Calling Atheism a religion is like calling bald a hair color.

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Jelle87

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#1 Jelle87
Member since 2006 • 1333 Posts

I just love that quote :D

"Calling Atheism a religion is like calling bald a hair color." Don Hirschberg

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ThePostalWorker

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#2 ThePostalWorker
Member since 2006 • 839 Posts
me 2
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jts31689

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#3 jts31689
Member since 2006 • 1206 Posts
A religion is "a social institution that includes a set of common beliefs and practices generally helnd by a group of people often codified as rayer, ritual and religious law."
I love that quote too, and how atheism fits that definition as well.
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turgore

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#4 turgore
Member since 2006 • 7859 Posts
:D lmao I'm not offended by that and I'm atheist !
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LJS9502_basic

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#5 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 178858 Posts
Religion is a set of shared beliefs....so if a group believes the same...it's a religion.;)
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Bourbons3

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#6 Bourbons3
Member since 2003 • 24238 Posts
A religion is "a social institution that includes a set of common beliefs and practices generally helnd by a group of people often codified as rayer, ritual and religious law."
I love that quote too, and how atheism fits that definition as well.jts31689
Yays
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Jelle87

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#7 Jelle87
Member since 2006 • 1333 Posts

:D lmao I'm not offended by that and I'm atheist !turgore

That's kinda like the point of it. Religious people often call atheism a religion.

But it's the lack thereof. That's why the quote is so keeewwwwlllll :P

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jaybobi92

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#8 jaybobi92
Member since 2007 • 40 Posts
It's more like calling it a hair style, i think. But what about agnosticsm?
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Atrus

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#9 Atrus
Member since 2002 • 10422 Posts

Religions have 3 requirements to be met:

1. Creed.

2. Code.

3. Cult.

I don't see how Atheism or Agnosticism adhere to any of those.

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HyperMetaDragon

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#10 HyperMetaDragon
Member since 2006 • 5345 Posts
Of course, that quote is false. Atheism is still a religion, it's just not a Theist religion. I can't believe something so easy to comprehend is so scarce for people to understand...
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Boring_Bland

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#11 Boring_Bland
Member since 2007 • 943 Posts

Religion is a set of shared beliefs....so if a group believes the same...it's a religion.;)LJS9502_basic

Religon is believing in a god. Atheism is not:| "Group"? they don't go to church.

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LJS9502_basic

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#12 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 178858 Posts

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]Religion is a set of shared beliefs....so if a group believes the same...it's a religion.;)Boring_Bland

Religon is believing in a god. Atheism is not:| "Group"? they don't go to church.

Nope. Religion does not need a God. For some sports are a religion.

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CottonTheMoth

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#13 CottonTheMoth
Member since 2005 • 1186 Posts

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]Religion is a set of shared beliefs....so if a group believes the same...it's a religion.;)Boring_Bland

Religon is believing in a god. Atheism is not:| "Group"? they don't go to church.

Wait, all christians have to attend church?

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LJS9502_basic

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#14 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 178858 Posts

Religions have 3 requirements to be met:

1. Creed.

2. Code.

3. Cult.

I don't see how Atheism or Agnosticism adhere to any of those.

Atrus

A religion is a shared set of beliefs. Period. Atheism is a shared set of beliefs. Fits.

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MeanQuestion

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#15 MeanQuestion
Member since 2004 • 4456 Posts
That would be right if they said "agnosticism" instead.
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slorg_king

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#16 slorg_king
Member since 2005 • 11269 Posts
[QUOTE="jts31689"]A religion is "a social institution that includes a set of common beliefs and practices generally helnd by a group of people often codified as rayer, ritual and religious law."
I love that quote too, and how atheism fits that definition as well.Bourbons3
Yays

jts wins! Super happy fun time party nao!
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194197844077667059316682358889

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#17 194197844077667059316682358889
Member since 2003 • 49173 Posts
False analogy which assumes that all religion is defined by a belief in deity
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NecroKvltMuffin

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#18 NecroKvltMuffin
Member since 2007 • 9334 Posts

This thread is now about the band Atheist.

HAJIME!

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moptopskate

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#19 moptopskate
Member since 2004 • 2362 Posts

A religion is "a social institution that includes a set of common beliefs and practices generally helnd by a group of people often codified as rayer, ritual and religious law."
I love that quote too, and how atheism fits that definition as well.jts31689

haha nice.

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dooly420

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#20 dooly420
Member since 2005 • 8783 Posts
[QUOTE="Atrus"]

Religions have 3 requirements to be met:

1. Creed.

2. Code.

3. Cult.

I don't see how Atheism or Agnosticism adhere to any of those.

