Israel or Palestine?

#1 Edited by BboyStatix (166 posts) -

Every day I'm seeing disturbing images of kids getting killed in Gaza which makes me wonder where humanity has gone. Then I see a lot of Israeli propaganda about Hamas using civilians as human shields by placing military settlements nearby civilian areas so that it would deter the IDF from bombing these places. But then again Gaza is such a densely populated region that I really wonder if innocents can avoid being the target of these bombings.

I also think it's wrong that Hamas is continually bombarding Israel with bombs but I heard that he is just fighting back? Like Israel broke the international law of occupying land that originally doesn't belong to them and broke a lot of UN sanctions. So then aren't the Palestinians simply fighting back to reclaim their land? Why are they being labelled as terrorists and would peace treaties really end the conflict? Because from what I see more than 12,000 Palestinian homes have been bulldozed over the past decades and they are being oppressed. So I don't see how a ceasefire would end the Israeli occupation.

I am saying this from my limited understanding of the issue at hand. Can anyone clarify?

#2 Edited by Star0 (443 posts) -

Honestly, this is not the place for that discussion. You're better off taking the time and doing some thorough research from multiple sources yourself.

You'll only come to one conclusion.

#3 Posted by Crunchy_Nuts (2749 posts) -

Palestinians retaliates when Israel attacks.
Israel retaliates when Palestine attacks.
Palestinians retaliates when Israel attacks.
Israel retaliates when Palestine attacks.
Palestinians retaliates when Israel attacks.
Israel retaliates when Palestine attacks.
It just goes on.

WWI happened and the Ottomans lost.
Allies broke up the empire, and Britain took the land known as Palestine/Israel.
Jews starting illegally and legally moving to territory known as Palestine.
This caused tension between Arabs and Jews.
Arabs also felt betrayed by the British for misleading them about who gets what land, as they feel they were promised more than they were actually given.
Brits put immigration ban onto Jews to pacify Arabs.
Jews start sneaking in and commit terrorist style acts against Arabs and Brits.
The British said fuck it and left everyone as the conflict was heating up.
British mandate ends and Israel declares independence.
The Arab league attacked independent Israel the next day.
The Arabs lost.
Israel expanded it's borders.
Massacres and skirmishes happened.
Conflict basically continues to this day.

I may be somewhat mistaken but this is how I remember learning about it.

#4 Posted by xdude85 (4431 posts) -

This thread is begging for trouble.

#5 Posted by BossPerson (9475 posts) -

oh god if kraychik and shadowmoses were still here

#6 Posted by whipassmt (14035 posts) -

It is worth noting that in regards to the fighting currently going on Egypt has proposed some cease-fire terms, Israel accepted but Hamas rejected the terms. So the conflict is still going on because of Hamas' choice.

The reason why Hamas is considered a terrorist group is because it deliberately targets civilians. Israel does not do so, the Israelis are interested in negotiating some sort of long-term peace, but Hamas won't even recognize Israel's right to exist.

#7 Posted by BossPerson (9475 posts) -

@whipassmt said:

It is worth noting that in regards to the fighting currently going on Egypt has proposed some cease-fire terms, Israel accepted but Hamas rejected the terms. So the conflict is still going on because of Hamas' choice.

The reason why Hamas is considered a terrorist group is because it deliberately targets civilians. Israel does not do so, the Israelis are interested in negotiating some sort of long-term peace, but Hamas won't even recognize Israel's right to exist.

to be fair, i don't think palestinians care whether or not they are being "deliberately targeted or not" when the effect feels like they are

#8 Posted by whipassmt (14035 posts) -

@BossPerson said:

@whipassmt said:

It is worth noting that in regards to the fighting currently going on Egypt has proposed some cease-fire terms, Israel accepted but Hamas rejected the terms. So the conflict is still going on because of Hamas' choice.

