Amazon takes dig at Microsoft and Xbox One

@kuu2 said:

@misterpmedia said:

@kuu2 said:

It is not a scam, and it has nothing to do with awareness. Amazon being behind Xbox LIVE paywall is a non issue because no one buys Live because of the streaming features as the main reason. If you have LIVE it is to play games online as its main use period. Now there are certain things that are included with LIVE but those are just sprinkles on the sunday not the ice cream.

It has lots to do with awareness, sometimes you can reel down the things you can't do with the console without having live to an Xbox gamer and you'll be surprised what reaction you get. Lol I'm glad you know what every Xbox gamer does with his/her console, jeez /s. Speaking in absolutes only highlights bias and doesn't further the point at all. I've see comments where people have let their live run dry by jumping ship to only come back to their 360 just to use some simple features, out of convenience, like the browser and have themselves locked out? Yo, you need gold for that! Lol I mean come on. People are definitely re-analysing it because now PSN can go toe to toe in features, what's left to differentiate?(inb4: boring stability retorts) Not to mention more value, and people can stop when they want to stop and still be able to use most of the console when it's done. WOWZA, fancy that, aye? Maybe you forgot about those people who may not be able to afford next months live for what ever reason(inb4: but it's only like $$$) or may consider stopping it for what ever reason and want to feel comfortable that without live their console isn't a featureless brick....which it would be.....

@Scipio8 said:

This only shows they see the Xbox as the competition, they know Sony is just dead man walking

@StormyJoe said:

@misterpmedia: Because there are just so many people out there who pay for Xbox Live so that they can use Netflix...

Again, lems seem to know a whole lot about every Xbox owner. Need to know where this hub of information can be accessed, hivemind? The sarcasm is there but it's probably true ;) and you couldn't deny it, you can still play games offline you know :P. The "you have to pay to play online anyway" retort is just laughable because you are the perfect MS customer(take that as a compliment or insult, up to you lol), that's the drone argument but maybe that's Stockholm syndrome setting in. It only gets you so far. Doesn't matter if you pay to play games online we're talking about what MS sneakily corners off in the process. inb4: PSN equivalent argument.

@FoxbatAlpha said:

Yeah because the only reason you pay $60 a year on XBOX is to watch Netflix . P don't be this ignorant.

Seeing a common theme here. The hivemind is strong. Shitbat, fight me irl.

Point to a single person on this site that buys LIVE for movie/show streaming services...........

Go ahead I will wait.

Also, who the hell pays full price for LIVE ever?????? I can usually find it for $40 and sometimes $30.

You Cows point to everything but reality when it comes to consoles.

Well, then... go find some XBox owners who complain about it. I have been on XBL since 2003 - I have never heard "it sucks that MS put Netflix behind the paywall" or "I got XBL so I could stream Netflix movies".

The only people who "complain" about it are Sony fanboys.

Like I said, it's about awareness as I said to Kuu2, most people don't realise it and as PSN back then was a wreck I bet they never even batted an eyelid but things change.

Fun fact: your fun facts #2 and #3 aren't facts. Way to make a fool of yourself. The irony of typing out a koolaid comment while defending Live's negatives that ARE facts LOL. Those absolutes to further point, this tactic is strong within lems, either go hyperbole or don't go at all it seems. "It hasn't happened to me...therefore...it doesn't happen! " Fucking top kek. The emphasis on the sony fanboys about live definitely shows your stockholm syndrome. "no-one can ever dislike what I like!" graggrgghh!

@StormyJoe said:

@kuu2 said:

@misterpmedia said:

@kuu2 said:

It is not a scam, and it has nothing to do with awareness. Amazon being behind Xbox LIVE paywall is a non issue because no one buys Live because of the streaming features as the main reason. If you have LIVE it is to play games online as its main use period. Now there are certain things that are included with LIVE but those are just sprinkles on the sunday not the ice cream.

It has lots to do with awareness, sometimes you can reel down the things you can't do with the console without having live to an Xbox gamer and you'll be surprised what reaction you get. Lol I'm glad you know what every Xbox gamer does with his/her console, jeez /s. Speaking in absolutes only highlights bias and doesn't further the point at all. I've see comments where people have let their live run dry by jumping ship to only come back to their 360 just to use some simple features, out of convenience, like the browser and have themselves locked out? Yo, you need gold for that! Lol I mean come on. People are definitely re-analysing it because now PSN can go toe to toe in features, what's left to differentiate?(inb4: boring stability retorts) Not to mention more value, and people can stop when they want to stop and still be able to use most of the console when it's done. WOWZA, fancy that, aye? Maybe you forgot about those people who may not be able to afford next months live for what ever reason(inb4: but it's only like $$$) or may consider stopping it for what ever reason and want to feel comfortable that without live their console isn't a featureless brick....which it would be.....

@Scipio8 said:

This only shows they see the Xbox as the competition, they know Sony is just dead man walking

@StormyJoe said:

@misterpmedia: Because there are just so many people out there who pay for Xbox Live so that they can use Netflix...

Again, lems seem to know a whole lot about every Xbox owner. Need to know where this hub of information can be accessed, hivemind? The sarcasm is there but it's probably true ;) and you couldn't deny it, you can still play games offline you know :P. The "you have to pay to play online anyway" retort is just laughable because you are the perfect MS customer(take that as a compliment or insult, up to you lol), that's the drone argument but maybe that's Stockholm syndrome setting in. It only gets you so far. Doesn't matter if you pay to play games online we're talking about what MS sneakily corners off in the process. inb4: PSN equivalent argument.

@FoxbatAlpha said:

Yeah because the only reason you pay $60 a year on XBOX is to watch Netflix . P don't be this ignorant.

Seeing a common theme here. The hivemind is strong. Shitbat, fight me irl.

Point to a single person on this site that buys LIVE for movie/show streaming services...........

Go ahead I will wait.

Also, who the hell pays full price for LIVE ever?????? I can usually find it for $40 and sometimes $30.

You Cows point to everything but reality when it comes to consoles.

Well, then... go find some XBox owners who complain about it. I have been on XBL since 2003 - I have never heard "it sucks that MS put Netflix behind the paywall" or "I got XBL so I could stream Netflix movies".

The only people who "complain" about it are Sony fanboys.

False. You can't possibly claim to do what anyone does with their console. You're just making yourself look stupid. Anything negative is a sonyfanboy right? I guess there's always a scapegoat when there's nothing left to argue.

