Valve is the new EA?

Welcome to the new internet trend.

Before E3 2009 Valve was to be a company PC players used to love.

Enter L4D2 (by the way does that not reminds you of R2D2 ?)

Now Valve stepped on and spit in everything PC gamers used to love about Valve.

Is it not funny how a company can ruin their reputation and turn it around from 100% to -100% in one day ?

Valve is now the company gamers love to hate.

It would be funny to see how the buisness development at Valve will justify this move ? Quickly selling few game copies , but in turn ruining company reputation and destroy long term revenues?

Do you think a gaming company can ever recover from this ?

Lobo

Before E3 2009 Valve was to be a company PC players used to love.

Lobotomist

This is the MINIMUM stuff you will get in L4D2:

- 5 New Campaigns
- 5 New Versus Campaigns
- Lots of new Survival maps
- A whole new game mode
- Tweaked current special infected to make them more deadly
- New infected such as the Wandering Witch or the Charger (If not more)
- 4 New Characters
- Hours and Hours of new conversations between the new characters.
- New common infected
- Different ammo types
- New Melee weapons
- New guns in general
- A whole STORYLINE this time round, and not just random "movies"
- Probably a new difficulty level
- New finales and crescendo events
- Lots of game fixes and bug fixes and common mistakes fixed from the 1st L4D such as no more Shiva stacking, no more closetting and so on.
- Made the game more brutal and gory
- And probably lots of other super cool features that we would all love.

Oh noez this is teh new Madden!

OP your argument is vague - so just to re-cap what is happening with Valve?

Valve is known for good DLC, was it hard for them to give thoes stuff free? The reason why i bought Left 4 Dead, not Call of Duty 4 was because i knew Valve cares about us, not releasing same game every year with 2 new things and asking full price

Basically Valve sold original L4D - a very content limited , unfinished and still experimental game - for 50$

Under false pretense that they will continue supporting it with new maps, weapons, game mods and gameplay tweaks.
Same as they did with Counter Strike, DOD, TF2 ...

But in fact (which is now shockingly revealed) Valve started to make L4D2 in same moment they released L4D1.So instead of working on fixing the just released game, they immidiately started planning to sell the FIXED game as NEW game.

L4D2 is what Valve promised to be free updates to L4D, all rolled in one package.

Now if that doesnt irk you. And if you payed for L4D and still want to buy L4D2. Fine for you.

But just read forums all over internet and you will notice lot of angry posts. This was unusual for Valve.

All i am saying they lost a lot of rep, and it will hurt them much more than what they will earn from L4D2 (that will never reach even 1/4 of L4D sales)

so just because the mistake they are doing with L4d2 all of a sudden valve is evil?

Valve like every other company cares about money but valve prove they do care about the consumer to( more so than other companies like EA although i start changing my mind about EA after they drop the DRM thing). This is the first major blow valve did so i'm gonna let it go ( infact i'm a bit excited about l4d2 since i missed the 1st one)

Basically Valve sold original L4D - a very content limited , unfinished and still experimental game - for 50$

Under false pretense that they will continue supporting it with new maps, weapons, game mods and gameplay tweaks.
Same as they did with Counter Strike, DOD, TF2 ...

But in fact (which is now shockingly revealed) Valve started to make L4D2 in same moment they released L4D1.So instead of working on fixing the just released game, they immidiately started planning to sell the FIXED game as NEW game.

L4D2 is what Valve promised to be free updates to L4D, all rolled in one package.

Now if that doesnt irk you. And if you payed for L4D and still want to buy L4D2. Fine for you.

But just read forums all over internet and you will notice lot of angry posts. This was unusual for Valve.

All i am saying they lost a lot of rep, and it will hurt them much more than what they will earn from L4D2 (that will never reach even 1/4 of L4D sales)

Lobotomist

You seem to have missed a lot of free updates then. Paste from the Steam forums:

Firstly, let me start off with the original release of L4D. It came with 2 versus campaigns and 4 single player campaigns. The only thing that was missing from the game was the other 2 versus campaigns. Now, at the time, Valve had stated that they did not include those versus campaigns due to balance issues. They were never meant to be part of the original game.

COMMON MISTAKE #1: Many users claim that the game was "unfinished" because it was missing 2 versus campaigns. THIS IS JUST NOT TRUE. The game was released in a FINISHED state. Valve only added the 2 new versus campaigns because you, me and the community demanding it. Hense why it took so long for them to get finished.

COMMON MISTAKE #2: Many users claimed that the $50 price tag was too much for a game with such little content. Now sure, this may be true, but you were not paying $50 for content, you were paying $50 for the AI Director, a tool that enabled different games every time you play. Now just think about it. Would you rather pay $50 for a game which comes with 10 maps, but its the same every time, or a game which comes with 4 campaigns but is different every time? I would chose the latter. The game was worth $50. You know it, I know it. Just check how much you have played L4D and work out the hour/dollar ratio and you will see it was totally worth it.

