Similarly, I'm not sure how the Xbone can do DX12 meaningfully either considering it already runs hotter than the PS4 despite its size and increasing the fan speed destroys the design philosophy of making it a silent media box.
Thats a fair point. It was shocking how big the system was when it debuted. Also the fan is quite a big larger than needed. So either it is as you say and they wanted a silent media box or the system engineers knew they had to have a cooling option in place for directx 12.
Either way we will find out shortly. What is bugging me is that the architecture is very strange. I don't believe thats a result of bad engineering.
The XB1 is big for a reason. The power brick is pretty much overkill for what's in the system. The PS4 obviously runs hotter, it has more powerful tech in it and it's a lot smaller. This is why many gamers and PC tech guys were concerned it would eventually overheat. Also, the specs in the XB1 isn't even suppose to be able to run DX12. Which obviously means, there's something else in the XB1 that will allow DX12 to run on it. Microsoft is obviously aware that there is more power in the XB1 then meets the eye. That's why the fan is the largest in any game console to date. The PS4 fan is almost 1/2 the size. E3 is going to be pretty funny. I hope Sony goes first this time around. Microsoft should makes sure they go last this E3.
Damn, blackace gone misterx on us lol. Wouldn't be a system wars topic without the faux-insider dropping those truth bombs, and the classic E3 statement, perfection. This has been a blackace appreciation post.
What's going to happen if MS goes first and Sony goes last? Worried MS will be massively upstaged by Sony?
Halo 2 rehash, new COD, annualised Forza and Fortaleza will totally steal E3 for MS though.
Nope it is just your ignorance and stupidity. The way Microsoft envisions Xbox One cloud computing is for lag-insensitive processor intensive computing such as preloading lighting effects and terrains. GPU does not factor into the solution. I guess that you have never seen a virtual computing host or know anything about it. I don't know the details of the virtual host that Microsoft is using but it should probably be something like a 256+ core machines with 256+ GB of memory. One virtual host can run several virtual machines simultaneously.
Again, the vision of Microsoft is not to steam graphics from the datacenter to the console. It is again only for lag-insensitive processor intensive stuffs. The idea is to offload those tasks to servers to free up local resources for other stuffs. Go watch the Build 2014 presentation to broaden your horizons.
P.S., it is PlayStation Now that plans to stream entire games (graphics and everything) from server(s) to console. Somehow they think that it is going to work, lag and all.
No it is yours.
Pre-loading lighting = baked lighting so yeah that pretty much confirms my point you can't do intensive,just like AI which isn't something that need to be constantly updated.
You claimed those servers are cheap and they are not so yeah you know sh** about servers been use for compute they aren't the same servers you use to host online gaming,as those don't require those kind of GPU.
Lag intensive stuff over a lag intensive connection. lol
Dude what the xbox one will free in resources from using the cloud is little,they can't offload anything intensive from the GPU side,just CPU ones like AI or baked lighting which don't take much resources on consoles either way as baked lighting doesn't require lots of power.
What PS now will do and what MS claimed it wanted to do are 2 different things,PS Now runs the game on the server and stream you a video of it to your console,much like Onlive and Gakay worked, that can be done because streaming videos doesn't require 50MB connection even a 5MB connection is enough to stream hulu,netflix and all that crap,the problems is latency with the input controls,games require responses instantly,so lag can ruin any game you try to play,is on console some times and some game have horrible input lag.
What MS was hyping with the cloud was making the xbox one stronger by streaming assets over the internet,and that can't be done,GPU require high bandwidth,GPU are latency tolerant but need high bandwidth,something internet connection lag,even a 100MB line is nothing compare even to the original xbox bandwidth which is a 2001 console,those bandwidth work on GB not MB.
Picture this download a 1GB file and measure how much it took.
Let say it took 20 Minutes,now take those 20 minutes and multiply them by 176 that give you 3520 minutes now divide them by 60 that = 58.6 hours
That connection would take to stream 176GB almost 2 days and a half,when on the PS4 it will take just 1 second to pass 176Gb/s.
So what the PS4 can process in 1 second it will take and online connection of like 10 MB more than 2 days,this is the reason why MS claims were downplay as bogus what they claim was very specific they claim in creasing the xbox one power from 10 times the power of the 360 to 40 times more powerful than a 360,or 4 times as powerful as an xbox one alone.
And it was pure bullsh**..
@ronvalencia said:
It's relatively minor difference since both boxes are in 1.x TFLOPS range i.e. ~1.31 TFLOPS vs 1.84 TFLOPS.
For reference, my R9-290X runs at 5.857 TFLOPS. I could CF my R9-290 and R9-290X for +10 TFLOPS (5376 stream processors) monster i.e. near R9-295X X2 monster.
From http://wccftech.com/amd-pirate-islands-r9-300-series-bermuda-fiji-treasure-islands-xtx/ rumoured next-gen R9-390X with 4224 stream processors i.e. yields 66 CU from 64 processor array per CU. 1Ghz at 66 CU yields about 8.4 TFLOPS. The pattern is similar since 7990 > R9-290X i.e. R9-295 X2 > R9-390X. AMD's new single GPU flagship is usually behind the last-gen dual GPU single board super-dreadnought and above last-gen single GPU flagship.
Minor my ass 1080p vs 720p 30 FPS vs 60..
Tomb Raider show a difference as big as the one the 7770 has vs the 7950..
Look at the difference between the 7770 and the 7950...30 FPS the PS4 at times commands a lead that big confirmed by Digital foundry benchmarks.
Loading Video...
Many instances the PS4 command a solid 30 FPS which is 7950 vs 7770 gap hell i dare say even more,because the 7770 and 7950 difference in frames is based on both having the exact same quality in all parts including effects and cut scenes.
