I have never seen a well-constructed argument as this one.
Well done and excellent point/quotation. Now people can *stop* saying that the PS3 is only for movies. -.-
Face it. Blu-Ray is NEEDED! ***edited with new dev comments***
This topic is locked from further discussion.
I swear, did any of you even read the quotes taken straight from the mouths of people like Mark Rein of epic games, the creator of your beloved Gears of War!?!makingmusic476
Obviously they didn't. :o
Pop Quiz!
...
...What percentage (%) PS3 games have used more than 7GBs?
(not including the extra languages and unusused, junk code)
When you have the answer, tell me why Blu-ray is necessary.
Dreams-Visions
So...no Cow takers on my challenge?
I thought not.
[QUOTE="Dante2710"]really now? you might eplaining me why uncharted, heavenly short and some other ps3 exclusives are so goddamn short....? please, having BR is a luxary......it isnt a requirement.....and just for the point of it....cgi movies take alot alot of memory....jhcho2
If Bluray is a luxury, then please tell me what constitutes a need for it? How do we know when a generation needs one particular type of disc? MGS4 takes up almost 50Gb. So technically, MGS4 NEEDS Bluray. But then again, how many games in the market must need Bluray in order for the Bluray format be classified as being really needed? 10? Why 10? 50? Why 50?.
What most of you fail to see is that many games like Gears of War fit in one disc because the developers aren't stupid. Which insane developer will start making a 20 Gb game being fully aware than they only have 9Gb at their disposal? Hence, it would make perfect sense if perhaps Epic made the game just long enough so that it fits in a DVD9. It's all about planning and management. You guys think it's a coincidence? If MS threw a HD-DVD drive as a standard format, Epic could have made their game better, based on what is available.
Claiming that games don't need Blu-ray because every game appears to fit in a DVD9 is the mootest point ever. It's more like developers abandon ambitiously high space consuming alternatives because it's something they don't have. Not something they don't need.
:lol: excuse me? do you know the difference between using compressed and uncompressed data? this is how they can fit so much data into 9gbs.......saying that blu-ray is needed is just drop down studid, as far as i know delevopers can manage without it.....and if this is so....i have yet to see a game that takes "advantage" of blu-ray...lats time i heard they have to copy and paste textures of the game...just to reduce the loading times...not only that, but also instal data onto ur harddrive......ohhh if im not mistaken....i heard some ps3 games had dummy files as well....having extra space is a good thing for developers....but saying that is requirement......its just sillySony pushed blu-ray because they love money. Not because they were thinking "Hey, we wanna have more -storage- for games". They own the entertainment field, and now they wanted everyone to buy Blu-ray movies and blu-ray players so they can make another cool multi-billion dollars. Makes me laugh when people think Sony are a nice people-person corp.
xsubtownerx
You think Microsoft is any better, any company is looking to make money, Micosoft is even worse than Sony they released low quality system and that gets the RROD, and add extra costs like wireless adapter, battery packs, XBL. I feel sorry for the developers making AAA games for a A console.
[QUOTE="Dreams-Visions"]Pop Quiz!
...
...What percentage (%) PS3 games have used more than 7GBs?
(not including the extra languages and unusused, junk code)
When you have the answer, tell me why Blu-ray is necessary.
Dreams-Visions
So...no Cow takers on my challenge?
I thought not.
How are we supposed to know how much space the game takes up does it say on the front, so far I have heard that MGS 4 takes up the whole 50GB!
[QUOTE="Dreams-Visions"][QUOTE="Dreams-Visions"]Pop Quiz!
...
...What percentage (%) PS3 games have used more than 7GBs?
(not including the extra languages and unusused, junk code)
When you have the answer, tell me why Blu-ray is necessary.
caligamer
So...no Cow takers on my challenge?
I thought not.
How are we supposed to know how much space the game takes up does it say on the front, so far I have heard that MGS 4 takes up the whole 50GB!
The information is out there...
Microsoft and Nintendo dont think its needed. And just look at the current standings. So do you think its still needed?jfkunrendered
Isn't SSBB on a DL DVD???
I mean if a game like that requires a DL DVD, would you honestly think games like GTA IV support your Idea of VD being sufficent??
Games like GT4 last gen was Like 7 Gb I think.
WHy would GT5 be able to fit a such a disc
People like you need to realize that Blu Ray is NOT needed. At this point, it's just nice to have. When the average game fills a DVD 9 and multiple disc games become a standard, then a higher capacity disc format will be necessary. In a few years when the aforementioned conditions are met, then Blu Ray will be necessary.