Moving on. Many of you a jarateed off because Valve made a statement promising new maps, new weapons and new charaters. Sure this is totally true. However, plans can change in a company in a matter of days. I work as an IT Manager, and I promise my users things, only to go back on my promise at a later date due to some circumstances that I could not forsee. This happens in business. Its dissapointing, but it happens.

BUT, THATS NOT TO SAY VALVE DID NOT DELIVER ON THIS PROMISE. They released 2 new versus campaigns due to customer demand. They created a whole new game mode with Survival, edited a bunch of maps, and then created the Lighthouse map. This was a long process for them, especially balancing out the versus maps. Now many users complained about Death Toll 4/5 versus, where you cant get on the roofs. This is not Valve's fault. Dont blame them. Its a fine line with balancing the maps, and then actually making them perform well for users on all hardware. Would you like it if you could get on the roofs in those maps, but the maps would not be optimised and run at 4 FPS? No. I wouldnt. Anyway, Valve have stated that they are working on improving these maps. And they will. I trust them.

Now finally, the SDK. The SDK was promised and its finally here after 6 months. Sure its a beta, but its here. Now, many users complain about how the SDK took so long to be released. Let me explain. The SDK is not just a bunch of tools that Valve used and they then could release it to the public. That is just stupid. Valve use software worth millions of dollers to create L4D. They cant just release that to the public! It would almost be piracy. Instead Valve have to edit, reprogram that software to make is usable to the general public. Not only that, but Valve have to make that software user friendly. You think anyone can start mapping using the professional software that Valve use? Nah, even the most experienced mappers would have trouble learning all the new things. Thats why Hammer, and many other programs included in the SDK is so friendly, because Valve make it friendly. Ontop of that, think about how much documentation Valve has to write for the SDK. They dont need all that text, they know what they are doing, but they need to write documentation for all the mod developers out there. This is a long and frustrating process. I know, I have done many similar projects document software. Plus, all the example maps, models and so on. This is not a job that can be done in one day. Its a very long and complicated process.

And finally... many users still complain about no new content. Well you dont know that and I dont know that. What I do know tho, is Matchmaking 2.0 will be out shortly. And lots of custom maps will also be out shortly. And Valve could even surprise us with some new contect too!. You just dont know! So be patient and stop assuming that you got screwed over. You didnt. If anything, you got pampered by Valve my friends!

Hell, in the RPS interview, Chet even said that the L4D team is a bit schizophrenic right now because they'll be continuing to develop and support the original as well as work on making sure the sequel doesn't suffer from the same pitfalls the original did at launch.

Noobs overreacting to something on the interent? say it aint so! next week they will move on to unrationally hating on something else they know little to nothing about.

maybe when some of these people get an IQ thats a positive number they will realize how stupid they look.

How about this amazing piece of priceless advice, if you dont like it, DONT BUY IT. its as simple as that.

Valve like every other company cares about money but valve prove they do care about the consumer to( more so than other companies like EA although i start changing my mind about EA after they drop the DRM thing). This is the first major blow valve did so i'm gonna let it go ( infact i'm a bit excited about l4d2 since i missed the 1st one)

adamosmaki

So EA was bad because they use DRM, but Valve was somehow fine? Despite the fact that they force one of the more restrictive DRMs out tehre on you with every game released by them?

Steam is worse than most other forms of DRM when your forced to use it, which seems to be getting more common as time goes by.

Basically Valve sold original L4D - a very content limited , unfinished and still experimental game - for 50$

Under false pretense that they will continue supporting it with new maps, weapons, game mods and gameplay tweaks.
Same as they did with Counter Strike, DOD, TF2 ...

But in fact (which is now shockingly revealed) Valve started to make L4D2 in same moment they released L4D1.So instead of working on fixing the just released game, they immidiately started planning to sell the FIXED game as NEW game.

L4D2 is what Valve promised to be free updates to L4D, all rolled in one package.

Lobotomist

So the only thing that people are complaining about is that they feel ripped off about L4D1, and I don't really agree with that.

I got more than enough hours out of it to call it a fantastic purchase, and from what I've noticed with TF2, the online community only complains whenever Valve adds anything to their games or tries anything new. So I don't really see the issue.

[QUOTE="Lobotomist"]

Basically Valve sold original L4D - a very content limited , unfinished and still experimental game - for 50$

Under false pretense that they will continue supporting it with new maps, weapons, game mods and gameplay tweaks.
Same as they did with Counter Strike, DOD, TF2 ...

But in fact (which is now shockingly revealed) Valve started to make L4D2 in same moment they released L4D1.So instead of working on fixing the just released game, they immidiately started planning to sell the FIXED game as NEW game.