The reason why Hamas is considered a terrorist group is because it deliberately targets civilians. Israel does not do so, the Israelis are interested in negotiating some sort of long-term peace, but Hamas won't even recognize Israel's right to exist.

to be fair, i don't think palestinians care whether or not they are being "deliberately targeted or not" when the effect feels like they are

Yeah. I know what you mean. It's easy for us to intellectualize this stuff, but for people who are having their houses bombed and all that because Hamas is putting rockets nearby, it's a whole other story, and the emotions of it will affect their thinking.

#9 Posted by lostrib (37774 posts) -

@Crunchy_Nuts said:

Palestinians retaliates when Israel attacks.

Israel retaliates when Palestine attacks.

Palestinians retaliates when Israel attacks.

Israel retaliates when Palestine attacks.

Palestinians retaliates when Israel attacks.

Israel retaliates when Palestine attacks.

It just goes on.

WWI happened and the Ottomans lost.

Allies broke up the empire, and Britain took the land known as Palestine/Israel.

Jews starting illegally and legally moving to territory known as Palestine.

This caused tension between Arabs and Jews.

Arabs also felt betrayed by the British for misleading them about who gets what land, as they feel they were promised more than they were actually given.

Brits put immigration ban onto Jews to pacify Arabs.

Jews start sneaking in and commit terrorist style acts against Arabs and Brits.

The British said fuck it and left everyone as the conflict was heating up.

British mandate ends and Israel declares independence.

The Arab league attacked independent Israel the next day.

The Arabs lost.

Israel expanded it's borders.

Massacres and skirmishes happened.

Conflict basically continues to this day.

I may be somewhat mistaken but this is how I remember learning about it.

So what you're saying is we should all be blaming the British

#10 Edited by erazor51 (321 posts) -

@BboyStatix:

This video has your answer and it's only a few mins long.

#11 Edited by Crunchy_Nuts (2749 posts) -

@lostrib: You could blame the Brits for governing the region poorly. You could also blame the Arabs for not wanting to move out of the land and letting the Jews take it. You could also blame the Jews for the fanatical Zionist movement and attacking Arabs.

#12 Posted by erazor51 (321 posts) -

@Crunchy_Nuts:

"You could also blame the Arabs for not wanting to move out of the land and letting the Jews take it"

Seriously? it was their land, their country, why should they move?

#13 Edited by Crunchy_Nuts (2749 posts) -

@erazor51: Because the Arab leadership failed to understand what they had agreed to with the British. The British and Arabs had different ideas of where the Arab borders would be after they revolted against the Turks.

It shuld also be noted that the British were signing contradictory agreements with many different people so a large part of the blame lies on them.

#14 Posted by pariah3 (1000 posts) -
@erazor51 said:

Seriously? it was their land, their country, why should they move?

What the hell are you talking about? Jews were in the land of Israel (the promised land) long before the Arabs.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/myths3/MFroots.html#1

You guys have no idea what you're talking about.

#15 Posted by Crunchy_Nuts (2749 posts) -

@pariah3 said:
@erazor51 said:

Seriously? it was their land, their country, why should they move?

What the hell are you talking about? Jews were in the land of Israel (the promised land) long before the Arabs.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/myths3/MFroots.html#1

You guys have no idea what you're talking about.

They were there and they were exiled, a lot also left of their own accord. Regardless of who lived there thousands of years ago the Arabs were the vast majority in the area before the current conflict.

#16 Posted by fgjnfgh (2630 posts) -

@erazor51 said:

@BboyStatix:

This video has your answer and it's only a few mins long.

yeh that guy on the phone took it heavily lol

#17 Posted by Newhopes (4587 posts) -

I have nothing against Jews but Israel should never have been created.

#18 Posted by Crunchy_Nuts (2749 posts) -

@Newhopes said:

I have nothing against Jews but Israel should never have been created.

Jews should never have been allowed back into Palestine or in independent Jewish state should never have been created?