Came for the Amazon shanking of MS, stayed for the lemming damage control and FreedomFromFacts making an ass of himself. Delicious.

Go find me some XBox owners who complain, then. I'll wait.

@misterpmedia said:

@StormyJoe said:

@kuu2 said:

@misterpmedia said:

@kuu2 said:

It is not a scam, and it has nothing to do with awareness. Amazon being behind Xbox LIVE paywall is a non issue because no one buys Live because of the streaming features as the main reason. If you have LIVE it is to play games online as its main use period. Now there are certain things that are included with LIVE but those are just sprinkles on the sunday not the ice cream.

It has lots to do with awareness, sometimes you can reel down the things you can't do with the console without having live to an Xbox gamer and you'll be surprised what reaction you get. Lol I'm glad you know what every Xbox gamer does with his/her console, jeez /s. Speaking in absolutes only highlights bias and doesn't further the point at all. I've see comments where people have let their live run dry by jumping ship to only come back to their 360 just to use some simple features, out of convenience, like the browser and have themselves locked out? Yo, you need gold for that! Lol I mean come on. People are definitely re-analysing it because now PSN can go toe to toe in features, what's left to differentiate?(inb4: boring stability retorts) Not to mention more value, and people can stop when they want to stop and still be able to use most of the console when it's done. WOWZA, fancy that, aye? Maybe you forgot about those people who may not be able to afford next months live for what ever reason(inb4: but it's only like $$$) or may consider stopping it for what ever reason and want to feel comfortable that without live their console isn't a featureless brick....which it would be.....

@Scipio8 said:

This only shows they see the Xbox as the competition, they know Sony is just dead man walking

@StormyJoe said:

@misterpmedia: Because there are just so many people out there who pay for Xbox Live so that they can use Netflix...

Again, lems seem to know a whole lot about every Xbox owner. Need to know where this hub of information can be accessed, hivemind? The sarcasm is there but it's probably true ;) and you couldn't deny it, you can still play games offline you know :P. The "you have to pay to play online anyway" retort is just laughable because you are the perfect MS customer(take that as a compliment or insult, up to you lol), that's the drone argument but maybe that's Stockholm syndrome setting in. It only gets you so far. Doesn't matter if you pay to play games online we're talking about what MS sneakily corners off in the process. inb4: PSN equivalent argument.

@FoxbatAlpha said:

Yeah because the only reason you pay $60 a year on XBOX is to watch Netflix . P don't be this ignorant.

Seeing a common theme here. The hivemind is strong. Shitbat, fight me irl.

Point to a single person on this site that buys LIVE for movie/show streaming services...........

Go ahead I will wait.

Also, who the hell pays full price for LIVE ever?????? I can usually find it for $40 and sometimes $30.

You Cows point to everything but reality when it comes to consoles.

Well, then... go find some XBox owners who complain about it. I have been on XBL since 2003 - I have never heard "it sucks that MS put Netflix behind the paywall" or "I got XBL so I could stream Netflix movies".

The only people who "complain" about it are Sony fanboys.

False. You can't possibly claim to do what anyone does with their console. You're just making yourself look stupid. Anything negative is a sonyfanboy right? I guess there's always a scapegoat when there's nothing left to argue.

Yet, you are doing the exact same thing by insinuating that there are a lot of Xbox owners who do complain or feel cheated.

There's a remedy for bitter people like you - don't buy an XBox 360/1 if you feel the pricing model is unfair.

Type in Xbox apps behind paywall into google and away you go. Not exactly difficult, kid.

@StormyJoe said:

@misterpmedia said:

@StormyJoe said:

@kuu2 said:

@misterpmedia said:

@kuu2 said:

It is not a scam, and it has nothing to do with awareness. Amazon being behind Xbox LIVE paywall is a non issue because no one buys Live because of the streaming features as the main reason. If you have LIVE it is to play games online as its main use period. Now there are certain things that are included with LIVE but those are just sprinkles on the sunday not the ice cream.

It has lots to do with awareness, sometimes you can reel down the things you can't do with the console without having live to an Xbox gamer and you'll be surprised what reaction you get. Lol I'm glad you know what every Xbox gamer does with his/her console, jeez /s. Speaking in absolutes only highlights bias and doesn't further the point at all. I've see comments where people have let their live run dry by jumping ship to only come back to their 360 just to use some simple features, out of convenience, like the browser and have themselves locked out? Yo, you need gold for that! Lol I mean come on. People are definitely re-analysing it because now PSN can go toe to toe in features, what's left to differentiate?(inb4: boring stability retorts) Not to mention more value, and people can stop when they want to stop and still be able to use most of the console when it's done. WOWZA, fancy that, aye? Maybe you forgot about those people who may not be able to afford next months live for what ever reason(inb4: but it's only like $$$) or may consider stopping it for what ever reason and want to feel comfortable that without live their console isn't a featureless brick....which it would be.....

@Scipio8 said:

This only shows they see the Xbox as the competition, they know Sony is just dead man walking

@StormyJoe said:

@misterpmedia: Because there are just so many people out there who pay for Xbox Live so that they can use Netflix...

Again, lems seem to know a whole lot about every Xbox owner. Need to know where this hub of information can be accessed, hivemind? The sarcasm is there but it's probably true ;) and you couldn't deny it, you can still play games offline you know :P. The "you have to pay to play online anyway" retort is just laughable because you are the perfect MS customer(take that as a compliment or insult, up to you lol), that's the drone argument but maybe that's Stockholm syndrome setting in. It only gets you so far. Doesn't matter if you pay to play games online we're talking about what MS sneakily corners off in the process. inb4: PSN equivalent argument.

@FoxbatAlpha said:

Yeah because the only reason you pay $60 a year on XBOX is to watch Netflix . P don't be this ignorant.

Seeing a common theme here. The hivemind is strong. Shitbat, fight me irl.

Point to a single person on this site that buys LIVE for movie/show streaming services...........

Go ahead I will wait.

Also, who the hell pays full price for LIVE ever?????? I can usually find it for $40 and sometimes $30.

You Cows point to everything but reality when it comes to consoles.

Well, then... go find some XBox owners who complain about it. I have been on XBL since 2003 - I have never heard "it sucks that MS put Netflix behind the paywall" or "I got XBL so I could stream Netflix movies".

The only people who "complain" about it are Sony fanboys.

