Consequence of Trump's Muslim Ban?

I would only fear a Christian if they really followed their book, and took it's contents seriously. Would you not? The book calls for Christianity to be spread forcibly upon the Earth. If somebody was to come to America, or England, or Germany, and attempt to get Christian law put on parallel with civic law, would you not find that person a threat? For the 900th time, beliefs matter, because beliefs are the drivers of actions.

Changed to point out hypocrisy. Any person who promotes religious zealotry is an asshole. Any person who justified their hate against an entire religious group because their book has violent verses is an asshole.

Muslims aren't shoving Sharia law in the U.S. Christians, on the other hand, are.

Where did I, at any point, state that Christianity is not a threat? Addressing the fact that Christianity has huge problems is not a good mark for Islam. I dont get this non reasoning. Muslim groups throughout Germany and England are steadfastly pushing for parallel courts in those countries, and even a few jurisdictions in London have allowed it.

Stating "Well, anyone who does something bad for religion sucks." Does zero to address the differences between faiths, and why this matters. Here's a difference. Here, in a majority christian nation, bigoted Republican lawmakers want to outlaw gay marriage and do away with any sort of tax exemptions for gay couples, whilst stating publicly that they like gay people, and have no problem with them. In Saudi Arabia, a Muslim majority country, homosexuals or people that cross dress are routinely flogged, beaten, gang raped, or murdered by the state, which views them officially as being counter to Islam. Their book agrees with them, these gays have no rights, and their executions attract gigantic crowds who cheer the murder.

See how the differences matter here in the real world, and how these beliefs have distinct outcomes?

Clearly you don't get it. Again, people justify their beliefs, people aren't a hive mind. I don't care what Saudi Arabia does because they are a horrifying and oppressive regime for all people.

I've made my point and obviously you don't understand. Islam is no different and its believers aren't the same. With full confidence, I can say that most are good people who want to live their lives accordingly without assholes like you telling them they're violent jihadists who will, at a whim, cut off a cartoonist's head.

I dont get how you can admit that belief systems are distinct, yet the actions that derive from those beliefs have nothing to do with the beliefs. themselves. When a christian says gays are an abomination, where do you think that christian got the belief that gays are abominations? If Islam is no different, please catalog the surely giant list of Jain terrorists. Because the differences in belief systems dont matter, correct?

Focuses on the present but ignores the past... Also narrow-minded to justify your insane beliefs.

A majority of Christians and a majority of Muslims are generally good people who want to live their lives peacefully and who have their own belief systems.

When you look at the history of the Middle East and how oppressed it has been from western powers, you can see where the extremism stems from. Islam has its faults but Muslims, as a whole, aren't evil as you claim.

Did I say, at any point, that all Muslims are a hive mind, all think alike, and are evil? And I'm the insane one, while you are reading things never said?

And oh yes, I was waiting for Chomsky to reappear. If only the US was not so evil, Islam would not blow up cafes and murder cartoonists. Tell me, why are Muslims slaughtering Buddhists and Hindus in Kashmir? Is that the US fault? Is it the US fault that Islam has been behind the rest of the world for hundreds of years? Were the barbary raids, obviously having nothing to do with Islamic doctrine, the fault of US foreign policy? Is the US at fault for the Sunni/Shia rift? Are the appalling human rights records of Majority Muslim states, if you can even call them that, the fault of the US? Is Saudi Arabia, our biggest ally in the region, and it's human rights record the US fault? The world is full of oppressed people, many by the US, who do not commit acts like this, and who couldn't based upon their religions. Besides, the suicide bombing community, and the radical groups within Islam are not a movement of the poor and oppressed. All Baggdadi was never oprressed, Osama bin Laden was never oppressed. Omar Mahtin was never oppressed by the US. On and on it goes, and you play this circular logic game.

An ideology, if given the chance, like it has so many times before, would murder you, I, and anyone who talked like us, and your answer is to whip yourself on the back.

You don't know the history of US involvement in the Middle East, don't you? You're not familiar with US support for the Saudi regime? Operation Ajax? Afghan and Iraqi invasion? Shooting down an Iranian airliner? But evidently you think Muslims are the only ones committing atrocities against Hindus and Buddhist even though THEY'RE DOING THE SAME THING AS WELL.