Bottom line, as long as games are still fitting on DVD 9's with space to spare, Blu Ray will not be necessary.
The_Game21x
Lost Odyssey says Hi!!
[QUOTE="The_Game21x"]People like you need to realize that Blu Ray is NOT needed. At this point, it's just nice to have. When the average game fills a DVD 9 and multiple disc games become a standard, then a higher capacity disc format will be necessary. In a few years when the aforementioned conditions are met, then Blu Ray will be necessary.
Bottom line, as long as games are still fitting on DVD 9's with space to spare, Blu Ray will not be necessary.
Zero5000X
Lost Odyssey says Hi!!
Lost Odyssey works just fine on the DVD-9 format.
[QUOTE="caligamer"][QUOTE="Dreams-Visions"][QUOTE="Dreams-Visions"]Pop Quiz!
...
...What percentage (%) PS3 games have used more than 7GBs?
(not including the extra languages and unusused, junk code)
When you have the answer, tell me why Blu-ray is necessary.
Dreams-Visions
So...no Cow takers on my challenge?
I thought not.
How are we supposed to know how much space the game takes up does it say on the front, so far I have heard that MGS 4 takes up the whole 50GB!
The information is out there...
So MGS4 struggles to fit on 50gb... whats your argument again?
[QUOTE="Zero5000X"][QUOTE="The_Game21x"]People like you need to realize that Blu Ray is NOT needed. At this point, it's just nice to have. When the average game fills a DVD 9 and multiple disc games become a standard, then a higher capacity disc format will be necessary. In a few years when the aforementioned conditions are met, then Blu Ray will be necessary.
Bottom line, as long as games are still fitting on DVD 9's with space to spare, Blu Ray will not be necessary.
Dreams-Visions
Lost Odyssey says Hi!!
Lost Odyssey works just fine on the DVD-9 format.
4 discs.
Yes, the future of humanity depends upon blu-ray.
[QUOTE="Dreams-Visions"][QUOTE="Zero5000X"][QUOTE="The_Game21x"]People like you need to realize that Blu Ray is NOT needed. At this point, it's just nice to have. When the average game fills a DVD 9 and multiple disc games become a standard, then a higher capacity disc format will be necessary. In a few years when the aforementioned conditions are met, then Blu Ray will be necessary.
Bottom line, as long as games are still fitting on DVD 9's with space to spare, Blu Ray will not be necessary.
Zero5000X
Lost Odyssey says Hi!!
Lost Odyssey works just fine on the DVD-9 format.
4 discs.
Because it, like Blue Dragon before it, is loaded with HD CGI cutscenes. If these weren't in there, I have no reason to believe they both wouldn't have fit on a DVD-9.
And I think you need to read my post again. I said when multi disc games become a standard then Blu-Ray will be necessary.
[QUOTE="Dreams-Visions"][QUOTE="caligamer"][QUOTE="Dreams-Visions"][QUOTE="Dreams-Visions"]Pop Quiz!
...
...What percentage (%) PS3 games have used more than 7GBs?
(not including the extra languages and unusused, junk code)
When you have the answer, tell me why Blu-ray is necessary.
Zero5000X
So...no Cow takers on my challenge?
I thought not.
How are we supposed to know how much space the game takes up does it say on the front, so far I have heard that MGS 4 takes up the whole 50GB!
The information is out there...
So MGS4 struggles to fit on 50gb... whats your argument again?
Okay, you've got one. Now find two.
[QUOTE="Zero5000X"][QUOTE="Dreams-Visions"][QUOTE="Zero5000X"][QUOTE="The_Game21x"]People like you need to realize that Blu Ray is NOT needed. At this point, it's just nice to have. When the average game fills a DVD 9 and multiple disc games become a standard, then a higher capacity disc format will be necessary. In a few years when the aforementioned conditions are met, then Blu Ray will be necessary.
Bottom line, as long as games are still fitting on DVD 9's with space to spare, Blu Ray will not be necessary.
The_Game21x
Lost Odyssey says Hi!!
Lost Odyssey works just fine on the DVD-9 format.
4 discs.
Because it, like Blue Dragon before it, is loaded with HD CGI cutscenes. If these weren't in there, I have no reason to believe they both wouldn't have fit on a DVD-9.
And I think you need to read my post again. I said when multi disc games become a standard then Blu-Ray will be necessary.
i don't think blu-ray is necessary as games play fine on DVD-9. Blu-ray is still better though.
[QUOTE="Dreams-Visions"]Pop Quiz!
...
...What percentage (%) PS3 games have used more than 7GBs?