For the most part the main graphical bells and whistles are lavished equally across both consoles, although intriguingly there are a few areas that do see Xbox One cutbacks. As demonstrated in our head-to-head video below (and in our vast Tomb Raider comparison gallery), alpha-based effects in certain areas give the appearance of rendering at half resolution - though other examples do look much cleaner. We also see a lower-quality depth of field in cut-scenes, and reduced levels of anisotropic filtering on artwork during gameplay. Curiously, there are also a few lower-resolution textures in places on Xbox One
The xbox one version is does not have the exact same quality either and cut scenes are 900p.
And still the PS4 deliver a gap that go as high as 30 FPS while having better assets to.? And you say it is small.?
Come on man bag your personal GPU on your PC,i don't care if you have a 20 TF machine the xbox one vs the PS4 does show a big gap,and before you go your way out to quote Rebellion,when they deliver the final game then talk,because Activision did the same and claimed in June 2013 that Ghost was 1080p on both platforms.
Those of you saying DX12 will go to ALL cards (including PS4's GPU) are VERY misinformed or new to the industry. DX12 will go to ALL *Windows* based cards as Windows in some form is required for DX12. So no, SONY will not ever get DX12 and neither will Linux, Android or Mac or any other platform not Windows based -at least without some form of emulation (which would create horrible performance for high end gaming).
Also historically DX releases make a huge difference in performance and visuals.
Will it make the games run twice as fast? Hard to say. Is it possible? Most definitely. Even SONY has said this -then laughing saying that it would cause overheating issues if it did. Well -what if it didn't overheat since The X1 does have an undisputed more significant cooling solution than the PS4? (Hence the larger case and massive H/S Fan combo under the hood as evidenced in any tear down video).
Let's not forget that the "DX12 doubling GPU Power" statement did not come from MS -but from Stardock -who is developing games for BOTH consoles.
People continue making silly arguments with obviously VERY little experience. History shows that everything MS is saying is "POSSIBLE" -as AMD, Intel and Nvidia have all made statements to back up the power of DX12 -which according to AMD blows Mantle out of the water, though they said they will continue to develop Mantle.
Remember AMD (developer of both consoles APU's), is the one that said DX12 is like going 4 generations ahead, again this statement was not from MS.
The PS4 DOES have a stronger GPU based on raw CompUnits. Based on old programming models there is no question it would continue to outperform the X1. However if, AND it is a BIG "IF" -MS can actually deliver offloading say half the work from the GPU, then yes in theory while the GPU is not superior to that in the PS4, it would still theoretically perform on par or even possibly better, unless SONY figured out how to do the same thing through their own API's.
In closing...
It is a huge deal that Phil Spencer is the new boss. The X1 development truly starts...
Now.
First of and for the 100 time the PS4 doesn't need sh** ass DX12,DX12 is a late response from MS to AMD Mantle API,is not here and will not be here until late 2015 that late MS is,Mantle has been here since 2012 and shipped with BF4,the PS4 uses an APi call LibGNM that API basically work like Mantle and has been on PS4 since before launch so yeah by the time DX12 fully hit the xbox one the PS4 would have like 2+ years with LibGNM.
Now every feature DX12 get to work on the xbox one will also work on PS4 because it is the same hardware,just like DX11 didn't support Partially Resident Textures on 2011 when only OpenGL did and letter on MS add it to DX,so will any DX feature not on OpenGL or other APi's.
Not is not and the xbox one version is already running some of DX12 features and 2 more are on the way,so yeah don't expect much from DX but a few frames more.,
That has nothing to do with power,the PS4 has an internal PSU the xbox one doesn't have one yet when the xbox one is playing games it gets hotter with a weaker ass GPU than the PS4 does,you know why the xbox one is so big.? Is because MS doesn't wanted an RROD 2,so the console is bigger with better cooling,but even so while playing games it gets hotter why you ask.?
Because MS packed on the damn APU crop that was unnecessary like a damn AUdio block,when AMD support true audio which take no resources from the GCN graphics,and ESRAM which was blame for the heat increase on the APU,ESRAM produce heat like anything else inside that APU,the PS4 has a GPU and CPU the xbox one has an Audio block+ CPU + GPU + ESRAM which is why it gets hotter while playing even with a weaker hardware and bigger fan.
Yeah and that part about AMD saying that is pure bullsh** and anything with even the smallest knowledge on GPU knows it AMD has contracts with MS dude yeah they will claim many sh**,the say the PS4 has the strongest APU ever build so take it like you like,but the PS4 one can't be the strongest if the xbox one APU alone get 4 hardware generations ahead by API.
Only a true moron will believe that hardware will jump 4 generations because of a damn APi,and while MS try to damage control the xbox one image of weak sauce,more and more games continue to be superior on PS4.
That last bold part is one of the saddest crap i have ever read.
First on old coding or new coding PS4 >>>> xbox one.
With what the hell MS will offload half the GPU power to make the GPU work better.? The xbox one doesn't have a Cell like CPU that can offload things from the GPU,cloud computing can offload baked lighting and AI and simple stuff that don't need refresh very often,but anything GPU related no dude those are another 2 cents GPU task require extreme bandwidth something internet connection lack,the jaguar CPU on the xbox one can't offload anything from the GPU,but physics which would hurt the GPU that much as a fraction of the GPU will do them better than most CPU.
@Shewgenja said:
Hey doofus, what's the difference between a Windows card and any other card on God's green earth? Last I checked, you have to wait around for some codemonkey in an MS lab to certify and redistribute tools while OpenGL and every other API on the planet upgrades constantly. That, and good luck pulling off DirectX Jedi magic with fewer CUs and RoPS.
