Gun Control: freedom or security?

[QUOTE="htekemerald"]

[QUOTE="magnax1"]

I'll find the statistics in a bit, but one example is the gun restrictions in 1996 in Great Britain. Huge rise in crimes since the bill was passed. Mainly gun crimes.

EDIT: Found an article. It says from 97-01 the rate of violent crime doubled.

http://reason.com/archives/2002/11/01/gun-controls-twisted-outcome

There basically is no logical arguement FOR gun control.

heres also one for Australia. And this is only for the 1st year.

http://www.snopes.com/crime/statistics/ausguns.asp

magnax1

Right wing gun website vs The British Government Go Go Battle Royal

http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/pdfs2/hosb702.pdf

Waiting for real non-anecdotal data on Australia.

Lol, so they just decided the other statistics are bogus? Maybe its because one side is biased? (Maybe the one that made the bill, and wants to keep its jobs?Just a guess?)

And how the hell is the data on Australia anecdotal?

Oh the other sides stats are good, they just choose (intentionaly) to neglect to take into account changes in the law and data collection to make their point of view look right. Quite dishonest.

And your snopes blog post is quite funny... Eveidently taking away a few guns from a country that had next to no guns to begin with has drastically increased the crime rate. Better yet their logic take another hit when they start extrapolating data based on a less than 1 year period.

I don't know exactly what you guys are talking about, since I live in Europe but I would prefer to live in a society where normal citizens don't have guns. Why does everybody in the US need a gun for? Is there a war going on in the US that I am not aware of lol??? Surely crime can't be that bad.....

I honestly don't get the obsession with guns in the US, no other western developed nation is so obsest with guns. Guns are dangerous and they only give psychos a way of killing people. Every year there are many school shootings in the US, I wonder why... A kid gets a bad grade, goes home and takes dad's gun and goes on a shooting spree. And you people think everyone owning a gun means safer society???

I would feel less safe knowing everyone around me has a lethal weapon in their pocket. Glad I live in society where almost nobody has a gun.

I don't know exactly what you guys are talking about, since I live in Europe but I would prefer to live in a society where normal citizens don't have guns. Why does everybody in the US need a gun for? Is there a war going on in the US that I am not aware of lol??? Surely crime can't be that bad.....

I honestly don't get the obsession with guns in the US, no other western developed nation is so obsest with guns. Guns are dangerous and they only give psychos a way of killing people. Every year there are many school shootings in the US, I wonder why... A kid gets a bad grade, goes home and takes dad's gun and goes on a shooting spree. And you people think everyone owning a gun means safer society???

I would feel less safe knowing everyone around me has a lethal weapon in their pocket. Glad I live in society where almost nobody has a gun.

Mitjastiskovski

Governments love gun control. Especially the totalitarian states. Gives them control over the people.

I don't know exactly what you guys are talking about, since I live in Europe but I would prefer to live in a society where normal citizens don't have guns. Why does everybody in the US need a gun for? Is there a war going on in the US that I am not aware of lol??? Surely crime can't be that bad.....

I honestly don't get the obsession with guns in the US, no other western developed nation is so obsest with guns. Guns are dangerous and they only give psychos a way of killing people. Every year there are many school shootings in the US, I wonder why... A kid gets a bad grade, goes home and takes dad's gun and goes on a shooting spree. And you people think everyone owning a gun means safer society???

I would feel less safe knowing everyone around me has a lethal weapon in their pocket. Glad I live in society where almost nobody has a gun.

Mitjastiskovski

The reason why guns are so important is because our government actually trusts us to own guns. The original idea of owning a firearm was to keep the government in check but it can also reduce crime, though there is no denial there will be accidents. But then again, accidents occur everyday from everyday things.

I'm surprised you feel safe in Europe, despite the lack of guns. Aren't you worried about the ever-growing Islamic extremist groups in your continent, yet alone the lack of government action, growing unemployment, and crime rate?

i say security. i dont get how you can have freedom with a gun

hiphopballer

"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."

~Ben Franklin

Also, it's human instinct to defend themselves and be self reliant. Get rid of that, you get a nanny state that may not always be so reliable, yet alone, fair.

I don't know exactly what you guys are talking about, since I live in Europe but I would prefer to live in a society where normal citizens don't have guns.Mitjastiskovski

Governments love gun control. Especially the totalitarian states. Gives them control over the people.

