For those in denial, Dark Souls is JRPG, not a WRPG

[QUOTE="parkurtommo"]

What exactly makes Dark Souls a WRPG? The fact that it isn't turn based? :roll:

BlbecekBobecek

1) Aesthetics - Environments are typical middle-age Europe (gothic and roman architecture), weapons and armors are generally middle-age european too. Dragons are typical european dragons too (this made a few people laugh because of their lack of education, so I will post a link here:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_dragon). The same can be said about most weapons and armor and basically about anything in the game.

2) Artistic style - Well, this one is obvious. Dark Souls is much closer to typical WRPGs like Dragon Age Origins as well as to such WRPG classics like Dungeon Master, Wizardry series, Ultima series, etc. etc. and its basically as far from JRPG anime-like artistic style as you can get.

3) Storytelling (or the lack off) - One of the signs of JRPGs is that they are dialogue-heavy. The story is very thought out and someone always has to state even the obious just in case players would miss it. A contrario storytelling in Demons/Dark Souls is minimalistic and mostly resembles Diablo (and - of course - Dungeon Master).

4) Characters- You dont play a kid or an adolescent and the game doesnt begin in your room with mum calling you for a breakfast in Dark Souls. The Characters dont try to solve their past, there is little emotional stuff. When a character dies, there is nothing at all pathetic about it. Some fans of JRPG (and I consider myself a fan of JRPGs) could say that characters in DS are shallow, but I dont think so, I think their story is just told in a different way.

5) Gameplay- JRPGs combat system typically uses menu system to start attacks and cast spells. WRPGs are typically real time (again to name a few - Dungeon Master, Diablo, TES series, Gothic/Risen series, Withcer series etc. etc.). There are exceptions breaking the rule though.

6) Mythology- You are undead, enemies are skeletons, the various bosses are obviously inspired by pagan mythology (=mythology of european nations before they accepted christianity), I already mentioned dragons, the origin of the world is also a mixture of various pagan mythologies.

And Im sure I could go on for a few more points, but I think this more than enough. Its obvious that the intentionof developers was to have nothing in common with JRPGs and they were very carefull about that.

Just for the record - I love JRPGs and I play them a lot, but I just know WRPG when I see one.

EDIT: By "roman architecture" I meant "romanesque architecture" - English is not my native language so I confused the two, sorry for that.

[QUOTE="musalala"]

And why are people convinently ignoring The interview Makari posted in which the devs basically say the wanted to make a a game that had WRPG elementsbased on fantasy novels of wizadry, whichh are the primary influence on WRPG.

http://www.next-gen.biz/features/interview-demons-souls

Likewise, the dark, heavy fantasy setting runs contrary to the JRPG's ongoing primary-coloured charm aesthetic, while the ponderous, precise nature of the combat contains none of the insta-thrill of its exuberant, button-mashing contemporaries

I'm no fan of the genre westerners refer to as the JRPG," says Takeshi Kajii ( even he makes a distiction)

This ends the ENTIRE thread, unless the dark souls fanboys want to act as though the designers themselves are delusional?

smerlus

Thats a really pathetic excuse, they are not making hype staements here they are explictly saying what influnced them

1.Their game was inluenced stongly by the same things that influenced WRPG ( the high fanatsy swaord and socery genre)

2.They themselevs used the term JRPG and then lay out what that means (anime themed content) and state that they didn"t want their game to have those design asthetics

They even mentioned that people see a strong resemblence between their game and and WRPG like diablo.

They maybe a Japanese company but their game is very heavily influenced by non japanese westren fanatsy elements

The only reseasn this stupid debate is continuing is because alot of you are fans of Japanese developers and the thought that one of the best Japanes games made this gen had to Borrow heavily from the west in order to be successful is too painful to admit, so you come up with these convoluted and very silly rationalisations to avoid this truth.

