Senate votes 38-56 to strike down student loan bill

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#101 Posted by Rich3232 (2754 posts) -

@killzowned24 said:

It's this generations problem, thinking everything should just be given to them, and now they want even more lol.

That's blatantly wrong.

#102 Edited by General_X (9032 posts) -

@killzowned24: I'm sorry but this generation does not have it easy by any means. It used to be that ole Pa could just go to work at a factory pressing metal sheets with no education and make THE SAME income (adjusted for inflation) as a college educated individual could today. Wages have stagnated and job competitiveness has increased exponentially. There's a reason so many people are willing to go thousands of dollars into debt for college and it's not for the fuck of it. It's because jobs that used to only require a HS education and a couple weeks of training now REQUIRE AT LEAST a bachelor's degree and probably 2-5 years work experience.

#103 Posted by Ackad (3183 posts) -

@General_X said:

@killzowned24: I'm sorry but this generation does not have it easy by any means. It used to be that ole Pa could just go to work at a factory pressing metal sheets with no education and make THE SAME income (adjusted for inflation) as a college educated individual could today. Wages have stagnated and job competitiveness has increased exponentially. There's a reason so many people are willing to go thousands of dollars into debt for college and it's not for the fuck of it. It's because jobs that used to only require a HS education and a couple weeks of training now REQUIRE AT LEAST a bachelor's degree and probably 2-5 years work experience.

Beautifully stated.

#104 Posted by airshocker (29930 posts) -

@Rich3232 said:

@airshocker said:

Why should the federal government help current and former students with their debt?

Helps the economy, man. I thought you guys were big on that?

Prove it.

#105 Posted by airshocker (29930 posts) -

Usually democrats are into passing large, comprehensive bills that no one will be able to read by the time they need to vote on it. How about a bill that actually addresses the cost of college first?

Oh right, because they don't think college is too expensive right now. They want even more funding for it.

#106 Posted by Rich3232 (2754 posts) -

@airshocker said:

@Rich3232 said:

@airshocker said:

Why should the federal government help current and former students with their debt?

Helps the economy, man. I thought you guys were big on that?

Prove it.

It's pretty obvious. If you're saddled with more debt, you have less disposable income for other stuff like houses, cars, and various other products/services. You know, the shit that actually produces economic activity? Basic 101 macroeconomics.

#107 Posted by airshocker (29930 posts) -

@Rich3232 said:

It's pretty obvious. If you're saddled with more debt, you have less disposable income for other stuff like houses, cars, and various other products/services. You know, the shit that actually produces economic activity? Basic 101 macroeconomics.

Okay, so draw up another bill that doesn't use a tax increase to offset the cost of this program and I'll support it. That is the main reason Republicans opposed it, after all.

I'm not opposed to students being able to refinance their loans at a lower interest rate. I'm simply opposed to the bullshit you fucking Democrats try to attach to bills in the process.

#108 Posted by Rich3232 (2754 posts) -

@airshocker said:

@Rich3232 said:

It's pretty obvious. If you're saddled with more debt, you have less disposable income for other stuff like houses, cars, and various other products/services. You know, the shit that actually produces economic activity? Basic 101 macroeconomics.

Okay, so draw up another bill that doesn't use a tax increase to offset the cost of this program and I'll support it. That is the main reason Republicans opposed it, after all.

I'm not opposed to students being able to refinance their loans at a lower interest rate. I'm simply opposed to the bullshit you fucking Democrats try to attach to bills in the process.

afaik, it's not even a real increase, more of just actually making sure the rich pay their share of taxes for once, and trust me they will benefit from this bill too. also, calm down m8, I'm not a democrat.

#109 Posted by airshocker (29930 posts) -

@Rich3232 said:

afaik, it's not even a real increase, more of just actually making sure the rich pay their share of taxes for once, and trust me they will benefit from this bill too. also, calm down m8, I'm not a democrat.

So it's not about helping the students at all. It's about increasing taxes. Good to know. I'm glad the Republicans blocked that bull shit.

It doesn't really matter if you aren't a Democrat. You're supporting a bill that is morally false. If you want to help students make a fucking bill that helps them. If it doesn't cost anything for these students to refinance, I'm fine with that. But don't attach shit that you know Republicans won't agree with and then try and act self-righteous when they refuse to bring it past consideration.

That's the kind of morally bankrupt bull shit people don't like on either side of the aisle.

#110 Edited by vfibsux (4205 posts) -

@-Sun_Tzu- said:

Senate votes 38-56 to strike down student loan bill

Is democracy dead in America?

ROFL@ the irony.

But yea, you liberals have never met a handout you didn't like.

#111 Edited by comp_atkins (31476 posts) -

@vfibsux said:

@-Sun_Tzu- said:

Senate votes 38-56 to strike down student loan bill

Is democracy dead in America?