[QUOTE="Mitjastiskovski"]

I don't know exactly what you guys are talking about, since I live in Europe but I would prefer to live in a society where normal citizens don't have guns. Why does everybody in the US need a gun for? Is there a war going on in the US that I am not aware of lol??? Surely crime can't be that bad.....

I honestly don't get the obsession with guns in the US, no other western developed nation is so obsest with guns. Guns are dangerous and they only give psychos a way of killing people. Every year there are many school shootings in the US, I wonder why... A kid gets a bad grade, goes home and takes dad's gun and goes on a shooting spree. And you people think everyone owning a gun means safer society???

I would feel less safe knowing everyone around me has a lethal weapon in their pocket. Glad I live in society where almost nobody has a gun.

leviathan91

The reason why guns are so important is because our government actually trusts us to own guns. The original idea of owning a firearm was to keep the government in check but it can also reduce crime, though there is no denial there will be accidents. But then again, accidents occur everyday from everyday things.

I'm surprised you feel safe in Europe, despite the lack of guns. Aren't you worried about the ever-growing Islamic extremist groups in your continent, yet alone the lack of government action, growing unemployment, and crime rate?

I feel totally save in Europe. I been to almost every country in europe and nothing bad has ever happened to me. Only thing that has ever happen in my 20 years is that one time someone broke into my house and stole a couple of things and that's it. I also don't know where you get the islamic extremist groups threat from, there's almost none of them here or around europe. Growing unemployment is going up, all around the world even in the US and from my experience and my friends there's hardly any crime rate. There are hardly any gun crimes here in the UK and no school shootings, something that sadly happens every year in the US.

[QUOTE="leviathan91"]

Governments love gun control. Especially the totalitarian states. Gives them control over the people.

[QUOTE="Mitjastiskovski"]

I don't know exactly what you guys are talking about, since I live in Europe but I would prefer to live in a society where normal citizens don't have guns. Why does everybody in the US need a gun for? Is there a war going on in the US that I am not aware of lol??? Surely crime can't be that bad.....

I honestly don't get the obsession with guns in the US, no other western developed nation is so obsest with guns. Guns are dangerous and they only give psychos a way of killing people. Every year there are many school shootings in the US, I wonder why... A kid gets a bad grade, goes home and takes dad's gun and goes on a shooting spree. And you people think everyone owning a gun means safer society???

I would feel less safe knowing everyone around me has a lethal weapon in their pocket. Glad I live in society where almost nobody has a gun.

Mitjastiskovski

The reason why guns are so important is because our government actually trusts us to own guns. The original idea of owning a firearm was to keep the government in check but it can also reduce crime, though there is no denial there will be accidents. But then again, accidents occur everyday from everyday things.

I'm surprised you feel safe in Europe, despite the lack of guns. Aren't you worried about the ever-growing Islamic extremist groups in your continent, yet alone the lack of government action, growing unemployment, and crime rate?

I feel totally save in Europe. I been to almost every country in europe and nothing bad has ever happened to me. Only thing that has ever happen in my 20 years is that one time someone broke into my house and stole a couple of things and that's it. I also don't know where you get the islamic extremist groups threat from, there's almost none of them here or around europe. Growing unemployment is going up, all around the world even in the US and from my experience and my friends there's hardly any crime rate. There are hardly any gun crimes here in the UK and no school shootings, something that sadly happens every year in the US.

[QUOTE="Mitjastiskovski"]

I don't know exactly what you guys are talking about, since I live in Europe but I would prefer to live in a society where normal citizens don't have guns. Why does everybody in the US need a gun for? Is there a war going on in the US that I am not aware of lol??? Surely crime can't be that bad.....

I honestly don't get the obsession with guns in the US, no other western developed nation is so obsest with guns. Guns are dangerous and they only give psychos a way of killing people. Every year there are many school shootings in the US, I wonder why... A kid gets a bad grade, goes home and takes dad's gun and goes on a shooting spree. And you people think everyone owning a gun means safer society???

I would feel less safe knowing everyone around me has a lethal weapon in their pocket. Glad I live in society where almost nobody has a gun.