The only thing beginning is wiping the floor with you superstitious twits. You could have had tiled resources months ago if your precious XBot labs weren't so busy reprogramming the XBone from being a wallet-raping DRM beast.
Fatality .... Flawless victory....
@blackace said:
No, I usually don't read much of anything you or Tormentos writes, cause most of it is just garbage. The XB1 has a power brick on the outside (the PS4 has it on the inside of their system) and a larger fan because M$ knows the system will run even hotter then what it's doing right now. There is no 2nd GPU in the XB1. There is definitely something else that M$ isn't telling anyone.
Aren't you the one claiming that 720p is about over and that by 2015 900p will be as well.?
And now rumors of the Witcher 3 been 720p came in.? Witcher 3 is 2015 game.....lol
So 720p in 2015.?
hahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaa...
No the xbox one has a power brick because MS know the xbox one runs hot now..
xbox one runs about 49 degrees while gaming and draws 125 watts.
The PS4 runs about 44 degrees while gaming and while drawing 6 more watts than the xbox one at 131 watts.
So the PS4 draws more watts,while having an internal PSU which produce more heat internally and still runs colder while gaming,so yeah the xbox one is big with a huge fan because it produces more heat even while drawing less watts,while having 10% reservation,which was inactive while gaming,so we can only wonder if the xbox one is actually getting hotter now when games that use the extra 8% release.
You are a buffoon a clear and cut biased MS fanboy,if MS had an y advantage over the PS4 it would have expose it since day 1 since day freaking 1,MS isn't a company who hold up on advantage,this is the same company that for 8 years gloated about 360 sales in US,the same company who bragged about COD extra maps 1 or 2 months of advantage.
Don't freaking tell me that MS has some kind of and that they are holding it out just for laughs,come on man do you how stupid and out of this freaking world moronic that sound.?
If MS had a dual GPU you would know it,if MS had a dual APU you would know it,if MS had something anything you will know it.
There is nothing period nothing they are even behind APi wise vs PC and the PS4,and they want to make seen like DX12 will make PC go from 1.2Tf to 4.8 TF,it is a joke,just like the cloud was a joke,MS admit long ago that they didn't target powerful hardware,there have been some very clear indications that is weak period.
You can believe want it is your who will look silly in the end when the so call secret sauces fail to materialize,MS is one of the most dishonest companies around and to sell you an xbox one they will claim any sh**,cloud,DX...
If the xbox one was so powerful it would not have drop the 10% reservation or over close the GPU and CPU..
Ignore the PS4 dev, seems like a pointless comment. More quotes at the source.
PS4 ICE Team programmer Cort Stratton added that, “New SDKs can significantly improve performance on the same hardware, yes. Dunno about DX12/X1 specifically, of course; not my dept.
He also said that people have a right to be skeptical about performance gains. “Good; always be suspicious of ANY perf. improvement claims. e.g. what *exactly* got 50-100% faster? Faster than what? Details!”
Treyarch software engineer Dan Olson had a less amused take. “Here’s an article… no idea why people go on record for stuff like this.”
Programmer Dean Ashton found it downright hilarious. Either that or life-threatening judging by his response. “2x perf on Xbox One when using DX12? That article nearly made me choke on my cup of tea.”
Read more at http://gamingbolt.com/devs-react-to-...AoDlY3FJqQ5.99
Seems it's not just the fanboys that are skeptical. Discuss.
Why do you keep refereeing to me as some other poster? Also I've noticed that you are all over this forum acting as if your some den mother or something like your the leader of the recess hour on the playground or something?. From what I can tell your a hardcore PS fanboy and clearly have way to much time on your hands and no life as much as you seem to try to control this forum to your liking. Get a life bro have you ever even had a girlfriend?
he was a troll and typed similar. He got banned from posting by making so many bad troll threads and shit posting constantly. You can find more of his work on the IGN Xbox lobby...well it's not like you have to go over there, he's probably you. But I don't much care for it.
lol I must have really rustled your jimmies quite badly. None of the bold that I expect was meant to hurt me emotionally even registered. Your own assumptions are your own undoing. I consider this a passive meltdown in a weird attempt to get under my skin by typing out any sorts of garbage from those fingers of yours. Don't waste your time buddy, it won't work. We're but names on a forum board that's a deep as it gets. Also you are the perfect example that I've brought up many times with other users, that lems love to get personal with the account member instead of tackling the issues head on. What do you expect to achieve? Controlling the forum? Erm, what? Mods do that, kid. LOL the girlfriend comment, confirmed for pre-teen.
If you can't take system wars you should just delete your account. Sound advice from the Den Mother lol
You see I'm already on to you though and not sure if the mods are yet or if they care. But you think your slick but your not. I see in basically all of your thread titles you make it seem that your looking for an objective opinion And you do that because your trying to fly under the mod radar of being banned. You are clearly trying to be crafty and make it seem you're not deliberately starting troll threads by trying to word your threat titles in a way that just barley indicates it's a troll thread but also just barley makes it seem like your being innocent. The reality is you do it this way so you can try and start long over blown page after page troll thread but make it appear in your thread title like what I didn't do this deliberately but you clearly are.
You know exactly what I'm saying I'm on to you that quick. And that fact that you even post things about wanting to get others band is an exact example of the tool kid on the playground trying to control the lot to his liking. Usually it's a kid that does this and hangs with kids a few years younger so they can control the other kids and make the others think he is special or something,. This is exactly you. You never get laid that's for sure LOL
Stopped reading right there. You aren't. Give up, you're fighting an uphill battle that you're not going to win lol. Sorry dude, you don't know anything.
It's all true and you know it and I bet most on here realize this also your a total tool and we all know it get a life looser. By the way I honestly could care less what others do or post on forums but I'm just calling you out for exactly what you are and you know it.