False. You can't possibly claim to do what anyone does with their console. You're just making yourself look stupid. Anything negative is a sonyfanboy right? I guess there's always a scapegoat when there's nothing left to argue.

Yet, you are doing the exact same thing by insinuating that there are a lot of Xbox owners who do complain or feel cheated.

There's a remedy for bitter people like you - don't buy an XBox 360/1 if you feel the pricing model is unfair.

False. I'm saying there's an equal chance that there are people who do feel cheated whereas you type for the whole xbox community as if it's fact. How you can know what every Xbox owner does with his/her is hyperbole and therefore laughable. Exactly the same as Kuu2. Once you strip away the exaggeration there's almost no argument except personal experience and bias.

And yes, people have gone for that remedy as facts show, but I wouldn't call them bitter, just more aware.

@misterpmedia said:

@StormyJoe said:

@misterpmedia said:

@StormyJoe said:

@misterpmedia& @tormentos: And you two are the perfect Sony patsies, because you both drink the kool-aid by the gallon.

• Fun fact #1 Netflix has been behind the XBL paywall since it had been on an MS console.
• Fun fact #2 - the only people who complain about it are Sony fanboys.
• Fun fact #3 - The only people who talk about XBL Gold costing $60 are Sony fanboys. I have never paid that much, nor do I know anyone who has.

Like I said, it's about awareness as I said to Kuu2, most people don't realise it and as PSN back then was a wreck I bet they never even batted an eyelid but things change.

Fun fact: your fun facts #2 and #3 aren't facts. Way to make a fool of yourself. The irony of typing out a koolaid comment while defending Live's negatives that ARE facts LOL. Those absolutes to further point, this tactic is strong within lems, either go hyperbole or don't go at all it seems. "It hasn't happened to me...therefore...it doesn't happen! " Fucking top kek. The emphasis on the sony fanboys about live definitely shows your stockholm syndrome. "no-one can ever dislike what I like!" graggrgghh!

Go find me some XBox owners who complain, then. I'll wait.

Type in Xbox apps behind paywall into google and away you go. Not exactly difficult, kid.

@StormyJoe said:

@misterpmedia said:

@StormyJoe said:

@kuu2 said:

@misterpmedia said:

@kuu2 said:

It is not a scam, and it has nothing to do with awareness. Amazon being behind Xbox LIVE paywall is a non issue because no one buys Live because of the streaming features as the main reason. If you have LIVE it is to play games online as its main use period. Now there are certain things that are included with LIVE but those are just sprinkles on the sunday not the ice cream.

It has lots to do with awareness, sometimes you can reel down the things you can't do with the console without having live to an Xbox gamer and you'll be surprised what reaction you get. Lol I'm glad you know what every Xbox gamer does with his/her console, jeez /s. Speaking in absolutes only highlights bias and doesn't further the point at all. I've see comments where people have let their live run dry by jumping ship to only come back to their 360 just to use some simple features, out of convenience, like the browser and have themselves locked out? Yo, you need gold for that! Lol I mean come on. People are definitely re-analysing it because now PSN can go toe to toe in features, what's left to differentiate?(inb4: boring stability retorts) Not to mention more value, and people can stop when they want to stop and still be able to use most of the console when it's done. WOWZA, fancy that, aye? Maybe you forgot about those people who may not be able to afford next months live for what ever reason(inb4: but it's only like $$$) or may consider stopping it for what ever reason and want to feel comfortable that without live their console isn't a featureless brick....which it would be.....

@Scipio8 said:

This only shows they see the Xbox as the competition, they know Sony is just dead man walking

@StormyJoe said:

@misterpmedia: Because there are just so many people out there who pay for Xbox Live so that they can use Netflix...

Again, lems seem to know a whole lot about every Xbox owner. Need to know where this hub of information can be accessed, hivemind? The sarcasm is there but it's probably true ;) and you couldn't deny it, you can still play games offline you know :P. The "you have to pay to play online anyway" retort is just laughable because you are the perfect MS customer(take that as a compliment or insult, up to you lol), that's the drone argument but maybe that's Stockholm syndrome setting in. It only gets you so far. Doesn't matter if you pay to play games online we're talking about what MS sneakily corners off in the process. inb4: PSN equivalent argument.

@FoxbatAlpha said:

Yeah because the only reason you pay $60 a year on XBOX is to watch Netflix . P don't be this ignorant.

Seeing a common theme here. The hivemind is strong. Shitbat, fight me irl.

Point to a single person on this site that buys LIVE for movie/show streaming services...........

Go ahead I will wait.

Also, who the hell pays full price for LIVE ever?????? I can usually find it for $40 and sometimes $30.

You Cows point to everything but reality when it comes to consoles.

Well, then... go find some XBox owners who complain about it. I have been on XBL since 2003 - I have never heard "it sucks that MS put Netflix behind the paywall" or "I got XBL so I could stream Netflix movies".

The only people who "complain" about it are Sony fanboys.

False. You can't possibly claim to do what anyone does with their console. You're just making yourself look stupid. Anything negative is a sonyfanboy right? I guess there's always a scapegoat when there's nothing left to argue.

Yet, you are doing the exact same thing by insinuating that there are a lot of Xbox owners who do complain or feel cheated.

There's a remedy for bitter people like you - don't buy an XBox 360/1 if you feel the pricing model is unfair.

False. I'm saying there's an equal chance that there are people who do feel cheated whereas you type for the whole xbox community as if it's fact. How you can know what every Xbox owner does with his/her is hyperbole and therefore laughable. Exactly the same as Kuu2. Once you strip away the exaggeration there's almost no argument except personal experience and bias.

And yes, people have gone for that remedy as facts show, but I wouldn't call them bitter, just more aware.

I did, and all but one of the links on the page were either describing what was behind the paywall, not this endless wave of angry Xbox owners.

The PS4 is outselling the XB1 because the PS4 is $100 less. Sorry to burst your bubble, but that is the main reason. It's certainly not because you don't have to pay for PSN+ to watch Netflix...

@StormyJoe said:

@misterpmedia said:

@StormyJoe said:

@misterpmedia said:

@StormyJoe said:

@misterpmedia& @tormentos: And you two are the perfect Sony patsies, because you both drink the kool-aid by the gallon.

• Fun fact #1 Netflix has been behind the XBL paywall since it had been on an MS console.
• Fun fact #2 - the only people who complain about it are Sony fanboys.
• Fun fact #3 - The only people who talk about XBL Gold costing $60 are Sony fanboys. I have never paid that much, nor do I know anyone who has.