L4D2 is what Valve promised to be free updates to L4D, all rolled in one package.

Planeforger

So the only thing that people are complaining about is that they feel ripped off about L4D1, and I don't really agree with that.

I got more than enough hours out of it to call it a fantastic purchase, and from what I've noticed with TF2, the online community only complains whenever Valve adds anything to their games or tries anything new. So I don't really see the issue.

This, just go to the TF2 forums and at least 75% of the time its just people **** and cursing out valve.

Welcome to the new internet trend.

Before E3 2009 Valve was to be a company PC players used to love.

Enter L4D2 (by the way does that not reminds you of R2D2 ?)

Now Valve stepped on and spit in everything PC gamers used to love about Valve.

Is it not funny how a company can ruin their reputation and turn it around from 100% to -100% in one day ?

Valve is now the company gamers love to hate.

It would be funny to see how the buisness development at Valve will justify this move ? Quickly selling few game copies , but in turn ruining company reputation and destroy long term revenues?

Do you think a gaming company can ever recover from this ?

Lobo

Lobotomist

"Valve is now the company gamers love to hate" I don't know anyone who hates Valve, actually it's the complete oposite. Left 4 Dead was a short game, nothing big about it, why wouldn't they release the next one a YEAR later?

Why is everyone so quick to judge a game that was announce just 2 days ago? psp-freak

Becasue there ignorant, and need something to constantly bash to make themselves feel better

It's 1 game, chill out. Yes it's odd that a new valve game is on the way but it's the guys at turtle rock (bought by vavle) who are behind development, SO CHILL.

I fail to see why Valve is the new EA. What people keeps saying is that they hate Valve because they are bringing L4D2 out so early. My response is that SO WHAT... They are looking ahead into the future and you cannot blame them for not wanting to stay where they are now. In this economy be lucky that Valve is even around and they may NEED to start making new products or god forbid they might end up like GM. I say don't let one game be your FINAL decision about a company as a whole because let me tell you when this game releases it will be spectacular and you will buy it and Valve will still be the great company it is and always has been.

IN my opinion the L4D before ANY patches was the best revision but you get those whiners and they mess everything up, the only good thing that came from the patches was the melee Nerf, maps, and survival mode. L4D never felt like a beta or unfinished game to me and happens to be ONE of the BEST games I have EVER played and believe me I have played a WHOLE bunch of games in my day as I started back in the genesis days..

[QUOTE="Lobotomist"]

Basically Valve sold original L4D - a very content limited , unfinished and still experimental game - for 50$

Under false pretense that they will continue supporting it with new maps, weapons, game mods and gameplay tweaks.
Same as they did with Counter Strike, DOD, TF2 ...

But in fact (which is now shockingly revealed) Valve started to make L4D2 in same moment they released L4D1.So instead of working on fixing the just released game, they immidiately started planning to sell the FIXED game as NEW game.

L4D2 is what Valve promised to be free updates to L4D, all rolled in one package.

Now if that doesnt irk you. And if you payed for L4D and still want to buy L4D2. Fine for you.

But just read forums all over internet and you will notice lot of angry posts. This was unusual for Valve.

All i am saying they lost a lot of rep, and it will hurt them much more than what they will earn from L4D2 (that will never reach even 1/4 of L4D sales)

Baranga

You seem to have missed a lot of free updates then. Paste from the Steam forums:

Firstly, let me start off with the original release of L4D. It came with 2 versus campaigns and 4 single player campaigns. The only thing that was missing from the game was the other 2 versus campaigns. Now, at the time, Valve had stated that they did not include those versus campaigns due to balance issues. They were never meant to be part of the original game.

COMMON MISTAKE #1: Many users claim that the game was "unfinished" because it was missing 2 versus campaigns. THIS IS JUST NOT TRUE. The game was released in a FINISHED state. Valve only added the 2 new versus campaigns because you, me and the community demanding it. Hense why it took so long for them to get finished.

COMMON MISTAKE #2: Many users claimed that the $50 price tag was too much for a game with such little content. Now sure, this may be true, but you were not paying $50 for content, you were paying $50 for the AI Director, a tool that enabled different games every time you play. Now just think about it. Would you rather pay $50 for a game which comes with 10 maps, but its the same every time, or a game which comes with 4 campaigns but is different every time? I would chose the latter. The game was worth $50. You know it, I know it. Just check how much you have played L4D and work out the hour/dollar ratio and you will see it was totally worth it.

Moving on. Many of you a jarateed off because Valve made a statement promising new maps, new weapons and new charaters. Sure this is totally true. However, plans can change in a company in a matter of days. I work as an IT Manager, and I promise my users things, only to go back on my promise at a later date due to some circumstances that I could not forsee. This happens in business. Its dissapointing, but it happens.