(not including the extra languages and unusused, junk code)
When you have the answer, tell me why Blu-ray is necessary.
Dreams-Visions
So...no Cow takers on my challenge?
I thought not.
The answer would include games that were done pretty sloppy right?????
Come on guys games have been on DVD since last Gen.
We've seen consoles get like 10X more power than what they were last gen. I mean come on wouldn't the content on the disc get marginally bigger.
Or is it that DVD weren't needed last gen
[QUOTE="xsubtownerx"]Sony pushed blu-ray because they love money. Not because they were thinking "Hey, we wanna have more -storage- for games". They own the entertainment field, and now they wanted everyone to buy Blu-ray movies and blu-ray players so they can make another cool multi-billion dollars. Makes me laugh when people think Sony are a nice people-person corp.
donwoogie
When DVDs were released, people scoffed. Then, a year down the line, games were 4 CDs big and look who came crawling back!
Games went multi-CD before DVD came out (FF7 was 1997 and was 3 CDs IIRC).[QUOTE="Dreams-Visions"][QUOTE="caligamer"][QUOTE="Dreams-Visions"][QUOTE="Dreams-Visions"]Pop Quiz!
...
...What percentage (%) PS3 games have used more than 7GBs?
(not including the extra languages and unusused, junk code)
When you have the answer, tell me why Blu-ray is necessary.
Zero5000X
So...no Cow takers on my challenge?
I thought not.
How are we supposed to know how much space the game takes up does it say on the front, so far I have heard that MGS 4 takes up the whole 50GB!
The information is out there...
So MGS4 struggles to fit on 50gb... whats your argument again?
1 game out of 300 does not qualify the argument "blu-ray is needed". Nor does 2 games. Nor does 3. You can't make the sweeping accusation that something is "needed" when it is a feature that realistically only benefits 0.002% of the games that are on the market.
That's the equivalence of saying everyone needs to have a 700HP engine in their car....because Formula 1 cars do.
The needs of the extreme minority do not suggest a need for the overwhelming majority.
Get it?
[QUOTE="Dreams-Visions"][QUOTE="Dreams-Visions"]Pop Quiz!
...
...What percentage (%) PS3 games have used more than 7GBs?
(not including the extra languages and unusused, junk code)
When you have the answer, tell me why Blu-ray is necessary.
Blinblingthing
So...no Cow takers on my challenge?
I thought not.
The answer would include games that were done pretty sloppy right?????
Come on guys games have been on DVD since last Gen.
We've seen consoles get like 10X more power than what they were last gen. I mean come on wouldn't the content on the disc get marginally bigger.
Or is it that DVD weren't needed last gen
But how are you gonna fit everything without enough RAM?[QUOTE="Dreams-Visions"][QUOTE="Dreams-Visions"]Pop Quiz!
...
...What percentage (%) PS3 games have used more than 7GBs?
(not including the extra languages and unusused, junk code)
When you have the answer, tell me why Blu-ray is necessary.
Blinblingthing
So...no Cow takers on my challenge?
I thought not.
The answer would include games that were done pretty sloppy right?????
Come on guys games have been on DVD since last Gen.
We've seen consoles get like 10X more power than what they were last gen. I mean come on wouldn't the content on the disc get marginally bigger.
Or is it that DVD weren't needed last gen
bling, we are, by many measures, about 50% though this cosnsole generation (years). the 360 will be 3 at the end of this year. in a market that is new again every 5 years or so. maybe a little less for Sony. In that time, we've seen only 2 or 3 games that actually *could not fit* on DVD-9. Some like Resistance contained 16GBs of uncompressed sound and multiple languages. Unnecessary stuff. Junk code everywhere. Those things do not constitute "necessity". We've seen games like Warhawk--technical marvels...visual beauties--weighing in at 1GB.
To make the sweeping statement that "blu-ray is needed" has no basis in 2008. Maybe in 2010 we'll have a good number of games that need more space than DVD-9 can hold. But the reality is that 99% of games out or coming out in 2008 DO NOT NEED THAT SPACE.
that is my point. and quite frankly, it's a damn good one.
[QUOTE="Zero5000X"][QUOTE="Dreams-Visions"][QUOTE="Zero5000X"][QUOTE="The_Game21x"]People like you need to realize that Blu Ray is NOT needed. At this point, it's just nice to have. When the average game fills a DVD 9 and multiple disc games become a standard, then a higher capacity disc format will be necessary. In a few years when the aforementioned conditions are met, then Blu Ray will be necessary.
Bottom line, as long as games are still fitting on DVD 9's with space to spare, Blu Ray will not be necessary.