Stopped reading right there too. You can type out as much as you want pal it won't make any of the garbage you type true. Enjoy convincing yourself that ;).
What's even sadder is throughout this thread you have posted STOPPED READING RIGHT THERE your such a tool dude everyone on here see's it your a lonely looser who got beat up in school and played with kids younger then you so you could play I'm special guy look at me and you can control the lot the same behavior you exhibit on here your a pathetic tool and we all see this and I've pointed you out plain as day
Why is that sad? Just because I don't want to read your moronic assumptions of a random guy on the internet. I'm sure people are actually laughing at this back and forth at the expense of yourself.
What is sad is that you think you're actually making a difference here by making up a fake persona for me just so you can type out gibberish to feel better about yourself. Must be tough for you.
Hey everyone listen this MISTERPMEDIA guy is a COMPLETE TOOL. Look how he says right here that he does not care about some randon guy on the internet refereeing to me yet he has said in separate threads that I should be banned so wait he does not care or does he? You see he is exactly what I'm saying he is the older kid in recess trying to play with the younger kids so he can try and control them and twist everything to his liking. Dude is a compete tool he start threads and tries to be slick knowing his entire goal is to start and explode a fanboy war why he sits back and watches but he thinks he is slick by trying to make the thread title somewhat not that trollish because he's knows he is only doing this to try and not get the ban hammer like wha wha me no I'm not starting troll threads but the reality is it's exactly what his intentions are. He also tries to make recommendations and gets other banned.
Yes this is coming from the guy who claims in his last statement that he does not care about a random poster in me yet he has gone out of his way in a few different threads telling mods to ban people and again all his threads are cheaply disguised troll threads but tries to pretend that he is just making an innocent thread but the reality is he is a hardcore Sony fanboy looking to do nothing else but create page after page of troll wars.
This is MISTERPMEDIA to a T
Also for anyone in this thread that has any once of sense in regards to DX12 yes the X1 has a huge heat sink and huge fan it's obvious MS engineered the box to be able to crank up more heat if needed and DX12 is again said to be a HUGE performance boost by a developer currently working with the API and both AMD and Intel have said it's a huge leap in performance along with NVIDA saying this also. And NO DX12 IS NOT COMING TO PS4. PS4 is a Open GL system and is not windows based.
dude you honestly have too much time on your hands. I stopped reading what you typed when you went overly personal with childish rants about your own life. Typing out huge essays is a huge waste of time. Sound advice there from Den Mother.
Dude your just further confirming exactly what I'm telling everyone you are. You keep saying you stop reading? You see this is also what I've been saying you don't even have the respect or care to read others comments although I know you do read it you just try to claim you don't to make yourself appear your not pressed but again your whole reason for making threads is to start flame wars and then sit back and watch but you try to do it under the radar so you don't get modded so you have somewhat deceptive thread titles but your whole MO is to make other factions argue and you sit back and watch. You aint fooling anyone chump.
stopped reading there. Who do you think you're talking to? Who is this 'everyone' ? Everyone is laughing at you lol
How is DX12 a late response? MS has been releasing DX technology every 3-4 years for a longtime now. DX12 was all planned for X1.
How is very simple you don't make API in 2 days it takes time,Lets say Mantle was make for 1 year and half,and release on 2012 to developers,in 2013 the APi release with a game.
On PS4 its API was again done on 1 year probably since it doesn't have to support any legacy or any worries about models,it hit on 2012 developers hands and games coded with it release on 2013.
DX 12 lest say it take 2 years to make,it isn't complete yet and it will arrive in 2015...
So who is on time and who is late.? LibGNM and Mantle are ready and been use on games since then 2012,and MS is the one late with their API,just like on 2011 MS was also late with Partially Resident Textures as well and only Opengl support them on GCN.
Either way DX12 = Mantle = LibGNM MS has nothing on Sony or PC they are just late,meanwhile xbox one games keep trailing behind the PS4 ones.
I think the big deal with having a dedicated server is that you wouldn’t even try to make this game using a standard peer-to-peer model, at least on console.
The server performance requirements for Titanfall are pretty high, so you can’t run peer-to-peer. This also means you can’t have a many virtual machines per physical server, meaning if you’ve got a popular game, then you’re going to need a pretty big investment in server hardware.
So, this is kinda hard to explain in a ‘the power of the cloud’ soundbite, but using Thunderhead actually makes a lot of sense as it allows pooled resources to spin up and down for a given title rather than having to figure out some way to get some ungodly amount of servers for a day one launch player spike. I think you’ll see more interesting multiplayer games because of this but it’ll take a while.
First of and for the 100 time the PS4 doesn't need sh** ass DX12,DX12 is a late response from MS to AMD Mantle API,is not here and will not be here until late 2015 that late MS is,Mantle has been here since 2012 and shipped with BF4,the PS4 uses an APi call LibGNM that API basically work like Mantle and has been on PS4 since before launch so yeah by the time DX12 fully hit the xbox one the PS4 would have like 2+ years with LibGNM.
This is getting really sad... Even when top functioning employees from nvidia and amd say that DX12 is amazing you still call it shit ass. As if AMD would talk about DX12 like this if it was just like Mantle and not better. You must be really stuck in your own world... This is also the reason why nobody should listen to you, even if you make sense. Because you think you know better than AMD and Nvidia.
Top working employees from Nvidia and AMD want you to buy their GPU,intel the same.
So yeah it is in their best interest to promote it,hell AMD is promoting it and they have Mantle,because the simple notion alone that it would not work on AMD GPU would mean bad sales.
DX is the standard in the PC market regardless of Mantle performing better now.
