Calling Atheism a religion is like calling bald a hair color.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

Blah blah blah.....more of the same. Again no proof but opinion and insults. As for the alien thing....I wasn't saying an atheist couldn't believe...it's hypocritical to do so nonetheless.

Atrus

What proof do you need for what I just said? You're the lunatic who thinks that Theism isn't a religion but Atheism is. You continually ignore the fact that Atheism casts just a wide range of belief systems or lack thereof as Theism does, but you are suffering from a myopic mindset that cannot extend beyond your simple-mindedness.

There is not one belief beyond the lack of belief in a God that is common to all Atheists. Calling you a coward isn't an insult, its a fact until you stop avoiding the talking points I raised.

Wide range? Atheism is narrow. The lack of belief in God.:(

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

Blah blah blah.....more of the same. Again no proof but opinion and insults. As for the alien thing....I wasn't saying an atheist couldn't believe...it's hypocritical to do so nonetheless.

Atrus

What proof do you need for what I just said? You're the lunatic who thinks that Theism isn't a religion but Atheism is. You continually ignore the fact that Atheism casts just a wide range of belief systems or lack thereof as Theism does, but you are suffering from a myopic mindset that cannot extend beyond your simple-mindedness.

There is not one belief beyond the lack of belief in a God that is common to all Atheists. Calling you a coward isn't an insult, its a fact until you stop avoiding the talking points I raised.

Insults are generally an indication of losing an arguement...

How is Atheism a religion? I though Atheists were against religion?

BTW Religion is the biggest hoax ever, It got billions of people in history

Many had different ideas of what god was - They can't all be right, so most likely none of them are right

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

Blah blah blah.....more of the same. Again no proof but opinion and insults. As for the alien thing....I wasn't saying an atheist couldn't believe...it's hypocritical to do so nonetheless.

Atrus

What proof do you need for what I just said? You're the lunatic who thinks that Theism isn't a religion but Atheism is. You continually ignore the fact that Atheism casts just a wide range of belief systems or lack thereof as Theism does, but you are suffering from a myopic mindset that cannot extend beyond your simple-mindedness.

There is not one belief beyond the lack of belief in a God that is common to all Atheists. Calling you a coward isn't an insult, its a fact until you stop avoiding the talking points I raised.

More insults....more opinion. *sigh* I believe I stated that using the criteria to say atheism couldn't be a religion would show theism to not be a religion either. Again....as I've stated dozens of times....it DEPENDS ON THE DEFINITION. However, you clearly use only one definition. There are other definitions of religion...as I stated dozens of times....where both theism and atheism fit.

You have raised no talking points.....and I've addressed all your points .:roll:

PS...you have not addressed any of mine.

[QUOTE="Ravirr"]

Insults are generally an indication of losing an arguement...

Atrus

Only if they're the sole basis of the argument. I've clearly outlined several points which he has cowardly ducked. You are more than welcome to defend him if you address those points though.

They were the sole basis of your post....:|

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

More insults....more opinion. *sigh* I believe I stated that using the criteria to say atheism couldn't be a religion would show theism to not be a religion either. Again....as I've stated dozens of times....it DEPENDS ON THE DEFINITION. However, you clearly use only one definition. There are other definitions of religion...as I stated dozens of times....where both theism and atheism fit.

You have raised no talking points.....and I've addressed all your points .:roll:

PS...you have not addressed any of mine.

Atrus

Theism isn't a religion so what's the problem. Each are statements about the existence of God not religions.

The Bolded is a contradiction. If I didn't raise any talking points you would not be able to address them.

I demanded that you address them on a point by point basis, you have not done so. Provide proof that you have done so in a point by point manner. If you do not then you are simply lying.

What did I say was an opinion in the previous post? All you are doing is special pleading and cowardly ducking the points raised against you. The other 'definitions' you are using have no application in defining Atheism as a religion.

Atheism is not a system of beliefs and you have failed to provide what that system of beliefs are. Those that you have raised have already been refuted by showing your incompetence in making logical fallacies, ones you've dropped like a rock when they've been refuted.

I've addressed everything you've posted.....these talking points either weren't raised or answered already. No contradiction. You demand......:lol:

I showed you a system of beliefs vis a vis atheism to coincide with that so called system of beliefs your side has presented to prove theism...christianity are religion. Several times in fact.

You want them....reread the thread. In the words of the legal system.....asked and answered...move on.

Atheism is not a system of beliefs and you have failed to provide what that system of beliefs are. Those that you have raised have already been refuted by showing your incompetence in making logical fallacies, ones you've dropped like a rock when they've been refuted.

Atrus

His point is that atheism can be packaged with a system of beliefs, just like theism. He's not saying all atheists are religious, he's saying some can be considered religous. He has said that a few times in this thread, I don't understand why you're ignoring that.

[QUOTE="DeeJayInphinity"]

His point is that atheism can be packaged with a system of beliefs, just like theism. He's not saying all atheists are religious, he's saying some can be considered religous. He has said that a few times in this thread, I don't understand why you're ignoring that.