#19 Edited by -Sun_Tzu- (17384 posts) -

@erazor51 said:

@BboyStatix:

This video has your answer and it's only a few mins long.

lmao george galloway

amazing people still take this guy seriously

#20 Posted by bforrester420 (1662 posts) -

@lostrib said:

@Crunchy_Nuts said:

Palestinians retaliates when Israel attacks.

Israel retaliates when Palestine attacks.

Palestinians retaliates when Israel attacks.

Israel retaliates when Palestine attacks.

Palestinians retaliates when Israel attacks.

Israel retaliates when Palestine attacks.

It just goes on.

WWI happened and the Ottomans lost.

Allies broke up the empire, and Britain took the land known as Palestine/Israel.

Jews starting illegally and legally moving to territory known as Palestine.

This caused tension between Arabs and Jews.

Arabs also felt betrayed by the British for misleading them about who gets what land, as they feel they were promised more than they were actually given.

Brits put immigration ban onto Jews to pacify Arabs.

Jews start sneaking in and commit terrorist style acts against Arabs and Brits.

The British said fuck it and left everyone as the conflict was heating up.

British mandate ends and Israel declares independence.

The Arab league attacked independent Israel the next day.

The Arabs lost.

Israel expanded it's borders.

Massacres and skirmishes happened.

Conflict basically continues to this day.

I may be somewhat mistaken but this is how I remember learning about it.

So what you're saying is we should all be blaming the British

Pretty much. UK pretty much caused most of the mess in the Middle East when they drew up the maps after WWI and WWII.

#21 Posted by themajormayor (25854 posts) -

@Crunchy_Nuts said:

@pariah3 said:
@erazor51 said:

Seriously? it was their land, their country, why should they move?

What the hell are you talking about? Jews were in the land of Israel (the promised land) long before the Arabs.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/myths3/MFroots.html#1

You guys have no idea what you're talking about.

They were there and they were exiled, a lot also left of their own accord. Regardless of who lived there thousands of years ago the Arabs were the vast majority in the area before the current conflict.

But they aren't anymore. I don't understand this argument. No one should move.

#22 Posted by themajormayor (25854 posts) -
@Newhopes said:

I have nothing against Jews but Israel should never have been created.

Sounds like you have something against Jews.

#23 Posted by sonicare (53485 posts) -

I only know what I see in the media, so I assume that my version is heavily edited.

#24 Posted by -Sun_Tzu- (17384 posts) -

@themajormayor said:

No one should move.

That is very convenient to say, especially when it's said absent of context. There's a reason why Arabs are no longer a majority in the region and by extension why there has been a prolonged refugee crisis that's gone on for roughly three generations.

#25 Posted by themajormayor (25854 posts) -

@-Sun_Tzu- said:

@themajormayor said:

No one should move.

That is very convenient to say, especially when it's said absent of context. There's a reason why Arabs are no longer a majority in the region and by extension why there has been a prolonged refugee crisis that's gone on for roughly three generations.

No it's not very convenient. I just don't think no one should move. There are several reasons why they are not the majority, and what does that have to do with that I think that no one should move?

#26 Edited by -Sun_Tzu- (17384 posts) -

@themajormayor said:

@-Sun_Tzu- said:

@themajormayor said:

No one should move.

That is very convenient to say, especially when it's said absent of context. There's a reason why Arabs are no longer a majority in the region and by extension why there has been a prolonged refugee crisis that's gone on for roughly three generations.

No it's not very convenient. I just don't think no one should move. There are several reasons why they are not the majority, and what does that have to do with that I think that no one should move?

If you truthfully do not see the convenience in your statement then you are simply not being honest with yourself. I find it very difficult to believe that you would take the same stance if the roles were reversed, or that you actually believe your little trope in the first place. It's an incredibly disingenuous statement to make.

Moreover, I don't think there is anyone who is heavily involved/invested in the Israeli/Palestinian conflict that actually believes that "no one should move" regardless of where they fall on the political spectrum, no one supports the status quo. That is the single point that everyone from hard-right Zionists to radical anti-Zionist Palestinian nationalists can agree on - people are going to have to move, the entire conflict stems from the debate over who should move.

