Fallout 3 to be approachable to newcomers!

this is great news

accessibility .. aka 'watering-down' to some hermits, is another great thing

that's why i like oblivion more than morrowind, or bioshock more than system shock 2 .. and explains why many people were disappointed with oblivion / bioshock

akif22

Accessibility is a GREAT thing. But not when it sacrifices depth. Why must we have either:

A) Deep, but hard to get into games.

or

B) Accessible, but shallow games.

?

Why can't there just be a game thats accessible AND deep? It frustrates me.

[QUOTE="RuprechtMonkey"]So, realy, it's not like Oblivion with guns so much as it is Morrowind with guns.Vandalvideo

Yes, that's called "Marketing the game." If he had said "Morrowind with guns" a lot of people he would be trying to appeal to would've thought "....Morro-wind??"

I've put more hours into the Elder Scrolls series than 99% of people who have played them, and everything I said was true. Oblivion's two major differences (well, "most frequently voiced complaints" I suppose, as there are other differences that are better when moving from Morrowind to Oblivion, like combat for example, and other negatives [though they are positives for some people] that aren't complained about as often... stuff like Pole Arms gone, etc.) were the levelling system and the environments. Morrowind had a wild and "magical" environment (more similar to that of the Shivering Isles exp. than anything in vanilla Oblivion.)

They aren;t applying the levelling nor the extremely large mapsize to Fallout (as they did in Oblivion, and as it turned out larger meant "Larger but more repetitive.") They've said they're shrinking it down and tightening it up (and hopefully that translates to a more "Magical" landscape.)

So, yes, closer to Morrowind.

And yes, I know you're just going to vomit out the same stuff you've said a million times about Bethesda being the devil due to this. In reality though, either NO Fallout game was going to be made, or Bethesda was going to make their own brand of Fallout game. So, the choice is no game, or a game that happens to bear the Fallout name that may or may not be great. Easy choice in my book. Also, to think they are beholden to YOU and your small circle of friends is absolutely laughable, sorry.

Not a huge fan of G4, but Sessler hit it right on the head.
http://hellforge.gameriot.com/blogs/Hellforge/Adam-Sessler-Tackles-Diablo-III-Haters/

[QUOTE="Verge_6"]The funny thing here is that I never, not once, stated that the atmosphere was the same. I stated clearly how the atmosphere and feel I personally recieved from the prior two installments seemed to be present. For further clarrification, I have linked webster's definition of the term. You also seem to be under the impression I was referring to the whole game seeming to be 'the same', rather than simply the atmosphere and sensation. In fact, I do beleive I stated that I '(had) no clue how I would find the gameplay and combat mechanics'.Vandalvideo

Then I guess I should be grateful I do not define what made the game atmospheric to me by another person's words. How good it is to possess free thought and will.

Also, I thought neither you nor the people you were quoting were telling me what to think, yet my seeing the same atmosphere and feel in Fallout 3 is a 'fallacy'. It's truly amazing the effect this game has on certain PC gamers...

[QUOTE="Verge_6"]The funny thing here is that I never, not once, stated that the atmosphere was the same. I stated clearly how the atmosphere and feel I personally recieved from the prior two installments seemed to be present. For further clarrification, I have linked webster's definition of the term. You also seem to be under the impression I was referring to the whole game seeming to be 'the same', rather than simply the atmosphere and sensation. In fact, I do beleive I stated that I '(had) no clue how I would find the gameplay and combat mechanics'.Vandalvideo

If he says he feels or it seems, that is not a logical fallacy. That is a premise that is supported by the facts of the instance.

However, if he says "I feel A therefore A is true," that is the fallacy of subjectivism.

Unless I missed something, yeah, he didn't commit that fallacy.

Yes, that's called "Marketing the game." RuprechtMonkey

[QUOTE="odin2019"]

Yeah I hear you. Thats another thing is that if the dev of the first two fallouts was so good at making games why are they not around any more?

BobHipJames

Hold up a minute....

I need to interject here: Black Isle studios made Planescape Torment, Fallout 1 and 2, and Icewind Dale....

Those are some of the highest rated, best loved, and most frequent additions to "best of" lists of all time.

Fallout 1, for example, made Gamespot's GOTY or at least RPG of the year for the year it came out...