RAMRODtheMASTER

Dude the bad grades was something I made up. The point I was trying to make, since most people have guns in the US, people who have mental problems can get a hold of a gun and can easily start a shooting spree. Here in europe even a person who is mentally disturbed, the worse case scenario that can happen is that he might stab someone with a knife. In the US a person can get a gun and can start popping people like sitting ducks, especially in a crowded area. Not to mention some people might also have assault rifles which is even worse. Here in europe there's hardly any school shooting and the reason why that is, is because it's hard to get a gun. I honestly can't remember when was the last time there was a school shooting in the UK.

An argument that might get out of control between two people in europe may lead to a fist fight. The same argument that gets out of control in the US might lead to a shoot out. People who get very angry and in the heat of the moment can't control them self can do a lot more damage in the US than in Europe IMO.

If every citizen carried a gun with them crime would probably be almost zero.mfp16

I can't believe that someone would think this. Go to a gang controlled city for a day, carry around a gun and see if you feel safe.

[QUOTE="Mitjastiskovski"]

[QUOTE="leviathan91"]

The reason why guns are so important is because our government actually trusts us to own guns. The original idea of owning a firearm was to keep the government in check but it can also reduce crime, though there is no denial there will be accidents. But then again, accidents occur everyday from everyday things.

I'm surprised you feel safe in Europe, despite the lack of guns. Aren't you worried about the ever-growing Islamic extremist groups in your continent, yet alone the lack of government action, growing unemployment, and crime rate?

RAMRODtheMASTER

I feel totally save in Europe. I been to almost every country in europe and nothing bad has ever happened to me. Only thing that has ever happen in my 20 years is that one time someone broke into my house and stole a couple of things and that's it. I also don't know where you get the islamic extremist groups threat from, there's almost none of them here or around europe. Growing unemployment is going up, all around the world even in the US and from my experience and my friends there's hardly any crime rate. There are hardly any gun crimes here in the UK and no school shootings, something that sadly happens every year in the US.

No I don't have any sources but I am pretty sure something like that happens every year since we also hear it on the news. I am also pretty sure school shootings in US is more common than in Europe

[QUOTE="RAMRODtheMASTER"][QUOTE="Mitjastiskovski"]

I feel totally save in Europe. I been to almost every country in europe and nothing bad has ever happened to me. Only thing that has ever happen in my 20 years is that one time someone broke into my house and stole a couple of things and that's it. I also don't know where you get the islamic extremist groups threat from, there's almost none of them here or around europe. Growing unemployment is going up, all around the world even in the US and from my experience and my friends there's hardly any crime rate. There are hardly any gun crimes here in the UK and no school shootings, something that sadly happens every year in the US.

Mitjastiskovski

No I don't have any sources but I am pretty sure something like that happens every year since we also hear it on the news. I am also pretty sure school shootings in US is more common than in Europe

UK doesn't have shootings, but its knife crimes are just as high. Knives stabs are just as lethal as guns.

Gun control really is just an illusion. Criminals will be able to get guns regardless of whether or not its illegal to have them.

[QUOTE="RAMRODtheMASTER"][QUOTE="Mitjastiskovski"]

I don't know exactly what you guys are talking about, since I live in Europe but I would prefer to live in a society where normal citizens don't have guns. Why does everybody in the US need a gun for? Is there a war going on in the US that I am not aware of lol??? Surely crime can't be that bad.....

I honestly don't get the obsession with guns in the US, no other western developed nation is so obsest with guns. Guns are dangerous and they only give psychos a way of killing people. Every year there are many school shootings in the US, I wonder why... A kid gets a bad grade, goes home and takes dad's gun and goes on a shooting spree. And you people think everyone owning a gun means safer society???

I would feel less safe knowing everyone around me has a lethal weapon in their pocket. Glad I live in society where almost nobody has a gun.

Mitjastiskovski

Dude the bad grades was something I made up. The point I was trying to make, since most people have guns in the US, people who have mental problems can get a hold of a gun and can easily start a shooting spree. Here in europe even a person who is mentally disturbed, the worse case scenario that can happen is that he might stab someone with a knife. In the US a person can get a gun and can start popping people like sitting ducks, especially in a crowded area. Not to mention some people might also have assault rifles which is even worse. Here in europe there's hardly any school shooting and the reason why that is, is because it's hard to get a gun. I honestly can't remember when was the last time there was a school shooting in the UK.