#27 Posted by Emil_Fontz (306 posts) -

I personally don't favor either country, but I must admit that the manner in which Israel came into existence was unjust; it was wrong and should have been illegal according to international law to form a country for a group of people who had no recent historical ties to the land and whose justification for seizing the land was mere religious folklore.

#28 Posted by themajormayor (25854 posts) -

@-Sun_Tzu- said:

@themajormayor said:

@-Sun_Tzu- said:

@themajormayor said:

No one should move.

That is very convenient to say, especially when it's said absent of context. There's a reason why Arabs are no longer a majority in the region and by extension why there has been a prolonged refugee crisis that's gone on for roughly three generations.

No it's not very convenient. I just don't think no one should move. There are several reasons why they are not the majority, and what does that have to do with that I think that no one should move?

If you truthfully do not see the convenience in your statement then you are simply not being honest with yourself. I find it very difficult to believe that you would take the same stance if the roles were reversed, or that you actually believe your little trope in the first place. It's an incredibly disingenuous statement to make.

Moreover, I don't think there is anyone who is heavily involved/invested in the Israeli/Palestinian conflict that actually believes that "no one should move" regardless of where they fall on the political spectrum, no one supports the status quo. That is the single point that everyone from hard-right Zionists to radical anti-Zionist Palestinian nationalists can agree on - people are going to have to move, the entire conflict stems from the debate over who should move.

Maybe we misunderstand each other here. I just don't think anyone should move, away from the region I might add. Why would I think that? I don't understand what is so weird with someone from either role having such a view.

No the mainstream debate is about whether settlers should move and in that case how many. No one in the mainstream debate is really saying that the Palestinians should move or the Jews. It doesn't mean that you support status quo.

#29 Edited by Newhopes (4587 posts) -

@Crunchy_Nuts said:

@Newhopes said:

I have nothing against Jews but Israel should never have been created.

Jews should never have been allowed back into Palestine or in independent Jewish state should never have been created?

Basically Israel was created by the British by stealing land from the palestinians, I'am not against a Jewish state but doing it by stealing somebodies else's land was just asking for trouble.

#30 Posted by themajormayor (25854 posts) -

@Crunchy_Nuts said:

@lostrib: You could blame the Brits for governing the region poorly. You could also blame the Arabs for not wanting to move out of the land and letting the Jews take it. You could also blame the Jews for the fanatical Zionist movement and attacking Arabs.

You cannot blame the Arabs for that. You can however blame them for massacring Jews in the area before any Jews attacked any Arabs.

#31 Edited by sonicare (53485 posts) -

@Newhopes said:

@Crunchy_Nuts said:

@Newhopes said:

I have nothing against Jews but Israel should never have been created.

Jews should never have been allowed back into Palestine or in independent Jewish state should never have been created?

Basically Israel was created by the British by stealing land from the palestinians, I'am not against a Jewish state but doing it by stealing somebodies else's land was just asking for trouble.

Isnt that how many countries originated? The US, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, much of central and south america all involved displacing one group for another. I'm sure that many other countries throughout Europe and Asia also do not have the original, indigenous populations.

#32 Posted by themajormayor (25854 posts) -

@emil_fontz said:

I personally don't favor either country, but I must admit that the manner in which Israel came into existence was unjust; it was wrong and should have been illegal according to international law to form a country for a group of people who had no recent historical ties to the land and whose justification for seizing the land was mere religious folklore.

They had recent historical ties. That was definitely not the justification. The "founding of fathers" of Israel were largely secular atheist socialists you know?

#33 Posted by themajormayor (25854 posts) -

@Newhopes said:

@Crunchy_Nuts said:

@Newhopes said:

I have nothing against Jews but Israel should never have been created.

Jews should never have been allowed back into Palestine or in independent Jewish state should never have been created?

Basically Israel was created by the British by stealing land from the palestinians, I'am not against a Jewish state but doing it by stealing somebodies else's land was just asking for trouble.