ROFL@ the irony.

But yea, you liberals have never met a handout you didn't like.

how is the option to refi a fed. student loan a handout?

#112 Posted by -Sun_Tzu- (17384 posts) -

@vfibsux said:

@-Sun_Tzu- said:

Senate votes 38-56 to strike down student loan bill

Is democracy dead in America?

ROFL@ the irony.

But yea, you liberals have never met a handout you didn't like.

What exactly is ironic?

#113 Posted by vfibsux (4205 posts) -

@-Sun_Tzu- said:

@vfibsux said:

@-Sun_Tzu- said:

Senate votes 38-56 to strike down student loan bill

Is democracy dead in America?

ROFL@ the irony.

But yea, you liberals have never met a handout you didn't like.

What exactly is ironic?

Senate VOTES.......DEMOCRACY dead?

#114 Edited by -Sun_Tzu- (17384 posts) -

@vfibsux said:

@-Sun_Tzu- said:

@vfibsux said:

@-Sun_Tzu- said:

Senate votes 38-56 to strike down student loan bill

Is democracy dead in America?

ROFL@ the irony.

But yea, you liberals have never met a handout you didn't like.

What exactly is ironic?

Senate VOTES.......DEMOCRACY dead?

Umm (aside from the fact that the senate is a woefully undemocratic institution by design even before republicans started abusing the filibuster), 56 senators out of 100 voted in favor of the bill and it didn't pass. You do realize that one of the basic, if not the most basic principle of democracy is that the side with the most votes wins, especially when that side has a majority of the vote.

#115 Posted by Master_Live (14860 posts) -

@-Sun_Tzu- said:

@vfibsux said:

@-Sun_Tzu- said:

@vfibsux said:

@-Sun_Tzu- said:

Senate votes 38-56 to strike down student loan bill

Is democracy dead in America?

ROFL@ the irony.

But yea, you liberals have never met a handout you didn't like.

What exactly is ironic?

Senate VOTES.......DEMOCRACY dead?

Umm (aside from the fact that the senate is a woefully undemocratic institution by design even before republicans started abusing the filibuster), 56 senators out of 100 voted in favor of the bill and it didn't pass. You do realize that one of the basic, if not the most basic principle of democracy is that the side with the most votes wins, especially when that side has a majority of the vote.

Then go ahead and tell Harry to change the rules.

#116 Posted by -Sun_Tzu- (17384 posts) -

@Master_Live said:

@-Sun_Tzu- said:

@vfibsux said:

@-Sun_Tzu- said:

@vfibsux said:

@-Sun_Tzu- said:

Senate votes 38-56 to strike down student loan bill

Is democracy dead in America?

ROFL@ the irony.

But yea, you liberals have never met a handout you didn't like.

What exactly is ironic?

Senate VOTES.......DEMOCRACY dead?

Umm (aside from the fact that the senate is a woefully undemocratic institution by design even before republicans started abusing the filibuster), 56 senators out of 100 voted in favor of the bill and it didn't pass. You do realize that one of the basic, if not the most basic principle of democracy is that the side with the most votes wins, especially when that side has a majority of the vote.

Then go ahead and tell Harry to change the rules.

And why don't I click my heels three times to get the senate to disappear? Do you have any other vapid statements that you'd like to make?

#117 Posted by thegerg (15471 posts) -

@gamerguru100 said:

@thegerg said:

@-Toshy- said:

@thegerg said:

@-Toshy- said:
@fueled-system said:

how about actually eliminating worthless classes and the unreasonable need to take classes that serve no purpose to the field of study

This is a huge one. I'm currently majoring in Accounting at a Big Ten university and I'm required to take 60 credit hours of business/accounting courses and 79 credit hours of pure electives. Do I want to take extraneous classes just for the hell of it? Hell no. I would love to just take my required classes and graduate. But the university pushes unnecessary classes down our throats for the sole purpose of extending our time and getting more money from us. On top of that, I can't really justify not getting a degree because anyone looking over the resume would see I wouldn't have a bachelors and they would automatically throw it away.

"I'm required to take 60 credit hours of business/accounting courses and 79 credit hours of pure electives."

No. You're not required to to any such thing. You've chosen to take these classes.

"I would love to just take my required classes and graduate."

Then just do it.

When I say required classes, I'm talking about classes only related to business/accounting. I didn't choose to take courses unrelated to my major. They are legitimately required by the university in order to graduate. However I am almost done with my electives, so from here on out it's just classes related to my major.

"I didn't choose to take courses unrelated to my major."

Yes you did. You chose to enter this course of study.

Jesus fucking Christ, dude. Really gerg?

Yes, really. He made that choice.

#118 Posted by vfibsux (4205 posts) -

@-Sun_Tzu- said:

@vfibsux said:

@-Sun_Tzu- said:

@vfibsux said:

@-Sun_Tzu- said:

Senate votes 38-56 to strike down student loan bill

Is democracy dead in America?

