and mostly resembles Diablo (and - of course - Dungeon Master).

4) Characters- You dont play a kid or an adolescent and the game doesnt begin in your room with mum calling you for a breakfast in Dark Souls. The Characters dont try to solve their past, there is little emotional stuff. When a character dies, there is nothing at all pathetic about it. Some fans of JRPG (and I consider myself a fan of JRPGs) could say that characters in DS are shallow, but I dont think so, I think their story is just told in a different way.

5) Gameplay- JRPGs combat system typically uses menu system to start attacks and cast spells. WRPGs are typically real time (again to name a few - Dungeon Master, Diablo, TES series, Gothic/Risen series, Withcer series etc. etc.). There are exceptions breaking the rule though.

6) Mythology- You are undead, enemies are skeletons, the various bosses are obviously inspired by pagan mythology (=mythology of european nations before they accepted christianity), I already mentioned dragons, the origin of the world is also a mixture of various pagan mythologies.

And Im sure I could go on for a few more points, but I think this more than enough. Its obvious that the intentionof developers was to have nothing in common with JRPGs and they were very carefull about that.

Just for the record - I love JRPGs and I play them a lot, but I just know WRPG when I see one.

EDIT: By "roman architecture" I meant "romanesque architecture" - English is not my native language so I confused the two, sorry for that.

[QUOTE="BlbecekBobecek"]

[QUOTE="parkurtommo"]

What exactly makes Dark Souls a WRPG? The fact that it isn't turn based? :roll:

sts106mat

1) Aesthetics - Environments are typical middle-age Europe (gothic and roman architecture), weapons and armors are generally middle-age european too. Dragons are typical european dragons too (this made a few people laugh because of their lack of education, so I will post a link here:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_dragon). The same can be said about most weapons and armor and basically about anything in the game.

2) Artistic style - Well, this one is obvious. Dark Souls is much closer to typical WRPGs like Dragon Age Origins as well as to such WRPG classics like Dungeon Master, Wizardry series, Ultima series, etc. etc. and its basically as far from JRPG anime-like artistic style as you can get.

3) Storytelling (or the lack off) - One of the signs of JRPGs is that they are dialogue-heavy. The story is very thought out and someone always has to state even the obious just in case players would miss it. A contrario storytelling in Demons/Dark Souls is minimalistic and mostly resembles Diablo (and - of course - Dungeon Master).

4) Characters- You dont play a kid or an adolescent and the game doesnt begin in your room with mum calling you for a breakfast in Dark Souls. The Characters dont try to solve their past, there is little emotional stuff. When a character dies, there is nothing at all pathetic about it. Some fans of JRPG (and I consider myself a fan of JRPGs) could say that characters in DS are shallow, but I dont think so, I think their story is just told in a different way.

5) Gameplay- JRPGs combat system typically uses menu system to start attacks and cast spells. WRPGs are typically real time (again to name a few - Dungeon Master, Diablo, TES series, Gothic/Risen series, Withcer series etc. etc.). There are exceptions breaking the rule though.

6) Mythology- You are undead, enemies are skeletons, the various bosses are obviously inspired by pagan mythology (=mythology of european nations before they accepted christianity), I already mentioned dragons, the origin of the world is also a mixture of various pagan mythologies.

And Im sure I could go on for a few more points, but I think this more than enough. Its obvious that the intentionof developers was to have nothing in common with JRPGs and they were very carefull about that.

Just for the record - I love JRPGs and I play them a lot, but I just know WRPG when I see one.

EDIT: By "roman architecture" I meant "romanesque architecture" - English is not my native language so I confused the two, sorry for that.

People laughed at your post about regarding dragons because it seemed to imply that by including dragons that is somehow made the game was a western RPG.

LOL at your condesending attitude.

Think of the far east and its not long before china enters your head, ask 100 people to name a symbol associated with china, a great majority would give you dragon as their first answer. thats what was funny and you know it, not because people need educating.

