Dark Souls will blow Skyrim, Witcher 2 to the oblivion

[QUOTE="Master_ShakeXXX"]

Gotta agree with the TC. In the end, a quality Japanese dev and their project will always be leagues beyond anything a Western dev can come up with.

waltefmoney

Lolno. Not in this genre.

Demon's Souls > any WRPG from this gen :P

[QUOTE="waltefmoney"]

Lolno. Not in this genre.

Master_ShakeXXX

Demon's Souls > any WRPG from this gen :P

Why?

[QUOTE="Master_ShakeXXX"]

[QUOTE="waltefmoney"]

Lolno. Not in this genre.

waltefmoney

Demon's Souls > any WRPG from this gen :P

Why?

I don't know. Because god willed it, maybe?

I don't know. Because god willed it, maybe?

Master_ShakeXXX

Okay, what makes Demon's Souls better than any wRPG released this gen?

Gotta agree with the TC. In the end, a quality Japanese dev and their project will always be leagues beyond anything a Western dev can come up with.

Master_ShakeXXX

[QUOTE="Master_ShakeXXX"]

I don't know. Because god willed it, maybe?

waltefmoney

Okay, what makes Demon's Souls better than any wRPG released this gen?

Just about everything. Atmosphere, difficulty, level design, gameplay, innovative and awesome online mechanics, boss fights. Pretty much blows everything else away, and then some.

[QUOTE="waltefmoney"]

[QUOTE="Master_ShakeXXX"]

I don't know. Because god willed it, maybe?

Master_ShakeXXX

Okay, what makes Demon's Souls better than any wRPG released this gen?

Just about everything. Atmosphere, difficulty, level design, gameplay, innovative and awesome online mechanics, boss fights. Pretty much blows everything else away, and then some.

Despite the hate I threw at Demons Souls and maybe even negatively hyped Dark Souls I just want to say I still love DS and am very hyped up for Dark Souls.

Here is how I feel the games will rank up: Witcher 2>Dark Souls>Witcher 1>Demons Souls>Oblivion>Skyrim

Okay, what makes Demon's Souls better than any wRPG released this gen?

waltefmoney

While I dont think it is better than every wRPG this gen I can see why someone would think so.

The gloomy atmosphere, the constant feeling of danger, the rewarding feeling when you kill a boss, the difficulty (for some, not me, I breezed through that game), the combat system (the best combat system on CONSOLES), the online intergration and the subtle storytelling, some even like the lore/universe.

[QUOTE="Master_ShakeXXX"]

Gotta agree with the TC. In the end, a quality Japanese dev and their project will always be leagues beyond anything a Western dev can come up with.

SkyWard20

I feel that this needs to be posted:

"What games are you looking forward to playing in 2011?

Hidetaka Miyazaki, director, Dark Souls:Politically this is sort of a difficult question to answer! [laughter] I'm a big gamer. But to be honest, right now I absolutely love Magic: The Gathering Online. For 2011, I'm really looking forward to UNCHARTED 3 and The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim."

All western games. 8)

[QUOTE="Master_ShakeXXX"]

[QUOTE="waltefmoney"]

Okay, what makes Demon's Souls better than any wRPG released this gen?

Birdy09

Just about everything. Atmosphere, difficulty, level design, gameplay, innovative and awesome online mechanics, boss fights. Pretty much blows everything else away, and then some.

Clearly you didn't "get" it. Going off your post, you were expecting Demon's Souls to be the same 'ol cliched crap. It's not supposed follow the rules that you're comfortable with. The difficulty is perfectly balanced, as in it's always fair. Since when in the hell are optional side quests required, or interaction for that matter? Poor music? Gameplay is bug ridden? Did you even play it?

[QUOTE="Birdy09"][QUOTE="Master_ShakeXXX"]

Just about everything. Atmosphere, difficulty, level design, gameplay, innovative and awesome online mechanics, boss fights. Pretty much blows everything else away, and then some.

Master_ShakeXXX

Clearly you didn't "get" it. Going off your post, you were expecting Demon's Souls to be the same 'ol cliched crap. It's not supposed follow the rules that you're comfortable with. The difficulty is perfectly balanced, as in it's always fair. Since when in the hell are optional side quests required, or interaction for that matter? Poor music? Gameplay is bug ridden? Did you even play it?