The_Game21x
Lost Odyssey says Hi!!
Lost Odyssey works just fine on the DVD-9 format.
4 discs.
Because it, like Blue Dragon before it, is loaded with HD CGI cutscenes. If these weren't in there, I have no reason to believe they both wouldn't have fit on a DVD-9.
And I think you need to read my post again. I said when multi disc games become a standard then Blu-Ray will be necessary.
Indeed. Mass Effect and Oblivion say hi to Blue Dragon, Lost Odyssey and FFIII.
[QUOTE="Zero5000X"][QUOTE="Dreams-Visions"][QUOTE="Zero5000X"][QUOTE="The_Game21x"]People like you need to realize that Blu Ray is NOT needed. At this point, it's just nice to have. When the average game fills a DVD 9 and multiple disc games become a standard, then a higher capacity disc format will be necessary. In a few years when the aforementioned conditions are met, then Blu Ray will be necessary.
Bottom line, as long as games are still fitting on DVD 9's with space to spare, Blu Ray will not be necessary.
The_Game21x
Lost Odyssey says Hi!!
Lost Odyssey works just fine on the DVD-9 format.
4 discs.
Because it, like Blue Dragon before it, is loaded with HD CGI cutscenes. If these weren't in there, I have no reason to believe they both wouldn't have fit on a DVD-9.
And I think you need to read my post again. I said when multi disc games become a standard then Blu-Ray will be necessary.
WHy should Dev be cutting such content from disc just to simply fit it on a disc????
You guys fail to realise with all these Cuts it shouldn't be hard to fit games on CDs, Cut Couple of levels, Voice Acting, CG, Cut scenes, Then Heavily compress the Data on the discs so it results in long load times decompressing the data.
Truth is some games probably won't need Blu-ray lets say Street Fight 4 or most other fighting games, But games like GT and others woth 30 hours of gameplay are definetly packing serious content which would warrant the extra space.
Yes, MARGINALLY bigger. Most games last gen could fit on a DVD 5. The only games that went on to multiple discs last gen were a few RPG's. The only games that have needed more than a disc this gen are a few RPG's. DVD is plenty for the vast majority of games this generation....it's better for the 99% of games that don't need the extra space to have the extra disc read speed this gen and multidisc the 1% than it would be to penalize the 99% with less disc speed simply to have that 1% be on a single disc.
The vast majority of games were WELL beyond 650 Megabytes at the start of last gen...the vast majority of games were well under 9 gig at the start of this gen...DVD was needed because games had already gone beyond what CD's could hold...Blu ray is NOT needed because the majority of games have not gone beyond what a DVD can hold. How people figure DVD being needed MUST mean that bluray is needed is beyond me...there isn't a correlation between the two.
WHy should Dev be cutting such content from disc just to simply fit it on a disc????
You guys fail to realise with all these Cuts it shouldn't be hard to fit games on CDs, Cut Couple of levels, Voice Acting, CG, Cut scenes, Then Heavily compress the Data on the discs so it results in long load times decompressing the data.
Truth is some games probably won't need Blu-ray lets say Street Fight 4 or most other fighting games, But games like GT and others woth 30 hours of gameplay are definetly packing serious content which would warrant the extra space.
Blinblingthing
1.) You make the mistake of associating game lenght with disc space. You've been here long enough. Shouldn't this generation have taught you better? (Mass Effect, Oblivion, Heavenly Sword, LAIR, Uncharted)???
2.) Obviously going from 7GB to 800MB is silly. Don't make a silly argument trying to prove your point that compressing things is a bad thing. Makes you look overly-dramatic.
3.) How many games are having to sacrifice levels and voice-acting? CG cutscenes? People are saying:
a.) Cutscenes don't need to be in HD and 40 minutes long. Make them in SD.
b.) Games don't *need* linear PCM sound in 7.1. That caters to an extreme minority of gamers who have such systems. The EXTREME minority. DD sound in Resistance would have saved damn near 15GBs. How many people would have missed 7.1 sound? What percentage? Therein lies the point.
Bottom line: 99% of games on the PS3 today and tomorrow will have been able to fit on DVD-9 without issue. Most games are sitting on 25GB Blu-ray discs and taking up less than 7GBs.
don't try to accuse Sony of being greedy, when the greediest/monopolistic corporation on the face of the planet is microsoftSony pushed blu-ray because they love money. Not because they were thinking "Hey, we wanna have more -storage- for games". They own the entertainment field, and now they wanted everyone to buy Blu-ray movies and blu-ray players so they can make another cool multi-billion dollars. Makes me laugh when people think Sony are a nice people-person corp.
xsubtownerx
[QUOTE="Blinblingthing"][QUOTE="Dreams-Visions"][QUOTE="Dreams-Visions"]Pop Quiz!