Israel was not created by the British. Israel was not created by stealing any land, what land would that be specifically?

#34 Posted by -Sun_Tzu- (17384 posts) -

@themajormayor said:

No one in the mainstream debate is really saying that the Palestinians should move or the Jews.

lol that's a very narrow definition of mainstream you have there.

And while part of the debate is whether or not Jewish settlers should be moving (either into occupied territory or evicted from it), the debate certainly doesn't end there. One of the largest obstacles to peace is the concept of a right of return. Should Palestinian refugees be allowed to move back to their homes? That's not a fringe question. And the belief that Israel shouldn't exist all together is prominent within the Arab mainstream. And on the other side of the coin there's the elephant that's currently sitting in the room and that is the roughly 1.65 million Arabs that are living in Israel. There existence gives many Israelis...existential unease, for lack of a better term. That's not to say that there residency isn't tolerated by most, but it's complicated.

#35 Posted by -Sun_Tzu- (17384 posts) -

@themajormayor said:

Israel was not created by stealing any land, what land would that be specifically?

Ramle, Lydda, Beersheba, need I go on?

#36 Posted by playmynutz (6071 posts) -

Palestine is not the only country in the world that lost land because of war, it happens. I say we all hold hands but whatever

#37 Posted by AmazonTreeBoa (16745 posts) -

Just bomb the strip back to the stone age, bulldoze it, and build condos.

#38 Posted by redstorm72 (4588 posts) -

I generally side with Israel. Yeah, they are kind of dicks, but I would be too if I were in their position. They were run out of their homeland centuries ago, suffered the worst atrocity in human history in the holocaust, and when they did get their homeland back their Arab neighbors invaded them on three separate occasions (48, 67, 73). It sucks what happened and is happening to Palestine, but they are not the first country to lose land, and not the last to suffer civilian casualties in war. In regard to the current conflict in Gaza, I know if Greenland start firing rockets at my home country of Canada, threatening my friends and family, I would have no qualms about bombing the living fuck out of them.

#39 Edited by Emil_Fontz (306 posts) -
@redstorm72 said:

I generally side with Israel. Yeah, they are kind of dicks, but I would be too if I were in their position. They were run out of their homeland centuries ago, suffered the worst atrocity in human history in the holocaust, and when they did get their homeland back their Arab neighbors invaded them on three separate occasions (48, 67, 73). It sucks what happened and is happening to Palestine, but they are not the first country to lose land, and not the last to suffer civilian casualties in war. In regard to the current conflict in Gaza, I know if Greenland start firing rockets at my home country of Canada, threatening my friends and family, I would have no qualms about bombing the living fuck out of them.

A people cannot claim land that their FOREFATHERS lost centuries ago. What's done is done.

#40 Posted by redstorm72 (4588 posts) -

@emil_fontz said:
@redstorm72 said:

I generally side with Israel. Yeah, they are kind of dicks, but I would be too if I were in their position. They were run out of their homeland centuries ago, suffered the worst atrocity in human history in the holocaust, and when they did get their homeland back their Arab neighbors invaded them on three separate occasions (48, 67, 73). It sucks what happened and is happening to Palestine, but they are not the first country to lose land, and not the last to suffer civilian casualties in war. In regard to the current conflict in Gaza, I know if Greenland start firing rockets at my home country of Canada, threatening my friends and family, I would have no qualms about bombing the living fuck out of them.

A people cannot claim land that their FOREFATHERS lost centuries ago. What's done is done.

Awesome. So Israel just needs to wait another 50 years or so until all the people in Palestine that were alive when it was independent die, then Israel can claim uncontested ownership of it. Cool beans.

#41 Posted by foxhound_fox (88771 posts) -

Palestine has legitimate claim to the land (they've had claim to the land since the Crusade where the Muslims won it back from the Catholic Church). But both sides are handling it so stupidly that I don't think either deserve it.