Like I said, it's about awareness as I said to Kuu2, most people don't realise it and as PSN back then was a wreck I bet they never even batted an eyelid but things change.

Fun fact: your fun facts #2 and #3 aren't facts. Way to make a fool of yourself. The irony of typing out a koolaid comment while defending Live's negatives that ARE facts LOL. Those absolutes to further point, this tactic is strong within lems, either go hyperbole or don't go at all it seems. "It hasn't happened to me...therefore...it doesn't happen! " Fucking top kek. The emphasis on the sony fanboys about live definitely shows your stockholm syndrome. "no-one can ever dislike what I like!" graggrgghh!

Go find me some XBox owners who complain, then. I'll wait.

Type in Xbox apps behind paywall into google and away you go. Not exactly difficult, kid.

@StormyJoe said:

@misterpmedia said:

@StormyJoe said:

@kuu2 said:

@misterpmedia said:

@kuu2 said:

It is not a scam, and it has nothing to do with awareness. Amazon being behind Xbox LIVE paywall is a non issue because no one buys Live because of the streaming features as the main reason. If you have LIVE it is to play games online as its main use period. Now there are certain things that are included with LIVE but those are just sprinkles on the sunday not the ice cream.

It has lots to do with awareness, sometimes you can reel down the things you can't do with the console without having live to an Xbox gamer and you'll be surprised what reaction you get. Lol I'm glad you know what every Xbox gamer does with his/her console, jeez /s. Speaking in absolutes only highlights bias and doesn't further the point at all. I've see comments where people have let their live run dry by jumping ship to only come back to their 360 just to use some simple features, out of convenience, like the browser and have themselves locked out? Yo, you need gold for that! Lol I mean come on. People are definitely re-analysing it because now PSN can go toe to toe in features, what's left to differentiate?(inb4: boring stability retorts) Not to mention more value, and people can stop when they want to stop and still be able to use most of the console when it's done. WOWZA, fancy that, aye? Maybe you forgot about those people who may not be able to afford next months live for what ever reason(inb4: but it's only like $$$) or may consider stopping it for what ever reason and want to feel comfortable that without live their console isn't a featureless brick....which it would be.....

@Scipio8 said:

This only shows they see the Xbox as the competition, they know Sony is just dead man walking

@StormyJoe said:

@misterpmedia: Because there are just so many people out there who pay for Xbox Live so that they can use Netflix...

Again, lems seem to know a whole lot about every Xbox owner. Need to know where this hub of information can be accessed, hivemind? The sarcasm is there but it's probably true ;) and you couldn't deny it, you can still play games offline you know :P. The "you have to pay to play online anyway" retort is just laughable because you are the perfect MS customer(take that as a compliment or insult, up to you lol), that's the drone argument but maybe that's Stockholm syndrome setting in. It only gets you so far. Doesn't matter if you pay to play games online we're talking about what MS sneakily corners off in the process. inb4: PSN equivalent argument.

@FoxbatAlpha said:

Yeah because the only reason you pay $60 a year on XBOX is to watch Netflix . P don't be this ignorant.

Seeing a common theme here. The hivemind is strong. Shitbat, fight me irl.

Point to a single person on this site that buys LIVE for movie/show streaming services...........

Go ahead I will wait.

Also, who the hell pays full price for LIVE ever?????? I can usually find it for $40 and sometimes $30.

You Cows point to everything but reality when it comes to consoles.

Well, then... go find some XBox owners who complain about it. I have been on XBL since 2003 - I have never heard "it sucks that MS put Netflix behind the paywall" or "I got XBL so I could stream Netflix movies".

The only people who "complain" about it are Sony fanboys.

False. You can't possibly claim to do what anyone does with their console. You're just making yourself look stupid. Anything negative is a sonyfanboy right? I guess there's always a scapegoat when there's nothing left to argue.

Yet, you are doing the exact same thing by insinuating that there are a lot of Xbox owners who do complain or feel cheated.

There's a remedy for bitter people like you - don't buy an XBox 360/1 if you feel the pricing model is unfair.

False. I'm saying there's an equal chance that there are people who do feel cheated whereas you type for the whole xbox community as if it's fact. How you can know what every Xbox owner does with his/her is hyperbole and therefore laughable. Exactly the same as Kuu2. Once you strip away the exaggeration there's almost no argument except personal experience and bias.

And yes, people have gone for that remedy as facts show, but I wouldn't call them bitter, just more aware.

I did, and all but one of the links on the page were either describing what was behind the paywall, not this endless wave of angry Xbox owners.

The PS4 is outselling the XB1 because the PS4 is $100 less. Sorry to burst your bubble, but that is the main reason. It's certainly not because you don't have to pay for PSN+ to watch Netflix...

Confirmed for not googling.

No bubble burst as that's probably not just the only reason. Sorry to crush your assumption. I can guarantee apps not behind the paywall is definitely one of the pros. ;)

@misterpmedia said:

@StormyJoe said:

@misterpmedia said:

@StormyJoe said:

@misterpmedia said:

@StormyJoe said:

@misterpmedia& @tormentos: And you two are the perfect Sony patsies, because you both drink the kool-aid by the gallon.

• Fun fact #1 Netflix has been behind the XBL paywall since it had been on an MS console.
• Fun fact #2 - the only people who complain about it are Sony fanboys.
• Fun fact #3 - The only people who talk about XBL Gold costing $60 are Sony fanboys. I have never paid that much, nor do I know anyone who has.

Like I said, it's about awareness as I said to Kuu2, most people don't realise it and as PSN back then was a wreck I bet they never even batted an eyelid but things change.

Fun fact: your fun facts #2 and #3 aren't facts. Way to make a fool of yourself. The irony of typing out a koolaid comment while defending Live's negatives that ARE facts LOL. Those absolutes to further point, this tactic is strong within lems, either go hyperbole or don't go at all it seems. "It hasn't happened to me...therefore...it doesn't happen! " Fucking top kek. The emphasis on the sony fanboys about live definitely shows your stockholm syndrome. "no-one can ever dislike what I like!" graggrgghh!

Go find me some XBox owners who complain, then. I'll wait.

Type in Xbox apps behind paywall into google and away you go. Not exactly difficult, kid.