...
...What percentage (%) PS3 games have used more than 7GBs?
(not including the extra languages and unusused, junk code)
When you have the answer, tell me why Blu-ray is necessary.
Dreams-Visions
So...no Cow takers on my challenge?
I thought not.
The answer would include games that were done pretty sloppy right?????
Come on guys games have been on DVD since last Gen.
We've seen consoles get like 10X more power than what they were last gen. I mean come on wouldn't the content on the disc get marginally bigger.
Or is it that DVD weren't needed last gen
bling, we are, by many measures, about 50% though this cosnsole generation (years). the 360 will be 3 at the end of this year. in a market that is new again every 5 years or so. maybe a little less for Sony. In that time, we've seen only 2 or 3 games that actually *could not fit* on DVD-9. Some like Resistance contained 16GBs of uncompressed sound and multiple languages. Unnecessary stuff. Junk code everywhere. Those things do not constitute "necessity". We've seen games like Warhawk--technical marvels...visual beauties--weighing in at 1GB.
To make the sweeping statement that "blu-ray is needed" has no basis in 2008. Maybe in 2010 we'll have a good number of games that need more space than DVD-9 can hold. But the reality is that 99% of games out or coming out in 2008 DO NOT NEED THAT SPACE.
that is my point. and quite frankly, it's a damn good one.
Your right We don't need BD type of space
the same as you'd need DVD space compared to Cds
But I am simply stating that these PS2 games we're playing anymore, We're playing games with HD resolutions, Higher quality everything (Backgrounds, Characters, sounds, environments have you.) I am just saying I don't think Devs are going to tell you yes we included HD sound, environments, cut scenes and all those bunch of extra goodies all on a DVD.
Sure you don't need all that HD material, But hey I'd love to see them in there.
I mean lets put all this power in these consoles to some good
[QUOTE="xsubtownerx"]don't try to accuse Sony of being greedy, when the greediest/monopolistic corporation on the face of the planet is microsoftSony pushed blu-ray because they love money. Not because they were thinking "Hey, we wanna have more -storage- for games". They own the entertainment field, and now they wanted everyone to buy Blu-ray movies and blu-ray players so they can make another cool multi-billion dollars. Makes me laugh when people think Sony are a nice people-person corp.
C_BozkurT_C
Moral relativism will not win you any arguments here. You can't justify one person's wrong-doing by pointing another's. If you're wrong you're wrong.
[QUOTE="Dreams-Visions"][QUOTE="Blinblingthing"][QUOTE="Dreams-Visions"][QUOTE="Dreams-Visions"]Pop Quiz!
...
...What percentage (%) PS3 games have used more than 7GBs?
(not including the extra languages and unusused, junk code)
When you have the answer, tell me why Blu-ray is necessary.
Blinblingthing
So...no Cow takers on my challenge?
I thought not.
The answer would include games that were done pretty sloppy right?????
Come on guys games have been on DVD since last Gen.
We've seen consoles get like 10X more power than what they were last gen. I mean come on wouldn't the content on the disc get marginally bigger.
Or is it that DVD weren't needed last gen
bling, we are, by many measures, about 50% though this cosnsole generation (years). the 360 will be 3 at the end of this year. in a market that is new again every 5 years or so. maybe a little less for Sony. In that time, we've seen only 2 or 3 games that actually *could not fit* on DVD-9. Some like Resistance contained 16GBs of uncompressed sound and multiple languages. Unnecessary stuff. Junk code everywhere. Those things do not constitute "necessity". We've seen games like Warhawk--technical marvels...visual beauties--weighing in at 1GB.
To make the sweeping statement that "blu-ray is needed" has no basis in 2008. Maybe in 2010 we'll have a good number of games that need more space than DVD-9 can hold. But the reality is that 99% of games out or coming out in 2008 DO NOT NEED THAT SPACE.
that is my point. and quite frankly, it's a damn good one.
Your right We don't need BD type of space
the same as you'd need DVD space compared to Cds
But I am simply stating that these PS2 games we're playing anymore, We're playing games with HD resolutions, Higher quality everything (Backgrounds, Characters, sounds, environments have you.) I am just saying I don't think Devs are going to tell you yes we included HD sound, environments, cut scenes and all those bunch of extra goodies all on a DVD.
Sure you don't need all that HD material, But hey I'd love to see them in there.