AMD made some bad comments about DX in 2011 and latter took then back,so yeah the relationship between both companies was one like Apple an Samsung where Samsung use to make components for iphone,yet it was its biggest competitor..lol
Time move fast soon enough you will see how much of MS PR was true and and wasn't,but games like Witcher 3 are already been say to be 720p and that game is a 2015 game,there is no excuse of late drivers or weak devkits on 2015 games.
First of and for the 100 time the PS4 doesn't need sh** ass DX12,DX12 is a late response from MS to AMD Mantle API,is not here and will not be here until late 2015 that late MS is,Mantle has been here since 2012 and shipped with BF4,the PS4 uses an APi call LibGNM that API basically work like Mantle and has been on PS4 since before launch so yeah by the time DX12 fully hit the xbox one the PS4 would have like 2+ years with LibGNM.
This is getting really sad... Even when top functioning employees from nvidia and amd say that DX12 is amazing you still call it shit ass. As if AMD would talk about DX12 like this if it was just like Mantle and not better. You must be really stuck in your own world... This is also the reason why nobody should listen to you, even if you make sense. Because you think you know better than AMD and Nvidia.
Your wasting your time, he has to be right no matter what's in front of him.
Using a rumour on game resolution which isn't out for a whole year is a prime example. Even if it was true, developers will be looking to improve the whole game including resolution and fps between now and launch.
I think the big deal with having a dedicated server is that you wouldn’t even try to make this game using a standard peer-to-peer model, at least on console.
The server performance requirements for Titanfall are pretty high, so you can’t run peer-to-peer. This also means you can’t have a many virtual machines per physical server, meaning if you’ve got a popular game, then you’re going to need a pretty big investment in server hardware.
So, this is kinda hard to explain in a ‘the power of the cloud’ soundbite, but using Thunderhead actually makes a lot of sense as it allows pooled resources to spin up and down for a given title rather than having to figure out some way to get some ungodly amount of servers for a day one launch player spike. I think you’ll see more interesting multiplayer games because of this but it’ll take a while.
And.? he basically is talking about how dedicated server for gamplay is better,that say sh** dedicated servers have been part of gaming for years,and yes they are better than P2P welcome to 2000...
He say nothing there about the cloud increasing the power of the 10 times or any sh** like that,which is what MS claimed..haha
Loading Video...
This wasn't possible on P2P either and is from 2007..lol
@FastRobby said:
When Microsoft already told people it will work with GPU's that exist now? So the first sentence has been debunked, let's see what's next.
Mantle performs better than DX11, don't know what that has to do with DX12... DX11 is like 4 years old...
AMD said there wouldn't be a DX12, but they have a very good relationship, nothing like Samsung-Apple at all...
Now you're quoting rumors, while the developers of Witcher 3 already said they weren't true... That's a very silly thing to do, one might call it dumb.
MS say it work with GPU out now but not with all GPU out now...
You have debunked sh** DX work on GCN which is the xbox one and PS4 GPU but AMD has say sh** about the 6000,5000,or 4,000 series of cards.
Sure it performs better than DX11,and while DX11 is 4 years old not all is 4 years old and the APi get updates,reason why there was a DX11.1,DX 11.2 .
Because you fanboys have weak memory,DX11.2 was for Windows 8 and xbox one only,remember how it was suppose to bring Tile resources as the next big thing that would help the xbox one beat the PS4.?
So after months of empty claims about how DX11.2 was going to introduce the killer tile resources feature,all of the sudden that crap was abandon not only by MS but also by its fans and now the new thing is DX12..lol
Multiple sessions at the upcoming GDC (Game Developers Conference) are teasing the existence of a new, low-level series of APIs coming to both Direct3D and OpenGL. Nvidia has already given several talks on reducing driver overhead in OpenGL (a substantial example of one such presentation is available online), but the input from Microsoft is new.
In fact, as some of you may recall, an AMD executive publicly stated a year ago that there was no “DirectX 12″ on the Microsoft roadmap. Microsoft responded to those comments by affirming that it remained committed to evolving the DirectX standard — and then said nothing more on the topic. Then AMD launched Mantle, with significant support from multiple developers and a bevy of games launching this year — and apparently someone at Microsoft decided to pay attention.
Note: Microsoft has not confirmed “DirectX 12″ as an actual brand name for the next-generation of DX technology. It’s used here as the most logical version number.
The GDC webpage for one of the DirectX talks states ” You asked us to bring you even closer to the metal and to do so on an unparalleled assortment of hardware. You also asked us for better tools so that you can squeeze every last drop of performance out of your PC, tablet, phone and console. Come learn our plans to deliver.”
We’ve spoken to several sources with additional information on the topic who have told us that Microsoft’s interest in developing a new API is a recent phenomenon, and that the new DirectX (likely DirectX 12) will substantially duplicate the capabilities of AMD’s Mantle.
"It's funny," Huddy told bit-tech. "We often have at least ten times as much horsepower as an Xbox 360 or a PS3 in a high-end graphics card, yet it's very clear that the games don't look ten times as good. To a significant extent, that's because, one way or another, for good reasons and bad - mostly good, DirectX is getting in the way.' Huddy says that one of the most common requests he gets from game developers is to "make the API go away."
They need there is hardware in there. Infact i found more and more evidence of it. Now let i remind with my prev slide about no way DX12
gives a boost > 100%. What it do is superoptimized the cpu+gpu+scheduler mechanism, by improving how to submit a command to GPU. They submitting command using bundles (which on GDC they stated,X1 already using bundles since day 1, but not activated PSO).
Bundles can be seen as a list of command just like i stated move SIMT or SIMD into MIMD/SPMD. Plus definiely there is something different on X1 GPU. I will showed later.