[QUOTE="Master_ShakeXXX"]

[QUOTE="Birdy09"] Atmosphere - You mean grundgy looking zones, poor music and any lack of context of each level? Difficulty - completely overated the second you can level up, highly exploitable (you can wear the ring that makes enemies less aware of you and just attack them in the back, works on 90% of enemies, over and over again), a large portion of the bosses would only hit a player if the player is a complete and utter idiot that cant follow a simple movement pattern, those bosses that you couldnt avoid were potion + attack spamable like any other. Stupid bosses like the giant storm ray provided a stupidly easy way to become majorly over leveled. Level Design - are you kidding me? one or 2 optional events per map, with little interaction, pending on a "allignment meter", linear, empty, souless. Gameplay - Its quite good, though bug ridden, stiff and limited. Online Mechanics - ok, ghosting was interesting il give you that, but as far as player interaction goes, it wasnt even as good as 10 year old online rpgs like Diablo... let alone anything else, served little to no purpose. Boss fights - already mentioned in difficulty, final boss was terrible, most of them were easy fillers.Birdy09

Clearly you didn't "get" it. Going off your post, you were expecting Demon's Souls to be the same 'ol cliched crap. It's not supposed follow the rules that you're comfortable with. The difficulty is perfectly balanced, as in it's always fair. Since when in the hell are optional side quests required, or interaction for that matter? Poor music? Gameplay is bug ridden? Did you even play it?

I'm not quite sure what you're talking about. I'm sorry, but it seems to me that you are just saying random things about a game that you have never played :?

[QUOTE="Birdy09"][QUOTE="Master_ShakeXXX"]

Clearly you didn't "get" it. Going off your post, you were expecting Demon's Souls to be the same 'ol cliched crap. It's not supposed follow the rules that you're comfortable with. The difficulty is perfectly balanced, as in it's always fair. Since when in the hell are optional side quests required, or interaction for that matter? Poor music? Gameplay is bug ridden? Did you even play it?

Master_ShakeXXX

I'm not quite sure what it is that you're talking about. I'm sorry, but it seems to me that you are just saying random things about a game that you have never played :?

Yes, I have a rebuttal. Everything you said is a biased opinion. Obviously it differs a lot from the majority of people who have rated this game as follows:

GS: 9.0, GOTY, User Score: 8.9

Metacritic: 89, User Score: 8.9

Gamerankings: 89,88

So, now, please proceed and explain to us why WE are wrong and YOU are right.

KiZZo1

9.5; 91.

And I'm not saying DA is a bad game even though I don't like it. I'm responding to his statement that DS is a bad/mediocre game that would score 6.5/7 on PC ...

KiZZo1

Oh, sorry then.

[QUOTE="waltefmoney"]

[QUOTE="KiZZo1"]

Yes, I have a rebuttal. Everything you said is a biased opinion. Obviously it differs a lot from the majority of people who have rated this game as follows:

GS: 9.0, GOTY, User Score: 8.9

Metacritic: 89, User Score: 8.9

Gamerankings: 89,88

So, now, please proceed and explain to us why WE are wrong and YOU are right.

KiZZo1

9.5; 91.

No GOTY though. Tough luck ...

And I'm not saying DA is a bad game even though I don't like it. I'm responding to his statement that DS is a bad/mediocre game that would score 6.5/7 on PC ...

No RPG really compares to it in terms of combat. All major WRPGs suck ass in combat, stuff like oblivion and gothic have crap combat, JRPGs are more turned based, but action combat ones typically can't compare to demon's souls either. Each weapon acts differently, there is a lot of physics and weight to the weapons, how they react makes sense. I believe it excels in the combat like I mentioned as well as atmosphere, it creates a great feeling of isolation and a literal "you're the last hope". The lack of story adds to this feeling of mystery and isolation. The music is also good, it just never plays other than boss fights, it feels as epic as the actual fights. Its true that the game is not nearly as hard as people make it out to be, its about the difficulty I'd expect all games these days to be. For the record, I am primarily a PC gamer, and I still loved Demon's Souls. :)110million

I disagree, I felt that both ranged, magic and miracles felt severely underworked and just downright poor.