An argument that might get out of control between two people in europe may lead to a fist fight. The same argument that gets out of control in the US might lead to a shoot out. People who get very angry and in the heat of the moment can't control them self can do a lot more damage in the US than in Europe IMO.

[QUOTE="Mitjastiskovski"]

I don't know exactly what you guys are talking about, since I live in Europe but I would prefer to live in a society where normal citizens don't have guns. Why does everybody in the US need a gun for? Is there a war going on in the US that I am not aware of lol??? Surely crime can't be that bad.....

I honestly don't get the obsession with guns in the US, no other western developed nation is so obsest with guns. Guns are dangerous and they only give psychos a way of killing people. Every year there are many school shootings in the US, I wonder why... A kid gets a bad grade, goes home and takes dad's gun and goes on a shooting spree. And you people think everyone owning a gun means safer society???

I would feel less safe knowing everyone around me has a lethal weapon in their pocket. Glad I live in society where almost nobody has a gun.

magicalclick

Your perception doesn't mean a thing. But since you are asking why, read begining ofAmerican history in details about why it is estabilished as 2nd most important rights of a citizen (1st is freedom of speech of course). You can disagree or ignore their reasoning of couse, but, the fact remains that it is 2nd most imporant right of being a US citizen. And obviously people want gun control should move to your country and people want more freedom should move to US. Simple as that.

[QUOTE="Mitjastiskovski"]

I don't know exactly what you guys are talking about, since I live in Europe but I would prefer to live in a society where normal citizens don't have guns. Why does everybody in the US need a gun for? Is there a war going on in the US that I am not aware of lol??? Surely crime can't be that bad.....

I honestly don't get the obsession with guns in the US, no other western developed nation is so obsest with guns. Guns are dangerous and they only give psychos a way of killing people. Every year there are many school shootings in the US, I wonder why... A kid gets a bad grade, goes home and takes dad's gun and goes on a shooting spree. And you people think everyone owning a gun means safer society???

I would feel less safe knowing everyone around me has a lethal weapon in their pocket. Glad I live in society where almost nobody has a gun.

magicalclick

Your perception doesn't mean a thing. But since you are asking why, read begining ofAmerican history in details about why it is estabilished as 2nd most important rights of a citizen (1st is freedom of speech of course). You can disagree or ignore their reasoning of couse, but, the fact remains that it is 2nd most imporant right of being a US citizen. And obviously people want gun control should move to your country and people want more freedom should move to US. Simple as that.

Wow so now you are saying there's more freedom in the US than in Europe? You guys haven't even got free healthcare, the number 1 basic human right any person should have.....

It's also somewhat sad that going by important things, guns is a higher priority than healthcare....

Anyway I am out of here, this is gonna start a 200+ page flame war now.

[QUOTE="magicalclick"]

[QUOTE="Mitjastiskovski"]

I don't know exactly what you guys are talking about, since I live in Europe but I would prefer to live in a society where normal citizens don't have guns. Why does everybody in the US need a gun for? Is there a war going on in the US that I am not aware of lol??? Surely crime can't be that bad.....

I honestly don't get the obsession with guns in the US, no other western developed nation is so obsest with guns. Guns are dangerous and they only give psychos a way of killing people. Every year there are many school shootings in the US, I wonder why... A kid gets a bad grade, goes home and takes dad's gun and goes on a shooting spree. And you people think everyone owning a gun means safer society???

I would feel less safe knowing everyone around me has a lethal weapon in their pocket. Glad I live in society where almost nobody has a gun.

Mitjastiskovski

Your perception doesn't mean a thing. But since you are asking why, read begining ofAmerican history in details about why it is estabilished as 2nd most important rights of a citizen (1st is freedom of speech of course). You can disagree or ignore their reasoning of couse, but, the fact remains that it is 2nd most imporant right of being a US citizen. And obviously people want gun control should move to your country and people want more freedom should move to US. Simple as that.

Wow so now you are saying there's more freedom in the US than in Europe? You guys haven't even got free healthcare, the number 1 basic human right any person should have.....

It's also somewhat sad that going by important things, guns is a higher priority than healthcare....

Anyway I am out of here, this is gonna start a 200+ page flame war now.

We have the right to bear arms for one real reason: to protect us from our own government.

