So the situation in Israel...

Too much to go into, so some links (hope they are good enough).

CNN - discusses a recent terrorist attack from Hamas.

NPR transcript of what one of their reporters are witnessing down there.

And Benjamin Netanyahu declares that they "are at war" (The Times of Israel).

I already knew things were HORRIBLE down there. But it makes one wonder how the hell does this get solved? What Hamas just did was blatantly abhorrent. No "ifs," "ands," or "buts," and I'm already seeing damage control on Twitter because of Israel's heinous acts against Palestinians.

And on a side note, Cori Bush of The Squad's statements on the matter is getting a lot of heat. From BOTH major US political parties.

Thoughts on this? I'm pretty damn speechless in this right now. I don't even know what we could do without MORE bloodshed. Other than history continually showing me that both the Israeli government and Hamas BOTH deserve condemnation.

Bush and the Squad is getting heat from morons who do not truly know the conflict.

Israel is an apartheid state, period. And BOTH parties refuse to recognize this.

looks like Hamas decided they don't want to exist anymore.

that's one way to go i guess...

Hopefully USA doesn't play superhero and try to solve the equation.

Palestine Authority agreed with the 1967 border in their statement so its time to do that. Both sides needs to acknowledge each nation have to co-exist its the only way in my opinion. its a much better outcome than one side wishing destruction over the other. Furthermore Israeli illegal settlers inside Palestine west bank territories either have to declare their loyalty to Palestine or return to Israel.

Pretty terrible situation all around with no clear solution.

If the US doesn't, who will?

I'm not really big into messing with other countries (the US has a long history of meddling in state affairs and it's not great), but at the same time...if it's done publicly and with good intent...I think it is OK to get involved.

The world is smaller than it has ever been, we can't afford to just let allies get steamrolled nor can we let allies bully others (and everything in between).

This isn't just about Palestine/Hamas and Israel; there's a good chance that Syria, Jordan, Egypt, Iran, and other countries could get involved. China and Russia also have interests in that region as well; you want them getting involved but not the US?

@mrbojangles25: Yeah, imo this is a clear cut case where we should get involved if requested.

An attack resulting in hundreds of deaths was orchestrated against an ally's civilians.

and that ally is one of the most racist nations on Earth who occupy and brutalize people on land that is not their own.

I really hope Gaza Ali is okay. I'm pretty sure he stopped posting here a long time ago, but I think about him from time to time, and I hope he's nowhere near this violence.

I'm not really sure Hamas (or the governments of Jordan, Syria, etc) would be an improvement over Israel.

Like I said, it's a shitty situation all around, no one is really the good guy here. I feel dirty saying this, but we have to focus on our self-interest here and it's better to have a buffer state like Israel in that region than it is to have a collection of religious theocracies that despise Western culture.

Prophecy

@texasgoldrush: There are a lot of legitimate criticisms of Israel, but defending their civilians from rocket strikes wouldn't be one of them.

I feel either they reach a 2 state solution (without any enclave like the israeli settlements in Palestine west bank) or nobody gets it and let the region administered by UN. The region is too political even if Palestine achieve statehood every interested party gonna meddle with administration of Jerusalem.

@mrbojangles25: let the country's in that area solve the equation. USA got enough problems where USA stands.

You have to wonder if the Hamas and Hezbollah have thought this through to conclusion. Israel has officially declared war and they are going to wipe both groups from the face of the Earth.

It's very difficult to understand the rationale or goals behind how they've conducted this offensive. That is to say, it's hard to understand what "winning" looks like on the ground or in public relations.

Not that the world cared at all about the plight of the Palestenian people (if they did we'd have a 2-state solution and not a defacto apartheid state led by racists), but this doesn't get anyone any closer to the safety and security they've been struggling to get since the foundations of the state of Israel.

It does not matter if they are right or wrong on the big picture, but you don't go out say "but Israel" the moment after terrorists executed over 700 civilians.

@adrian1480: Because the Palestinians don’t want peace; they want the destruction of Israel. They’re not interested in a 2 state solution, so Israel should give them the war they want and make it a 1 state solution. 👍

The responses to this thread are funny. I have quite a few complaints against Israel; they don't matter. Israel is going to take the Hamas and push their shit in sideways.

Our armchair-quarterbacking, moral scruples and progressive thinking have no power here. Israel was attacked, for whatever reason, and is Israel is going level Gaza.

I guess if we had internet back then we were going to have people celebrating Germany's crushing of the Warsow's guetto uprising around here too.