The reason their studio is defunct is that their publusher was defunct....the reason for both becoming financially inviable was essentially because people stopped supporting them. *Cruel glare*

That could happen to anyone. Even though they may have made one or two of the best rpgs ever made some way some how they still couldn't recieve enough support. I guess there was not another company that was interested in a murger or a buyout of their services or rather talent. Maybe they couldn't work out a deal with other companies...I don't know but they went out of business.

[QUOTE="Vandalvideo"][QUOTE="RuprechtMonkey"]So, realy, it's not like Oblivion with guns so much as it is Morrowind with guns.RuprechtMonkey

Yes, that's called "Marketing the game." If he had said "Morrowind with guns" a lot of people he would be trying to appeal to would've thought "....Morro-wind??"

I've put more hours into the Elder Scrolls series than 99% of people who have played them, and everything I said was true. Oblivion's two major differences (well, downsides I suppose, as there are other differences that are better when moving from Morrowind to Oblivion, like combat for example) were the levelling system and the environments. Morrowind had a wild and "magical" environment (more similar to that of the Shivering Isles than anything in Oblivion.)

They aren;t applying the levelling nor the extremely large mapsize to Fallout (as they did in Oblivion, and as it turned out larger meant "Larger but more repetitive.") They've said they're shrinking it down and tightening it up (and hopefully that translates to a more "Magical" landscape.)

So, yes, closer to Morrowind.

And yes, I know you're just going to vomit out the same stuff you've said a million times about Bethesda being the devil due to this. In reality though, either NO Fallout game was going to be made, or Bethesda was going to make their own brand of Fallout game. So, the choice is no game, or a game that happens to bear the Fallout name and may or may not be great. Also, to think they are beholden to YOU and your small circle of friends is absolutely laughable, sorry.

Not a huge fan of G4, but Sessler hit it right on the head.
http://hellforge.gameriot.com/blogs/Hellforge/Adam-Sessler-Tackles-Diablo-III-Haters/

Haloize the world.

Down with the critics.

Oh, wait.

Then I guess I should be grateful I do not define what made the game atmospheric to me by another person's words. How good it is to possess free thought and will.Also, I thought neither you nor the people you were quoting were telling me what to think, yet my seeing the same atmosphere and feel in Fallout 3 is a 'fallacy'. It's truly amazing the effect this game has on certain PC gamers...Verge_6

[QUOTE="BobHipJames"][QUOTE="odin2019"]

Yeah I hear you. Thats another thing is that if the dev of the first two fallouts was so good at making games why are they not around any more?

odin2019

Hold up a minute....

I need to interject here: Black Isle studios made Planescape Torment, Fallout 1 and 2, and Icewind Dale....

Those are some of the highest rated, best loved, and most frequent additions to "best of" lists of all time.

Fallout 1, for example, made Gamespot's GOTY or at least RPG of the year for the year it came out...

The reason their studio is defunct is that their publusher was defunct....the reason for both becoming financially inviable was essentially because people stopped supporting them. *Cruel glare*

That could happen to anyone. Even though they may have made one or two of the best rpgs ever made some way some how they still couldn't recieve enough support.

Have you ever played any of them?

The answer is no. Therefore, the reason they didn't receieve enough support is probably, in part, because you didn't give it to them for one reason or another. You and everyone else.

Not like I'm trying to play the world's smallest violin, I just think you should acknowledge the fact that you could play "one or two of the best RPGs ever made" if you wanted to. You could even keep that gravy train rolling if you would:

A) buy the games

B) Try to get other people to support the games, the studios, or the genres.

[QUOTE="Verge_6"]Then I guess I should be grateful I do not define what made the game atmospheric to me by another person's words. How good it is to possess free thought and will.Also, I thought neither you nor the people you were quoting were telling me what to think, yet my seeing the same atmosphere and feel in Fallout 3 is a 'fallacy'. It's truly amazing the effect this game has on certain PC gamers...Vandalvideo

It is official ladies and gents, certain views and feelings regarding things are now regarded as FACT and must be UNIFORM!

If he says he feels or it seems, that is not a logical fallacy. That is a premise that is supported by the facts of the instance.However, if he says "I feel A therefore A is true," that is the fallacy of subjectivism. Unless I missed something, yeah, he didn't commit that fallacy. BobHipJames

I'm really excited for this game!