[QUOTE="smerlus"]

[QUOTE="musalala"]

And why are people convinently ignoring The interview Makari posted in which the devs basically say the wanted to make a a game that had WRPG elementsbased on fantasy novels of wizadry, whichh are the primary influence on WRPG.

http://www.next-gen.biz/features/interview-demons-souls

Likewise, the dark, heavy fantasy setting runs contrary to the JRPG's ongoing primary-coloured charm aesthetic, while the ponderous, precise nature of the combat contains none of the insta-thrill of its exuberant, button-mashing contemporaries

I'm no fan of the genre westerners refer to as the JRPG," says Takeshi Kajii ( even he makes a distiction)

This ends the ENTIRE thread, unless the dark souls fanboys want to act as though the designers themselves are delusional?

musalala

Thats a really pathetic excuse, they are not making hype staements here they are explictly saying what influnced them

1.Their game was inluenced stongly by the same things that influenced WRPG ( the high fanatsy swaord and socery genre)

2.They themselevs used the term JRPG and then lay out what that means (anime themed content) and state that they didn"t want their game to have those design asthetics

They even mentioned that people see a strong resemblence between their game and and WRPG like diablo.

They maybe a Japanese company but their game is very heavily influenced by non japanese westren fanatsy elements

The only reseasn this stupid debate is continuing is because alot of you are fans of Japanese developers and the thought that one of the best Japanes games made this gen had to Borrow heavily from the west in order to be successful is too painful to admit, so you come up with these convoluted and very silly rationalisations to avoid this truth.

And your JRPG fanboy comment is so far off track that it's not even funny. Like my post above yours, the whole genre is already borrowed from the west besides anime so there really are no jrpgs based on your logic

[QUOTE="musalala"]

[QUOTE="smerlus"] Peter M said Fable 1 was going to be the best RPG ever, people from BioWare said Dragon Age 2's dumbing down was in fact added depth. if we listen to game developers then nothing would be accomplished

smerlus

Thats a really pathetic excuse, they are not making hype staements here they are explictly saying what influnced them

1.Their game was inluenced stongly by the same things that influenced WRPG ( the high fanatsy swaord and socery genre)

2.They themselevs used the term JRPG and then lay out what that means (anime themed content) and state that they didn"t want their game to have those design asthetics

They even mentioned that people see a strong resemblence between their game and and WRPG like diablo.

They maybe a Japanese company but their game is very heavily influenced by non japanese westren fanatsy elements

The only reseasn this stupid debate is continuing is because alot of you are fans of Japanese developers and the thought that one of the best Japanes games made this gen had to Borrow heavily from the west in order to be successful is too painful to admit, so you come up with these convoluted and very silly rationalisations to avoid this truth.

And your JRPG fanboy comment is so far off track that it's not even funny. Like my post above yours, the whole genre is already borrowed from the west besides anime so there really are no jrpgs based on your logic

The JRPG fanboy comment may be off track but its true, AND the only reason I have an agenda is because this whole thread has an agenda, The game is not a JRPG but JRPG fans want to make it seem that it is. If you read all the responses this is the crux of the matter. JRPG ( according to what the producers of Dark Souls) have a specific design approach which is why the are called JRPG"s they go on to say "we didnt want that in our game"( so we don"t want our game to be a JRPG) they state that they were influenced by what influenced WRPG (high fanatsy sword and scocery) But people in this thread state no dark souls is a JRPG and was not influenced by the west and is uniquly japanese ( something that they the devs expressly sated its not) Is this not denial how would you explain this?

The reason I said you example was pathetic was because they interview is not hyping the game its a straight explanation as to what influenecd their game, those examples you gave of Fable and dragon age 2 are not good ones, even fans of WRPG acknowledge that dragon age 2 is not a wrpg.

[QUOTE="smerlus"]

[QUOTE="musalala"]

Thats a really pathetic excuse, they are not making hype staements here they are explictly saying what influnced them

1.Their game was inluenced stongly by the same things that influenced WRPG ( the high fanatsy swaord and socery genre)

2.They themselevs used the term JRPG and then lay out what that means (anime themed content) and state that they didn"t want their game to have those design asthetics

They even mentioned that people see a strong resemblence between their game and and WRPG like diablo.