Each to his own, but I feel that Turn Based Combat in general beats action combat for the RPG genre, and Dungeons and Dragons which has several WRPG adaptions, most which beats Demons Souls combat.

Dark Souls is going to have to be a massive step up from Demon's Souls to blow those two away. Don't get me wrong, I love DS, but that's a bold statement to say the least.

Twin-Blade

Why is it a bold statement? Is it too far fetched to claim that a spiritual successor to the GOTY 2009 is able to trump over.....let's see....a sequel to a game which wasn't even AAA, let alone GOTY? Skyrim is an equal contender, but not necessarily Witcher 2.

[QUOTE="110million"]No RPG really compares to it in terms of combat. All major WRPGs suck ass in combat, stuff like oblivion and gothic have crap combat, JRPGs are more turned based, but action combat ones typically can't compare to demon's souls either. Each weapon acts differently, there is a lot of physics and weight to the weapons, how they react makes sense. I believe it excels in the combat like I mentioned as well as atmosphere, it creates a great feeling of isolation and a literal "you're the last hope". The lack of story adds to this feeling of mystery and isolation. The music is also good, it just never plays other than boss fights, it feels as epic as the actual fights. Its true that the game is not nearly as hard as people make it out to be, its about the difficulty I'd expect all games these days to be. For the record, I am primarily a PC gamer, and I still loved Demon's Souls. :)Maroxad

I disagree, I felt that both ranged, magic and miracles felt severely underworked and just downright poor.

Each to his own, but I feel that Turn Based Combat in general beats action combat for the RPG genre, and Dungeons and Dragons which has several WRPG adaptions, most which beats Demons Souls combat.

[QUOTE="Twin-Blade"]

Dark Souls is going to have to be a massive step up from Demon's Souls to blow those two away. Don't get me wrong, I love DS, but that's a bold statement to say the least.

jhcho2

Why is it a bold statement? Is it too far fetched to claim that a spiritual successor to the GOTY 2009 is able to trump over.....let's see....a sequel to a game which wasn't even AAA, let alone GOTY? Skyrim is an equal contender, but not necessarily Witcher 2.

[QUOTE="Master_ShakeXXX"]

[QUOTE="waltefmoney"]

Okay, what makes Demon's Souls better than any wRPG released this gen?

Birdy09

Just about everything. Atmosphere, difficulty, level design, gameplay, innovative and awesome online mechanics, boss fights. Pretty much blows everything else away, and then some.

I don't know what game you were describing, but it wasn't Demon's Souls.

I used melee for 99% of the game, and thats what I was talking about. I never said action was better than turn based combat, I also prefer it, but very few games do good DnD systems these says, with bioware having ditched it for a very casual alternative, there is not much hope left for big budget dnd based games. I meant from RPGs that try for action combat, Demon's Souls is superior, at the very least in the way it was meant to be played, which is melee. The alternatives are button mashers or just generally crap. 110million

Ahh, ok. I agree with you, the melee in Demons Souls is pure awesome, the second best melee combat in the ARPG genre imo. The melee in Demons Souls is only beaten by Mount and Blade, which I mentioned earlier in this thread but that is not a big budget game. I also complain about a lot of high budget titles, especially Bioware (and how they are dumbing down their already very simple rulesets glares at DA2).

Here is a hoping Dark Souls improves on both magic and archery from DS, it will be hard to top the melee combat that Demons Souls is using but if they succeed, I will be one very happy man.

Edit: I believe I misinterpreted a few of your words, mostly caused by discussing with someone else in this thread. Except he would also say that any combat system that uses a mouse as well as any system that is turn based sucks. Sorry for the inconvenience.

[QUOTE="finalstar2007"]

So much WRPG talk..where are the JRPG threads? :x..anyways looking forward to Dark Souls

kholdstare61

Mass Effect 3 owns all / Thread

[QUOTE="waltefmoney"]

[QUOTE="KiZZo1"]

Yes, I have a rebuttal. Everything you said is a biased opinion. Obviously it differs a lot from the majority of people who have rated this game as follows:

GS: 9.0, GOTY, User Score: 8.9

Metacritic: 89, User Score: 8.9

Gamerankings: 89,88

So, now, please proceed and explain to us why WE are wrong and YOU are right.