@StormyJoe said:

@misterpmedia said:

@StormyJoe said:

@kuu2 said:

@misterpmedia said:

@kuu2 said:

It is not a scam, and it has nothing to do with awareness. Amazon being behind Xbox LIVE paywall is a non issue because no one buys Live because of the streaming features as the main reason. If you have LIVE it is to play games online as its main use period. Now there are certain things that are included with LIVE but those are just sprinkles on the sunday not the ice cream.

It has lots to do with awareness, sometimes you can reel down the things you can't do with the console without having live to an Xbox gamer and you'll be surprised what reaction you get. Lol I'm glad you know what every Xbox gamer does with his/her console, jeez /s. Speaking in absolutes only highlights bias and doesn't further the point at all. I've see comments where people have let their live run dry by jumping ship to only come back to their 360 just to use some simple features, out of convenience, like the browser and have themselves locked out? Yo, you need gold for that! Lol I mean come on. People are definitely re-analysing it because now PSN can go toe to toe in features, what's left to differentiate?(inb4: boring stability retorts) Not to mention more value, and people can stop when they want to stop and still be able to use most of the console when it's done. WOWZA, fancy that, aye? Maybe you forgot about those people who may not be able to afford next months live for what ever reason(inb4: but it's only like $$$) or may consider stopping it for what ever reason and want to feel comfortable that without live their console isn't a featureless brick....which it would be.....

@Scipio8 said:

This only shows they see the Xbox as the competition, they know Sony is just dead man walking

@StormyJoe said:

@misterpmedia: Because there are just so many people out there who pay for Xbox Live so that they can use Netflix...

Again, lems seem to know a whole lot about every Xbox owner. Need to know where this hub of information can be accessed, hivemind? The sarcasm is there but it's probably true ;) and you couldn't deny it, you can still play games offline you know :P. The "you have to pay to play online anyway" retort is just laughable because you are the perfect MS customer(take that as a compliment or insult, up to you lol), that's the drone argument but maybe that's Stockholm syndrome setting in. It only gets you so far. Doesn't matter if you pay to play games online we're talking about what MS sneakily corners off in the process. inb4: PSN equivalent argument.

@FoxbatAlpha said:

Yeah because the only reason you pay $60 a year on XBOX is to watch Netflix . P don't be this ignorant.

Seeing a common theme here. The hivemind is strong. Shitbat, fight me irl.

Point to a single person on this site that buys LIVE for movie/show streaming services...........

Go ahead I will wait.

Also, who the hell pays full price for LIVE ever?????? I can usually find it for $40 and sometimes $30.

You Cows point to everything but reality when it comes to consoles.

Well, then... go find some XBox owners who complain about it. I have been on XBL since 2003 - I have never heard "it sucks that MS put Netflix behind the paywall" or "I got XBL so I could stream Netflix movies".

The only people who "complain" about it are Sony fanboys.

False. You can't possibly claim to do what anyone does with their console. You're just making yourself look stupid. Anything negative is a sonyfanboy right? I guess there's always a scapegoat when there's nothing left to argue.

Yet, you are doing the exact same thing by insinuating that there are a lot of Xbox owners who do complain or feel cheated.

There's a remedy for bitter people like you - don't buy an XBox 360/1 if you feel the pricing model is unfair.

False. I'm saying there's an equal chance that there are people who do feel cheated whereas you type for the whole xbox community as if it's fact. How you can know what every Xbox owner does with his/her is hyperbole and therefore laughable. Exactly the same as Kuu2. Once you strip away the exaggeration there's almost no argument except personal experience and bias.

And yes, people have gone for that remedy as facts show, but I wouldn't call them bitter, just more aware.

I did, and all but one of the links on the page were either describing what was behind the paywall, not this endless wave of angry Xbox owners.

The PS4 is outselling the XB1 because the PS4 is $100 less. Sorry to burst your bubble, but that is the main reason. It's certainly not because you don't have to pay for PSN+ to watch Netflix...

Confirmed for not googling.

No bubble burst as that's probably not just the only reason. Sorry to crush your assumption. I can guarantee apps not behind the paywall is definitely one of the pros. ;)

Bullsh*t, I googled it right after you posted it.

Whatever helps you sleep at night. I can tell you are worried about XB1 beating your precious PS4., as I just checked your posting history and virtually every thread you have created has been an anti-XB1 or anti-Microosoft thread. Very sad, indeed. You should just get an XB1 - that much anxiety isn't good for you.

Online gaming has been free for ages and still is in the majority of devices and those who charge for it are ripping people off and that includes sony.

You don't have to pay for online gaming on Vita,tablets,cell phones,PC,PS3 and still you can use those features free.

So those $60 for online don't justify hiding the apps.

You don't have to pay for apps on PSN nice try dude this thread isn't about online gaming,which i already say is a rip off,this thread is about hiding apps under a pay wall and features to like game recoding which in no way depend of MS online structure.

So yeah i would only pay $95 for netflix since is not hidden under a pay wall.

But then you would not be able to play next gen games with a $99 media streamer.

Hell sony allow free to play game to be play online free without PSN+,how any of those be call free to play on xbox one if you have to sink $60 for online play.?

Lets see i can.

Play PC vs PS4 which instantly boost community numbers for any game.

Party chat work across platforms,on xbox brand this was a big deal for people like you and other lemmings who used party chat as an excuse to justify those $60 a year people like clone01,sts106mats,delta,William and many others did,so yeah having it cross platform is even better.

Free to play games are really free to play,on Elder scroll online you need to double dip on xbox one,on PS4 you don't have to unless change recently,games that are free to play work online on PS4 without PSN+.

I already name 3 things over xbox live oh and one you people hyped to hell and beyond,oh and still cheaper to.

But wait PSN+ give you games all months discounts and 1 account work on Vita,PS3 and PS4 that's that's unbeatable by any other console.

1-Yes and online play as well doesn't quite justify paying for it period,those apps are free and MS hide them under a pay wall to make xbox live seem like a better value when in reality it really isn't.

2-The hell only sony fans complain about this many 360 owners did it change nothing because it was to late for many is pay or fu** off and get nothing,netflix wasn't available at the xbox 360 launch,so yeah people tho bough the unit never knew apps would be hidden under a pay wall.

3-XBL is freaking $60 if you get deal fine,you can also get an xbox one under $500 doesn't mean $500 isn't the retail suggested price period.