LJS9502_basic

A religion is a shared set of beliefs. Period. Atheism is a shared set of beliefs. Fits.

the only shared belief between atheists is that there is no god. i don't really think that qualifies enough to be considered a religion.
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Big_player

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#21 Big_player
Member since 2004 • 6187 Posts
well dictionary.com defines religion as

a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.

Atheism does contain beliefs on the cause, nature of the universe, but falls short on the purpose part. its also missing the superhuman part as well as ritual observances( unless you consider science experiments ritual). it also contains no moral code.

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moptopskate

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#22 moptopskate
Member since 2004 • 2362 Posts
[QUOTE="Boring_Bland"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]Religion is a set of shared beliefs....so if a group believes the same...it's a religion.;)CottonTheMoth

Religon is believing in a god. Atheism is not:| "Group"? they don't go to church.

Wait, all christians have to attend church?

To be a good christian you should. Thats what everyone tells me

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LJS9502_basic

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#23 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 178858 Posts

the only shared belief between atheists is that there is no god. i don't really think that qualifies enough to be considered a religion.dooly420

It's a shared belief....it is what it is.

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gameguy6700

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#24 gameguy6700
Member since 2004 • 12197 Posts

A religion is "a social institution that includes a set of common beliefs and practices generally helnd by a group of people often codified as rayer, ritual and religious law."
I love that quote too, and how atheism fits that definition as well.jts31689

Save for the fact that atheism isn't an institution, nor is there a set of common practices or beliefs that could be ****fied as ritual, prayer, or religious law. Hell, the only common belief in atheism is that deities do not exist. Its still possible for a person to be spiritual and be an atheist. Atheism is a doctrine, not a religion.

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1337street

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#25 1337street
Member since 2007 • 25 Posts
I and my friends worship my mum..do we have a religion???
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dooly420

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#26 dooly420
Member since 2005 • 8783 Posts
[QUOTE="dooly420"]

the only shared belief between atheists is that there is no god. i don't really think that qualifies enough to be considered a religion.LJS9502_basic

It's a shared belief....it is what it is.

but you said a "shared set." one common belief isn't multiple common beliefs. by you're own words, atheism is not a religion.
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Atrus

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#27 Atrus
Member since 2002 • 10422 Posts

A religion is a shared set of beliefs. Period. Atheism is a shared set of beliefs. Fits.

LJS9502_basic

Incorrect. The definition I gave is one taught in Religion as a subject, but I know learning things doesn't quite jive with some people.

Atheism is no more a religion than Theism is, they are both statements regarding the existence or lack thereof of a subject known as 'God'. Each statement is further defined by subset definitions such as Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Hinduism etc. for Theism and Atheism encompasses beliefs in Buddhism, various philosophical ideologies, Spiritual Animism, or even the beliefs of Realians which simply interchange 'God' with Aliens.

The basis of holding a Creed, Code, and Cult is why various Eastern philosophies are viewed as religions even though they do not accept or acknowledge the existence of a 'God' or 'Gods'.

It only 'fits' because you are trying to reconcile your preconceptions by subverting reality.

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LJS9502_basic

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#28 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 178858 Posts

[QUOTE="jts31689"]A religion is "a social institution that includes a set of common beliefs and practices generally helnd by a group of people often codified as rayer, ritual and religious law."
I love that quote too, and how atheism fits that definition as well.gameguy6700

Save for the fact that atheism isn't an institution, nor is there a set of common practices or beliefs that could be ****fied as ritual, prayer, or religious law. Hell, the only common belief in atheism is that deities do not exist. Its still possible for a person to be spiritual and be an atheist. Atheism is a doctrine, not a religion.

It's an instititution now. Not when it started but it is now. It's shared beliefs....a shared way of looking at the world. And if you've spent any time in OT you'd see a shared idealogy in the religion threads. No way it's individual any more. Religion doesn't need a diety to be a religiion.;)

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Scienceblows

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#29 Scienceblows
Member since 2007 • 2992 Posts
...so do you want an award or something?
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Big_player

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#30 Big_player
Member since 2004 • 6187 Posts
I and my friends worship my mum..do we have a religion???1337street

no im pretty sure you just have some kind of perversion:|
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Guiltfeeder566

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#31 Guiltfeeder566
Member since 2005 • 10068 Posts
[QUOTE="Atrus"]

Religions have 3 requirements to be met:

1. Creed.

2. Code.

3. Cult.

I don't see how Atheism or Agnosticism adhere to any of those.

LJS9502_basic

A religion is a shared set of beliefs. Period. Atheism is a shared set of beliefs. Fits.

Not really. You don't have a belief in Atheism. You don't decleare "I am an Atheist" and start following an Atheist code or creed or cult.