You need educating as hell, because you missed my point completely. My point is that the dragons are typically European. There is a difference between chinese dragons and european dragons (check the link). :roll:

[QUOTE="BlbecekBobecek"]

[QUOTE="sts106mat"]

People laughed at your post about regarding dragons because it seemed to imply that by including dragons that is somehow made the game was a western RPG.

LOL at your condesending attitude.

Think of the far east and its not long before china enters your head, ask 100 people to name a symbol associated with china, a great majority would give you dragon as their first answer. thats what was funny and you know it, not because people need educating.

sts106mat

You need educating as hell, because you missed my point completely. My point is that the dragons are typically European. There is a difference between chinese dragons and european dragons (check the link). :roll:

No S*** sherlock, i understand that what you did was clarify a point. you seemed to have missed my point though, that people laughed because of how the original was worded that is all. you cannot educate me about dragons, you can try though.

dragons are not typical european, the dragons in demon souls, might be european style dragons, that is all.

Yea now I see, sorry for that. As I said english is not my native so I missed the joke about the wording till now.

Lets not let the point of my post drown in this rubbish though ;)

[QUOTE="parkurtommo"]

What exactly makes Dark Souls a WRPG? The fact that it isn't turn based? :roll:

BlbecekBobecek

1) Aesthetics - Environments are typical middle-age Europe (gothic and roman architecture), weapons and armors are generally middle-age european too. Dragons are typical european dragons too (this made a few people laugh because of their lack of education, so I will post a link here:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_dragon). The same can be said about most weapons and armor and basically about anything in the game.

2) Artistic style - Well, this one is obvious. Dark Souls is much closer to typical WRPGs like Dragon Age Origins as well as to such WRPG classics like Dungeon Master, Wizardry series, Ultima series, etc. etc. and its basically as far from JRPG anime-like artistic style as you can get.

3) Storytelling (or the lack off) - One of the signs of JRPGs is that they are dialogue-heavy. The story is very thought out and someone always has to state even the obious just in case players would miss it. A contrario storytelling in Demons/Dark Souls is minimalistic and mostly resembles Diablo (and - of course - Dungeon Master).

4) Characters- You dont play a kid or an adolescent and the game doesnt begin in your room with mum calling you for a breakfast in Dark Souls. The Characters dont try to solve their past, there is little emotional stuff. When a character dies, there is nothing at all pathetic about it. Some fans of JRPG (and I consider myself a fan of JRPGs) could say that characters in DS are shallow, but I dont think so, I think their story is just told in a different way.

5) Gameplay- JRPGs combat system typically uses menu system to start attacks and cast spells. WRPGs are typically real time (again to name a few - Dungeon Master, Diablo, TES series, Gothic/Risen series, Withcer series etc. etc.). There are exceptions breaking the rule though.

6) Mythology- You are undead, enemies are skeletons, the various bosses are obviously inspired by pagan mythology (=mythology of european nations before they accepted christianity), I already mentioned dragons, the origin of the world is also a mixture of various pagan mythologies.

And Im sure I could go on for a few more points, but I think this more than enough. Its obvious that the intentionof developers was to have nothing in common with JRPGs and they were very carefull about that.

Just for the record - I love JRPGs and I play them a lot, but I just know WRPG when I see one.

EDIT: By "roman architecture" I meant "romanesque architecture" - English is not my native language so I confused the two, sorry for that.

There are many RPGs from japan that don't fit your stereotyping. I'll say it again, nothing about the words "japanese" and "western" give any distinction to gameplay or thematical elements. Those aspects are shoe horned in by people trying to find ways to seperate certain styles of gameplay. JRPG and WRPG shouldn't exist in the first place. No other genre has these distinctions despite the fact that there are several different elements and ways to make an adventure game or a platformer. Its because the distinctions are pretty damn arbitrary and people just wanna b**** about something. So basically, if you wanna classify the games, use common sense and ask yourself, if you brought this question to someone who didn't play games, what description would they chose? Would it be the one people here have which throws hundreds of points in several different topics to build some sort of argument (to which you all have varying points and contradicting theories anyway) or the common sense point in which it refers to exactly what the name implies; made in the western world vs made in Japan? (sure if you want to get specific the west is not Europe but its more along the lines really of western world culture in which NA is based strongly off of Europe)

It's true actually, JRPG isn't exactly a genre.