And since you accuse me of drinking kool-aid by the galon you blind biased buffoon,for me paying for online play is a rip off no maters who does it period that been sony or MS,unlike you who are kissing MS ass on this matter and defending MS stupid policies of hiding even hardware features you already pay and which you are suppose to use free like game recording,so you pay $500 for an over price weak console that doesn't even allow you to use your own hardware which you already pay MS big money for without paying $60 more on top.

Now how is that not drinking kool-aid by the gallons,at least i know sony is ripping people off by charging for online play,you can't even admit this to be bad...lol

@StormyJoe said:

@misterpmedia said:

@StormyJoe said:

@misterpmedia said:

@StormyJoe said:

@misterpmedia said:

@StormyJoe said:

@misterpmedia& @tormentos: And you two are the perfect Sony patsies, because you both drink the kool-aid by the gallon.

• Fun fact #1 Netflix has been behind the XBL paywall since it had been on an MS console.
• Fun fact #2 - the only people who complain about it are Sony fanboys.
• Fun fact #3 - The only people who talk about XBL Gold costing $60 are Sony fanboys. I have never paid that much, nor do I know anyone who has.

Like I said, it's about awareness as I said to Kuu2, most people don't realise it and as PSN back then was a wreck I bet they never even batted an eyelid but things change.

Fun fact: your fun facts #2 and #3 aren't facts. Way to make a fool of yourself. The irony of typing out a koolaid comment while defending Live's negatives that ARE facts LOL. Those absolutes to further point, this tactic is strong within lems, either go hyperbole or don't go at all it seems. "It hasn't happened to me...therefore...it doesn't happen! " Fucking top kek. The emphasis on the sony fanboys about live definitely shows your stockholm syndrome. "no-one can ever dislike what I like!" graggrgghh!

Go find me some XBox owners who complain, then. I'll wait.

Type in Xbox apps behind paywall into google and away you go. Not exactly difficult, kid.

@StormyJoe said:

@misterpmedia said:

@StormyJoe said:

@kuu2 said:

@misterpmedia said:

@kuu2 said:

It is not a scam, and it has nothing to do with awareness. Amazon being behind Xbox LIVE paywall is a non issue because no one buys Live because of the streaming features as the main reason. If you have LIVE it is to play games online as its main use period. Now there are certain things that are included with LIVE but those are just sprinkles on the sunday not the ice cream.

It has lots to do with awareness, sometimes you can reel down the things you can't do with the console without having live to an Xbox gamer and you'll be surprised what reaction you get. Lol I'm glad you know what every Xbox gamer does with his/her console, jeez /s. Speaking in absolutes only highlights bias and doesn't further the point at all. I've see comments where people have let their live run dry by jumping ship to only come back to their 360 just to use some simple features, out of convenience, like the browser and have themselves locked out? Yo, you need gold for that! Lol I mean come on. People are definitely re-analysing it because now PSN can go toe to toe in features, what's left to differentiate?(inb4: boring stability retorts) Not to mention more value, and people can stop when they want to stop and still be able to use most of the console when it's done. WOWZA, fancy that, aye? Maybe you forgot about those people who may not be able to afford next months live for what ever reason(inb4: but it's only like $$$) or may consider stopping it for what ever reason and want to feel comfortable that without live their console isn't a featureless brick....which it would be.....

@Scipio8 said:

This only shows they see the Xbox as the competition, they know Sony is just dead man walking

@StormyJoe said:

@misterpmedia: Because there are just so many people out there who pay for Xbox Live so that they can use Netflix...

Again, lems seem to know a whole lot about every Xbox owner. Need to know where this hub of information can be accessed, hivemind? The sarcasm is there but it's probably true ;) and you couldn't deny it, you can still play games offline you know :P. The "you have to pay to play online anyway" retort is just laughable because you are the perfect MS customer(take that as a compliment or insult, up to you lol), that's the drone argument but maybe that's Stockholm syndrome setting in. It only gets you so far. Doesn't matter if you pay to play games online we're talking about what MS sneakily corners off in the process. inb4: PSN equivalent argument.

@FoxbatAlpha said:

Yeah because the only reason you pay $60 a year on XBOX is to watch Netflix . P don't be this ignorant.

Seeing a common theme here. The hivemind is strong. Shitbat, fight me irl.

Point to a single person on this site that buys LIVE for movie/show streaming services...........

Go ahead I will wait.

Also, who the hell pays full price for LIVE ever?????? I can usually find it for $40 and sometimes $30.

You Cows point to everything but reality when it comes to consoles.

Well, then... go find some XBox owners who complain about it. I have been on XBL since 2003 - I have never heard "it sucks that MS put Netflix behind the paywall" or "I got XBL so I could stream Netflix movies".

The only people who "complain" about it are Sony fanboys.

False. You can't possibly claim to do what anyone does with their console. You're just making yourself look stupid. Anything negative is a sonyfanboy right? I guess there's always a scapegoat when there's nothing left to argue.

Yet, you are doing the exact same thing by insinuating that there are a lot of Xbox owners who do complain or feel cheated.

There's a remedy for bitter people like you - don't buy an XBox 360/1 if you feel the pricing model is unfair.

False. I'm saying there's an equal chance that there are people who do feel cheated whereas you type for the whole xbox community as if it's fact. How you can know what every Xbox owner does with his/her is hyperbole and therefore laughable. Exactly the same as Kuu2. Once you strip away the exaggeration there's almost no argument except personal experience and bias.

And yes, people have gone for that remedy as facts show, but I wouldn't call them bitter, just more aware.

I did, and all but one of the links on the page were either describing what was behind the paywall, not this endless wave of angry Xbox owners.

The PS4 is outselling the XB1 because the PS4 is $100 less. Sorry to burst your bubble, but that is the main reason. It's certainly not because you don't have to pay for PSN+ to watch Netflix...

Confirmed for not googling.

No bubble burst as that's probably not just the only reason. Sorry to crush your assumption. I can guarantee apps not behind the paywall is definitely one of the pros. ;)

Bullsh*t, I googled it right after you posted it.

Whatever helps you sleep at night. I can tell you are worried about XB1 beating your precious PS4., as I just checked your posting history and virtually every thread you have created has been an anti-XB1 or anti-Microosoft thread.Very sad, indeed. You should just get an XB1 - that much anxiety isn't good for you.

I struck out the bullshit personal jabs because it seems that's all lems can do when they don't have much to say. You can look at my post history all you want kid, antagonising lems is fun. A lot like others antagonise other factions, it isn't going to affect me one bit by assuming I'm worried have anxiety, if that makes you sleep at night then enjoy being a typical keyboard warrior with no argument.