Dude, you said that Muslims, if they had the chance, would commit violent acts because of their "ideology." You said that previously in your threads. You said that when we previously argued in a different thread. Quite frankly, you lack comprehension.

You honestly think I would allow extremism to go on? If that's the case, you're delusional.

You don't know the history of US involvement in the Middle East, don't you? You're not familiar with US support for the Saudi regime? Operation Ajax? Afghan and Iraqi invasion? Shooting down an Iranian airliner? But evidently you think Muslims are the only ones committing atrocities against Hindus and Buddhist even though THEY'RE DOING THE SAME THING AS WELL.

Dude, you said that Muslims, if they had the chance, would commit violent acts because of their "ideology." You said that previously in your threads. You said that when we previously argued in a different thread. Quite frankly, you lack comprehension.

You honestly think I would allow extremism to go on? If that's the case, you're delusional.

Does it get old, hugging trees all day long?

So, you addressed the Muslim vs. Buddhist and Hindu one. Please address all the other examples of how Islam has stagnated every society it has gotten real power in. Please address the facts at hand at how suicide bombing and terrorism are not movements of the poor. Please address why Imams across Africa refuse, with credible threats of violence, to let vaccines immunize Muslim children, because this is a plot by the west. Please tell me how US foreign policy lies at the heart of that issue. Tell me how honor killing is the fault of the US. Tell me how the Sunni Shia rift is the US fault.

On your second point. Yes, a great portion of Muslims, if given a real chance, would take power, and do what the Quran proscribes. I have no faith in Muslim moderates doing anything to dissuade the other, more fundamentalist muslims out of taking violent action. You know why? Because whenever a moderate, or a moderate group comes up and tries to reform Islam to better fit within modernity, that moderate or moderate group is murdered and shuttered. I did not invent Muslim violence toward reformers. I am not the one saying every word uttered by an illiterate is the final revelation.

Your aim seems to be that all religions can be twisted as easily as the next to justify anything, and that no one religion is uniquely a problem. I ask you: Would a rise in Jain fundamentalism be a problem to the world? I dont think so, as Jains dont hold beliefs that could murder people. The fundamentals of Jainism are not violent. The problem with Muslim fundamentalism is a problem with the fundamentals of Islam. IF you do not think this is the case, please read the Quran, listen to how it speaks of you or I, and tell me it is not hostile and violent.

There are many factors to why the ME and Northern Africa is a mess. Some of those factors include religious fundamentalism, autocratic regimes (secular and religious), and outside influence from East and West.

Your second point is complete and utter horsecrap. Reread what you just said and tell me it makes any fucking sense then tell me that "I never said all Muslims aren't a hive mind and that they're evil." You're doing it again.

Did the evil refugees hurt you?

It is not a Muslim ban.

Temporary for now....should be over turned. It's unconstitutional. Sadly the Republicans are silent....and his supporters agree with it. Impeach his ass.

Why dont you listen to what the terrorists and suicide bombers say is the reason for their actions? They rattle on and on about Paradise, the pleasures of a martyr, the Quran and infidels. And your answer is to not take their words as to what they believe.

No matter how many times it is stated, you just fail to grasp that a violent ideology leads to a higher propensity of violence in it's adherents, but that does not mean all adherents will be violent. It;s extremely simple. I ask you again, given the fundamentals of Jainism, could you see a Jain using their creed to commit bombings or insurgent wars? If not, why? What makes Jainism different from Islam, for example. What in Jain teaching, and what in Islamic teaching, would lead either of these religions adherents to commit acts of violence, and is one group more likely than the other?

Dude, I'm done. I've stated my point: Muslims aren't a fucking hive mind. You go on saying that they're adherents to a violent ideology even after I pointed out that while there are violent verses, there are also peaceful verses. But mainly that a majority of Muslims are generally peaceful, the same for other religious groups.

You lack an understanding of the problems worldwide. It's not just religions. Other factors such as outside influence and oppressive regimes lead to violence.