There are many RPGs from japan that don't fit your stereotyping.ActicEdge

[QUOTE="BlbecekBobecek"]

[QUOTE="parkurtommo"]

What exactly makes Dark Souls a WRPG? The fact that it isn't turn based? :roll:

ActicEdge

1) Aesthetics - Environments are typical middle-age Europe (gothic and roman architecture), weapons and armors are generally middle-age european too. Dragons are typical european dragons too (this made a few people laugh because of their lack of education, so I will post a link here:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_dragon). The same can be said about most weapons and armor and basically about anything in the game.

2) Artistic style - Well, this one is obvious. Dark Souls is much closer to typical WRPGs like Dragon Age Origins as well as to such WRPG classics like Dungeon Master, Wizardry series, Ultima series, etc. etc. and its basically as far from JRPG anime-like artistic style as you can get.

3) Storytelling (or the lack off) - One of the signs of JRPGs is that they are dialogue-heavy. The story is very thought out and someone always has to state even the obious just in case players would miss it. A contrario storytelling in Demons/Dark Souls is minimalistic and mostly resembles Diablo (and - of course - Dungeon Master).

4) Characters- You dont play a kid or an adolescent and the game doesnt begin in your room with mum calling you for a breakfast in Dark Souls. The Characters dont try to solve their past, there is little emotional stuff. When a character dies, there is nothing at all pathetic about it. Some fans of JRPG (and I consider myself a fan of JRPGs) could say that characters in DS are shallow, but I dont think so, I think their story is just told in a different way.

5) Gameplay- JRPGs combat system typically uses menu system to start attacks and cast spells. WRPGs are typically real time (again to name a few - Dungeon Master, Diablo, TES series, Gothic/Risen series, Withcer series etc. etc.). There are exceptions breaking the rule though.

6) Mythology- You are undead, enemies are skeletons, the various bosses are obviously inspired by pagan mythology (=mythology of european nations before they accepted christianity), I already mentioned dragons, the origin of the world is also a mixture of various pagan mythologies.

And Im sure I could go on for a few more points, but I think this more than enough. Its obvious that the intentionof developers was to have nothing in common with JRPGs and they were very carefull about that.

Just for the record - I love JRPGs and I play them a lot, but I just know WRPG when I see one.

EDIT: By "roman architecture" I meant "romanesque architecture" - English is not my native language so I confused the two, sorry for that.

There are many RPGs from japan that don't fit your stereotyping.I'll say it again, nothing about the words "japanese" and "western" give any distinction to gameplay or thematical elements.Those aspects are shoe horned in by people trying to find ways to seperate certain styles of gameplay. JRPG and WRPG shouldn't exist in the first place. No other genre has these distinctions despite the fact that there are several different elements and ways to make an adventure game or a platformer. Its because the distinctions are pretty damn arbitrary and people just wanna b**** about something. So basically, if you wanna classify the games, use common sense and ask yourself, if you brought this question to someone who didn't play games, what description would they chose? Would it be the one people here have which throws hundreds of points in several different topics to build some sort of argument (to which you all have varying points and contradicting theories anyway) or the common sense point in which it refers to exactly what the name implies; made in the western world vs made in Japan? (sure if you want to get specific the west is not Europe but its more along the lines really of western world culture in which NA is based strongly off of Europe)

Of course, there will always be exceptions from the rule. Its only a matter of terminology - its a fact that there are two different "types" of RPGs and for some reasons the people got used to use the terms JRPG and WRPG to distinguish them.

You cant bring the difference between "death metal" and "black metal" to someone who doesnt listen to metal and expect him to chose description

edit: sorry for the colors, its not intention, I just cant get them right for some reason :)

[QUOTE="Tikeio"]

[QUOTE="MacBoomStick"]

What is a chinese RPG? Its not western... Its not Japanese...