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1337street

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#32 1337street
Member since 2007 • 25 Posts

[QUOTE="1337street"]I and my friends worship my mum..do we have a religion???Big_player

no im pretty sure you just have some kind of perversion:|

Awwww dang it! :(

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club-sandwich

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#33 club-sandwich
Member since 2007 • 8399 Posts

bald man disagrees :o

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Insane00

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#34 Insane00
Member since 2003 • 1267 Posts
I love that Jedi is a religion in the UK.
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#35 Boring_Bland
Member since 2007 • 943 Posts
[QUOTE="Boring_Bland"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]Religion is a set of shared beliefs....so if a group believes the same...it's a religion.;)LJS9502_basic

Religon is believing in a god. Atheism is not:| "Group"? they don't go to church.

Nope. Religion does not need a God. For some sports are a religion.

lol, nice argument.

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1337street

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#36 1337street
Member since 2007 • 25 Posts
I love that Jedi is a religion in the UK.Insane00
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LJS9502_basic

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#37 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 178858 Posts
[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

A religion is a shared set of beliefs. Period. Atheism is a shared set of beliefs. Fits.

Atrus

Incorrect. The definition I gave is one taught in Religion as a subject, but I know learningthings doesn't quite jive with some people.

Atheism is no more a religion than Theism is, they are both statements regarding the existence or lack thereof of a subject known as 'God'. Each statement is further defined by subset definitions such as Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Hinduism etc. for Theism and Atheism encompasses beliefs in Buddhism, various philosophical ideologies, Spiritual Animism, or even the beliefs of Realians which simply interchange 'God' with Aliens.

The basis of holding a Creed, Code, and Cult is why various Eastern philosophies are viewed as religions even though they do not accept or acknowledge the existence of a 'God' or 'Gods'.

It only 'fits' because you are trying to reconcile your preconceptions by subverting reality.

That depends on the definition. There are many different interpretations of the definition. Not all include a God or a deity.And some fit quite well with both atheism and agnosticism....

Religioustolerance.org/rel_defn.htm includes both as part...and shows various interpretations....which belie the fact that atheism cannot fit into "religion".

Won't let me copy the web address...nonetheless there are definitions there which don't "fit" your interpretation.

One definition in the Miriam Webster dictionary simply states...

A cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith.

Describes the faith atheists place in science knowing the answers well.....

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LJS9502_basic

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#38 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 178858 Posts

Not really. You don't have a belief in Atheism. You don't decleare "I am an Atheist" and start following an Atheist code or creed or cult.

Guiltfeeder566

Are you saying atheists DON'T have a belief in how the universe was created? How the universe functions?

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ShuLordLiuPei

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#39 ShuLordLiuPei
Member since 2005 • 9520 Posts

Religion is a set of shared beliefs....so if a group believes the same...it's a religion.;)LJS9502_basic
Does that I mean I share a religion with all those who believe Queen are great? The video game religion too?:|

Sharing beliefs within a group does not equal being in a religion with them.

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Happyphilter

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#40 Happyphilter
Member since 2004 • 1347 Posts

The only thing athiests have in common is that they believe there is no god. Calling this a "religion" is rediculous, by that standard everyone who thoiught that the color blue was the best color of all, and that greenday was the best band would all be a religion. It takes more than a single common belief to be a religion, there is no establishment, or organization with athiesm, therefor it is not a religion.

And "going to church" is not required for a Christian, as church does not define only a place of worship, but a community of people. The church is everyone within that christian community.

By what you guys are saying about athiesm being a religion, we are all part of hundreds of religions without our knowing. I'm pretty sure theres a lot of people that think milky ways are awesome, but seriously, a religion? get a grip.

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Happyphilter

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#41 Happyphilter
Member since 2004 • 1347 Posts

The only thing athiests have in common is that they believe there is no god. Calling this a "religion" is rediculous, by that standard everyone who thoiught that the color blue was the best color of all, and that greenday was the best band would all be a religion. It takes more than a single common belief to be a religion, there is no establishment, or organization with athiesm, therefor it is not a religion.

And "going to church" is not required for a Christian, as church does not define only a place of worship, but a community of people. The church is everyone within that christian community.

By what you guys are saying about athiesm being a religion, we are all part of hundreds of religions without our knowing. I'm pretty sure theres a lot of people that think milky ways are awesome, but seriously, a religion? get a grip.

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gameguy6700

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#42 gameguy6700
Member since 2004 • 12197 Posts
[QUOTE="gameguy6700"]

[QUOTE="jts31689"]A religion is "a social institution that includes a set of common beliefs and practices generally helnd by a group of people often codified as rayer, ritual and religious law."
I love that quote too, and how atheism fits that definition as well.LJS9502_basic

Save for the fact that atheism isn't an institution, nor is there a set of common practices or beliefs that could be ****fied as ritual, prayer, or religious law. Hell, the only common belief in atheism is that deities do not exist. Its still possible for a person to be spiritual and be an atheist. Atheism is a doctrine, not a religion.