BUT, THATS NOT TO SAY VALVE DID NOT DELIVER ON THIS PROMISE. They released 2 new versus campaigns due to customer demand. They created a whole new game mode with Survival, edited a bunch of maps, and then created the Lighthouse map. This was a long process for them, especially balancing out the versus maps. Now many users complained about Death Toll 4/5 versus, where you cant get on the roofs. This is not Valve's fault. Dont blame them. Its a fine line with balancing the maps, and then actually making them perform well for users on all hardware. Would you like it if you could get on the roofs in those maps, but the maps would not be optimised and run at 4 FPS? No. I wouldnt. Anyway, Valve have stated that they are working on improving these maps. And they will. I trust them.

Now finally, the SDK. The SDK was promised and its finally here after 6 months. Sure its a beta, but its here. Now, many users complain about how the SDK took so long to be released. Let me explain. The SDK is not just a bunch of tools that Valve used and they then could release it to the public. That is just stupid. Valve use software worth millions of dollers to create L4D. They cant just release that to the public! It would almost be piracy. Instead Valve have to edit, reprogram that software to make is usable to the general public. Not only that, but Valve have to make that software user friendly. You think anyone can start mapping using the professional software that Valve use? Nah, even the most experienced mappers would have trouble learning all the new things. Thats why Hammer, and many other programs included in the SDK is so friendly, because Valve make it friendly. Ontop of that, think about how much documentation Valve has to write for the SDK. They dont need all that text, they know what they are doing, but they need to write documentation for all the mod developers out there. This is a long and frustrating process. I know, I have done many similar projects document software. Plus, all the example maps, models and so on. This is not a job that can be done in one day. Its a very long and complicated process.

And finally... many users still complain about no new content. Well you dont know that and I dont know that. What I do know tho, is Matchmaking 2.0 will be out shortly. And lots of custom maps will also be out shortly. And Valve could even surprise us with some new contect too!. You just dont know! So be patient and stop assuming that you got screwed over. You didnt. If anything, you got pampered by Valve my friends!

Hell, in the RPS interview, Chet even said that the L4D team is a bit schizophrenic right now because they'll be continuing to develop and support the original as well as work on making sure the sequel doesn't suffer from the same pitfalls the original did at launch.

[QUOTE="Lobotomist"]

Basically Valve sold original L4D - a very content limited , unfinished and still experimental game - for 50$

Under false pretense that they will continue supporting it with new maps, weapons, game mods and gameplay tweaks.
Same as they did with Counter Strike, DOD, TF2 ...

But in fact (which is now shockingly revealed) Valve started to make L4D2 in same moment they released L4D1.So instead of working on fixing the just released game, they immidiately started planning to sell the FIXED game as NEW game.

L4D2 is what Valve promised to be free updates to L4D, all rolled in one package.

Now if that doesnt irk you. And if you payed for L4D and still want to buy L4D2. Fine for you.

But just read forums all over internet and you will notice lot of angry posts. This was unusual for Valve.

All i am saying they lost a lot of rep, and it will hurt them much more than what they will earn from L4D2 (that will never reach even 1/4 of L4D sales)

Baranga

You seem to have missed a lot of free updates then. Paste from the Steam forums:

Firstly, let me start off with the original release of L4D. It came with 2 versus campaigns and 4 single player campaigns. The only thing that was missing from the game was the other 2 versus campaigns. Now, at the time, Valve had stated that they did not include those versus campaigns due to balance issues. They were never meant to be part of the original game.

COMMON MISTAKE #1: Many users claim that the game was "unfinished" because it was missing 2 versus campaigns. THIS IS JUST NOT TRUE. The game was released in a FINISHED state. Valve only added the 2 new versus campaigns because you, me and the community demanding it. Hense why it took so long for them to get finished.

COMMON MISTAKE #2: Many users claimed that the $50 price tag was too much for a game with such little content. Now sure, this may be true, but you were not paying $50 for content, you were paying $50 for the AI Director, a tool that enabled different games every time you play. Now just think about it. Would you rather pay $50 for a game which comes with 10 maps, but its the same every time, or a game which comes with 4 campaigns but is different every time? I would chose the latter. The game was worth $50. You know it, I know it. Just check how much you have played L4D and work out the hour/dollar ratio and you will see it was totally worth it.

Moving on. Many of you a jarateed off because Valve made a statement promising new maps, new weapons and new charaters. Sure this is totally true. However, plans can change in a company in a matter of days. I work as an IT Manager, and I promise my users things, only to go back on my promise at a later date due to some circumstances that I could not forsee. This happens in business. Its dissapointing, but it happens.