ROFL@ the irony.

But yea, you liberals have never met a handout you didn't like.

What exactly is ironic?

Senate VOTES.......DEMOCRACY dead?

Umm (aside from the fact that the senate is a woefully undemocratic institution by design even before republicans started abusing the filibuster), 56 senators out of 100 voted in favor of the bill and it didn't pass. You do realize that one of the basic, if not the most basic principle of democracy is that the side with the most votes wins, especially when that side has a majority of the vote.

I refuse to reason with you because you say stupid liberal shit like "even before republicans started abusing the filibuster"...as if the Democrats don't abuse it. When libtards and right wing nutjobs start realizing the problem is EVERYONE in D.C. and all the lemmings that blindly follow R's and D's maybe we can get somewhere. As long as you continue to point the fingers at the other side and give yours a pass this is what we got.

And this was never a democracy, it is a representative republic, the irony was in your wording.

#119 Posted by vfibsux (4205 posts) -

@Master_Live said:

@-Sun_Tzu- said:

@vfibsux said:

@-Sun_Tzu- said:

@vfibsux said:

@-Sun_Tzu- said:

Senate votes 38-56 to strike down student loan bill

Is democracy dead in America?

ROFL@ the irony.

But yea, you liberals have never met a handout you didn't like.

What exactly is ironic?

Senate VOTES.......DEMOCRACY dead?

Umm (aside from the fact that the senate is a woefully undemocratic institution by design even before republicans started abusing the filibuster), 56 senators out of 100 voted in favor of the bill and it didn't pass. You do realize that one of the basic, if not the most basic principle of democracy is that the side with the most votes wins, especially when that side has a majority of the vote.

Then go ahead and tell Harry to change the rules.

Exactly. You see, the lemmings do not get this. They do not fix stuff like this when they have power because they abuse it as well. This is Washington politics, not Republican politics.

#120 Posted by -Sun_Tzu- (17384 posts) -

@vfibsux said:

@-Sun_Tzu- said:

@vfibsux said:

@-Sun_Tzu- said:

@vfibsux said:

@-Sun_Tzu- said:

Senate votes 38-56 to strike down student loan bill

Is democracy dead in America?

ROFL@ the irony.

But yea, you liberals have never met a handout you didn't like.

What exactly is ironic?

Senate VOTES.......DEMOCRACY dead?

Umm (aside from the fact that the senate is a woefully undemocratic institution by design even before republicans started abusing the filibuster), 56 senators out of 100 voted in favor of the bill and it didn't pass. You do realize that one of the basic, if not the most basic principle of democracy is that the side with the most votes wins, especially when that side has a majority of the vote.

I refuse to reason with you because you say stupid liberal shit like "even before republicans started abusing the filibuster"...as if the Democrats don't abuse it. When libtards and right wing nutjobs start realizing the problem is EVERYONE in D.C. and all the lemmings that blindly follow R's and D's maybe we can get somewhere. As long as you continue to point the fingers at the other side and give yours a pass this is what we got.

And this was never a democracy, it is a representative republic, the irony was in your wording.

lol

You're really a piece of work vib

#121 Posted by vfibsux (4205 posts) -

@-Sun_Tzu- said:

@vfibsux said:

@-Sun_Tzu- said:

@vfibsux said:

@-Sun_Tzu- said:

@vfibsux said:

@-Sun_Tzu- said:

Senate votes 38-56 to strike down student loan bill

Is democracy dead in America?

ROFL@ the irony.

But yea, you liberals have never met a handout you didn't like.

What exactly is ironic?

Senate VOTES.......DEMOCRACY dead?

Umm (aside from the fact that the senate is a woefully undemocratic institution by design even before republicans started abusing the filibuster), 56 senators out of 100 voted in favor of the bill and it didn't pass. You do realize that one of the basic, if not the most basic principle of democracy is that the side with the most votes wins, especially when that side has a majority of the vote.

I refuse to reason with you because you say stupid liberal shit like "even before republicans started abusing the filibuster"...as if the Democrats don't abuse it. When libtards and right wing nutjobs start realizing the problem is EVERYONE in D.C. and all the lemmings that blindly follow R's and D's maybe we can get somewhere. As long as you continue to point the fingers at the other side and give yours a pass this is what we got.

And this was never a democracy, it is a representative republic, the irony was in your wording.

lol

You're really a piece of work vib

If that is all you got out of this.....yep, I am 100% correct. You don't have shit to refute anything I said so you discredit, like all liberals do. The hell with you.