But seriously you should check out the google results.

Are fanboys still talking shit about XBLG fees.. after Sony literally shoved a giant penis in the cows rectum's this gen with PSN+ subs?

..gotta love the SW's.. lol

@sts106mat said:

@misterpmedia said:

@StormyJoe said:

antagonising lems is fun.

But seriously you should check out the google results.

Hmm, I googled that and this came up.

Follow the chart and see which answer you get

Ignored, nothing to do with the conversation. Feel free to contribute when you're ready sts, what happened to ignoring me though aye? :)

.."you blind biased buffoon..."

I'm going have to incorporate that ownage in my conversations today.

@sts106mat said:

@misterpmedia said:

@sts106mat said:

@misterpmedia said:

@StormyJoe said:

antagonising lems is fun.

But seriously you should check out the google results.

Hmm, I googled that and this came up.

Follow the chart and see which answer you get

Ignored, nothing to do with the conversation. Feel free to contribute when you're ready sts, what happened to ignoring me though aye? :)

Hmm, got a feeling you are butthurt. I am able to ignore/respond as I see fit.

Ignored

lol is that seriously your reply? The butthurt comment is the generic "umad?, the pre-teens of the internet are pleased, but expected among simple minded lems with no depth or arguments worth typing. Not surprising from you Sts. Un-ignoring means you just can't help but comment me ;). So you will again eventually.

@sts106mat said:

@misterpmedia said:

@sts106mat said:

@misterpmedia said:

@sts106mat said:

@misterpmedia said:

@StormyJoe said:

antagonising lems is fun.

But seriously you should check out the google results.

Hmm, I googled that and this came up.

Follow the chart and see which answer you get

Ignored, nothing to do with the conversation. Feel free to contribute when you're ready sts, what happened to ignoring me though aye? :)

Hmm, got a feeling you are butthurt. I am able to ignore/respond as I see fit.

Ignored

lol is that seriously your reply? The butthurt comment is the generic "umad?, the pre-teens of the internet are pleased, but expected among simple minded lems with no depth or arguments worth typing. Not surprising from you Sts. Un-ignoring means you just can't help but comment me ;). So you will again eventually.

yes, let the butthurt flow, your tears are delicious.....hows that 8/10?

How's stripping yourself down to basic lem status with these replies? Thought I was ignored? You put Ignored as the last word. Having trouble there, sonny? Inb4: more generic responses that make you look foolish lol.

It's not ripping me off because as far as I'm concerned, I get a lot for that $5 a month (well, $3.25). And, there are more features to come. I don't think the online fee is that big of a deal, sorry. I won't complain paying $4=$5 a month for PSN+, either.

You may get your panties in a bunch about the price of a McDonald's value meal, but I don't.

@sts106mat said:

@misterpmedia said:

@sts106mat said:

How's resulting yourself down to basic lem status with these replies? Thought I was ignored? You put Ignored as the last word. Having trouble there, sonny? Inb4: more generic responses that make you look foolish lol.

Wha? you think someone who takes on the persona of joke online blogger in order to bash a piece of plastic deserves decent responses ?

lol another example of how lems always take it personal when they have no arguments or nothing relevant to say. The irony is when you try to make a point after acting like a typical pre-teen 4channer. How about address the point and not me. I've already deemed you incapable but I'm waiting to be surprised.

Waiting to be ignored again when you spit out your dummy.

@sts106mat said:

@misterpmedia said:

@sts106mat said:

@misterpmedia said:

@sts106mat said:

How's resulting yourself down to basic lem status with these replies? Thought I was ignored? You put Ignored as the last word. Having trouble there, sonny? Inb4: more generic responses that make you look foolish lol.

Wha? you think someone who takes on the persona of joke online blogger in order to bash a piece of plastic deserves decent responses ?

lol another example of how lems always take it personal when they have no arguments or nothing relevant to say. The irony is when you try to make a point after acting like a typical pre-teen 4channer. How about address the point and not me. I've already deemed you incapable but I'm waiting to be surprised.

haven't even bothered to read the OP.

Case closed. No further questions your honour.

@sts106mat said:

@misterpmedia said:

@sts106mat said:

@misterpmedia said:

@sts106mat said:

@misterpmedia said:

@sts106mat said:

How's resulting yourself down to basic lem status with these replies? Thought I was ignored? You put Ignored as the last word. Having trouble there, sonny? Inb4: more generic responses that make you look foolish lol.

Wha? you think someone who takes on the persona of joke online blogger in order to bash a piece of plastic deserves decent responses ?

lol another example of how lems always take it personal when they have no arguments or nothing relevant to say. The irony is when you try to make a point after acting like a typical pre-teen 4channer. How about address the point and not me. I've already deemed you incapable but I'm waiting to be surprised.

haven't even bothered to read the OP.

Case closed. No further questions your honour.

yeah, case closed.

nobody takes you seriously, you obviously just crave human attention, so we put a little effort in here and there to help you out.

You take me seriously enough to get so upset that you end up ignoring me lol. Now who's the clown. You realise craving human attention online is kinda an oxymoron? Just because I reply after you reply doesn't make you a psychiatrist, sorry kiddo.

@sts106mat said:

@misterpmedia said:

@sts106mat said:

@misterpmedia said:

@sts106mat said:

@misterpmedia said:

@sts106mat said:

@misterpmedia said:

@sts106mat said:

How's resulting yourself down to basic lem status with these replies? Thought I was ignored? You put Ignored as the last word. Having trouble there, sonny? Inb4: more generic responses that make you look foolish lol.

Wha? you think someone who takes on the persona of joke online blogger in order to bash a piece of plastic deserves decent responses ?

lol another example of how lems always take it personal when they have no arguments or nothing relevant to say. The irony is when you try to make a point after acting like a typical pre-teen 4channer. How about address the point and not me. I've already deemed you incapable but I'm waiting to be surprised.

haven't even bothered to read the OP.

Case closed. No further questions your honour.

yeah, case closed.

nobody takes you seriously, you obviously just crave human attention, so we put a little effort in here and there to help you out.

You take me seriously enough to get so upset that you end up ignoring me lol. Now who's the clown. You realise craving human attention online is kinda an oxymoron? Just because I reply after you reply doesn't make you a psychiatrist, sorry kiddo.