I mean lets put all this power in these consoles to some good
Bling, I'm not saying I have a problem with Blu-ray. I appreciate it. I like watching my movies on it. But you can't compare the gaming necessity of DVDs vs. Blu-ray to CDs.
There are some things, suffice it to say, that don't compress that well. *most* 360 and PS3 games are between 3GB and 7GBs. And by "most" I mean probably more than 90%.
All of those 90%+ of games would suffer from being on CD. In the context of this conversation, we have succeffully named 1 or 2 games (though I could name 4 or 5 more) that would suffer from being on DVD. But that's 5 games out of hundreds. I don't think it's possible to make the same argument with CD.
But I'm done with this conversation. Have a good one.
[QUOTE="Blinblingthing"]WHy should Dev be cutting such content from disc just to simply fit it on a disc????
You guys fail to realise with all these Cuts it shouldn't be hard to fit games on CDs, Cut Couple of levels, Voice Acting, CG, Cut scenes, Then Heavily compress the Data on the discs so it results in long load times decompressing the data.
Truth is some games probably won't need Blu-ray lets say Street Fight 4 or most other fighting games, But games like GT and others woth 30 hours of gameplay are definetly packing serious content which would warrant the extra space.
Dreams-Visions
1.) You make the mistake of associating game lenght with disc space. You've been here long enough. Shouldn't this generation have taught you better? (Mass Effect, Oblivion, Heavenly Sword, LAIR, Uncharted)???
2.) Obviously going from 7GB to 800MB is silly. Don't make a silly argument trying to prove your point that compressing things is a bad thing. Makes you look overly-dramatic.
3.) How many games are having to sacrifice levels and voice-acting? CG cutscenes? People are saying:
a.) Cutscenes don't need to be in HD and 40 minutes long. Make them in SD.
b.) Games don't *need* linear PCM sound in 7.1. That caters to an extreme minority of gamers who have such systems. The EXTREME minority. DD sound in Resistance would have saved damn near 15GBs. How many people would have missed 7.1 sound? What percentage? Therein lies the point.
Bottom line: 99% of games on the PS3 today and tomorrow will have been able to fit on DVD-9 without issue. Most games are sitting on 25GB Blu-ray discs and taking up less than 7GBs.
I do Know that Game Length isn't directly associated with Game Size
Going from 7 Gb to 800Mb is silly but not impossible. My point is that there comes a point when a Dev can Cut no more. These alot of things a dev can add or not add. Its all about the game and the level of depth you want in it. Me personally, I'd expect Street Fight to be on a DVD. but If I am the dev on GT expect over 15 Gb of content. Smple because of the nature of the game. Beyond the typical lots of cars and tracks, Id be add lots car racing videos to the game disc. Sure you don't need those videos but you have to admit it does add to the whole immersive effect of the game.
So At the end of the day your right, Its not impossible to have games done on DVDs, I also strongly agree you can get them on there with some pretty immersive game play sequences and goodies. All I am saying is that adding even more to this already great experice is likely to result in that game being on a BD instead
[QUOTE="The_Game21x"]Because it, like Blue Dragon before it, is loaded with HD CGI cutscenes. If these weren't in there, I have no reason to believe they both wouldn't have fit on a DVD-9.
And I think you need to read my post again. I said when multi disc games become a standard then Blu-Ray will be necessary.
Blinblingthing
WHy should Dev be cutting such content from disc just to simply fit it on a disc????
You guys fail to realise with all these Cuts it shouldn't be hard to fit games on CDs, Cut Couple of levels, Voice Acting, CG, Cut scenes, Then Heavily compress the Data on the discs so it results in long load times decompressing the data.
Truth is some games probably won't need Blu-ray lets say Street Fight 4 or most other fighting games, But games like GT and others woth 30 hours of gameplay are definetly packing serious content which would warrant the extra space.
In this case, devs didn't have to cut content. They merely spread the content out over a couple of discs.
And these are just two games. To date, among the 100+ games available for the Xbox 360, these are the only ones that have required more than one disc. Again, seeing as the vast majority of games do not need more than one disc, I see little reason to believe Blu Ray is a necessity. Hell, I don't even believe GT5 couldn't fit on a DVD-9 unless it's actually true that GT4 was around 7 gigs (which I highly doubt).
With that last statement, it almost sounds like you're sayng there are no games on the Xbox 360 that are more than 30 hours long and are also on one disc.
Bling, I'm not saying I have a problem with Blu-ray. I appreciate it. I like watching my movies on it. But you can't compare the gaming necessity of DVDs vs. Blu-ray to CDs.