BUT, THATS NOT TO SAY VALVE DID NOT DELIVER ON THIS PROMISE. They released 2 new versus campaigns due to customer demand. They created a whole new game mode with Survival, edited a bunch of maps, and then created the Lighthouse map. This was a long process for them, especially balancing out the versus maps. Now many users complained about Death Toll 4/5 versus, where you cant get on the roofs. This is not Valve's fault. Dont blame them. Its a fine line with balancing the maps, and then actually making them perform well for users on all hardware. Would you like it if you could get on the roofs in those maps, but the maps would not be optimised and run at 4 FPS? No. I wouldnt. Anyway, Valve have stated that they are working on improving these maps. And they will. I trust them.

Now finally, the SDK. The SDK was promised and its finally here after 6 months. Sure its a beta, but its here. Now, many users complain about how the SDK took so long to be released. Let me explain. The SDK is not just a bunch of tools that Valve used and they then could release it to the public. That is just stupid. Valve use software worth millions of dollers to create L4D. They cant just release that to the public! It would almost be piracy. Instead Valve have to edit, reprogram that software to make is usable to the general public. Not only that, but Valve have to make that software user friendly. You think anyone can start mapping using the professional software that Valve use? Nah, even the most experienced mappers would have trouble learning all the new things. Thats why Hammer, and many other programs included in the SDK is so friendly, because Valve make it friendly. Ontop of that, think about how much documentation Valve has to write for the SDK. They dont need all that text, they know what they are doing, but they need to write documentation for all the mod developers out there. This is a long and frustrating process. I know, I have done many similar projects document software. Plus, all the example maps, models and so on. This is not a job that can be done in one day. Its a very long and complicated process.

And finally... many users still complain about no new content. Well you dont know that and I dont know that. What I do know tho, is Matchmaking 2.0 will be out shortly. And lots of custom maps will also be out shortly. And Valve could even surprise us with some new contect too!. You just dont know! So be patient and stop assuming that you got screwed over. You didnt. If anything, you got pampered by Valve my friends!

Hell, in the RPS interview, Chet even said that the L4D team is a bit schizophrenic right now because they'll be continuing to develop and support the original as well as work on making sure the sequel doesn't suffer from the same pitfalls the original did at launch.

Ok, 1st of all you shouldn't write in italic, it's really annoying.

2nd, Valve didn't release 2 new Versus maps, they just unlocked 2 maps ALREADY in the game so that they could be played in Versus, this hardly qualifies as new content. So, what new content did they release? 1 new game mode and 1 new map that can only be played on that game mode. YAY!

You just can't twist it, a LOT of people bought L4D knowing full well that the game was low on content, but trusting that Valve would support it and release more content over time, like they did with other games. It doesn't really matter if L4D2 is completely different than L4D, Valve is ripping off their customers. We payed full price for half a game because we expected more content over time and what does Valve do? They ditch L4D!

And you say they'll continue to support L4D? We'll just have to wait and see but I seriously doubt that! They'll probably just concentrate their efforts on L4D2 and provide minimum support for L4D.

And the SDK? I would say a lot of people would be turned off by the idea of developing content for L4D knowing that L4D2 is just around the corner. Again, we'll have to wait and see, but i'm not too confident about this. I can tell you I'll never again buy Valve games that aren't fully-loaded from the start, they just can't be trusted any more.

Let's disregard the apologists/fanboys for a second, a one year gap between two entries in a series is still too short compared to the standard and reeks of extreme greed even if the first game was worth the money (which it was not). So yes if they keep up this practice they will become the new EA.

You just can't twist it, a LOT of people bought L4D knowing full well that the game was low on content

nunovlopes

The game had just as much content as many other big games no one complains about ,Gears of war and call of duty 4 come to mind, the time it takes to beat the 4 campaigns at a decent difficulty easily is the same as it would take to beat those games, plus it has more replayability, not to mention the online.

People who complain about teh amount of content in left 4 dead need to stop blowing through teh game as fast as possible and actually play it.

even if the first game was worth the money (which it was not)

Erlkoenig

Left 4 dead is easily worth teh mnoney unless you were stupid and got it with no friends to play with.

[QUOTE="Lobotomist"]

Basically Valve sold original L4D - a very content limited , unfinished and still experimental game - for 50$

Under false pretense that they will continue supporting it with new maps, weapons, game mods and gameplay tweaks.
Same as they did with Counter Strike, DOD, TF2 ...

But in fact (which is now shockingly revealed) Valve started to make L4D2 in same moment they released L4D1.So instead of working on fixing the just released game, they immidiately started planning to sell the FIXED game as NEW game.

L4D2 is what Valve promised to be free updates to L4D, all rolled in one package.

Now if that doesnt irk you. And if you payed for L4D and still want to buy L4D2. Fine for you.

But just read forums all over internet and you will notice lot of angry posts. This was unusual for Valve.