I bought the Fallout collection a few weeks ago, and i'm really loving Fallout 2. I also really enjoyed Oblivion, so i have faith that these guys will deliver a great game!:)

[QUOTE="RuprechtMonkey"]Yes, that's called "Marketing the game." Vandalvideo

Here you go, I'll just repost what I originally wrote.... as it is all true. Have fun screaming with your fellow small circle while everyone continues to stand on the sidelines and laugh.

[QUOTE="Vandalvideo"][QUOTE="RuprechtMonkey"]So, realy, it's not like Oblivion with guns so much as it is Morrowind with guns.RuprechtMonkey

Yes, that's called "Marketing the game." If he had said "Morrowind with guns" a lot of people he would be trying to appeal to would've thought "....Morro-wind??"

I've put more hours into the Elder Scrolls series than 99% of people who have played them, and everything I said was true. Oblivion's two major differences (well, "most frequently voiced complaints" I suppose, as there are other differences that are better when moving from Morrowind to Oblivion, like combat for example, and other negatives [though they are positives for some people] that aren't complained about as often... stuff like Pole Arms gone, etc.) were the levelling system and the environments. Morrowind had a wild and "magical" environment (more similar to that of the Shivering Isles exp. than anything in vanilla Oblivion.)

They aren;t applying the levelling nor the extremely large mapsize to Fallout (as they did in Oblivion, and as it turned out larger meant "Larger but more repetitive.") They've said they're shrinking it down and tightening it up (and hopefully that translates to a more "Magical" landscape.)

So, yes, closer to Morrowind.

And yes, I know you're just going to vomit out the same stuff you've said a million times about Bethesda being the devil due to this. In reality though, either NO Fallout game was going to be made, or Bethesda was going to make their own brand of Fallout game. So, the choice is no game, or a game that happens to bear the Fallout name that may or may not be great. Easy choice in my book. Also, to think they are beholden to YOU and your small circle of friends is absolutely laughable, sorry.

Not a huge fan of G4, but Sessler hit it right on the head.
http://hellforge.gameriot.com/blogs/Hellforge/Adam-Sessler-Tackles-Diablo-III-Haters/

It is official ladies and gents, certain views and feelings regarding things are now regarded as FACT and must be UNIFORM!Verge_6

[QUOTE="odin2019"]

Yeah I hear you. Thats another thing is that if the dev of the first two fallouts was so good at making games why are they not around any more?

BobHipJames

Hold up a minute....

I need to interject here: Black Isle studios made Planescape Torment, Fallout 1 and 2, and Icewind Dale....

Those are some of the highest rated, best loved, and most frequent additions to "best of" lists of all time.

Fallout 1, for example, made Gamespot's GOTY or at least RPG of the year for the year it came out...

The reason their studio is defunct is that their publusher was defunct....the reason for both becoming financially inviable was essentially because people stopped supporting them. *Cruel glare*

Given their genre and budgets, Black Isle games sold pretty well. If Interplay was properly managed, Black Isle would probably be around today. Hell, Obsidian was founded by 6 former Black Isle guys and they're doing really well.

Here you go, I'll just repost what I originally wrote.... as it is all true. Have fun screaming with your fellow small circle while everyone continues to stand on the sidelines and laugh.]RuprechtMonkey

I'm really excited for this game!

I bought the Fallout collection a few weeks ago, and i'm really loving Fallout 2. I also really enjoyed Oblivion, so i have faith that these guys will deliver a great game!:)

SSJ_Nega

ALL HAIL THE CHOSEN ONE!

Yeah, Fallout 2 was awesome. Mna, it's been years.

This game should be great too. Can't come soon enough.

[QUOTE="Verge_6"]It is official ladies and gents, certain views and feelings regarding things are now regarded as FACT and must be UNIFORM!Vandalvideo

I think he was talking about visual atmosphere, not game atmosphere.

[QUOTE="BobHipJames"]If he says he feels or it seems, that is not a logical fallacy. That is a premise that is supported by the facts of the instance.However, if he says "I feel A therefore A is true," that is the fallacy of subjectivism. Unless I missed something, yeah, he didn't commit that fallacy. Vandalvideo

So, how am I wrong about how I feel, when you don't even know how/what/why I feel?