I dont take you seriously, you are a joke. I am not a psychiatrist, nor do i claim to be one. but why else would you pretend to be someone else from the internet and post shite all day long?

and how does that make you feel? lol What are you even talking about now? You are in a serious tizzy right now, you must be scraping up what ever you can think to type back to me. Who am I pretending to be? lol The lady in my avatar? xD There is no-one or any person called misterpmedia, sorry to disappoint dude LOL. Do you even know how the internet and forums works? Sts, seriously what is the matter with you? Genuinely worried. You need to stop taking this site so personally. It's just banter, and it's great fun while I'm playing windowed Diablo 2.

http://kotaku.com/5939245/gold-vs-plus-how-sony-is-making-a-mockery-of-xbox-live/all

http://www.neowin.net/news/microsoft-stop-forcing-xbox-live-gold-to-use-netflix

Not only fans have complain but also sites have been wondering why MS still does it for years,and i own a 360 so yeah it is a shore that you can't do nothing with it without live,because even demos which use to be deliver across all the user base on the start was change and so that live owners got demos earlier,which was a kick on the face of those who didn't pay.

How on 2012 Netflix beat the xbox 360 as main console for streaming when the xbox 360 is advertise as the more online oriented console and when netfilx hit live 1 year before it hit PSN is a clear indication of how MS policies were affecting netflix on xbox 360,in fact the xbox 360 had a bigger user base on 2012 than the PS3,hell at times the PS3 even topped the PC as well.

And while you continue to defend MS money sucking tricks to force people into the service stuff like this has been posted by the media.

A lot of gamers were also about as angry as feminists at a Maxim photo-shoot when they found out that you can't even use the built-in web browser without paying extra to do so.That's right, stuff you can do for free on your PC requires a fee on the Xbox One. That's the future, folks.

What can you do with the Xbox One once you plug it in? Nothing. Nata. Zip. Nilch. You can't play games, you can't watch movies, you can't even watch TV on your TV through your Xbox One.

http://www.cinemablend.com/games/Xbox-One-Restricts-Nearly-Every-Feature-Xbox-Live-Gold-61007.html

You can't use youtube,you can't use IE you can't use,skype,you and like that bold part say you can't even watch TV on your TV through your xbox one which in no fu**ing way use MS online infrastructure and use the damn hardware you already pay for.

So you pay more because the xbox one has HDMI in so you can hook up your cable box to it,oh wait without paying yearly you can't even use HDMI WHAT THE FU** MAN.

And you accuse us of drinking kool-aid by the gallon and you can't even admit this is a horrible practice by MS,you are a sucker that fall for that over priced console with media features that require a damn fee even to use your hardware like video recording and cable box pass which have nothing to do with online access and are been done by the hardware you already pay.

How the fu** can you justify video recording ad HDMI pass been behind a damn pay wall.? How Those features have nothing to do with xbox live they are done by hardware,and TV pass is heavily advertise,MS say on its ads that some features may require subscription fact is all of them do but snap,but then again what is the point of having snap if you can't use any of the features if you don't have live.

The xbox one without xbox live is a brick that play games and blu-rays.

Well the small minded do get distracted easily.

How is that self owned, I willingly come back to this when the notification appears, plus you're so damn cute to think that you're even slightly making any sense with this discussion we're having. Like your concept of 'ignoring', I can come back to this at will. ;)

Nice try though.

Back to the pre-teen Tourette's. Nice. No further questions ;).

Which i also call a rip off since day one.? But hey since you liked paying you can't complain about sony charging because well it would be hypocrite on your part.

But then again this thread isn't about online gaming is about apps which sony doesn't charge for my troll friend nice spin..

No you get sh** and live is not $5 a month is $7.99 if you buy it by month,other wise is $25 for 3 months and $60 for 1 year.

The PS4 cost $1 dollar a day i just brake the price over a 400 days period and presto..

I would surely i own PSN+ now and i don't own a PS4,but that is because i see value on it game wise on PS3,hiding online play on PS4 under a pay wall doesn't add value in any way to PSN+ in my eyes that use to be free and still is in most platforms that support it,Sony just got a damn window to charge for it from MS,and no site could flame them because MS has been doing it for 11 years,but my self is another 2 cents i can.

Genuinely, take care. Hope you didn't have an episode in public, I know it was hard.

@Animal-Mother:

A little defensive arnt you,you went a little off topic there at the end.I dont care about the price of psn or what games Sony rented to you they locked multiplayer behind a paywall,I'll say it again so you dont miss it, a paywall,get it?I love how Cows up until E3 thought paying for multiplayer was the most evil thing that could happen but they dont any more.Paywalls are bad unless its Sony's.Its stupid both companies lock features behind a paywall,you cant defend Sony here,you Cows are paying into a money grab too and you'll pay the next one Sony comes up with.

No it's just stupid. Also I always payed for XBL i've been a member for 10 years now and don't regret it. But regardless it's a stupid decision that turns off some consumers. It's was also an incredibly smart move on Microsofts part for the extra bank, sony took notes and did the same thing. Except they didn't hide applications behind a pay wall no matter how you spin it.

http://www.extremetech.com/gaming/163496-xbox-one-will-lock-almost-every-online-feature-behind-a-paywall-the-ps4-wont

oh.. ok

So now that Sony is shafting it's previous userbase between the buttocks.. the new argument is that.. "well at least Nextflix..ect..ect.. is not behind a pay wall"

oh.. ok

So now that Sony is shafting it's previous userbase between the buttocks.. the new argument is that.. "well at least Nextflix..ect..ect.. is not behind a pay wall"

The stupidity is strong in this one.

@OhSnapitz said:

oh.. ok

So now that Sony is shafting it's previous userbase between the buttocks.. the new argument is that.. "well at least Nextflix..ect..ect.. is not behind a pay wall"

Sony is still the lesser of the two evils. No matter how you slice it. The bone is a brick without Live, the PS4 isn't without PS+.

$43

LOL

I always laugh when people like you call other people stupid.

Stupid and Ignorant. Damn.

@misterpmedia said:

@OhSnapitz said:

oh.. ok

So now that Sony is shafting it's previous userbase between the buttocks.. the new argument is that.. "well at least Nextflix..ect..ect.. is not behind a pay wall"

Sony is still the lesser of the two evils. No matter how you slice it. The bone is a brick without Live, the PS4 isn't without PS+.

Oooh ok. So Sony fans are getting a reach around. Got it!