They maybe a Japanese company but their game is very heavily influenced by non japanese westren fanatsy elements

The only reseasn this stupid debate is continuing is because alot of you are fans of Japanese developers and the thought that one of the best Japanes games made this gen had to Borrow heavily from the west in order to be successful is too painful to admit, so you come up with these convoluted and very silly rationalisations to avoid this truth.

musalala

And your JRPG fanboy comment is so far off track that it's not even funny. Like my post above yours, the whole genre is already borrowed from the west besides anime so there really are no jrpgs based on your logic

The JRPG fanboy comment may be off track but its true, AND the only reason I have an agenda is because this whole thread has an agenda, The game is not a JRPG but JRPG fans want to make it seem that it is. If you read all the responses this is the crux of the matter. JRPG ( according to what the producers of Dark Souls) have a specific design approach which is why the are called JRPG"s they go on to say "we didnt want that in our game"( so we don"t want our game to be a JRPG) they state that they were influenced by what influenced WRPG (high fanatsy sword and scocery) But people in this thread state no dark souls is a JRPG and was not influenced by the west and is uniquly japanese ( something that they the devs expressly sated its not) Is this not denial how would you explain this?

The reason I said you example was pathetic was because they interview is not hyping the game its a straight explanation as to what influenecd their game, those examples you gave of Fable and dragon age 2 are not good ones, even fans of WRPG acknowledge that dragon age 2 is not a wrpg.

Since when? And if not a WRPG than what is it?

The terms are regional. J is Japanese, W is Western. They were derived from where the games came from. Dark Souls may choose to go the route of swords and sorcery fantasy, etc, but influences do not make it a WRPG.

When Doom 3 came out, there was an interview done for the tram station level and how it was based off of Akira. Doesn't mean Doom 3 somehow isn't a corridor shooter. Dark Souls may take influence from the West, but it is still made in the East. It's a JRPG regardless of what the devs want it to be called. Peter Molyneaux may want us to call his games the greatest in the world, but we don't. From Software may want us to call their game a WRPG. But it isn't.

The terms are regional. J is Japanese, W is Western. They were derived from where the games came from.

NeonNinja

Then you are using the terms incorrectly.

I mean **** when the actual developer of the game itself acknowledges the fact that the terms exist because of differences in game design then you should know you're wrong.

Why do you keep going on with this? You honestly think people put the "J" in front of RPG because there were RPGs being made in Japan? You seriously think that's why it started? SERIOUSLY???

[QUOTE="NeonNinja"]

The terms are regional. J is Japanese, W is Western. They were derived from where the games came from.

SW__Troll

Then you are using the terms incorrectly.

I mean **** when the actual developer of the game itself acknowledges the fact that the terms exist because of differences in game design then you should know you're wrong.

Why do you keep going on with this? You honestly think people put the "J" in front of RPG because there were RPGs being made in Japan? You seriously think that's why it started? SERIOUSLY???

Yeah.

I seriously think that. And apparently so do a lot of people for the discussion to be going on this long.

Why else would their be a J in front of RPG? Why not just call it Action-RPG or Turn-based or Rogue-like? As I've pointed out in the OP, I think both the J and W are stupid, but since we're stuck with the terms why would we use them to mean anything other than the region? JRPG is not a type of gameplay, roguelike is. WRPG is not a type of gameplay, turn-based is.

[QUOTE="SW__Troll"]

[QUOTE="NeonNinja"]

The terms are regional. J is Japanese, W is Western. They were derived from where the games came from.

NeonNinja

Then you are using the terms incorrectly.

I mean **** when the actual developer of the game itself acknowledges the fact that the terms exist because of differences in game design then you should know you're wrong.

Why do you keep going on with this? You honestly think people put the "J" in front of RPG because there were RPGs being made in Japan? You seriously think that's why it started? SERIOUSLY???

Yeah.

I seriously think that. And apparently so do a lot of people for the discussion to be going on this long.

Why else would their be a J in front of RPG? Why not just call it Action-RPG or Turn-based or Rogue-like? As I've pointed out in the OP, I think both the J and W are stupid, but since we're stuck with the terms why would we use them to mean anything other than the region? JRPG is not a type of gameplay, roguelike is. WRPG is not a type of gameplay, turn-based is.