#42 Posted by LJS9502_basic (151500 posts) -

@emil_fontz said:
@redstorm72 said:

I generally side with Israel. Yeah, they are kind of dicks, but I would be too if I were in their position. They were run out of their homeland centuries ago, suffered the worst atrocity in human history in the holocaust, and when they did get their homeland back their Arab neighbors invaded them on three separate occasions (48, 67, 73). It sucks what happened and is happening to Palestine, but they are not the first country to lose land, and not the last to suffer civilian casualties in war. In regard to the current conflict in Gaza, I know if Greenland start firing rockets at my home country of Canada, threatening my friends and family, I would have no qualms about bombing the living fuck out of them.

A people cannot claim land that their FOREFATHERS lost centuries ago. What's done is done.

Israel is there NOW. Using your logic.....it's theirs. Time to move on from that.

#43 Edited by themajormayor (25854 posts) -

@-Sun_Tzu- said:

@themajormayor said:

Israel was not created by stealing any land, what land would that be specifically?

Ramle, Lydda, Beersheba, need I go on?

Israel had already been created. What are you talking about? Also, while I could to some extent agree that theft of private property occured there was no theft of territory or land on a political level.

#44 Edited by themajormayor (25854 posts) -

@-Sun_Tzu- said:

@themajormayor said:

No one in the mainstream debate is really saying that the Palestinians should move or the Jews.

lol that's a very narrow definition of mainstream you have there.

And while part of the debate is whether or not Jewish settlers should be moving (either into occupied territory or evicted from it), the debate certainly doesn't end there. One of the largest obstacles to peace is the concept of a right of return. Should Palestinian refugees be allowed to move back to their homes? That's not a fringe question. And the belief that Israel shouldn't exist all together is prominent within the Arab mainstream. And on the other side of the coin there's the elephant that's currently sitting in the room and that is the roughly 1.65 million Arabs that are living in Israel. There existence gives many Israelis...existential unease, for lack of a better term. That's not to say that there residency isn't tolerated by most, but it's complicated.

No it's not.

Yes ok. I was talking about moving away from the region. I think I said that. But yeah obviously.

I don't think there is any existential unease over the arabs living in Israel. There is no reaon to and I'm trying to find a poll showing it was only a minority who see arabs as a demogaphic threat.

#45 Posted by The_Last_Ride (72470 posts) -

Palestine, has no air force, navy or military. They are being thrown out of their homes, beaten, tortured and killed. Israel even have the Iron Dome to shoot down the rockets. So far they have lost one compared to 200 in Palestine. Also over a 1000 injured aswell

#46 Posted by -Sun_Tzu- (17384 posts) -

@themajormayor said:

Israel had already been created. What are you talking about? Also, while I could to some extent agree that theft of private property occured there was no theft of territory or land on a political level.

lol wtf is this even suppose to mean? What "political" claim did Jews have to these Arab communities? Stop bullshitting around the issue it just makes you sound like an idiot. I'm not levying any sort of condemnation against Israel per se but these things did happen.

@themajormayor said:

@-Sun_Tzu- said:

@themajormayor said:

No one in the mainstream debate is really saying that the Palestinians should move or the Jews.

lol that's a very narrow definition of mainstream you have there.

And while part of the debate is whether or not Jewish settlers should be moving (either into occupied territory or evicted from it), the debate certainly doesn't end there. One of the largest obstacles to peace is the concept of a right of return. Should Palestinian refugees be allowed to move back to their homes? That's not a fringe question. And the belief that Israel shouldn't exist all together is prominent within the Arab mainstream. And on the other side of the coin there's the elephant that's currently sitting in the room and that is the roughly 1.65 million Arabs that are living in Israel. There existence gives many Israelis...existential unease, for lack of a better term. That's not to say that there residency isn't tolerated by most, but it's complicated.

No it's not.

Yes ok. I was talking about moving away from the region. I think I said that. But yeah obviously.