RavenLoud

Chinese people make games? I'm pretty sure that Mexico makes the discs, so that can't be true.....

I think after the 80's the term jRPG became more about the type of gameplay than to tell where the game comes from.

For example, I see Anachronox as a jRPG not made in Japan, while Dark Souls as an wRPG (an action-RPG to be more accurate) made in Japan.

I think after the 80's the term jRPG became more about the type of gameplay than to tell where the game comes from.

For example, I see Anachronox as a jRPG not made in Japan, while Dark Souls as an wRPG (an action-RPG to be more accurate) made in Japan.

RyuRanVII

[QUOTE="parkurtommo"]

What exactly makes Dark Souls a WRPG? The fact that it isn't turn based? :roll:

BlbecekBobecek

1) Aesthetics - Environments are typical middle-age Europe (gothic and roman architecture), weapons and armors are generally middle-age european too. Dragons are typical european dragons too (this made a few people laugh because of their lack of education, so I will post a link here:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_dragon). The same can be said about most weapons and armor and basically about anything in the game.

2) Artistic style - Well, this one is obvious. Dark Souls is much closer to typical WRPGs like Dragon Age Origins as well as to such WRPG classics like Dungeon Master, Wizardry series, Ultima series, etc. etc. and its basically as far from JRPG anime-like artistic style as you can get.

3) Storytelling (or the lack off) - One of the signs of JRPGs is that they are dialogue-heavy. The story is very thought out and someone always has to state even the obious just in case players would miss it. A contrario storytelling in Demons/Dark Souls is minimalistic and mostly resembles Diablo (and - of course - Dungeon Master).

4) Characters- You dont play a kid or an adolescent and the game doesnt begin in your room with mum calling you for a breakfast in Dark Souls. The Characters dont try to solve their past, there is little emotional stuff. When a character dies, there is nothing at all pathetic about it. Some fans of JRPG (and I consider myself a fan of JRPGs) could say that characters in DS are shallow, but I dont think so, I think their story is just told in a different way.

5) Gameplay- JRPGs combat system typically uses menu system to start attacks and cast spells. WRPGs are typically real time (again to name a few - Dungeon Master, Diablo, TES series, Gothic/Risen series, Withcer series etc. etc.). There are exceptions breaking the rule though.

6) Mythology- You are undead, enemies are skeletons, the various bosses are obviously inspired by pagan mythology (=mythology of european nations before they accepted christianity), I already mentioned dragons, the origin of the world is also a mixture of various pagan mythologies.

And Im sure I could go on for a few more points, but I think this more than enough. Its obvious that the intentionof developers was to have nothing in common with JRPGs and they were very carefull about that.

Just for the record - I love JRPGs and I play them a lot, but I just know WRPG when I see one.

EDIT: By "roman architecture" I meant "romanesque architecture" - English is not my native language so I confused the two, sorry for that.

If we're using regions, it defaults to the region in which the game is made. It isn't "Japanese-styled Role Playing game"..AncientDozer

And it makes sense. Afterall, we have stuff like Mount & Blade, King'a Bounty or Witcher 2 being called 'wRPGs", while geographically they weren't created in the West

[QUOTE="RyuRanVII"]

I think after the 80's the term jRPG became more about the type of gameplay than to tell where the game comes from.

For example, I see Anachronox as a jRPG not made in Japan, while Dark Souls as an wRPG (an action-RPG to be more accurate) made in Japan.

Aquaunitpatrol

Imagine in a parallel universe where Skyrim was made by a Japanese thread. I can see sw arguing that being jrpg because the devs are made in Japan rather than western region *facepalms*.

Would you buy Half Life 2 to a die hard FPS fan? Now would you buy Dark Souls to a die hard JRPG fan? Think about it.Chrome-

let's forget about all this. I'm off to play that WFPS everyone is talking about, followed by that Jplatformer and a bit of the PRPG later on.