Why else would there be? Uh......you've read this thread right?

Just because a lot of people in this thread are too young, or naive to know what the term means does not mean they're magically using it correctly when using it in a different way.

Quit acting oblivious to the facts. Everyone knows what people are talking about when they say JRPG or WRPG. I know it, you know it, everyone in this thread knows it, and developers themselves know it.

[QUOTE="NeonNinja"]

[QUOTE="SW__Troll"]

Then you are using the terms incorrectly.

I mean **** when the actual developer of the game itself acknowledges the fact that the terms exist because of differences in game design then you should know you're wrong.

Why do you keep going on with this? You honestly think people put the "J" in front of RPG because there were RPGs being made in Japan? You seriously think that's why it started? SERIOUSLY???

SW__Troll

Yeah.

I seriously think that. And apparently so do a lot of people for the discussion to be going on this long.

Why else would their be a J in front of RPG? Why not just call it Action-RPG or Turn-based or Rogue-like? As I've pointed out in the OP, I think both the J and W are stupid, but since we're stuck with the terms why would we use them to mean anything other than the region? JRPG is not a type of gameplay, roguelike is. WRPG is not a type of gameplay, turn-based is.

Why else would there be? Uh......you've read this thread right?

Just because a lot of people in this thread are too young, or naive to know what the term means does not mean they're magically using it correctly when using it in a different way.

Quit acting oblivious to the facts. Everyone knows what people are talking about when they say JRPG or WRPG. I know it, you know it, everyone in this thread knows it, and developers themselves know it.

I read the thread. I read your first response to me way near the middle, etc. I'm not acting oblivious.

Yeah, From Software said they don't want to be associated with the term JRPG because their influences are from the west. Yeah, some people say it's a gameplay and aesthetic styIe. Some say JRPG means there's a focus on story as opposed to game interaction. But I see it as Japanese Role-Playing Game. Mass Effect 2and Dragon Age 2 both follow under the whole focus on story as opposed to game interaction, but I don't view them as JRPG.

I don't care what the devs wantDark Soulsto be called. I only use the term RPG in conversation, but if I'm stuck with the two sub-terms of JRPG and WRPG when I come onto these forums, I say Dark Souls is a JRPG.

As another user pointed out, is Avatar: The Last Airbender considered an anime because of what it tries to be? Nope. Why would Dark Souls be any different?

EDIT- I got cIass in the morning, so I'll have to continue our talk another time if you're still interested.

[QUOTE="smerlus"]

[QUOTE="musalala"]

Thats a really pathetic excuse, they are not making hype staements here they are explictly saying what influnced them

1.Their game was inluenced stongly by the same things that influenced WRPG ( the high fanatsy swaord and socery genre)

2.They themselevs used the term JRPG and then lay out what that means (anime themed content) and state that they didn"t want their game to have those design asthetics

They even mentioned that people see a strong resemblence between their game and and WRPG like diablo.

They maybe a Japanese company but their game is very heavily influenced by non japanese westren fanatsy elements

The only reseasn this stupid debate is continuing is because alot of you are fans of Japanese developers and the thought that one of the best Japanes games made this gen had to Borrow heavily from the west in order to be successful is too painful to admit, so you come up with these convoluted and very silly rationalisations to avoid this truth.

And your JRPG fanboy comment is so far off track that it's not even funny. Like my post above yours, the whole genre is already borrowed from the west besides anime so there really are no jrpgs based on your logic

The JRPG fanboy comment may be off track but its true, AND the only reason I have an agenda is because this whole thread has an agenda, The game is not a JRPG but JRPG fans want to make it seem that it is. If you read all the responses this is the crux of the matter. JRPG ( according to what the producers of Dark Souls) have a specific design approach which is why the are called JRPG"s they go on to say "we didnt want that in our game"( so we don"t want our game to be a JRPG) they state that they were influenced by what influenced WRPG (high fanatsy sword and scocery) But people in this thread state no dark souls is a JRPG and was not influenced by the west and is uniquly japanese ( something that they the devs expressly sated its not) Is this not denial how would you explain this?