KiZZo1

9.5; 91.

No GOTY though. Tough luck ...

And I'm not saying DA is a bad game even though I don't like it. I'm responding to his statement that DS is a bad/mediocre game that would score 6.5/7 on PC ...

wow I guess it's hard for PC and 360 fans to accept that Japanese devs have passed Western devs in the genre they love the most, WRPG. Deal with it.

By holiday 2011, you soon will see what PS3 fans have known all along. Western devs should take note how the From Soft handle the combat mechanic and how they create masterpiece dark fantasy atmosphere

wow I guess it's hard for PC and 360 fans to accept that Japanese devs have passed Western devs in the genre they love the most, WRPG. Deal with it.

By holiday 2011, you soon will see what PS3 fans have known all along. Western devs should take note how the From Soft handle the combat mechanic and how they create masterpiece dark fantasy atmosphere

-Damien-

1) Demon's Souls is a jRPG.
2) It's one game.
3) Even if you only look at Demon's Souls, it still hasn't passed some of the wRPG's of this gen.

wow I guess it's hard for PC and 360 fans to accept that Japanese devs have passed Western devs in the genre they love the most, WRPG. Deal with it.

By holiday 2011, you soon will see what PS3 fans have known all along. Western devs should take note how the From Soft handle the combat mechanic and how they create masterpiece dark fantasy atmosphere

GOTY..... means absolutely nothing to anyone but the publishers, and even at the time it was conceived that they did it as a "Shocker" GOTY, out of nowhere meanwhile not many other websites, or critics gave it GOTY.... because it simple wasnt to many, because... like I said, sum of all of its parts were largely not captilized on, its that simple. and yea, as mentioned, Dragon Age has higher critical acclaim and user acclaim, so, it makes your point dedundant, but typical you would bring up "GOTY" because that is nothing more than a baised opinion of a group of reviewers trying to rack up more credibility by appealing to the "Hardcore" so called that actually believed this game was the "hardcore's bee's knees".

Birdy09

A lot of what you just said is pretty subjective. You know that reviewers artificially hyped and overscored DS to be a fact? I highly doubt that. Its fine if you didn't enjoy Demon's Souls - a lot of people didn't. That's a matter of personal taste, though, and can't really be made into any real quantifiable evidence.

[QUOTE="-Damien-"]

wow I guess it's hard for PC and 360 fans to accept that Japanese devs have passed Western devs in the genre they love the most, WRPG. Deal with it.

By holiday 2011, you soon will see what PS3 fans have known all along. Western devs should take note how the From Soft handle the combat mechanic and how they create masterpiece dark fantasy atmosphere

waltefmoney

1) Demon's Souls is a jRPG.
2) It's one game.
3) Even if you only look at Demon's Souls, it still hasn't passed some of the wRPG's of this gen.

1. Hardly, looks and plays like a WRPG, even if was made in Japan

2. Now it is two and one is on both 360/PS3

3. It actually passes any WRPG in combat, gameplay and atmosphere, bosses and monster AI/implementation, balancing, fun

Not the best in story and there are no huge cities with NPCs etc, but Dark Souls seems to cover that as well this time, making for what could be the perfect RPG

1. Hardly, looks and plays like a WRPG, even if was made in Japan

2. Now it is two and one is on both 360/PS3

3. It actually passes any WRPG in combat, gameplay and atmosphere, bosses and monster AI/implementation, balancing, fun

Not the best in story and there are no huge cities with NPCs etc, but Dark Souls seems to cover that as well this time, making for what could be the perfect RPG

Creator_Of_All

1) Still a jRPG.
2) The second one is not Demon's Souls, it's Dark Souls, and it's not released yet.
3) Not really.

Demon's Souls is an amazing game. But better than any wRPG? Come on people.