But please, go spout your bs to your Muslim friends and see if they agree with you. I understand your concerns but you're assuming that if Muslims were to come over, they will make our country into a Sharia Law zone which is utterly stupid beyond comprehension. We have Muslims in office and in official positions as well as serving in the military and the police. I guess they're adherents to the violent Islam you're talking about, just like how we have Christians adhering the violent Christianity?

Dude, I'm done. I've stated my point: Muslims aren't a fucking hive mind. You go on saying that they're adherents to a violent ideology even after I pointed out that while there are violent verses, there are also peaceful verses. But mainly that a majority of Muslims are generally peaceful, the same for other religious groups.

You lack an understanding of the problems worldwide. It's not just religions. Other factors such as outside influence and oppressive regimes lead to violence.

But please, go spout your bs to your Muslim friends and see if they agree with you. I understand your concerns but you're assuming that if Muslims were to come over, they will make our country into a Sharia Law zone which is utterly stupid beyond comprehension. We have Muslims in office and in official positions as well as serving in the military and the police. I guess they're adherents to the violent Islam you're talking about, just like how we have Christians adhering the violent Christianity?

Go to Dearborn, Michigan. It'll change your mind.

I never said they were, yet you keep arguing against a point never raised.

You neglected to address abrogation, and how Muslim scholars have been using it for centuries as their official method. You neglected to address that with abrogation, their earlier, peaceful verses are overruled by later ones, which are more and more violent. You did not even attempt to address it.

Oh, so you have the grasp of worldwide problems, and the variables within societies. Nice to know that. That's an easy way to sidestep the fact that so many of the oppressive regimes are Islamic, and acting in accordance with Islamic law as laid down within the Quran and Hadith.

To your last paragraph, my points went right over your head, and it is obvious, because you are arguing on a basis in which I said things I did not. The whole fact that the tenets of Islam itself, and how Islam and fascistic, oppressive governing go hand in hand, is completely side stepped by you. These power structures routinely give Imams and Mullas great power, and it's power that is extremely effective in causing violence worldwide.

But hey, what would I know, I actually take what the Mullas and Imams say seriously when they drone on and on about a worldwide caliphate. Surely they would have no say, and the moderates would magically depose them, right? Where were the moderates in the 9th century, huh?

Go to Kansas. You'll realize that conservative economics doesn't work. Also, go to the American south. You'll realize that conservatism is ruining this country.

Granted, Michigan has its problems and always had before Muslims started coming in. But I guess all Muslims are the same, right? No. Once again, you're falling for that bs.

So moderate and liberal Muslims don't exist? Fucking google them because they do exist. Read your comments. You go on saying that Muslims are inherently violent because of their ideology.

You can't even say one sentence without making yourself look stupid.

So all Muslims stone gay people and keep women submissively shielded from public?

Weird because I know a Muslim who's just your average joe, works hard and surprisingly eats pork. And there's this other Muslim from Afghanistan who served the USMC and currently serves an embassy for his home country. Oh but wait, then there's this Muslim girl who doesn't wear a hijab but doesn't eat pork but is a nice person. And this other guy who works with me too. He's religious but he's lazy. Not violent or anything just lazy.

Weird. And they're all from Muslim countries too. Well, you're the expert because obviously you have plenty of interaction with Muslims, right? Before you answer it, it's rhetorical. Your statement on Muslims is incredibly uneducated and idiotic.

Average homicide rates:

United States - 3.9 per 100,000

Muslim countries - 2.4 per 100,000

Changed to point out hypocrisy. Any person who promotes religious zealotry is an asshole. Any person who justified their hate against an entire religious group because their book has violent verses is an asshole.

Muslims aren't shoving Sharia law in the U.S. Christians, on the other hand, are.

If it makes us feel good but doesn't do anything for us, it must be a good thing, right?

But please, continue to believe "alternative facts."

Did not account for the chronic case of despotic Muslim regimes not reporting, or under reporting their numbers. Did not account for these regimes being extremely repressive over their homogenous populations. They routinely under report, or simply do not report the numbers on minorities being killed within their countries. When my brother fought in Iraq and Afghanistan they rolled across desolated village after desolated village. No records were kept on these villages, apart from their names. This is commonplace in the Muslim world, as it is consistently ravaged by inter faith bloodshed.