The reason I said you example was pathetic was because they interview is not hyping the game its a straight explanation as to what influenecd their game, those examples you gave of Fable and dragon age 2 are not good ones, even fans of WRPG acknowledge that dragon age 2 is not a wrpg.

It's a JRPG influenced by WRPGs.....You don't call it a WRPG just because it has heavy western influences, that's just dumb.

If we were to go by that, that means practically every JRPG made from SNES and back were actually WRPGs because they were heavily influenced by Ultima and Wizardry.

Plus, it's clear that Dark Souls/Demon's Souls are japanese made games either way.

Peter M said Fable 1 was going to be the best RPG ever, people from BioWare said Dragon Age 2's dumbing down was in fact added depth. if we listen to game developers then nothing would be accomplished

smerlus

THe funny thing is that this whole long thread could be avoided by not using shortened versions of genre names. Nobody can deny that Dark Soul is designed like wRPGs, so all people would have to do is call it "Western-style RPG" and those few additional letters would stop the whole discussion

What's kind of sad is that if people want to really get down to it, the only thing that would make a game a jrpg if it isn't about region is anime inspired characters. Random encounters, menu driven turn based gameplay or even real time game play, stats, skill trees, linear stories...all were created in the west first. Japanese even said they were influenced by Ultima and Wizardry. So the only thing that could possibly indicate a JRPG is an anime style...and elipses.smerlus

Genres aren't defined by where they come from, they're designed by how they play.

What falls under "anime style?"

everything that a JRPG has in it has been done before by a western developer except for Anime. smerlus

Really? Everything?

[QUOTE="smerlus"]

Peter M said Fable 1 was going to be the best RPG ever, people from BioWare said Dragon Age 2's dumbing down was in fact added depth. if we listen to game developers then nothing would be accomplished

AdrianWerner

THe funny thing is that this whole long thread could be avoided by not using shortened versions of genre names. Nobody can deny that Dark Soul is designed like wRPGs, so all people would have to do is call it "Western-style RPG" and those few additional letters would stop the whole discussion

The hordes of Dark souls fanboys are denying that it was influenced exclusivly by the west and violently say its uniquely japanese, eveyone else is saying it was built from the gound up using westen ideas.

[QUOTE="musalala"]

[QUOTE="smerlus"] And Peter M said he made the best RPG based on experience with other games...what's the difference between what you posted and what I posted? Oh that's right, you have an agenda.

And your JRPG fanboy comment is so far off track that it's not even funny. Like my post above yours, the whole genre is already borrowed from the west besides anime so there really are no jrpgs based on your logic

smerlus

The JRPG fanboy comment may be off track but its true, AND the only reason I have an agenda is because this whole thread has an agenda, The game is not a JRPG but JRPG fans want to make it seem that it is. If you read all the responses this is the crux of the matter. JRPG ( according to what the producers of Dark Souls) have a specific design approach which is why the are called JRPG"s they go on to say "we didnt want that in our game"( so we don"t want our game to be a JRPG) they state that they were influenced by what influenced WRPG (high fanatsy sword and scocery) But people in this thread state no dark souls is a JRPG and was not influenced by the west and is uniquly japanese ( something that they the devs expressly sated its not) Is this not denial how would you explain this?

The reason I said you example was pathetic was because they interview is not hyping the game its a straight explanation as to what influenecd their game, those examples you gave of Fable and dragon age 2 are not good ones, even fans of WRPG acknowledge that dragon age 2 is not a wrpg.

Sorry dude I just realised we are almost saying the same thing my apologies for attacking you :oops:

But your comment about JRPG being influened by the WRPG will get you into trouble. I agree JRPG were only possible because the glorious Light of WRPG influenced them, in fact JRPG are basically poor rip offs of WRPG which is why they are being discard and thrown by the wayside,,This is the reason Fromsoft ware deecided to use pure WRPG in their design because the anime rubbish is horrible. Thats why FFXIII is an abomination

You're all wrong. Dark Souls is a CRPG.