Of course the response is inevitable and expected. It's not like anyone expects a nation of religious fundamentalists which already murders and humiliates Palestinians on a daily basis to act any other way. Israel will keep targeting civilians and with how important is the evangelical vote is no one will dare to point a finger in the US.

Having said this, while I won't mourn any military loss from Israel I do think it's unacceptable the targeting of civilians by Hamas.

Then they will keep getting attacked like they always do.

As long as they maintain their racist apartheid policy, there will be no safety.

But Israel's apartheid policies has led to terrorists executing 700 civilians. They were so busy with the West Bank, they didn't even defend their own people around Gaza.

Hope the US stays out of it.

Israel is better equipped than Hamas. Picking a fight they gonna lose

*All* Palestinians - men, women, and children - want the destruction of Israel, rather than simple equality? No nuance or differing opinions among millions of people? Hamas = all? You feel wanton genocide is the appropriate solution to a painting you've made with what is clearly a very broad brush stroke?

I'm sort of morbidly curious about your answers to any of the above. I didn't think they still made your model of person anymore.

As for the broader implication, is advocating for genocide considered acceptable to you or now accepted on this website? Or am I misunderstanding what you're asking for? And maybe a mod can help me understand what is not tolerated here in 2023? Because what I'm seeing these days sure as hell wouldn't have flown in 2008.

Have standards collapsed so low here since I was a regular that genocide advocacy is a-okay? I get the concervative racists being accepted (they're like roaches), but genoicidal sociopaths are a rare sight and even rarer an accepted presence in any credible online community. Given the post counts in these forums, clearly 99% of the quality posters have moved on to other forums, but goddamn what a fall from grace.

And there is going to be even more terrorism for decades to come as a result. Just an endless cycle of violence.

SNAFU

Didn't read your entire response but the simple fact is Palestinians did put HAMAS, a terrorist organization in charge. They do share the part of the blame.

Wish I didn't see any of those videos. Absolutely horrific, what a waste of life. I'm not sure what these terrorists were thinking. I mean, Israel will mop the floor with them and more people will die now because of it.

Keep it civil guys.

That's the thing. HAMAS doesn't care what havoc they play on the Palestinians, which to me is more egregious than outsiders. Subjecting your own people is a special kind of evil.

@LJS9502_basic: People of Israel also voted for a terrorist government . I guess it's fine then.

HAMAS attacked civilians. I guess you're okay with that then.

Yeah I am generally quick to condemn Israel and more or less view them as a necessary evil, but Hamas really did something terrible here.

Really kicked the hornet's nest. What's worse, the people of Palestine will suffer, while the folks in Hamas that made these decisions will likely be fine.

@LJS9502_basic: I'm as OK with that as I'm ok with Israel's routinely killing and subjugation of Palestinian civilians. As I've said it in here, I won't be lamenting any loss of military Israelis but the targeting of civilian targets is always unacceptable.

Yep. I don't think HAMAS really cares about the Palestinians since they knew what they did was an act of war.

@mrbojangles25: You can be sure that many of the HAMAS people involved in this are going to get killed and they already knew this before the attacks.

You might be right, but that doesn't make it any better: willingly sacrificing yourself is one thing; willingly sacrificing innocents in addition to yourself is quite another.

It's all just really sad and has been for decades. I don't even know what can be done at this point that isn't a completely reprehensible act.

All these people, these isolationists or folks that think other powers shouldn't get involved, I'm not really sure what good that would do. If anything, the world needs to become more involved but I'm not sure.

Israel's government is completely fucked. Netanyahu should not be in power, and they've had so many problems with elections and politicians in the past few years it honestly makes the US look like it has its shit together.

And Hamas? Oy vey.

Guys, the ONLY way this will ever end is if Jerusalem is turned into a muck-filled, radioactive crater.

Now, I'm not saying it's a good idea, or one that should be acted upon. But still...

@br0kenrabbit: Watch people fight over the right to have the radioactive muck filled crater within their borders.

Sad seeing those images on TV.

Church of the Atom?

Florida?

Apartheid is not necessary evil.

The difference is Israel voted for their government, while Hamas isn't the Palestinian government.

And what do you know, Israel responds to war crimes with, you guessed it, war crimes.

@kathaariancode: I’m not reading all that nonsense. Your emotions on the issue are pointless. It’s going to come down to one or the other. Hamas went too far and have a feeling everyone there is going to pay for it.

If I had to make a choice, or a team, I'd choose Israel. I know it's not just two sides, and there are a lot of elements behind either of the names directly involved...

But Israel. Absolutely, Israel.