#122 Posted by gamerguru100 (10647 posts) -

@thegerg said:

@gamerguru100 said:

@thegerg said:

@-Toshy- said:

@thegerg said:

@-Toshy- said:
@fueled-system said:

how about actually eliminating worthless classes and the unreasonable need to take classes that serve no purpose to the field of study

This is a huge one. I'm currently majoring in Accounting at a Big Ten university and I'm required to take 60 credit hours of business/accounting courses and 79 credit hours of pure electives. Do I want to take extraneous classes just for the hell of it? Hell no. I would love to just take my required classes and graduate. But the university pushes unnecessary classes down our throats for the sole purpose of extending our time and getting more money from us. On top of that, I can't really justify not getting a degree because anyone looking over the resume would see I wouldn't have a bachelors and they would automatically throw it away.

"I'm required to take 60 credit hours of business/accounting courses and 79 credit hours of pure electives."

No. You're not required to to any such thing. You've chosen to take these classes.

"I would love to just take my required classes and graduate."

Then just do it.

When I say required classes, I'm talking about classes only related to business/accounting. I didn't choose to take courses unrelated to my major. They are legitimately required by the university in order to graduate. However I am almost done with my electives, so from here on out it's just classes related to my major.

"I didn't choose to take courses unrelated to my major."

Yes you did. You chose to enter this course of study.

Jesus fucking Christ, dude. Really gerg?

Yes, really. He made that choice.

I know I shouldn't be feeding you because I'm 99.9% sure you're trolling, but I'd say you're dumber than a box of rocks if you're actually serious.

#123 Posted by thegerg (15471 posts) -

@gamerguru100 said:

@thegerg said:

@gamerguru100 said:

@thegerg said:

@-Toshy- said:

@thegerg said:

@-Toshy- said:
@fueled-system said:

how about actually eliminating worthless classes and the unreasonable need to take classes that serve no purpose to the field of study

This is a huge one. I'm currently majoring in Accounting at a Big Ten university and I'm required to take 60 credit hours of business/accounting courses and 79 credit hours of pure electives. Do I want to take extraneous classes just for the hell of it? Hell no. I would love to just take my required classes and graduate. But the university pushes unnecessary classes down our throats for the sole purpose of extending our time and getting more money from us. On top of that, I can't really justify not getting a degree because anyone looking over the resume would see I wouldn't have a bachelors and they would automatically throw it away.

"I'm required to take 60 credit hours of business/accounting courses and 79 credit hours of pure electives."

No. You're not required to to any such thing. You've chosen to take these classes.

"I would love to just take my required classes and graduate."

Then just do it.

When I say required classes, I'm talking about classes only related to business/accounting. I didn't choose to take courses unrelated to my major. They are legitimately required by the university in order to graduate. However I am almost done with my electives, so from here on out it's just classes related to my major.

"I didn't choose to take courses unrelated to my major."

Yes you did. You chose to enter this course of study.

Jesus fucking Christ, dude. Really gerg?

Yes, really. He made that choice.

I know I shouldn't be feeding you because I'm 99.9% sure you're trolling, but I'd say you're dumber than a box of rocks if you're actually serious.

I'm not dumb, nor am I trolling. I am serious. He made that choice.

#124 Posted by gamerguru100 (10647 posts) -

@thegerg said:

@gamerguru100 said:

@thegerg said:

@gamerguru100 said:

@thegerg said:

@-Toshy- said:

@thegerg said:

@-Toshy- said:
@fueled-system said:

how about actually eliminating worthless classes and the unreasonable need to take classes that serve no purpose to the field of study

This is a huge one. I'm currently majoring in Accounting at a Big Ten university and I'm required to take 60 credit hours of business/accounting courses and 79 credit hours of pure electives. Do I want to take extraneous classes just for the hell of it? Hell no. I would love to just take my required classes and graduate. But the university pushes unnecessary classes down our throats for the sole purpose of extending our time and getting more money from us. On top of that, I can't really justify not getting a degree because anyone looking over the resume would see I wouldn't have a bachelors and they would automatically throw it away.

"I'm required to take 60 credit hours of business/accounting courses and 79 credit hours of pure electives."

No. You're not required to to any such thing. You've chosen to take these classes.

"I would love to just take my required classes and graduate."

Then just do it.

When I say required classes, I'm talking about classes only related to business/accounting. I didn't choose to take courses unrelated to my major. They are legitimately required by the university in order to graduate. However I am almost done with my electives, so from here on out it's just classes related to my major.

"I didn't choose to take courses unrelated to my major."

Yes you did. You chose to enter this course of study.

Jesus fucking Christ, dude. Really gerg?

Yes, really. He made that choice.

I know I shouldn't be feeding you because I'm 99.9% sure you're trolling, but I'd say you're dumber than a box of rocks if you're actually serious.

I'm not dumb, nor am I trolling. I am serious. He made that choice.

Nah, you're dumb. Sorry.

#125 Edited by -Sun_Tzu- (17384 posts) -

@vfibsux said:

I am 100% correct.