There are some things, suffice it to say, that don't compress that well. *most* 360 and PS3 games are between 3GB and 7GBs. And by "most" I mean probably more than 90%.
All of those 90%+ of games would suffer from being on CD. In the context of this conversation, we have succeffully named 1 or 2 games (though I could name 4 or 5 more) that would suffer from being on DVD. But that's 5 games out of hundreds. I don't think it's possible to make the same argument with CD.
But I'm done with this conversation. Have a good one.
Dreams-Visions
I only mentioned CDs just to let people it isn't impossible to have a game fit on CD with alot of corners being cut etc.
All I am saying while Blu-ray isn't mandatory for putting games on, You can't go and tell me there aren't any perk in doing so when you look at the added capabilities.
Think of a Kia or a BMW
Sure you don't NEED a BMW to get to work. But are you really going to tell me there are some added goodies in that BMW
[QUOTE="Dreams-Visions"]Bling, I'm not saying I have a problem with Blu-ray. I appreciate it. I like watching my movies on it. But you can't compare the gaming necessity of DVDs vs. Blu-ray to CDs.
There are some things, suffice it to say, that don't compress that well. *most* 360 and PS3 games are between 3GB and 7GBs. And by "most" I mean probably more than 90%.
All of those 90%+ of games would suffer from being on CD. In the context of this conversation, we have succeffully named 1 or 2 games (though I could name 4 or 5 more) that would suffer from being on DVD. But that's 5 games out of hundreds. I don't think it's possible to make the same argument with CD.
But I'm done with this conversation. Have a good one.
Blinblingthing
I only mentioned CDs just to let people it isn't impossible to have a game fit on CD with alot of corners being cut etc.
All I am saying while Blu-ray isn't mandatory for putting games on, You can't go and tell me there aren't any perk in doing so when you look at the added capabilities.
Think of a Kia or a BMW
Sure you don't NEED a BMW to get to work. But are you really going to tell me there are some added goodies in that BMW
The debate we are having is about BR being -needed-. It is not needed. Sure you can do more with it, but it isn't needed.
[QUOTE="Blinblingthing"][QUOTE="The_Game21x"]Because it, like Blue Dragon before it, is loaded with HD CGI cutscenes. If these weren't in there, I have no reason to believe they both wouldn't have fit on a DVD-9.
And I think you need to read my post again. I said when multi disc games become a standard then Blu-Ray will be necessary.
The_Game21x
WHy should Dev be cutting such content from disc just to simply fit it on a disc????
You guys fail to realise with all these Cuts it shouldn't be hard to fit games on CDs, Cut Couple of levels, Voice Acting, CG, Cut scenes, Then Heavily compress the Data on the discs so it results in long load times decompressing the data.
Truth is some games probably won't need Blu-ray lets say Street Fight 4 or most other fighting games, But games like GT and others woth 30 hours of gameplay are definetly packing serious content which would warrant the extra space.
In this case, devs didn't have to cut content. They merely spread the content out over a couple of discs.
And these are just two games. To date, among the 100+ games available for the Xbox 360, these are the only ones that have required more than one disc. Again, seeing as the vast majority of games do not need more than one disc, I see little reason to believe Blu Ray is a necessity. Hell, I don't even believe GT5 couldn't fit on a DVD-9 unless it's actually true that GT4 was around 7 gigs (which I highly doubt).
With that last statement, it almost sounds like you're sayng there are no games on the Xbox 360 that are more than 30 hours long and are also on one disc.
I once place GT 4 in My PC and I remember so size to that nature
heck isn't the size of GT 5 prolouge 5 gb when installed
blu-ray is superior to DVD. therefore blu-ray is better to have than DVD. end-o-thread.Zero5000X
Blu-Ray may very well be better than DVD.
But that isn't the argument.
[QUOTE="Zero5000X"]blu-ray is superior to DVD. therefore blu-ray is better to have than DVD. end-o-thread.The_Game21x
Blu-Ray may very well be better than DVD.
But that isn't the argument.
People keep moving the goal posts man. It's nice to have. But "needed"...that's a claim that curent game evidence does not support.
[QUOTE="The_Game21x"][QUOTE="Zero5000X"]blu-ray is superior to DVD. therefore blu-ray is better to have than DVD. end-o-thread.Dreams-Visions
Blu-Ray may very well be better than DVD.
But that isn't the argument.
People keep moving the goal posts man. It's nice to have. But "needed"...that's a claim that curent game evidence does not support.