While it's highly ulikely that the US govnerment will turn tyranical anytime soon, the threat of a coup de'tat, revolution, or Palpatine-esque power grab is always possible. If something like this ever happens, it would be nice if the people could defend themselves from said tyranny. If only the government had guns, controlling the people would be insanely easy. However, since there are more guns than people in America, the government will always be afraid of the people--and that's how it should be. A government that no longer fears its people will become tyrannical(sooner or later).

Before there are any "conspiracy theory" rebuttles, just go read a history book. Conspiracies have been a part of politics since the dawn of civilization, and they will continue to be.

I'll be forty and at some business meeting. I walk in and we all have to prove to one another that our glocks are holstered. Later on in the day I'll be having my boxed lunch at the park when two guns go off somewhere behind me. Turns out some guy had an accident. I'll see mothers walking around with their baby strollers...and a six shooter dangling from her hip.

Is it really such a safe idea?

We have the right to bear arms for one real reason: to protect us from our own government.

While it's highly ulikely that the US govnerment will turn tyranical anytime soon, the threat of a coup de'tat, revolution, or Palpatine-esque power grab is always possible. If something like this ever happens, it would be nice if the people could defend themselves from said tyranny. If only the government had guns, controlling the people would be insanely easy. However, since there are more guns than people in America, the government will always be afraid of the people--and that's how it should be. A government that no longer fears its people will become tyrannical(sooner or later).

Before there are any "conspiracy theory" rebuttles, just go read a history book. Conspiracies have been a part of politics since the dawn of civilization, and they will continue to be.

XBebop

I'm sure you and your hand guns will make the american miliary quiver in their boots.

[QUOTE="XBebop"]

We have the right to bear arms for one real reason: to protect us from our own government.

While it's highly ulikely that the US govnerment will turn tyranical anytime soon, the threat of a coup de'tat, revolution, or Palpatine-esque power grab is always possible. If something like this ever happens, it would be nice if the people could defend themselves from said tyranny. If only the government had guns, controlling the people would be insanely easy. However, since there are more guns than people in America, the government will always be afraid of the people--and that's how it should be. A government that no longer fears its people will become tyrannical(sooner or later).

Before there are any "conspiracy theory" rebuttles, just go read a history book. Conspiracies have been a part of politics since the dawn of civilization, and they will continue to be.

htekemerald

I'm sure you and your hand guns will make the american miliary quiver in their boots.

[QUOTE="Espada12"]

[QUOTE="Bourbons3"]"Freedom" is all well and good, but you have to be realistic. I don't care how free a country is, if people walk around with revolvers on their hips, I'm not safe.arbitor365

If someone was going to commit crime with a firearm, they would get one gun control or not...

and all us lawabiding citizens would be

A) totally helpless to an attack

B) seen by criminals as being easy targets

C) unsafe in our own homes

d) all of the above

anyway liberals I have a question for you. what if a 250 pound ex convict broke into my house with a knife. what do you expect me to do in that situation if I have no gun

A) call the police so they can get there in 15 minutes (if im lucky)

B) get in a hand to hand, knife fight with him

C) set up home alone traps

D) get stabbed in the face and have my wife and daughter raped

[QUOTE="htekemerald"]

[QUOTE="XBebop"]

We have the right to bear arms for one real reason: to protect us from our own government.

While it's highly ulikely that the US govnerment will turn tyranical anytime soon, the threat of a coup de'tat, revolution, or Palpatine-esque power grab is always possible. If something like this ever happens, it would be nice if the people could defend themselves from said tyranny. If only the government had guns, controlling the people would be insanely easy. However, since there are more guns than people in America, the government will always be afraid of the people--and that's how it should be. A government that no longer fears its people will become tyrannical(sooner or later).

Before there are any "conspiracy theory" rebuttles, just go read a history book. Conspiracies have been a part of politics since the dawn of civilization, and they will continue to be.

RAMRODtheMASTER

I'm sure you and your hand guns will make the american miliary quiver in their boots.

If the government is tyrannical and has the military in its pocket it will just roll over you with a mechanised army. There would be none of this "mind civilian casualties" business like in the americans war in the middle east.

There are intelligent ways to stop the government from becoming tyrannical, owning a gun is not one of them.

[QUOTE="Engrish_Major"][QUOTE="mfp16"]If every citizen carried a gun with them crime would probably be almost zero.Espada12

I rather accident rate goes up and the crime rate goes down.