I think he was talking about visual atmosphere, not game atmosphere. organic_machine

So, how am I wrong about how I feel, when you don't even know how/what/why I feel?Verge_6

[QUOTE="odin2019"][QUOTE="BobHipJames"][QUOTE="odin2019"]

Yeah I hear you. Thats another thing is that if the dev of the first two fallouts was so good at making games why are they not around any more?

BobHipJames

Hold up a minute....

I need to interject here: Black Isle studios made Planescape Torment, Fallout 1 and 2, and Icewind Dale....

Those are some of the highest rated, best loved, and most frequent additions to "best of" lists of all time.

Fallout 1, for example, made Gamespot's GOTY or at least RPG of the year for the year it came out...

The reason their studio is defunct is that their publusher was defunct....the reason for both becoming financially inviable was essentially because people stopped supporting them. *Cruel glare*

That could happen to anyone. Even though they may have made one or two of the best rpgs ever made some way some how they still couldn't recieve enough support.

Have you ever played any of them?

The answer is no. Therefore, the reason they didn't receieve enough support is probably, in part, because you didn't give it to them for one reason or another. You and everyone else.

Not like I'm trying to play the world's smallest violin, I just think you should acknowledge the fact that you could play "one or two of the best RPGs ever made" if you wanted to. You could even keep that gravy train rolling if you would:

A) buy the games

B) Try to get other people to support the games, the studios, or the genres.

Just because I didn't buy their game or games doesn't mean that couldn't have been a big success without me. When the majority of gamers don't buy a game for whatever reason then thats just the way it goes. I guess the game just didn't appeal to enough people out there to match their desires for what they wanted in a game. Still though people might not have been impressed enough with what they saw to go out and buy 1 or 2 of the previous Fallout games apparantely other gaming companies didn't see enough talent either in the company to invest in a merger or buyout the company. So its not just the gamers.

[QUOTE="Verge_6"]It is official ladies and gents, certain views and feelings regarding things are now regarded as FACT and must be UNIFORM!Vandalvideo

Such a pity that those things only, at best, slightly set the mood and atmosphere for me. Oops, wait, that's right, I'm not allowed to think that, off to the re-education center!

[QUOTE="Verge_6"]So, how am I wrong about how I feel, when you don't even know how/what/why I feel?Vandalvideo

But you don't even know what set the atmosphere for me, so who are you to decide it cannot possibly be the same for me?

[QUOTE="RuprechtMonkey"]Here you go, I'll just repost what I originally wrote.... as it is all true. Have fun screaming with your fellow small circle while everyone continues to stand on the sidelines and laugh.]Vandalvideo

The best part is that you don't seem to realize it also doesn't matter what you have been saying, at all (especailly sad seeing as you say it so often.) Everything I said about the mechanics is 100% factual though.

Truth:

It was no game, or this game.

Truth:

You have the option to buy it or ignore it.

Don't like it that it exists, or how it plays, then choose to ignore it.

If I didn't like the Elder Scrolls series I would surely be choosing to ignore it, I would be miffed seeing as I like Fallout but I would not be sad enough to waste my time spouting nonsensical arguments against the very existence of the new game or the creators behind it. Luckily I like the Elder Scrolls, which this will resemble (moreso Morrowind than Oblivion,) so I'll give it a go.

And once again, for good measure:

http://hellforge.gameriot.com/blogs/Hellforge/Adam-Sessler-Tackles-Diablo-III-Haters/

So many "Q.F.T.'s"

[QUOTE="Vandalvideo"][QUOTE="Verge_6"]So, how am I wrong about how I feel, when you don't even know how/what/why I feel?Verge_6

But you don't even know what set the atmosphere for me, so who are you to decide it cannot possibly be the same for me?

But you don't even know what set the atmosphere for me, so who are you to decide it cannot possibly be the same for me?Verge_6

The best part is that you don't seem to realize it also doesn't matter what you have been saying, at all (especailly sad seeing as you say it so often.) Everything I said about the mechanics is 100% factual though.RuprechtMonkey

[QUOTE="Verge_6"]

[QUOTE="Vandalvideo"][QUOTE="Verge_6"]So, how am I wrong about how I feel, when you don't even know how/what/why I feel?RobbieH1234

But you don't even know what set the atmosphere for me, so who are you to decide it cannot possibly be the same for me?