I don't think there is any existential unease over the arabs living in Israel. There is no reaon to and I'm trying to find a poll showing it was only a minority who see arabs as a demogaphic threat.

There is plenty of reason to see Israeli Arabs residing in a Jewish state as a demographic threat. The current minister of foreign affairs has been adamant for over a decade that the continued inclusion of these Arabs in Israel is a non-starter for the peace process. In his opinion they don't belong in Israel. His party, Yisrael Beiteinu, is not a fringe party. Until very recently it was formerly aligned with Likud.

#47 Posted by Wilfred_Owen (20877 posts) -

Oh hell nah. I wouldn't hit that shit even if it was wrapped with a 30 gallon hefty trash bag.

#48 Edited by themajormayor (25854 posts) -

@-Sun_Tzu- said:

@themajormayor said:

Israel had already been created. What are you talking about? Also, while I could to some extent agree that theft of private property occured there was no theft of territory or land on a political level.

lol wtf is this even suppose to mean? What "political" claim did Jews have to these Arab communities? Stop bullshitting around the issue it just makes you sound like an idiot. I'm not levying any sort of condemnation against Israel per se but these things did happen.

@themajormayor said:

@-Sun_Tzu- said:

@themajormayor said:

No one in the mainstream debate is really saying that the Palestinians should move or the Jews.

lol that's a very narrow definition of mainstream you have there.

And while part of the debate is whether or not Jewish settlers should be moving (either into occupied territory or evicted from it), the debate certainly doesn't end there. One of the largest obstacles to peace is the concept of a right of return. Should Palestinian refugees be allowed to move back to their homes? That's not a fringe question. And the belief that Israel shouldn't exist all together is prominent within the Arab mainstream. And on the other side of the coin there's the elephant that's currently sitting in the room and that is the roughly 1.65 million Arabs that are living in Israel. There existence gives many Israelis...existential unease, for lack of a better term. That's not to say that there residency isn't tolerated by most, but it's complicated.

No it's not.

Yes ok. I was talking about moving away from the region. I think I said that. But yeah obviously.

I don't think there is any existential unease over the arabs living in Israel. There is no reaon to and I'm trying to find a poll showing it was only a minority who see arabs as a demogaphic threat.

There is plenty of reason to see Israeli Arabs residing in a Jewish state as a demographic threat. The current minister of foreign affairs has been adamant for over a decade that the continued inclusion of these Arabs in Israel is a non-starter for the peace process. In his opinion they don't belong in Israel. His party, Yisrael Beiteinu, is not a fringe party. Until very recently it was formerly aligned with Likud.

That private property being allocated to Jews is theft. But I was not talking about Jews, I was talking about Israel. Those territories coming under Israeli sovereignty is not theft.

No not really. They're not a demographic threat. And I think most Israelis agree with me. But yeah I guess it's not a fringe view but nevertheless a minority view. But they're just a bunch of silly billies.

#49 Posted by -Sun_Tzu- (17384 posts) -

@themajormayor said:

That private property being allocated to Jews is theft. But I was not talking about Jews, I was talking about Israel. Those territories coming under Israeli sovereignty is not theft.

What political claim did Israel have to these Arab communities? How does the (at times systematic) expulsion of Arabs from Arab communities by the IDF not constitute as theft by Israel? Don't gerg the issue here. It is OK to acknowledge facts.

#50 Posted by themajormayor (25854 posts) -

@-Sun_Tzu- said:

@themajormayor said:

That private property being allocated to Jews is theft. But I was not talking about Jews, I was talking about Israel. Those territories coming under Israeli sovereignty is not theft.

What political claim did Israel have to these Arab communities? How does the (at times systematic) expulsion of Arabs from Arab communities by the IDF not constitute as theft by Israel? Don't gerg the issue here. It is OK to acknowledge facts.

No no I agree that it is theft. That's why I'm talking about private property. Expelling them and taking their property or just taking their property because they fled or whatever is theft according to me. However as I said, just those territories coming under Israeli sovereignty is not theft.