#126 Posted by Rich3232 (2754 posts) -

@airshocker said:

@Rich3232 said:

afaik, it's not even a real increase, more of just actually making sure the rich pay their share of taxes for once, and trust me they will benefit from this bill too. also, calm down m8, I'm not a democrat.

So it's not about helping the students at all. It's about increasing taxes. Good to know. I'm glad the Republicans blocked that bull shit.

It doesn't really matter if you aren't a Democrat. You're supporting a bill that is morally false. If you want to help students make a fucking bill that helps them. If it doesn't cost anything for these students to refinance, I'm fine with that. But don't attach shit that you know Republicans won't agree with and then try and act self-righteous when they refuse to bring it past consideration.

That's the kind of morally bankrupt bull shit people don't like on either side of the aisle.

M8 pls. It is about helping the students and the future economy. also, lol at the pretense that we can just provide services/programs for free. I sure fucking wish the businesses around here did the same.

#127 Posted by thegerg (15471 posts) -

@gamerguru100: There is no reason to insult anyone. Please try to act like an adult.

#128 Edited by gamerguru100 (10647 posts) -

@thegerg said:

@gamerguru100: There is no reason to insult anyone. Please try to act like an adult.

Sorry, but I can't ignore blatant stupidity.

#129 Posted by Rich3232 (2754 posts) -

@thegerg said:

@gamerguru100: There is no reason to insult anyone. Please try to act like an adult.

There is no reason to say there are no reasons to insult anyone. Please try to not generalize.

#130 Posted by gamerguru100 (10647 posts) -

@Rich3232 said:

@thegerg said:

@gamerguru100: There is no reason to insult anyone. Please try to act like an adult.

There is no reason to say there are no reasons to insult anyone. Please try to not generalize.

If thegerg actually went to college, he would quickly discover that you're forced to take a bunch of shitty useless classes that don't pertain to your major; colleges will say they do this because they want their graduates to be "well rounded". Well rounded, my ass. Sure, you might be majoring in nursing, but they'll have you take art and literature on the side along with several other useless courses to drain more money from you and push you deeper into debt. He's obviously never been to a mainstream college. That, or he lives in Europe, where post-secondary education is practically free. Goddamn it.

#131 Posted by HoolaHoopMan (7807 posts) -

@vfibsux said:

@-Sun_Tzu- said:

@vfibsux said:

@-Sun_Tzu- said:

Senate votes 38-56 to strike down student loan bill

Is democracy dead in America?

ROFL@ the irony.

But yea, you liberals have never met a handout you didn't like.

What exactly is ironic?

Senate VOTES.......DEMOCRACY dead?

56 voted in favor. Wouldn't that by itself mean that it should have democratically passed? lol

#132 Posted by Addict187 (626 posts) -
@BeardMaster said:

@Aljosa23 said:

lol pathetic. Two things I want to inquire about.

What the heck are they even doing to help current and future students?

Why does the cost keep going up if degrees aren't all that lucrative anymore?

because the minimum wage isnt keeping up with inflation, and college education is increasingly becoming the only hope of escaping poverty.

Back in the 50 ans 60s you could have one parent working at the local gas station or hanging drywall, and afford a house and family.

Nowadays you need 2 college educated parents working full time to even hope of accomplishing the same feat.

I hang drywall and make between $80,000- $140,000 a year I also have zero debt never went to school. I also pay only 7% in income tax after write offs. life is all good for a drywaller

#133 Edited by thegerg (15471 posts) -

@gamerguru100 said:

@Rich3232 said:

@thegerg said:

@gamerguru100: There is no reason to insult anyone. Please try to act like an adult.

There is no reason to say there are no reasons to insult anyone. Please try to not generalize.

If thegerg actually went to college, he would quickly discover that you're forced to take a bunch of shitty useless classes that don't pertain to your major; colleges will say they do this because they want their graduates to be "well rounded". Well rounded, my ass. Sure, you might be majoring in nursing, but they'll have you take art and literature on the side along with several other useless courses to drain more money from you and push you deeper into debt. He's obviously never been to a mainstream college. That, or he lives in Europe, where post-secondary education is practically free. Goddamn it.

You seem to be very confused. I did go to college, and I was not forced to do anything. As an adult I was responsible for my own decisions and actions. I was not forced into taking any classes, it was my choice to take every class that I took.

#134 Edited by gamerguru100 (10647 posts) -

@thegerg said:

@gamerguru100 said:

@Rich3232 said:

@thegerg said:

@gamerguru100: There is no reason to insult anyone. Please try to act like an adult.

There is no reason to say there are no reasons to insult anyone. Please try to not generalize.

If thegerg actually went to college, he would quickly discover that you're forced to take a bunch of shitty useless classes that don't pertain to your major; colleges will say they do this because they want their graduates to be "well rounded". Well rounded, my ass. Sure, you might be majoring in nursing, but they'll have you take art and literature on the side along with several other useless courses to drain more money from you and push you deeper into debt. He's obviously never been to a mainstream college. That, or he lives in Europe, where post-secondary education is practically free. Goddamn it.