All i am saying they lost a lot of rep, and it will hurt them much more than what they will earn from L4D2 (that will never reach even 1/4 of L4D sales)

Baranga

You seem to have missed a lot of free updates then. Paste from the Steam forums:

Firstly, let me start off with the original release of L4D. It came with 2 versus campaigns and 4 single player campaigns. The only thing that was missing from the game was the other 2 versus campaigns. Now, at the time, Valve had stated that they did not include those versus campaigns due to balance issues. They were never meant to be part of the original game.

COMMON MISTAKE #1: Many users claim that the game was "unfinished" because it was missing 2 versus campaigns. THIS IS JUST NOT TRUE. The game was released in a FINISHED state. Valve only added the 2 new versus campaigns because you, me and the community demanding it. Hense why it took so long for them to get finished.

COMMON MISTAKE #2: Many users claimed that the $50 price tag was too much for a game with such little content. Now sure, this may be true, but you were not paying $50 for content, you were paying $50 for the AI Director, a tool that enabled different games every time you play. Now just think about it. Would you rather pay $50 for a game which comes with 10 maps, but its the same every time, or a game which comes with 4 campaigns but is different every time? I would chose the latter. The game was worth $50. You know it, I know it. Just check how much you have played L4D and work out the hour/dollar ratio and you will see it was totally worth it.

Moving on. Many of you a jarateed off because Valve made a statement promising new maps, new weapons and new charaters. Sure this is totally true. However, plans can change in a company in a matter of days. I work as an IT Manager, and I promise my users things, only to go back on my promise at a later date due to some circumstances that I could not forsee. This happens in business. Its dissapointing, but it happens.

BUT, THATS NOT TO SAY VALVE DID NOT DELIVER ON THIS PROMISE. They released 2 new versus campaigns due to customer demand. They created a whole new game mode with Survival, edited a bunch of maps, and then created the Lighthouse map. This was a long process for them, especially balancing out the versus maps. Now many users complained about Death Toll 4/5 versus, where you cant get on the roofs. This is not Valve's fault. Dont blame them. Its a fine line with balancing the maps, and then actually making them perform well for users on all hardware. Would you like it if you could get on the roofs in those maps, but the maps would not be optimised and run at 4 FPS? No. I wouldnt. Anyway, Valve have stated that they are working on improving these maps. And they will. I trust them.

Now finally, the SDK. The SDK was promised and its finally here after 6 months. Sure its a beta, but its here. Now, many users complain about how the SDK took so long to be released. Let me explain. The SDK is not just a bunch of tools that Valve used and they then could release it to the public. That is just stupid. Valve use software worth millions of dollers to create L4D. They cant just release that to the public! It would almost be piracy. Instead Valve have to edit, reprogram that software to make is usable to the general public. Not only that, but Valve have to make that software user friendly. You think anyone can start mapping using the professional software that Valve use? Nah, even the most experienced mappers would have trouble learning all the new things. Thats why Hammer, and many other programs included in the SDK is so friendly, because Valve make it friendly. Ontop of that, think about how much documentation Valve has to write for the SDK. They dont need all that text, they know what they are doing, but they need to write documentation for all the mod developers out there. This is a long and frustrating process. I know, I have done many similar projects document software. Plus, all the example maps, models and so on. This is not a job that can be done in one day. Its a very long and complicated process.

And finally... many users still complain about no new content. Well you dont know that and I dont know that. What I do know tho, is Matchmaking 2.0 will be out shortly. And lots of custom maps will also be out shortly. And Valve could even surprise us with some new contect too!. You just dont know! So be patient and stop assuming that you got screwed over. You didnt. If anything, you got pampered by Valve my friends!

Hell, in the RPS interview, Chet even said that the L4D team is a bit schizophrenic right now because they'll be continuing to develop and support the original as well as work on making sure the sequel doesn't suffer from the same pitfalls the original did at launch.

I totally disagree with their "common mistake 2." I bought the game for $50 expecting more content, not that I could expect the same content reiterated with the mobs dynamically spaced.

[QUOTE="nunovlopes"]

You just can't twist it, a LOT of people bought L4D knowing full well that the game was low on content

warmaster670

The game had just as much content as many other big games no one complains about ,Gears of war and call of duty 4 come to mind, the time it takes to beat the 4 campaigns at a decent difficulty easily is the same as it would take to beat those games, plus it has more replayability, not to mention the online.

People who complain about teh amount of content in left 4 dead need to stop blowing through teh game as fast as possible and actually play it.

even if the first game was worth the money (which it was not)

Erlkoenig

Left 4 dead is easily worth teh mnoney unless you were stupid and got it with no friends to play with.