[QUOTE="Birdy09"]GOTY..... means absolutely nothing to anyone but the publishers, and even at the time it was conceived that they did it as a "Shocker" GOTY, out of nowhere meanwhile not many other websites, or critics gave it GOTY.... because it simple wasnt to many, because... like I said, sum of all of its parts were largely not captilized on, its that simple. and yea, as mentioned, Dragon Age has higher critical acclaim and user acclaim, so, it makes your point dedundant, but typical you would bring up "GOTY" because that is nothing more than a baised opinion of a group of reviewers trying to rack up more credibility by appealing to the "Hardcore" so called that actually believed this game was the "hardcore's bee's knees".

clone01

A lot of what you just said is pretty subjective. You know that reviewers artificially hyped and overscored DS to be a fact? I highly doubt that. Its fine if you didn't enjoy Demon's Souls - a lot of people didn't. That's a matter of personal taste, though, and can't really be made into any real quantifiable evidence.

We shall see, we shall see.

Back in 2009, Dragon Age was hyped through the highest roof, masterpiece RPG, successor to Baldurs Gate blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Development and marketing budget was in the billions.

No one talked about Demon's Souls at all. Then Demon's Souls came, became RPG of the Year, GOTY and kicked Dragon Age's ass so hard that no one cares for DA2 anymore.

And Dark Souls will do the same thing. Why? simple, it's the better game. If you've played Demon's Souls, you'd know the combat mechanic is miles ahead with what The Witcher 2 and Skyrim have to offer. The animation is better, the atmosphere is better, the difficulty is better (difficult but fair and balanced)

Watch Dark Souls trailer and watch Witcher 2 gameplay trailer, you're in denial if you think Witcher 2 has better combat. The combat animation is lacking, there's no sense of weight and momentum, There's no concept of stunned frames, follow-through frames, recovery frames, invincible frames. The roll animation sucks, etc, etc, etc.

We shall see, we shall see.

Back in 2009, Dragon Age was hyped through the highest roof, masterpiece RPG, successor to Baldurs Gate blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Development and marketing budget was in the billions.

No one talked about Demon's Souls at all. Then Demon's Souls came, became RPG of the Year, GOTY and kicked Dragon Age's ass so hard that no one cares for DA2 anymore.

-Damien-

Again..

9.5; 91.

waltefmoney

We shall see, we shall see.

Back in 2009, Dragon Age was hyped through the highest roof, masterpiece RPG, successor to Baldurs Gate blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Development and marketing budget was in the billions.

No one talked about Demon's Souls at all. Then Demon's Souls came, became RPG of the Year, GOTY and kicked Dragon Age's ass so hard that no one cares for DA2 anymore.

And Dark Souls will do the same thing. Why? simple, it's the better game. If you've played Demon's Souls, you'd know the combat mechanic is miles ahead with what The Witcher 2 and Skyrim have to offer. The animation is better, the atmosphere is better, the difficulty is better (difficult but fair and balanced)

Watch Dark Souls trailer and watch Witcher 2 gameplay trailer, you're in denial if you think Witcher 2 has better combat. The combat animation is lacking, there's no sense of weight and momentum, There's no concept of stunned frames, follow-through frames, recovery frames, invincible frames. The roll animation sucks, etc, etc, etc.

-Damien-

1) You havnt seen anything of Skyrims combat.

2) Demon Souls had goodish combat, but it was so limited it mayaswell have been a slow paced hack and slash with added tidbits of RPG progression shoved in.

3) how on earth can you say the animations of that stiff low production game will be better than A) a game you have seen no fottage of yet. B) The Witcher 2, which has amazing animations?

Oh you mean, combat animations? yes well, the one game is a hack n slash rpg, the other is a spreadsheet traditional rpg, so you definition of better is subjective on preference of subgenre. meaning, pointless.

[QUOTE="waltefmoney"]

[QUOTE="-Damien-"]

wow I guess it's hard for PC and 360 fans to accept that Japanese devs have passed Western devs in the genre they love the most, WRPG. Deal with it.

By holiday 2011, you soon will see what PS3 fans have known all along. Western devs should take note how the From Soft handle the combat mechanic and how they create masterpiece dark fantasy atmosphere

Creator_Of_All

1) Demon's Souls is a jRPG.
2) It's one game.
3) Even if you only look at Demon's Souls, it still hasn't passed some of the wRPG's of this gen.