You seem to be very confused. I did go to college, and I was not forced to do anything. As an adult I was responsible for my own decisions and actions. I was not forced into taking any classes, it was my choice to take every class that I took.

Also, I call bullshit if you went to a mainstream college. Not sure how vocational or trade schools work, but if you went to a run of the mill university or community college, I know for a fact that you're full of crap. Only reason I'm feeding you is because this forum is deader than shit on a stick, so what the hell.

#135 Posted by thegerg (15471 posts) -

@gamerguru100: I graduated from an accredited 4 year university. At no point was I forced to take any class. I chose to partake in the course of study necessary to earn my degree.

#136 Posted by whipassmt (14035 posts) -

@foxhound_fox said:

A good way to help students manage debt is to not embed in their minds when in school that college is the only way they can get a good job they can love.

Almost any career path offers advancement opportunities. Including flipping burgers at McDonalds or pushing carts at WalMart. The person just has to have the motivation to achieve.

Yep. Another way to reduce student debt would be for college to reduce their degree requirements so that people could get the degrees in less semesters or taking less classes per semester (and thus be able to work). I mean honestly why do colleges require the equivalent of an Algebra I class when students already passed Algebra II and Trig in high school? Same could be said of an English 101 class.

#137 Posted by airshocker (29930 posts) -

@Rich3232 said:

M8 pls. It is about helping the students and the future economy. also, lol at the pretense that we can just provide services/programs for free. I sure fucking wish the businesses around here did the same.

Refinancing federal student loans should cost billions of dollars for the federal government? If that's the case, how the fuck do banks make a profit by refinancing?

I won't support a tax increase of any kind.

#138 Posted by whipassmt (14035 posts) -

@-Sun_Tzu- said:

@vfibsux said:

@-Sun_Tzu- said:

@vfibsux said:

@-Sun_Tzu- said:

Senate votes 38-56 to strike down student loan bill

Is democracy dead in America?

ROFL@ the irony.

But yea, you liberals have never met a handout you didn't like.

What exactly is ironic?

Senate VOTES.......DEMOCRACY dead?

Umm (aside from the fact that the senate is a woefully undemocratic institution by design even before republicans started abusing the filibuster), 56 senators out of 100 voted in favor of the bill and it didn't pass. You do realize that one of the basic, if not the most basic principle of democracy is that the side with the most votes wins, especially when that side has a majority of the vote.

And one of the basic principles of the United States is that democracy is tapered to ensure that the majority does not ride roughshod over the minority. The Senate is designed in such a way to ensure that the minority party is still able to influence legislation, so that legislation is given adequate debate and thought through rather than just pushed through by a small majority without taking the views of the minority into account (the House is based on the opposite principle).

Also one of the reasons Republicans have filibustered so much legislation is because they want feel the bills have not had enough debate and because often times they are not allowed to offer amendments. Plus It's hard to criticize Republicans for filibustering Democratic bills, when Harry Reid won't bring Republican bills up for a vote -including ones that have already passed the House.

#139 Posted by achilles614 (4858 posts) -

@gamerguru100 said:

@Rich3232 said:

@thegerg said:

@gamerguru100: There is no reason to insult anyone. Please try to act like an adult.

There is no reason to say there are no reasons to insult anyone. Please try to not generalize.

If thegerg actually went to college, he would quickly discover that you're forced to take a bunch of shitty useless classes that don't pertain to your major; colleges will say they do this because they want their graduates to be "well rounded". Well rounded, my ass. Sure, you might be majoring in nursing, but they'll have you take art and literature on the side along with several other useless courses to drain more money from you and push you deeper into debt. He's obviously never been to a mainstream college. That, or he lives in Europe, where post-secondary education is practically free. Goddamn it.

I'm sorry, but in almost every instance I've been able to choose an elective that was beneficial to my major. Instead of taking General Speech, take a class on technical presentations. Instead of the basic computer class, I tested out of it and took a CAD course and a programming course.

Being well-rounded IS a good thing, you have to have something to talk about with your boss over lunch and those arts course can help.

A funny thing about modern college is that students are now paying record high prices yet their is a distinct trend to try to absorb as little information as possible. I'm talking about things like using Chegg and solutions manuals for coursework. If you're going to be "forced" to take classes, might as well take it as an opportunity to learn and expand your mind. Or bitch about it.

#140 Posted by -Sun_Tzu- (17384 posts) -

@whipassmt said:

@-Sun_Tzu- said:

@vfibsux said:

@-Sun_Tzu- said:

@vfibsux said:

@-Sun_Tzu- said:

Senate votes 38-56 to strike down student loan bill

Is democracy dead in America?