Guess what :), I didn't buy COD4 (played it with a friends copy), or COD:WAW (never played it) for that matter, precisely because I view them as recycled games that are too short and not worth replaying. I choose which games to buy carefully, and Valve's games always were at the top of my list, precisely because they seemed to have different practices when it comes to pleasing the customers (in other words, not pumping out games that have nothing really new). But let's wait and see, if they continue to release content for L4D that might convince me to buy L4D2!

From what I've seen so far there's nothing in L4D2 that couldn't have been added to L4D as an update/expansion.

Also if the SDK is now released doesn't this make the sequel kind of worthless? I bet those features appear on the mod scene before the next game is even released.

No matter how you guys try to sugar coat it this was a dickish move on Valves part. I'm not going to throw them down on the levels of EA and the like but this was a low blow. I bought the game first week, despite hearing in all the reviews and player comments about there being a serious lack of content. It's Valve, it's one of the best companies around for post game support and they had promised before the game was even released that they would release constant content updates and patches. Eight months after the game in released we finally get this very lackluster content update which in reality added nothing more then a quick game mode that few people play. Two months later we come to realize that they've spent that time working on a brand new game, Left for Dead 2 which will be released 1 year after the original, instead of working on filling their first game a reasonable amount of content. Honestly they could have sold it as an expansion to the first for $20 and still made a ton of profit and kept themselves looking good. Instead they get greedy and are tossing it out there as a brand new game which they're going to sell at full price.

L4D is starting to look like a purchase that I'm seriously regretting and it's climbing a list which contains disasters like Spore and Mercs 2. I've gotten about 50 hours logged on L4D and for a multiplayer centered game that is horrible when it costs full price. The director AI which is supposed to make each game random never really does, minor changes here and there but I've seen more randomness from CoD4 then I have with L4D. Versus, which is supposed to be the bread and buttter almost always plays out the same way with minor differences here depending on the teams. As I said it's very lackluster and well below the standards Valve usualy has, and to top it off they are going to release a sequeal filled with content that in reality a modding team could do in the same amount of time. But I doubt we'll be seeing much in the way of mods for L4D considering how close the sequeal is to coming out.

It's sad to see Valve forgo on the original for a quick cash in with a sequel, it really drops them down a few pegs in my eyes. But maybe this is just a one time thing for them, everyone makes mistakes and I'm hoping Valve were drunk and high as hell when they made this decision.

Come on now.. Valve is not the new EA. This makes me laugh to be honest. This is the first time Valve will be releasing a game so close to there last project. Its not something that Valve does EVERY year. They usually have long gaps in between when new projects come out. They are doign this ONCE with Left4Dead, lets wait and see how it turns out?

EA puts out Madden and NHL each year EVERY year. The Call Of Duty series come sout EACH AND EVERY YEAR as well. Lets not just on valve case yet, lets wait and see how Left4Dead2 turns out and if they do this again with any other game/series before we call Valve THE NEXT EVIL EA!

Valve still updates TF2 tons, which NO company does these days so imo they are not EA.

@ warmaster670 Did you just seriously compare Call of Duty 4 with L4D? CoD4 had much more content than L4D. The same maps that you could play co-op (or solo) were the same ones you could play versus in L4D (after the update). Plus through updates, COD4 actually got entirely new maps that weren't in the game before. Even with friends, you can still get bored playing L4D because you are still replaying the same maps over and over again. No one seeminly wants to play L4D anymore because they played all of the included maps to death (myself included). They really could have added some of those new L4D2 campaign maps as DLC in L4D but its a lot easier for the company to market them as a totally new game and sell it for $50 dollars. I don't blame them for doing it, but still can't help feel that Valve abandoned the first L4D.the_ChEeSe_mAn2

I put MUCH more time into Left4Dead then i did COD4. You can say COD4 has so much more content all you want, but my playing time went to Left4Dead instead of Call OF Duty 4. Left4Dead was just as much a FINISHED game as COD4 was imo. (i own both).

Let's disregard the apologists/fanboys for a second, a one year gap between two entries in a series is still too short compared to the standard and reeks of extreme greed even if the first game was worth the money (which it was not). So yes if they keep up this practice they will become the new EA.

Erlkoenig

Buts its ok for Call Of Duty and others to do this every year? And when valve does it ONCE out of 10+ years you get angry? Come on now.

Even CoD gets released every 2 years, not every year. No, not the series itself but the real CoD, the one made by IW, not Treyarch.

Even CoD gets released every 2 years, not every year. No, not the series itself but the real CoD, the one made by IW, not Treyarch.

DanielDust

Same series, exact same engine. Alot of fans of COD buy a new COD game each year, same goes for Madden, NHL and NBA LIVE, no differnce what so ever.

My freidns who love COD buy it every year, so why cant i have Left4Dead2 a year after Left4Dead1? This is a first time thing for Valve so ill wait and see hwo it turns out before judging and it cursing out Valve.