There are 49 Muslim-majority countries. The problem with your counter-argument is that you are essentially cherry-picking the most violent examples (like Iraq and Afghanistan, which became warzones because of the US invasions), and presenting that as the norm, which is inherently irrational. These are outliers, not the norm. You have to take all 49 Muslim-majority countries into account, not just cherry-pick the ones that support your argument. When you take all Muslim countries and all Christian countries into account, then the overall statistical conclusion is that, on average, Christian countries are more violent than Muslim countries.

Lolz

Remind me how many Christians, Hindus or Buddhists go around strapping bombs to their kids chests and sending them off to kill innocent people and themselves...all in the name of their ass-backwards religion?

Some republicans like Mccain, Kasich, Graham, Gary Herbert and etc have spoken out against this EO.

"idiotic" eh? So Americans should feel unsafe when they leave their house? I do not understand this notion that the US is unsafe

@frank_castle: Oh, yeah...I'm sure they had the courts in mind when that drafted this executive order. Nevermind the fact that Wahabbi clerics in Saudi Arabia, members of the house of Saud sponser terror....and the vast majority of the 9/11 attackers were Saudi...yeah, no, I can see why they're not on the list.

If it makes us feel good but doesn't do anything for us, it must be a good thing, right?

But please, continue to believe "alternative facts."

For the 1000th time it's a list that the Obama administration put together.

Why isn't Trump using his own list? It's Trump's list now, Obama is no longer in office in case you haven't noticed. Are Trump supporters already getting out their "Blame Obama" excuses?

If he's trying to make our borders safe, why is he leaving huge, gaping holes?

For the 1000th time it's a list that the Obama administration put together.

Lol, like I know. I'm not part of his cabinet dude. Telling you what it is, not why it is. It's funny though that someone complaining about it wants there to be restrictions on even more countries. But anyway, my guess is that the countries picked were because they're highly unstable. Sure, countries like Saudi Arabia and Pakistan have just as many Islamic extremists but they are stable governments so reliable information can probably be found for people in those countries. But places like Libya and Somalia are complete shitholes that are a chaotic mess. Gonna be harder to obtain reliable info from those places. Don't know if that's the reason but it's a guess.

lol it's not a Muslim ban. Stop calling it that. It's a ban on some countries most plagued by terrorism and other types of madness. The media just likes to blow everything out of proportion. How come it's a Muslim ban when Saudi Arabia is not on the list, or Pakistan, or Indonesia? seriously, guys...

What your kind will never grasp nor admit is how our hospitality and charity has bitten us in the rear end on many occasions yet we are supposed to throw caution to the wind. Thank god someone has the balls to say enough.

I'm simply pointing out that what you presented as evidence is highly flawed and poorly supports your argument.

In some areas of the US, people do feel unsafe when they leave their house.

Not like Drumpf doesn't have any business interests in Saudi Arabia and Indonesia. Also keeping in mind that Saudi Arabia is ONE of the countries where al-Qaeda came from AND one of the countries the US is blasted for allying in the first place. Just like Israel.

To your kind, refugees are scary despite evidence pointing out to the contrary. Our process in vetting refugees is already strict to begin with. Trump's EO is overkill especially considering that none of the refugees/immigrants from the countries banned attacked our country in the past decades.

Trump's a coward. He never fought for our country, never served for our country, never did anything for this country. We have refugees who have served alongside our troops who are braver than people like Trump.

To your kind, refugees are scary despite evidence pointing out to the contrary. Our process in vetting refugees is already strict to begin with. Trump's EO is overkill especially considering that none of the refugees/immigrants from the countries banned attacked our country in the past decades.

Trump's a coward. He never fought for our country, never served for our country, never did anything for this country. We have refugees who have served alongside our troops who are braver than people like Trump.

Such blind trust is what will end us all. Facts are facts and for a very long time followers of a certain "faith" have been extremely prone to beheadings, shootings and other forms of terrorism and destruction. Ignoring it will no make it go away. Pretending such atrocities do not happen will not make it so. Our generosity has been countered with killings and harm to innocent people. I'm tickled that he is doing something even if the precious flowers cry and stomp their feet while ignoring the reality around us.

Why does the left place the welfare of others ahead of this country and her people? I've always wondered why the United States does not come first to these kinds of people.