1. Hardly, looks and plays like a WRPG, even if was made in Japan

2. Now it is two and one is on both 360/PS3

3. It actually passes any WRPG in combat, gameplay and atmosphere, bosses and monster AI/implementation, balancing, fun

Not the best in story and there are no huge cities with NPCs etc, but Dark Souls seems to cover that as well this time, making for what could be the perfect RPG

3) Combat I would give this to either Mount and Blade or Demon Souls. AI? Like how the first boss you run into you can lure over to a pit and watch him run off to his death? Or do you mean AI like every boss has a pattern (actually the opposite of AI because simple behaviors and tells are being programmed into the character)...Fun? Is that something that is quanifiable now across the board because if it is you should tell the whole bunch of critics that rated games like Dragon Age that year higher and tell them to take away all the RPG, GOTY awards that game won..which end up being more than Demons Souls won that year.

Im not saying they gave it artificial scores, im saying Gamespot chose it as GOTY to impress. and it quite clearly worked, subjective yes, but other sites not following suit suggests its in my favour.Birdy09

[QUOTE="-Damien-"]

We shall see, we shall see.

Back in 2009, Dragon Age was hyped through the highest roof, masterpiece RPG, successor to Baldurs Gate blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Development and marketing budget was in the billions.

No one talked about Demon's Souls at all. Then Demon's Souls came, became RPG of the Year, GOTY and kicked Dragon Age's ass so hard that no one cares for DA2 anymore.

And Dark Souls will do the same thing. Why? simple, it's the better game. If you've played Demon's Souls, you'd know the combat mechanic is miles ahead with what The Witcher 2 and Skyrim have to offer. The animation is better, the atmosphere is better, the difficulty is better (difficult but fair and balanced)

Watch Dark Souls trailer and watch Witcher 2 gameplay trailer, you're in denial if you think Witcher 2 has better combat. The combat animation is lacking, there's no sense of weight and momentum, There's no concept of stunned frames, follow-through frames, recovery frames, invincible frames. The roll animation sucks, etc, etc, etc.

Birdy09

1) You havnt seen anything of Skyrims combat.

2) Demon Souls had goodish combat, but it was so limited it mayaswell have been a slow paced hack and slash with added tidbits of RPG progression shoved in.

3) how on earth can you say the animations of that stiff low production game will be better than A) a game you have seen no fottage of yet. B) The Witcher 2, which has amazing animations?

Oh you mean, combat animations? yes well, the one game is a hack n slash rpg, the other is a spreadsheet traditional rpg, so you definition of better is subjective on preference of subgenre. meaning, pointless.

yes there are W2 gameplay videos floating around somewhere. The animation is terrible, though it's better than DA2 animation, but that's not saying much

waltefmoney, you're stupid if you don't think EA marketing budget had anything to do with that. Those millions of dollars ahve to go somewhere.

Wanna see Demon's Souls marketing budget, how bout $0.00

heck even Sony refused to publish this game. It lived off on words of mouth alone

-Damien-

It was published by Sony in Japan. Namco in Europe. Atlus in the US. As for the marketing budget, link?

And Dark Souls will do the same thing. Why? simple, it's the better game. If you've played Demon's Souls, you'd know the combat mechanic is miles ahead with what The Witcher 2 and Skyrim have to offer. -Damien-

Where did you get your time machine?

We shall see, we shall see.

Back in 2009, Dragon Age was hyped through the highest roof, masterpiece RPG, successor to Baldurs Gate blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Development and marketing budget was in the billions.

No one talked about Demon's Souls at all. Then Demon's Souls came, became RPG of the Year, GOTY and kicked Dragon Age's ass so hard that no one cares for DA2 anymore.

And Dark Souls will do the same thing. Why? simple, it's the better game. If you've played Demon's Souls, you'd know the combat mechanic is miles ahead with what The Witcher 2 and Skyrim have to offer. The animation is better, the atmosphere is better, the difficulty is better (difficult but fair and balanced)

Watch Dark Souls trailer and watch Witcher 2 gameplay trailer, you're in denial if you think Witcher 2 has better combat. The combat animation is lacking, there's no sense of weight and momentum, There's no concept of stunned frames, follow-through frames, recovery frames, invincible frames. The roll animation sucks, etc, etc, etc.

This is W2 latest gameplay video. I mean look at the animation, what kind of dodge-roll is that? look at the monster animation, are they on rails? especially the large spider at the end

Then look atmosphere. Bright colors for dark fantasy, really?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AXfsvKGIFDI&t=286s