CRPG = Crappy Role Playing Game, in case you didn't know.

It's a JRPG influenced by WRPGs.....You don't call it a WRPG just because it has heavy western influences, that's just dumb.

If we were to go by that, that means practically every JRPG made from SNES and back were actually WRPGs because they were heavily influenced by Ultima and Wizardry.

Plus, it's clear that Dark Souls/Demon's Souls are japanese made games either way.

TheRealistyk

that argument doesn't hold up. JRPG had western influences sure, but those were just ingredients, not the final product. JRPGs were a new genre, distinct from Wizardry and Ultima. Demon's Souls (the final product) fits in with games like The Witcher and Elder Scrolls much better than with Final Fantasy.

Why can't it just be an rpg? :?

there is no J or W in RPG...

Why can't it just be an rpg? :?

supdotcom

Because that would mean WRPG fans would have to let those pesky JRPG fans into the clubhouse! Ugh!

I read the thread. I read your first response to me way near the middle, etc. I'm not acting oblivious.

NeonNinja

Sure you are. It's the entire reason you still choose to use the term incorrectly.

Tell me with a straight face how "West" is a regional thing? How is that 195 countries, not named Japan, are considered part of the west?

Seriously if you want to keep using the terms wrong then you better start sticking country initials to the front of every RPG. That way you can at least be right by your poor way of thinking. Using WRPG is 100% wrong if you're talking about where it's developed as opposed to its design.

[QUOTE="SaltyMeatballs"]

Then why distinguish between JRPG and WRPG if they are not different? Let's face it, most of the time WRPG and JRPG's look and play in a different way, they are RPG's but there are differences. People certainly don't point out the origin of the game for no reason...

Dark Souls is just one of those games where it's made in Japan but looks/plays closer to what WRPG's have been.

Do we call games WFPS (western FPS)? EUFPS (european FPS?)? No, because they're the same. WRPG's and JRPG's tend to be different, as I said.

Chrome-

SERIOUSLY?

JRPG = Japanese ROLE PLAYING GAME. DARK SOULS is a JAPANESE ROLE PLAYING GAME

JRPGs were a new genre, distinct from Wizardry and Ultima.

GunSmith1_basic

Yeah, From Software said they don't want to be associated with the term JRPG because their influences are from the west. Yeah, some people say it's a gameplay and aesthetic styIe. Some say JRPG means there's a focus on story as opposed to game interaction. But I see it as Japanese Role-Playing Game. Mass Effect 2and Dragon Age 2 both follow under the whole focus on story as opposed to game interaction, but I don't view them as JRPG. I don't care what the devs wantDark Soulsto be called. I only use the term RPG in conversation, but if I'm stuck with the two sub-terms of JRPG and WRPG when I come onto these forums, I say Dark Souls is a JRPG.NeonNinja

[QUOTE="NeonNinja"]Yeah, From Software said they don't want to be associated with the term JRPG because their influences are from the west. Yeah, some people say it's a gameplay and aesthetic styIe. Some say JRPG means there's a focus on story as opposed to game interaction. But I see it as Japanese Role-Playing Game. Mass Effect 2and Dragon Age 2 both follow under the whole focus on story as opposed to game interaction, but I don't view them as JRPG. I don't care what the devs wantDark Soulsto be called. I only use the term RPG in conversation, but if I'm stuck with the two sub-terms of JRPG and WRPG when I come onto these forums, I say Dark Souls is a JRPG.Makari

Makari you essentially finished this thread when you posted the interview with the devs themselves stating demon souls is not a JRPG, Kudos to you. What is now happening here is damage control, They know they are wrong but will not aknowledge it, Lets face it JRPG of late are s***T no one cares for them and they are stagnant, the fact that fromsofteware had to essentially build their game by ignoring the said sh****ness of most JRPG and incoporate WRPG principles is just too much for them to deal with.It would be tantamount to admitting that The west make better rpg's and THAT IS UNTHINKABLE so they will use every ounce of power they have even defing the laws of logic and reason to prevent this from happening