Part 2. The CP, ACE, Shader engine, R9 290x as an example
Let said the 2 Compute CP is responsible for at least 3 key component:
a.- Group of CU that certainly will have performance ~ 2.6TF DP (48CU)
b.- Group of CPU + accelerator that will have performance ~ 1.3TF DP (8 core + 6 Small arm core probably to add Floating performance
c.- Block of eSRAM to help process lcoal data as fast as possible, locality is the key, moving data is higher cost than compute
a+B+C will be based on Tile basec architectuer, and NOC concept a supercomputer based design, it is local cloud, cloud powered.
Cloud is data centre term, also the concept about connecting each processing element using QOS and NOC concept.
I already posted why it is called Local cloud
Lets take a look back
why it is called local cloud / NOC design
=========================================
From People That related to Xbox development. Plus from D.Burger that influenced AMD/Nvidia into tiled based design like Echelon & AMD Pirate Island (Volcanic Tiles).
The Gfx Part will be still Sea island based will not the most advanced part of this.
Step 4. The Top SOC view, there is no circuit lines visible on X1
1. if DX12 moving into bundles concept there is infact oppurtunity to make ALUs more compact reduce internal register , etc
2. AMD stated that they can pack more, by doing HDL (high density library)but this means MS must also customized the layout.
Now the SIMD/ALUs comparison notice how X1 Tiles is more smaller count the tiles and surprise !!!
**) The tiles represent part of the ALU, as each alus will like very small cpu, they need register/L1/L0, thats why we can count/approximate the ALU by count the tiles. By reducing the SRAM/L1/L0 size + more efficient layout logically we can pack more.
xone_br33: it´s clear in that figure from chipworks that you posted earlier. i wonder how this web sites didn´t even speculated about the differences in both architectures, the radeon cores are totally different betwenn PS4 and XB1. i made a diagram based on that figure (it´s quite simple but it´s clear how XB1 has double of titles of PS4:
After that, and considering each little tile aproximates the number of alus the argument PS4 1152 vs 768 alus on XB1 boiled in the water for me.
Part 8. Dual render is a must for Nextgen Context switching
It is when infact people not being confused at that time. It is funny when today (3 years later), people forget about this thing, people forget 16 rops could be 128bit or 256bit, People forget each Gfx CP will always have its own CU unit. When we asked people today, what about X1 CP, they will said PS4 has more CP LOL, When PS4 only has 1 CP (8 ACE + Gfx).
When at 2011, they already showed per 1 Gfx CP. Infact this time the label and diagram resemblance X1 hotcip that 1 unit GfxCP will always and control N number of CU. Gfx CP will have ACE + Gfx.
And they only hinted at that time that someday compute is more important, by doing that they can remove all the middle component
which relates to gfx but not to compute, the CP then better named as Compute CP as there is no Gfx command pass it on to CU.
And X1 is more advanced in 2 key areas the Gfx CP this time is dual render. The Compute CP this time not only dual render also have Latency cores (CPU part) plus Compute CP related to fast eSRAM too.
Part 10. The most important puzzle + fact
================================
and this 2011 info from MrX insider so much inline (how can he knew)
how about architecture for example --> 2 unit COmpute CP. Plus why MS stated 8 core doing 6 ops, and about 768 op/cycle.
I will focus on Compute CP part, still people can just extrapolate the diagram that i will provide later on for Gfx CP too.
Part 11. The command processor, from 1 render pipe to dual render to compute CP
Srenia Ia: CGN is stateless. Compute units run parallel with different shaders, asynchronously, and parrelel to the graphics pipeline. The change is coming soon. :-)
Ignore the PS4 dev, seems like a pointless comment. More quotes at the source.
PS4 ICE Team programmer Cort Stratton added that, “New SDKs can significantly improve performance on the same hardware, yes. Dunno about DX12/X1 specifically, of course; not my dept.
He also said that people have a right to be skeptical about performance gains. “Good; always be suspicious of ANY perf. improvement claims. e.g. what *exactly* got 50-100% faster? Faster than what? Details!”
Treyarch software engineer Dan Olson had a less amused take. “Here’s an article… no idea why people go on record for stuff like this.”
Programmer Dean Ashton found it downright hilarious. Either that or life-threatening judging by his response. “2x perf on Xbox One when using DX12? That article nearly made me choke on my cup of tea.”
Read more at http://gamingbolt.com/devs-react-to-...AoDlY3FJqQ5.99
Seems it's not just the fanboys that are skeptical. Discuss.
My MSI Twin Frozr IV R9-290X + Battlefield 4 Mantle + Thief Mantle runs under 80C. 95C temps limits my reference R9-290 from overheat damage.
I plan to apply "Accelero Hybrid II - 120" on my reference R9-290. http://www.arctic.ac/worldwide_en/products/cooling/vga/accelero-hybrid-ii-120.html
The first one actually works very well on a 290... I wrote a review of it and an installation guide.
First of and for the 100 time the PS4 doesn't need sh** ass DX12,DX12 is a late response from MS to AMD Mantle API,is not here and will not be here until late 2015 that late MS is,Mantle has been here since 2012 and shipped with BF4,the PS4 uses an APi call LibGNM that API basically work like Mantle and has been on PS4 since before launch so yeah by the time DX12 fully hit the xbox one the PS4 would have like 2+ years with LibGNM.
This is getting really sad... Even when top functioning employees from nvidia and amd say that DX12 is amazing you still call it shit ass. As if AMD would talk about DX12 like this if it was just like Mantle and not better. You must be really stuck in your own world... This is also the reason why nobody should listen to you, even if you make sense. Because you think you know better than AMD and Nvidia.
Your wasting your time, he has to be right no matter what's in front of him.
Using a rumour on game resolution which isn't out for a whole year is a prime example. Even if it was true, developers will be looking to improve the whole game including resolution and fps between now and launch.