COD4 and COD:WAW are pretty much identical games imo, as to how they play and how they look. So its not every 2 years its EVERY year my friends buy a COD game and a new Madden game.

Infact, the COD games have been almost exactly the same since COD2,COD3, COD4 and COD:WAW imo. You want to talk about milking, thats milking at its finest imo.

Valve has NEVER made a bad game imo, so i will give them a chance and see how L4D2 turns out.

again, more fanboy raaage. :?

[QUOTE="DanielDust"]

Even CoD gets released every 2 years, not every year. No, not the series itself but the real CoD, the one made by IW, not Treyarch.

kozzy1234

Same series, exact same engine. Alot of fans of COD buy a new COD game each year, same goes for Madden, NHL and NBA LIVE, no differnce what so ever.

My freidns who love COD buy it every year, so why cant i have Left4Dead2 a year after Left4Dead1? This is a first time thing for Valve so ill wait and see hwo it turns out before judging and it cursing out Valve.

COD4 and COD:WAW are pretty much identical games imo, as to how they play and how they look. So its not every 2 years its EVERY year my friends buy a COD game and a new Madden game.

Infact, the COD games have been almost exactly the same since COD2,COD3, COD4 and COD:WAW imo. You want to talk about milking, thats milking at its finest imo.

Valve has NEVER made a bad game imo, so i will give them a chance and see how L4D2 turns out.

L4D2 is disgusting imo, everything, the survivors, new weapons (except fire ammo), new weapon sounds, daylight (L4D wasn't scary, but daylight? come on). Even if they release a game every year, it should have at least some visible improvements, not just some new content.

That was the bad part, the good part is the A.I Director 2, it sounds great, the new random paths and weather system, zombie variation and maybe it's just me but it seems the hunter has more heath now. I'm sure I'll be getting it, because the A.I Director could become an awesome feature for future, maps, mods, etc.

I'm sure I'm alone on this one ;) but when I see a fat guy, with a chainsaw, that is one of the 4 survivors in a zombie infested town, I turn my head and look for other things to do, corny jedi talk is nothing compared to this, it's an extremely bad joke, the first 4 survivors are all stereotypes but they are kinda nice, but these 4 ...

I cant say for sure, but I think they took this route, because it was easier then upgrading the current engine.

If it is just too hard upgrading or adding to it, ot he amount ofthings needs changing, I kinda understand thier train of thoughts.

I willwait and see what it is all about, I am sure Valve will explain it.

valve has dissapointed me once again. Its waaay too early to talk about l4d2. they can talk about what new crap you will get but l4d is an excuse of a game. that should have been the alpha/beta. instead we paid to get 3 guns with 4 levels. seriously i cant stand the fact that they promised us new content and all we got were a few variables changed in the code. and now they expect us to pay for what we should have got in the first place? i certainly wont!

This is the MINIMUM stuff you will get in L4D2:

- 5 New Campaigns
- 5 New Versus Campaigns Which are likely the same as the regular campaigns
- Lots of new Survival maps Probably taken from the regular campaigns like in the original
- A whole new game mode Only thing substantial along with the new campaigns. Still not worth a sequel though.
- Tweaked current special infected to make them more deadly They've already done this with updates
- New infected such as the Wandering Witch or the Charger (If not more) Witch isn't new, just tweaked. There had better be more than just the Charger.
- 4 New Characters Which suck.
- Hours and Hours of new conversations between the new characters. Wasn't needed
- New common infected Some are fireproof, joy...
- Different ammo types Nice, but how does this deserve a new game?
- New Melee weapons Same as above.
- New guns in general Which are just modified versions of the original guns...
- A whole STORYLINE this time round, and not just random "movies" Not needed.
- Probably a new difficulty level Uh-huh.
- New finales and crescendo events Same as the campaigns.
- Lots of game fixes and bug fixes and common mistakes fixed from the 1st L4D such as no more Shiva stacking, no more closetting and so on. Which should have been fixed by now in the original.
- Made the game more brutal and gory First one was fine, again, this does not deserve a sequel.
- And probably lots of other super cool features that we would all love. Just like in the first game! Oh, wait...

Oh noez this is teh new Madden!

Baranga

Might as well be the new Madden, the gameplay between the first and second L4D are nearly the same. Adding a few new weapons isn't going to change that.

About the 5 campaigns and versus maps, yes they'll all be available this time, it's confirmed, the price too, it's considered a full fledged game with the usual price tag, which means 50$.

Might as well be the new Madden, the gameplay between the first and second L4D are nearly the same. Adding a few new weapons isn't going to change that.metroidfood

I'm not disappointed with Valve, I'm sure L4D2 will be great once its finally here, but I'm also sure It'll be a different enough gameplay experience from the original to make me want to still play the original. There'll be loads of new user maps coming out, plus server mods (i hope) L4DRPG anyone? :P