[QUOTE="Makari"][QUOTE="NeonNinja"]Yeah, From Software said they don't want to be associated with the term JRPG because their influences are from the west. Yeah, some people say it's a gameplay and aesthetic styIe. Some say JRPG means there's a focus on story as opposed to game interaction. But I see it as Japanese Role-Playing Game. Mass Effect 2and Dragon Age 2 both follow under the whole focus on story as opposed to game interaction, but I don't view them as JRPG. I don't care what the devs wantDark Soulsto be called. I only use the term RPG in conversation, but if I'm stuck with the two sub-terms of JRPG and WRPG when I come onto these forums, I say Dark Souls is a JRPG.musalala

Makari you essentially finished this thread when you posted the interview with the devs themselves stating demon souls is not a JRPG, Kudos to you. What is now happening here is damage control, They know they are wrong but will not aknowledge it, Lets face it JRPG of late are s***T no one cares for them and they are stagnant, the fact that fromsofteware had to essentially build their game by ignoring the said sh****ness of most JRPG and incoporate WRPG principles is just too much for them to deal with.It would be tantamount to admitting that The west make better rpg's and THAT IS UNTHINKABLE so they will use every ounce of power they have even defing the laws of logic and reason to prevent this from happening

Agreed.

...

I just dont agree with the part about JRPGs. FFXIII is s**t indeed, but there are still great JRPGs like Xenoblade Chronicles, Valkyria Chronicles, and all those cool handheld JRPGs (JRPG is the best genre for handhelds imo). Its fact that currently the genre is in a sort of stagnation (partly because devs for some reason dont want to make beautiful story with proper turn-based combat and go for stupid FFXIII combat mechanics that dont even work properly), but I have high hopes for games like FF versus XIII to put JRPGs back on the map even on home consoles.

[QUOTE="smerlus"]

Peter M said Fable 1 was going to be the best RPG ever, people from BioWare said Dragon Age 2's dumbing down was in fact added depth. if we listen to game developers then nothing would be accomplished

THe funny thing is that this whole long thread could be avoided by not using shortened versions of genre names. Nobody can deny that Dark Soul is designed like wRPGs, so all people would have to do is call it "Western-style RPG" and those few additional letters would stop the whole discussion

What falls under "anime style?"

[QUOTE="smerlus"]everything that a JRPG has in it has been done before by a western developer except for Anime .

Really? Everything?

Why can't it just be an rpg? :?

supdotcom

lol

After the success of console role-playing games in Japan, the role-playing genre eventually began being classified into two fairly distinct styIes since the early 2000s, Western role-playing games (previously known as computer RPGs) and Japanese role-playing games or JRPGs (previously known as console RPGs), due to stylistic, gameplay and/or cultural reasons; with the latter having become popularized and heavily influenced by early Japanese console games such as Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy.

Seems to me that the style of the games is what makes them different not their place of creation so Demon souls and dark souls are wrpgs...

I always wondered....what if Eidos made a Final Fantasy game? (It really could happen) Do we called it a WRPG or JRPG? Based on some people's claims here, it should be a WRPG. And we know that's bull.

[QUOTE="Kolev_Plus"]For those in denial, Dark Souls is terrible, not great.Master_ShakeXXX

Yeah, I didn't get this logic before Skyrim came out and I definitely don't understand it now. The only similarities between the two is medevial combat in a fantasy setting. You can easily like both -- I do.

lol

After the success of console role-playing games in Japan, the role-playing genre eventually began being classified into two fairly distinct styIes since the early 2000s, Western role-playing games (previously known as computer RPGs) and Japanese role-playing games or JRPGs (previously known as console RPGs), due to stylistic, gameplay and/or cultural reasons; with the latter having become popularized and heavily influenced by early Japanese console games such as Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy.

Seems to me that the style of the games is what makes them different not their place of creation so Demon souls and dark souls are wrpgs...

WilliamRLBaker

You're all wrong. Dark Souls is a CRPG.

CRPG = Crappy Role Playing Game, in case you didn't know.

DerpyMcDerp

[QUOTE="DerpyMcDerp"]

You're all wrong. Dark Souls is a CRPG.