[QUOTE="danwallacefan"]

[QUOTE="Ninja-Bear"] Just no. There has never been a peaceful, organised government which has one day passed gun-control legislation and then gone on to become an evil totalitarian regime thereafter. A dictator may very well stop people getting guns, but they're dictators in the first place, not afterwards. Ninja-Bear

And I never said that, I said that Dictators pass gun control for a reason, TO PREVENT THEIR PEOPLE FROM RISING UP!

[QUOTE="magnax1"]

[QUOTE="htekemerald"] Such as?

htekemerald

I'll find the statistics in a bit, but one example is the gun restrictions in 1996 in Great Britain. Huge rise in crimes since the bill was passed. Mainly gun crimes.

EDIT: Found an article. It says from 97-01 the rate of violent crime doubled.

http://reason.com/archives/2002/11/01/gun-controls-twisted-outcome

There basically is no logical arguement FOR gun control.

heres also one for Australia. And this is only for the 1st year.

http://www.snopes.com/crime/statistics/ausguns.asp

Right wing gun website vs The British Government Go Go Battle Royal

http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/pdfs2/hosb702.pdf

Waiting for real non-anecdotal data on Australia.

[QUOTE="RAMRODtheMASTER"][QUOTE="htekemerald"]

I'm sure you and your hand guns will make the american miliary quiver in their boots.

htekemerald

If the government is tyrannical and has the military in its pocket it will just roll over you with a mechanised army. There would be none of this "mind civilian casualties" business like in the americans war in the middle east.

There are intelligent ways to stop the government from becoming tyrannical, owning a gun is not one of them.

[QUOTE="Bourbons3"] I understand the need for a gun in the home. But walking around with one while shopping at the supermarket is not ok.magicalclick

[QUOTE="magicalclick"][QUOTE="Bourbons3"] I understand the need for a gun in the home. But walking around with one while shopping at the supermarket is not ok.Bourbons3

I'm surprised you feel safe in Europe, despite the lack of guns. Aren't you worried about the ever-growing Islamic extremist groups in your continent, yet alone the lack of government action, growing unemployment, and crime rate?leviathan91

We have the right to bear arms for one real reason: to protect us from our own government.

While it's highly ulikely that the US govnerment will turn tyranical anytime soon, the threat of a coup de'tat, revolution, or Palpatine-esque power grab is always possible. If something like this ever happens, it would be nice if the people could defend themselves from said tyranny. If only the government had guns, controlling the people would be insanely easy. However, since there are more guns than people in America, the government will always be afraid of the people--and that's how it should be. A government that no longer fears its people will become tyrannical(sooner or later).

Before there are any "conspiracy theory" rebuttles, just go read a history book. Conspiracies have been a part of politics since the dawn of civilization, and they will continue to be.

XBebop

I support the general concept of regulating firearms. No rights are absolute, nor should they be absolute.-Sun_Tzu-

[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"]I support the general concept of regulating firearms. No rights are absolute, nor should they be absolute.danwallacefan

[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"]I support the general concept of regulating firearms. No rights are absolute, nor should they be absolute.danwallacefan

Gun control is bad. If I want a gun I'll own one, not that I want a personal firearm, my job pretty much has me around them all the time, and they're more of a loud annoyance than they are fun. They can be a blast but at the same time a pain in the ass. When I'm finished with my military service, I'll most likely not handle them at all.

[QUOTE="htekemerald"]

[QUOTE="RAMRODtheMASTER"] Did he say he only owned handguns? Perhaps he is like me and has an assault rifle like my SKS or a marksman's rifle like my Mosin Nagant. Those aren't simple handguns, they will **** a person up with a single round at range. Besides a soldier is trained to take every threat seriously, even if they were only handguns pointed at you, you definitely wouldn't be standing there cracking jokes about handguns making you quiver in your boots. Many effective explosives can also be manufactured at home from common things. The proper people can make one hell of an uprising, only a ludicrously ignorant government does not fear it's people.danwallacefan

If the government is tyrannical and has the military in its pocket it will just roll over you with a mechanised army. There would be none of this "mind civilian casualties" business like in the americans war in the middle east.

There are intelligent ways to stop the government from becoming tyrannical, owning a gun is not one of them.

/sarcasm

I don't trust most people with a stapler, let alone a firearm.Engrish_Major