Really do you want to debate with me how many rumors about the xbox one had been confirmed and how many debunked.?
Since the days when it was call the 720.?
Because basically everything rumor for MS become truth.
Weak specs.
24 hour check ups.
No used games.
ESRAM been difficult and not enough.
Kinect included.
Aggressive DRM.
Resolution gate bad xbox one performance in games.
COD Ghost 720p.
BF4 720p.
All rumors all turn out 100% true and there are more.
Epic thread about the xbox one games performing bad and was an anonymous developer who let it loose..
Hell i actually think the leak came from Ubisoft or another of those who had a 900p game on launch.
Hell i would dare say AC4 was the game in question..lol
So yeah rumors about the xbox one had been mostly on the spot..
@rocky_denace said:
No it does not equal mantle why yes Mantle is similar and yes Mantle offers performance gains but AMD even said themselves that DX12 was a huge leap and was faster then mantle. And as for DX DX technology has been around for years I was PC gaming back on DX6 so again every few year about 3-4yrs we see a new version of DX except with this version MS wanted to really make this a huge leap and AMD and Intel and Nvidia and the recent developer whom all have had first hand experience with the API tools has all confirmed it's a huge leap in performance.
Sorry your butthurt and can't handle this.
No DX will be similar to Mantle,Mantle came first.
We’ve spoken to several sources with additional information on the topic who have told us that Microsoft’s interest in developing a new API is a recent phenomenon, and that the new DirectX (likely DirectX 12) will substantially duplicate the capabilities of AMD’s Mantle.
DX version come mostly tied with windows version,11,for windows 7,11.1 to windows 8,11.2 to xbox one and windows 8.1..
In an email to XNA/DirectX Most Valuable Professionals (MVPs) yesterday, Microsoft gave notice that MVP status was being phased out for program members. According to the missive, this is being done because “the XNA Game Studio is not in active development and DirectX is no longer evolving as a technology.”
All of the sudden MS feel the urge to make another DX version it claimed that DX was no longer evolving..lol
Mantle performance sparked MS interest again and is the reason why the APi isn't here and all you are getting is promises,instead of real results like Mantle is doing,LibGNM is basically Mantle or DX12 how ever you like it,the problem is by the time MS arrive with DX the PS4 API will be even more evolve since Team Ice is constantly evolving their engines.
So yeah MS will never catch up even if the PS4 API remained static the PS4 has almost 600Gflops advantage you can't make for that gap with just an API..lol
a.- Group of CU that certainly will have performance ~ 2.6TF DP (48CU)
I stopped here..^^...lol....
Hahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa....
@GravityX said:
lol...maybe Ron can break it down.
He can't brake it down he will probably dismiss it as total bullsh** not even Ron will dare support such a stupid claim..lol
48CU lol...
@rocky_denace said:
This thread is freaking outrageous at this point. Listen bro just because mantle came first don't mean shit also you do realize that currently mantle is stalled for PS4 use and may never even go to PS4. But here is the real thing you need to get through your head. AMD themselves have come out recently and have said YES AMD YES AM F*CKING D themselves have said DX12 is a major performance boost and is better and faster then their own mantle but they will continue to release mantle non the less. Do you understand this? Or are you going to continue and say Mantle is the best and not listen to facts and reason even coming from mantle's own creator AM F*CKING D!!!
By this time i most realize that you are either a moron or you don't read well.
Mantle is not coming to PS4..
The PS4 doesn't need Mantle.
LIBGNM is the PS4 API and work like Mantle,Mantle is an API to emulate CONSOLES API son,the PS3 API that run to the Metal...Yeah is is Mantle and now DX12 will be,MS didn't support to the metal with their APi and now they will that is all DX12 is.
They are late for about 14 years...
Since you want to use AMD as base...
He said, "Everything that Sony has shared in that single chip is AMD [intellectual property], but we have not built an APU quite like that for anyone else in the market. It is by far the most powerful APU we have built to date
First of and for the 100 time the PS4 doesn't need sh** ass DX12,DX12 is a late response from MS to AMD Mantle API,is not here and will not be here until late 2015 that late MS is,Mantle has been here since 2012 and shipped with BF4,the PS4 uses an APi call LibGNM that API basically work like Mantle and has been on PS4 since before launch so yeah by the time DX12 fully hit the xbox one the PS4 would have like 2+ years with LibGNM.
This is getting really sad... Even when top functioning employees from nvidia and amd say that DX12 is amazing you still call it shit ass. As if AMD would talk about DX12 like this if it was just like Mantle and not better. You must be really stuck in your own world... This is also the reason why nobody should listen to you, even if you make sense. Because you think you know better than AMD and Nvidia.
Everyone on this board apparently thinks they have PHd's from MIT, Harvard, and Yale and have built a spaceship that can go faster then the speed of light.
how would that be helpful when discussing video games?
First of and for the 100 time the PS4 doesn't need sh** ass DX12,DX12 is a late response from MS to AMD Mantle API,is not here and will not be here until late 2015 that late MS is,Mantle has been here since 2012 and shipped with BF4,the PS4 uses an APi call LibGNM that API basically work like Mantle and has been on PS4 since before launch so yeah by the time DX12 fully hit the xbox one the PS4 would have like 2+ years with LibGNM.
This is getting really sad... Even when top functioning employees from nvidia and amd say that DX12 is amazing you still call it shit ass. As if AMD would talk about DX12 like this if it was just like Mantle and not better. You must be really stuck in your own world... This is also the reason why nobody should listen to you, even if you make sense. Because you think you know better than AMD and Nvidia.