CRPG = Crappy Role Playing Game, in case you didn't know.

RavenLoud

lol

After the success of console role-playing games in Japan, the role-playing genre eventually began being classified into two fairly distinct styIes since the early 2000s, Western role-playing games (previously known as computer RPGs) and Japanese role-playing games or JRPGs (previously known as console RPGs), due to stylistic, gameplay and/or cultural reasons; with the latter having become popularized and heavily influenced by early Japanese console games such as Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy.

Seems to me that the style of the games is what makes them different not their place of creation so Demon souls and dark souls are wrpgs...

WilliamRLBaker

You're all wrong. Dark Souls is a CRPG.

CRPG = Crappy Role Playing Game, in case you didn't know.

DerpyMcDerp

[QUOTE="NeonNinja"]

I read the thread. I read your first response to me way near the middle, etc. I'm not acting oblivious.

SW__Troll

Sure you are. It's the entire reason you still choose to use the term incorrectly.

Tell me with a straight face how "West" is a regional thing? How is that 195 countries, not named Japan, are considered part of the west?

Seriously if you want to keep using the terms wrong then you better start sticking country initials to the front of every RPG. That way you can at least be right by your poor way of thinking. Using WRPG is 100% wrong if you're talking about where it's developed as opposed to its design.

They develop RPGs in 195 different countries? I always took West to mean North America and Europe. I don't even know what games developed in other Asian countries would be considered. All I know is I see Japanese and Western. Those are not sub-genres of RPG, so why would I use them as such?

[QUOTE="NeonNinja"]Yeah, From Software said they don't want to be associated with the term JRPG because their influences are from the west. Yeah, some people say it's a gameplay and aesthetic styIe. Some say JRPG means there's a focus on story as opposed to game interaction. But I see it as Japanese Role-Playing Game. Mass Effect 2and Dragon Age 2 both follow under the whole focus on story as opposed to game interaction, but I don't view them as JRPG. I don't care what the devs wantDark Soulsto be called. I only use the term RPG in conversation, but if I'm stuck with the two sub-terms of JRPG and WRPG when I come onto these forums, I say Dark Souls is a JRPG.Makari

The beer example is a good one.

My problem stems with the term itself. As I said in the OP, I hate both J and W and I don't use them in conversation, but they are in use and soI take them to be regional because of what the terms are: Japanese and Western. They flat out should not exist, but they do. Why would I use the term Western RPG to describe a game made in Japan? Or JRPG to describe a game not made in Japan? And going further back, Baker said the terms are derived from Console RPGs and Computer RPGs. That at least makes more sense to me as opposed to calling them Japanese and Western.

lol

After the success of console role-playing games in Japan, the role-playing genre eventually began being classified into two fairly distinct styIes since the early 2000s, Western role-playing games (previously known as computer RPGs) and Japanese role-playing games or JRPGs (previously known as console RPGs), due to stylistic, gameplay and/or cultural reasons; with the latter having become popularized and heavily influenced by early Japanese console games such as Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy.

Seems to me that the style of the games is what makes them different not their place of creation so Demon souls and dark souls are wrpgs...

WilliamRLBaker

Meh, it's a pretty silly debate in my opinion. It's like compairing Anime to Anime-inspired series like Avatar: the Last Airbender. Has all the qualities of an anime, but technically not an anime. In the end though, it doesn't really ake a difference.

I just refer to DS as a Dungeon-Crawler Arpg

Who gives a sh*t if it's from the West or Asia....

I just refer to DS as a Dungeon-Crawler Arpg

Kandlegoat

Lol while were at it lets call fps from the west wfps, so we can fulfill this need to give genre a region name. Calling Dark Souls not an wrpg is one thing but insisting that is an jrpg is another. Go play Chrono Trigger or ff7, ff8, saga frontier etc and compare that to Dark Souls Im sure you would find those games playing similar am I right :x?

To me everything is RPG. Dont care if its J or W or hack and slash or whatever.... RPG genreAzatiS

Same here.

Dark Souls has giant rats and spiders, that alone qualifies it as WRPG