No? Hmm. Wonder why that could be.

Imagine in a parallel universe where Skyrim was made by a Japanese thread. I can see sw arguing that being jrpg because the devs are made in Japan rather than western region *facepalms*.

Bikouchu35

Imagine in a parallel universe where Skyrim was made by a Japanese thread. I can see sw arguing that being jrpg because the devs are made in Japan rather than western region *facepalms*.

Would you buy Half Life 2 to a die hard FPS fan? Now would you buy Dark Souls to a die hard JRPG fan? Think about it.Chrome-

I see the point you're trying to make, but keep in mind that I firstly hate the J and W in front of the RPG, as I stated in the OP. But I always took them to be an indicator of what region the games were made, not as a subgenre of RPGs. I follow the action, turn-based, tactical, strategy, etc of RPGs subgenres.

I love The Witcher, but I also Lost Odyssey. I love The Elder Scrolls but I also love Tales of Vesperia. For me there are only RPGs. But if I'm stuck in a world where J and W are placed in front of RPG, then I use them only as an indicator of what region a game is from.

[QUOTE="Chrome-"][QUOTE="Bikouchu35"]

Imagine in a parallel universe where Skyrim was made by a Japanese thread. I can see sw arguing that being jrpg because the devs are made in Japan rather than western region *facepalms*.

smerlus

Why wouldn't it?

Well duh it's made by Namco Bandai.

[QUOTE="smerlus"]What he's trying to say is that if Atlus made Skyrim would it be a JRPG?NeonNinja

Why wouldn't it?

^This.

This topic reminds me of discussions like "is Avatar: TLA a cartoon or Anime?" when the answer is pretty obvious.

Some people think something has to be a "certain" way to be grouped with things that are different, even though the term "JRPG" means Japanese RPG.

An RPG can't be a JRPG if it is not from Japan. And an RPG can't be a Western RPG unless it is from the West.

I don't know where people get this idea that these terms are not strictly regional, but are their own genres.

A RPG doesn't have to have spiky haired kids and a turn-based battle system to be a JRPG, it just has to be from Japan.

But I say, let people call it what they wan't. If you like RPGs in general, then it shouldn't matter if it's a JRPG or a WRPG.

[QUOTE="smerlus"][QUOTE="Chrome-"] What? what you just said makes literally no sense.NeonNinja

Why wouldn't it?

Why is there a distinction between the two?Silverbond

Wasn"t this sorted already? I thought it was agreed that JRPG and WRPG had more to do with style than geographical location or am I missing something?

[QUOTE="Silverbond"]Why is there a distinction between the two?smerlus

And why are people convinently ignoring The interview Makari posted in which the devs basically say the wanted to make a a game that had WRPG elementsbased on fantasy novels of wizadry, whichh are the primary influence on WRPG.

http://www.next-gen.biz/features/interview-demons-souls

Likewise, the dark, heavy fantasy setting runs contrary to the JRPG's ongoing primary-coloured charm aesthetic, while the ponderous, precise nature of the combat contains none of the insta-thrill of its exuberant, button-mashing contemporaries

I'm no fan of the genre westerners refer to as the JRPG," says Takeshi Kajii ( even he makes a distiction)

This ends the ENTIRE thread, unless the dark souls fanboys want to act as though the designers themselves are delusional?

And why are people convinently ignoring The interview Makari posted in which the devs basically say the wanted to make a a game that had WRPG elementsbased on fantasy novels of wizadry, whichh are the primary influence on WRPG.

http://www.next-gen.biz/features/interview-demons-souls

Likewise, the dark, heavy fantasy setting runs contrary to the JRPG's ongoing primary-coloured charm aesthetic, while the ponderous, precise nature of the combat contains none of the insta-thrill of its exuberant, button-mashing contemporaries

I'm no fan of the genre westerners refer to as the JRPG," says Takeshi Kajii ( even he makes a distiction)

This ends the ENTIRE thread, unless the dark souls fanboys want to act as though the designers themselves are delusional?

musalala