Was going to say the same thing lol
He said, "Everything that Sony has shared in that single chip is AMD [intellectual property], but we have not built an APU quite like that for anyone else in the market. It is by far the most powerful APU we have built to date
You or him find me a quote of AMD calling the xbox one APU the most powerful APU they have build to date,because there is one for he PS4.
@rocky_denace said:
Everyone on this board apparently thinks they have PHd's from MIT, Harvard, and Yale and have built a spaceship that can go faster then the speed of light.
There's this little thing called a search engine you can use to verify facts on the web.
From PCWorld -one of about a thousand sources reporting:
AMD’s Raja Koduri said DirectX 12 was like “getting four generations of hardware ahead,” all at once. Intel’s Vice President of Platform Engineering Eric Mentzer shared a similar sentiment, with, “This is absolutely, I think, the most significant jump in technology in a long, long time.”
DX 12 was in development before X1, PS4 or Mantle -so it is not a reaponse to anything.
Not even gonna continue this debate as the tech will speak for itself.
Done responding. Any one who reads this I encourage you to do your research instead of paying heed to people like this that have no clue and randomly make up nonsense.
Theres different types of ROPS, misterxmedia says Xbox One 16 ROPS can easily perform like 64 ROPS since theres different types of ROPS 64bit,128bit, 256bit.
Theres different types of ROPS, misterxmedia says Xbox One 16 ROPS can easily perform like 64 ROPS since theres differences types of ROPS 64bit,128bit, 256bit.
Ok, this Xbox One hardware is super weird.
misterx is a fuckin idiot who has zero clue wtf he is making up
Theres different types of ROPS, misterxmedia says Xbox One 16 ROPS can easily perform like 64 ROPS since theres differences types of ROPS 64bit,128bit, 256bit.
Ok, this Xbox One hardware is super weird.
misterx is a fuckin idiot who has zero clue wtf he is making up
Not one person on here truly knows so the argument can certainly applied here. He may be a loon but at least its entertainment. Its always fun to speculate which is exactly whats happening here.
* None of us have worked with the DX 12 api.
* Even if one of us coded on the system we would still be going through an api which is by its nature gives limited access to the underlying system. We make api's at work and we are extremely careful with what we expose to outside devs-customers.
* None of us has bench marked the systems.
When someone says "I know everything about the (insert system)" you can be sure they don't, well unless you were on the architecture team. Even our senior devs at work don't know everything about our system (and they have complete source code access).
I simply can not believe how many stupid people there are in this thread that have bought into the whole 'DirectX12 performance boost'
Everyone in this thread is now more stupid having read all you dumb ass posts.
DirectX12's primary function is to reduce CPU overhead on the PC PLATFORM, yes Xbone will get some features but it not make it's weak ass GPU suddenly 2x faster, you'll be looking at single digit performance improvements at most.
You're all setting yourselves up for a big self ownage come E3.
I simply can not believe how many stupid people there are in this thread that have bought into the whole 'DirectX12 performance boost'
Everyone in this thread is now more stupid having read all you dumb ass posts.
DirectX12's primary function is to reduce CPU overhead on the PC PLATFORM, yes Xbone will get some features but it not make it's weak ass GPU suddenly 2x faster, you'll be looking at single digit performance improvements at most.
You're all setting yourselves up for a big self ownage come E3.
I simply can not believe how many stupid people there are in this thread that have bought into the whole 'DirectX12 performance boost'
Everyone in this thread is now more stupid having read all you dumb ass posts.
DirectX12's primary function is to reduce CPU overhead on the PC PLATFORM, yes Xbone will get some features but it not make it's weak ass GPU suddenly 2x faster, you'll be looking at single digit performance improvements at most.
You're all setting yourselves up for a big self ownage come E3.
It is surprising to me that anyone is believing DirectX12 is some magical savior. Either it's fanboyism or ignorance.....or both. But it's laughable anyway.
I simply can not believe how many stupid people there are in this thread that have bought into the whole 'DirectX12 performance boost'
Everyone in this thread is now more stupid having read all you dumb ass posts.
DirectX12's primary function is to reduce CPU overhead on the PC PLATFORM, yes Xbone will get some features but it not make it's weak ass GPU suddenly 2x faster, you'll be looking at single digit performance improvements at most.
You're all setting yourselves up for a big self ownage come E3.
I simply can not believe how many stupid people there are in this thread that have bought into the whole 'DirectX12 performance boost'
Everyone in this thread is now more stupid having read all you dumb ass posts.
DirectX12's primary function is to reduce CPU overhead on the PC PLATFORM, yes Xbone will get some features but it not make it's weak ass GPU suddenly 2x faster, you'll be looking at single digit performance improvements at most.
You're all setting yourselves up for a big self ownage come E3.
Theres different types of ROPS, misterxmedia says Xbox One 16 ROPS can easily perform like 64 ROPS since theres differences types of ROPS 64bit,128bit, 256bit.
Ok, this Xbox One hardware is super weird.
misterx is a fuckin idiot who has zero clue wtf he is making up
That misterc guy on the other hand seems to know what he is talking about, I would love to see a discussion between him and someone from the other team.
MisterC knows a lot about hardware design. If he were to come on here I'm not sure that anyone here could debate him. He is the heart of that blog and why some take it seriously. Also its one place on the internet where you don't have Sony fans downplaying everything. I take it as a speculation site.
Theres different types of ROPS, misterxmedia says Xbox One 16 ROPS can easily perform like 64 ROPS since theres differences types of ROPS 64bit,128bit, 256bit.
Ok, this Xbox One hardware is super weird.
misterx is a fuckin idiot who has zero clue wtf he is making up
That misterc guy on the other hand seems to know what he is talking about, I would love to see a discussion between him and someone from the other team.
HiDefNinja an Parasite are also Devs who comment on the findings. HiDef is an actual dev working on PS4-Xbone One titles.
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