It's an instititution now. Not when it started but it is now. It's shared beliefs....a shared way of looking at the world. And if you've spent any time in OT you'd see a shared idealogy in the religion threads. No way it's individual any more. Religion doesn't need a diety to be a religiion.;)

Its not an institution because the only common belief is that there is no god(s). That's it. There are atheists who still believe in an afterlife, there are atheists who believe in spirits, and there are hardcore atheists who say that all paranormal beliefs are false. That's hardly uniformity. Furthermore atheism is completely descentralized. There's no central authority, writings, laws, rules, or anything to govern atheists. Its a doctrine, not a religion. To make this clear:

Doctrine (n):

  1. A principle or body of principles presented for acceptance or belief, as by a religious, political, scientific, or philosophic group; dogma.
  2. A rule or principle of law, especially when established by precedent.
  3. A statement of official government policy, especially in foreign affairs and military strategy.
  4. Archaic. Something taught; a teaching.

Atheism (n):

  1. Disbelief in or denial of the existence of God or gods.
  2. The doctrine that there is no God or gods.

Religion (n):

    1. Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe.
    2. A personal or institutionalized system grounded in such belief and worship.
  1. The life or condition of a person in a religious order.
  2. A set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a spiritual leader.
  3. A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion.

Institution (n):

  1. The act of instituting.
    1. A custom, practice, relationship, or behavioral pattern of importance in the life of a community or society
    2. Informal. One long associated with a specified place, position, or function.
    1. An established organization or foundation, especially one dedicated to education, public service, or culture.
    2. The building or buildings housing such an organization.
    3. A place for the care of persons who are destitute, disabled, or mentally ill.

So let's put that all together (ignoring the fact that the word "doctrine" is in the definition of atheism since that makes things too easy):

Does atheism fit the definition of institution? No. Atheism is not a custom, it is not a practice, it certainly isn't a relationship, it isn't a behavioral pattern, and assuming it was it still wouldn't meet the requirement of importance in the life of a community or society (since there is no community of atheists). Atheism also isn't an organization or foundation.

Atheism does, however, fit the defintion of a doctrine.

Furthermore, if we used your definition of institution/religion then McDonald's, the US government, and Star Wars are religions.

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GeForce2187

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#43 GeForce2187
Member since 2006 • 2963 Posts
i'm glad i'm "bald"
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LJS9502_basic

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#44 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 178858 Posts

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]Religion is a set of shared beliefs....so if a group believes the same...it's a religion.;)ShuLordLiuPei

Does that I mean I share a religion with all those who believe Queen are great? The video game religion too?:|

Sharing beliefs within a group does not equal being in a religion with them.

Worshipping Queen can, in fact, be a religion.

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MindFreeze

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#45 MindFreeze
Member since 2007 • 2814 Posts

Wtf you don't teach atheism, you don't go to atheist church, there's no holy atheist book, atheist dont have faith in something...

It's just like theism isn't a religion, but the beliefs that do have these things are. Again, wtf. It just means that person believes there is no god.

Are you telling me that a group of people who believe that cookies are delicious also have just made a religion?

And "when atheism started", umm... Do I even need to explain that?:roll:

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Happyphilter

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#46 Happyphilter
Member since 2004 • 1347 Posts
[QUOTE="ShuLordLiuPei"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]Religion is a set of shared beliefs....so if a group believes the same...it's a religion.;)LJS9502_basic

Does that I mean I share a religion with all those who believe Queen are great? The video game religion too?:|

Sharing beliefs within a group does not equal being in a religion with them.

Worshipping Queen can, in fact, be a religion.

he said believeing the queen is great, not worshiping. theres a difference.

If you have to change peoples words to make yourself seem right, chances are you are wrong.

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dooly420

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#47 dooly420
Member since 2005 • 8783 Posts
Furthermore, if we used your definition of institution/religion then McDonald's, the US government, and Star Wars are religions.gameguy6700
there are quite a number of people who put "jedi" as their religion.
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#48 ShuLordLiuPei
Member since 2005 • 9520 Posts
[QUOTE="Guiltfeeder566"]

Not really. You don't have a belief in Atheism. You don't decleare "I am an Atheist" and start following an Atheist code or creed or cult.

LJS9502_basic

Are you saying atheists DON'T have a belief in how the universe was created? How the universe functions?

Most of everyone in the world has an opinion on how the universe came about.

But atheists as a whole group do not. Even if 99% of atheists believed a certain way, that does not mean they are part of a set belief system.

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LJS9502_basic

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#50 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 178858 Posts

gameguy6700

Again...read the various definitions of religion. There isn't just one. FYI...not all persons of "any" religion believe the exact same things.

ANY shared belief can be a religion yes.