ROFL@ the irony.

But yea, you liberals have never met a handout you didn't like.

What exactly is ironic?

Senate VOTES.......DEMOCRACY dead?

Umm (aside from the fact that the senate is a woefully undemocratic institution by design even before republicans started abusing the filibuster), 56 senators out of 100 voted in favor of the bill and it didn't pass. You do realize that one of the basic, if not the most basic principle of democracy is that the side with the most votes wins, especially when that side has a majority of the vote.

And one of the basic principles of the United States is that democracy is tapered to ensure that the majority does not ride roughshod over the minority. The Senate is designed in such a way to ensure that the minority party is still able to influence legislation, so that legislation is given adequate debate and thought through rather than just pushed through by a small majority without taking the views of the minority into account (the House is based on the opposite principle).

Also one of the reasons Republicans have filibustered so much legislation is because they want feel the bills have not had enough debate and because often times they are not allowed to offer amendments. Plus It's hard to criticize Republicans for filibustering Democratic bills, when Harry Reid won't bring Republican bills up for a vote -including ones that have already passed the House.

How undemocratic should the senate be? It's already extremely unrepresentative of the American public. Its mere existence already serves as a check against the majority. Alexander Hamilton went through great lengths in the federalist papers arguing against supermajorities.

"The necessity of unanimity in public bodies, or of something approaching towards it, has been founded upon a supposition that it would contribute to security. But its real operation is to embarrass the administration, to destroy the energy of the government, and to substitute the pleasure, caprice, or artifices of an insignificant, turbulent, or corrupt junto, to the regular deliberations and decisions of a respectable majority. In those emergencies of a nation, in which the goodness or badness, the weakness or strength of its government, is of the greatest importance, there is commonly a necessity for action. The public business must, in some way or other, go forward. If a pertinacious minority can control the opinion of a majority, respecting the best mode of conducting it, the majority, in order that something may be done, must conform to the views of the minority; and thus the sense of the smaller number will overrule that of the greater, and give a tone to the national proceedings. Hence, tedious delays; continual negotiation and intrigue; contemptible compromises of the public good." - Federalist paper no. 22

If you didn't know any better you'd think he was talking about the GOP.

The filibuster in its current form transforms the modern day senate into a completely different type of institution than it had ever been prior. Its too damn bad that republicans aren't getting their bills put up for a vote - democrats control the senate thus they control the agenda. To the victor goes the spoils. American voters didn't elect a republican senate (they didn't really elect a republican house either, but I digress). If republicans want to vote on their bills they're going to have to actually win the senate. That's how it works in literally every other democratically elected legislature in the world. It's not like John Boehner goes out of his way to put democratic bills up for a vote. Don't feed me this crap about minority rights and how its really the democrats who are to blame for republican filibuster abuse. That's all just spin. The real reason for the GOP's excessive use of the filibuster is simple, they want to make it as hard as possible for democrats to effectively govern, and I think most republicans - if they're honest with themselves - are fine with that.

#141 Edited by Serraph105 (28164 posts) -

I know I've wondered this before, but I find myself contemplating how the republicans would/will react when they are continually blocked by the minority party on everything they attempt to do in the future. I don't want this to be the future of the democratic party (I want people to work together for the public), but it seems that when one party sets a precedent the other takes said precedent and ramps it up to a thousand while crying that the other guys did it first as if two wrongs suddenly make a right.

#142 Edited by jasean79 (2375 posts) -

@Serraph105 said:

I know I've wondered this before, but I find myself contemplating how the republicans would/will react when they are continually blocked by the minority party on everything they attempt to do in the future. I don't want this to be the future of the democratic party (I want people to work together for the public), but it seems that when one party sets a precedent the other takes said precedent and ramps it up to a thousand while crying that the other guys did it first as if two wrongs suddenly make a right.

Welcome to US politics, my friend!

#143 Edited by -Sun_Tzu- (17384 posts) -

@airshocker said:

Refinancing federal student loans should cost billions of dollars for the federal government? If that's the case, how the fuck do banks make a profit by refinancing?



lol

Alright well thank you for admitting that you have no idea what you're talking about.

The reason why refinancing federal student loans would increase the federal deficit is because refinancing typically lowers the monthly payments paid by the borrower, in exchange the borrower is in debt longer. This can often be to the lender's benefit as well because, among other things, it lowers the risk of the borrower defaulting, and since the borrower is in debt for a longer period of time they collect more in interest over the life of the loan.

#144 Posted by Serraph105 (28164 posts) -
@jasean79 said:

@Serraph105 said:

I know I've wondered this before, but I find myself contemplating how the republicans would/will react when they are continually blocked by the minority party on everything they attempt to do in the future. I don't want this to be the future of the democratic party (I want people to work together for the public), but it seems that when one party sets a precedent the other takes said precedent and ramps it up to a thousand while crying that the other guys did it first as if two wrongs suddenly make a right.