Well MGS4 takes up a whole 50GB of data, so that's one game that needs Blu-ray.
next gen maybe
but for now we seem to be getting along fine with DVD9
bluray is not needed CURRENTLY
[QUOTE="Dreams-Visions"][QUOTE="Blinblingthing"]WHy should Dev be cutting such content from disc just to simply fit it on a disc????
You guys fail to realise with all these Cuts it shouldn't be hard to fit games on CDs, Cut Couple of levels, Voice Acting, CG, Cut scenes, Then Heavily compress the Data on the discs so it results in long load times decompressing the data.
Truth is some games probably won't need Blu-ray lets say Street Fight 4 or most other fighting games, But games like GT and others woth 30 hours of gameplay are definetly packing serious content which would warrant the extra space.
Blinblingthing
1.) You make the mistake of associating game lenght with disc space. You've been here long enough. Shouldn't this generation have taught you better? (Mass Effect, Oblivion, Heavenly Sword, LAIR, Uncharted)???
2.) Obviously going from 7GB to 800MB is silly. Don't make a silly argument trying to prove your point that compressing things is a bad thing. Makes you look overly-dramatic.
3.) How many games are having to sacrifice levels and voice-acting? CG cutscenes? People are saying:
a.) Cutscenes don't need to be in HD and 40 minutes long. Make them in SD.
b.) Games don't *need* linear PCM sound in 7.1. That caters to an extreme minority of gamers who have such systems. The EXTREME minority. DD sound in Resistance would have saved damn near 15GBs. How many people would have missed 7.1 sound? What percentage? Therein lies the point.
Bottom line: 99% of games on the PS3 today and tomorrow will have been able to fit on DVD-9 without issue. Most games are sitting on 25GB Blu-ray discs and taking up less than 7GBs.
Obviously Bluray is not needed right now since it just won the format war in the beginning of 2008 thats only 3months but it will be needed in 1-2 years when developers start making bigger games and learn how to use blu-ray better. 90% of the games can fit on DVD-9 because blu-ray just came out they didnt even have the option of putting it on blu-ray so give it a year and then talk.
[QUOTE="Dreams-Visions"][QUOTE="The_Game21x"][QUOTE="Zero5000X"]blu-ray is superior to DVD. therefore blu-ray is better to have than DVD. end-o-thread.dream431ca
Blu-Ray may very well be better than DVD.
But that isn't the argument.
People keep moving the goal posts man. It's nice to have. But "needed"...that's a claim that curent game evidence does not support.
Well MGS4 takes up a whole 50GB of data, so that's one game that needs Blu-ray.
Actually the devs were lazy and that's why it takes up that much. But I'll wait for the game to come out before I say anything bad. If the game is only 15-20 hours long, that 50gig will not be justified.
[QUOTE="dream431ca"][QUOTE="Dreams-Visions"][QUOTE="The_Game21x"][QUOTE="Zero5000X"]blu-ray is superior to DVD. therefore blu-ray is better to have than DVD. end-o-thread.xsubtownerx
Blu-Ray may very well be better than DVD.
But that isn't the argument.
People keep moving the goal posts man. It's nice to have. But "needed"...that's a claim that curent game evidence does not support.
Well MGS4 takes up a whole 50GB of data, so that's one game that needs Blu-ray.
Actually the devs were lazy and that's why it takes up that much. But I'll wait for the game to come out before I say anything bad. If the game is only 15-20 hours long, that 50gig will not be justified.
Lazy? So a developer makes a game that takes up 50Gigs and you call them lazy? :| If you have a decent surround sound system, you will get all the justification you'll need.
[QUOTE="xsubtownerx"][QUOTE="dream431ca"][QUOTE="Dreams-Visions"][QUOTE="The_Game21x"][QUOTE="Zero5000X"]blu-ray is superior to DVD. therefore blu-ray is better to have than DVD. end-o-thread.dream431ca
Blu-Ray may very well be better than DVD.
But that isn't the argument.
People keep moving the goal posts man. It's nice to have. But "needed"...that's a claim that curent game evidence does not support.
Well MGS4 takes up a whole 50GB of data, so that's one game that needs Blu-ray.
Actually the devs were lazy and that's why it takes up that much. But I'll wait for the game to come out before I say anything bad. If the game is only 15-20 hours long, that 50gig will not be justified.
Lazy? So a developer makes a game that takes up 50Gigs and you call them lazy? :| If you have a decent surround sound system, you will get all the justification you'll need.
Nothing is compressed. Due to the fact that they didn't want to force an install. Surround sound to justify a 50 gig game? Wow. You can keep it.
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