Ah, I am SO very glad you asked. What really set the atmosphere for me was the setting of destroyed civilization, seeing mankind slowly rebuild itself while simultaneously tearing itself down once again, human nature overcoming all, fighting for survival, the pseudo-1950's gadgetry...

[QUOTE="Verge_6"]But you don't even know what set the atmosphere for me, so who are you to decide it cannot possibly be the same for me?Vandalvideo

...In the name of Christ, what does it living up to its brandname or not have to do with how I feel about the atmosphere? You are certainly adept at pointing out certain types of fallacies and other intriciacies of logic and reasoning, yet you are completely forgetting about basics like 'preferences' and 'opinions'.

...In the name of Christ, what does it living up to its brandname or not have to do with how I feel about the atmosphere? Verge_6

[QUOTE="swamplord666"][QUOTE="BioShockOwnz"]I wanted this game so bad. I was so hyped. Then I started seeing more gameplay videos. :( This is Oblivion with guns, and I absolutely despise Oblivion.BioShockOwnz

Another thing I'm concerned about is the depressing browns. How fun will this large and open world be to explore? I was bored of Oblivion, yet atleast it had some color to it.

The only reason Oblivion sucked was cause the enemies level'd up with you. If they fix that, I think fallout will be good.

[QUOTE="Verge_6"]...In the name of Christ, what does it living up to its brandname or not have to do with how I feel about the atmosphere? Vandalvideo

It's gone for you. It isn't for me. Deal. Once again, I am confounded how you seem to be so knowledgable about fallacies and whatnot, yet you completely overlook personal opinion and preferences. In fact, I think I am a bit disturbed by this conversation.

It's gone for you. It isn't for me. Deal. Once again, I am confounded how you seem to be so knowledgable about fallacies and whatnot, yet you completely overlook personal opinion and preferences.Verge_6

[QUOTE="Verge_6"]It's gone for you. It isn't for me. Deal. Once again, I am confounded how you seem to be so knowledgable about fallacies and whatnot, yet you completely overlook personal opinion and preferences.Vandalvideo

...This is quite scary. I'm dead serious.

Got to love that nostalgia. They..just..can't get....over..it.

(wow those fallout 2 graphics.. LOL... and there wasn't as much Role playing as you remember :) )

Oh look Tommy if I put another point here my conversation is slightly different! It's amazing!! Yes it is!! Ok gonna play Bauldur's gate, see ya.

[QUOTE="Vandalvideo"][QUOTE="Verge_6"]It's gone for you. It isn't for me. Deal. Once again, I am confounded how you seem to be so knowledgable about fallacies and whatnot, yet you completely overlook personal opinion and preferences.Verge_6

...This is quite scary. I'm dead serious.

hahah, yeah it is. He doesn't realize it though, I'm not sure he's completely capable of doing so.

Anyway, can't post in this thread anymore. I'm being moderated for every post I make (for whatever reason, I thought I was being civil, but whatever. Guess someone has thin skin.)

It's one part sad, one part disturbing, one part funny. Like a clown riding a bicycle at night.

Oh god a Noob friendly oblivion with guns?? I don't even want to try it anymore but I still will.Espada12

OMG Noobs! Am I Rite?

[QUOTE="Espada12"]Oh god a Noob friendly oblivion with guns?? I don't even want to try it anymore but I still will.RuprechtMonkey

OMG Noobs! Am I Rite?

Eh I don't mean it in anyway as this game has no mulitplayer I mean it as in a this game will be too easy kinda of way!

Dont hate that large boring tunnel you speak of is EPIC! How could I have forgotten it? (very easy actaully. wow that did suck and the rest about as good)Vortec33

I DEMAND ANTS, I DEMAND SCORPIONS (AND NOTHING ELSE) I DEMAND ONLY PUNCHES AND KICKS. Boredom must somehow be incorporated into the beginning of Fallout 3, or Bethesda should be killed. Slow, discouraging start is part of the brand!

Lol, my last post was actually moderated. Hmm, maybe it was the word "punch." No, could've been the word "Kick." Though, I think it was the word "Tunnel," that comes close to crossing the line. Now I remember why this forum is so silly, it's not just the ridiculous content after all.

Anyway...

*returns to GiantBomb*