Welcome to US politics, my friend!

Oh I'm well aware that this is sort of how previously taboo actions in politics become acceptable, but this lack of government being able to accomplish literally anything is particularly corrosive to society. Just a few years ago people made graphs of the amount of filibusters used by each congress and how the 112th congress (the last one) blew away all previous ones. These days we seem to have moved from graphs showing the amount of filibustering, which btw a single member of congress can simply email in, to graphs illustrating the amount of legislation getting passed by congress which as you would expect is as record lows.

Don't get me wrong it's great for companies gaining more money since nobody wants to harm them in any way, but we no longer look out for the individuals of society. Eventually this lack of regulation will lead to monopolies (hell it already has looking at the comcast/time warner merger) that further harm not only individuals, but the market that society relies upon.

#145 Edited by -Sun_Tzu- (17384 posts) -

@Serraph105 said:
@jasean79 said:

@Serraph105 said:

I know I've wondered this before, but I find myself contemplating how the republicans would/will react when they are continually blocked by the minority party on everything they attempt to do in the future. I don't want this to be the future of the democratic party (I want people to work together for the public), but it seems that when one party sets a precedent the other takes said precedent and ramps it up to a thousand while crying that the other guys did it first as if two wrongs suddenly make a right.

Welcome to US politics, my friend!

Oh I'm well aware that this is sort of how previously taboo actions in politics become acceptable, but this lack of government being able to accomplish literally anything is particularly corrosive to society. Just a few years ago people made graphs of the amount of filibusters used by each congress and how the 112th congress (the last one) blew away all previous ones. These days we seem to have moved from graphs showing the amount of filibustering, which btw a single member of congress can simply email in, to graphs illustrating the amount of legislation getting passed by congress which as you would expect is as record lows.

Don't get me wrong it's great for companies gaining more money since nobody wants to harm them in any way, but we no longer look out for the individuals of society. Eventually this lack of regulation will lead to monopolies (hell it already has looking at the comcast/time warner merger) that further harm not only individuals, but the market that society relies upon.

The irony of it all is that the excessive filibustering by republicans only makes the executive branch (i.e. comrade Obama) all the more powerful. Making congress completely ineffectual creates a power vacuum that was never going to stay unfilled.

The republican strategy in congress isn't only destructive, it's also self-destructive (on a number of levels).

#146 Posted by Master_Live (14860 posts) -

@Serraph105 said:
@jasean79 said:

@Serraph105 said:

I know I've wondered this before, but I find myself contemplating how the republicans would/will react when they are continually blocked by the minority party on everything they attempt to do in the future. I don't want this to be the future of the democratic party (I want people to work together for the public), but it seems that when one party sets a precedent the other takes said precedent and ramps it up to a thousand while crying that the other guys did it first as if two wrongs suddenly make a right.

Welcome to US politics, my friend!

but this lack of government being able to accomplish literally anything

But that isn't the case.

#147 Posted by Jd1680a (5945 posts) -

What would happen if 5 million student loans went into default at the same time? The college bubble will be even worse then housing bubble if it were to pop. How would the government be able to handle a major financial crisis with $1 trillion of loans never come back?

#148 Edited by DaBrainz (7673 posts) -

It still is always about kickbacks. University administrators inflate the costs, make a ton of money, buy elections for Obama and his cronies, and then Obama facilitates the system by making it easier for kids to get into $10000s in unlimited school debt-money that goes to the school administers.

Do you idiots really not see the cycle? Do you not pay attention to the top campaign contributors?

#149 Posted by Serraph105 (28164 posts) -

@Master_Live said:

@Serraph105 said:
@jasean79 said:

@Serraph105 said:

I know I've wondered this before, but I find myself contemplating how the republicans would/will react when they are continually blocked by the minority party on everything they attempt to do in the future. I don't want this to be the future of the democratic party (I want people to work together for the public), but it seems that when one party sets a precedent the other takes said precedent and ramps it up to a thousand while crying that the other guys did it first as if two wrongs suddenly make a right.

Welcome to US politics, my friend!

but this lack of government being able to accomplish literally anything

But that isn't the case.

Your elaboration on the matter leaves much to discuss.

#150 Edited by Ackad (3183 posts) -

@Jd1680a said:

What would happen if 5 million student loans went into default at the same time? The college bubble will be even worse then housing bubble if it were to pop. How would the government be able to handle a major financial crisis with $1 trillion of loans never come back?

Well, to be exact, the current student loan debt is at $1.4 trillion. As for the debacle, the Federal Reserve can use the Open Market Operations strategy; through discount rates and the purchase of bonds. While the Fed initiates that role, the US Government can reduce its spending and temporarily decrease taxes in order to arouse consumer spending. Correct me if I'm wrong.