Atrus

What system of beliefs is Atheism packaged with? His point here is that Atheism is a religion and tries to contradict the OP. It is not in any way nor does it come with a "packaged system of beliefs".

I would call "The God Delusion" a system of beliefs.. there's just no official name for it. Practically all of his arguments have been around for a while, they've all been passed down to his readers, they all believe in that doctrine which tries to disprove a god.

It's exactly the same thing as the bible.. it promotes atheism while arguing against theism. The bible promotes theism while arguing against atheism. Dawkin's set of beliefs just don't have a name, although people still recite them just like scripture.

"Ahem you know if nothing can come out of nothing then how did god come out of nothing?" See, that's a belief most atheists would teach. That is why the court decided that atheism could be considered a religion. Some people treat it that way.

Notice how I'm not saying all atheism is religious, I'm saying it can be for some people. That's exactly what LJS has been saying along but you're just not listening.

Atheism is a belief, not an organized religion.chrisrooR

yeah! go you! high five bro! atheists rule!

This is my last post in this thread for you. You have been a coward for avoiding the raised arguments and now a liar for failing to provide evidence where you've given a point by point refutation of the talking points. This makes you a zealot who isn't interested in discussion more than his own religious sentiments. Until you do provide a point by point refutation or evidence that you did you will remain a lying, coward.

This is another argument you've lost until you salvage your credibility by doing the aforementioned. Sadly I doubt you have the self-respect to do so, since ducking and running away from the points has now become a defacto standard for you. I certainly don't consider you to be worthwhile any longer, just another under-educated malcontent.

Atrus

Yay! I haven't avoided anything. I responded to your posts. You have NOT responded to mine. I haven't used any personal beliefs in this thread....that makes your wrong YET AGAIN. This thread is not about what I believe or don't believe. However, since you have provided no facts.....just opinion....it doesn't surprise me you try to say I've used my beliefs here.

Lying coward? I think if I were I would avoid facts....use insults.....ad hominem attacks....and twist some words. The fact remains that I've responded to your comments...though out of the majority of your posts they have simply been attacks and opinions.

You have prresented no proof.....you have made no points. You have clearly failed to present an argument.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]Religion is a set of shared beliefs....so if a group believes the same...it's a religion.;)Boring_Bland

Religon is believing in a god. Atheism is not:| "Group"? they don't go to church.

[QUOTE="MindFreeze"][QUOTE="kalossimitar"]

I stopped reading after that. Just one word: "wow", no wonder it came out of a religious guy's mouth, after all, questioning isnt your strength, to you theists

LJS9502_basic

Haha yes wow.

LJS, you seriously think people instantly believed in a God right after we gained enough intelligence (through evolution, OH **** you don't believe in that ofcourse! Man was always the same!)

Words and meanings change and adapt with life. Atheism has become to some a religion. Period. You can't state otherwise as that would be false.

Am I religious? I haven't expressed a personal belief in this thread...other than that atheism has become a religion.

Actually people believed in God prior to believing in evolution so I don't know where you are going with that. Nonetheless, man has believed in various forms that "something" exists out there for as long as man has existed. If you have proof to the contrary....present it now.

What the **** has evolution to do with not believing in god. I'm saying when people EVOLVED to be more intelligent and were able to think about things such as why are we here etc. then after a while people started believing in gods and creating religions. Evolution is a pretty 'new' concept, I think Lamarck made the first theory...

[QUOTE="Atrus"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

Atheism as a world view is not that old. I'm referring to more modern times. The term atheism in English derived in the late 1500's...to which I was referring. That is hundreds of years...not thousands.

I answered your OPINION....where is your proof.

1. Fact....all atheists believe that a deity of any kind does NOT exist...or they by definition CANNOT be called atheists.

2. Fact...all atheists, therefore, cannot believe a diety created the world and thus, the world was created through natural law/natural events.

3. Fact....all atheists believe a deity did NOT create man.

Seems to be a set of similiar beliefs...anyone of which an atheist doesn't believe then he is not BY DEFINITION athests.

And again...the courts ruled atheism a religion...I think that ends this discussion. What used to be an individual belief has in fact become accepted by a large enough percentage of the population to qualify as a shared belief....belief system...vis a vis....a god/gods/deity is not responsible for the world. A god/gods/deity does not meet you in the afterlife. Death is nothing but the absence of life.

Basically, if you want to look at what you perceive as a belief system for religion...and pull it apart point by point...one can clearly state the opposite is a belief system for atheists.

LJS9502_basic

You weren't referring to modern times you referred to it's early days which means you are wrong. You didn't answer my opinion, you answered my educated knowledge for which you can pull any number of references to Atheism in Hinduism.

http://horizonspeaks.wordpress.com/2007/05/18/atheism-in-ancient-india/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism_in_Hinduism

You only call it my opinion because you are not only too lazy to look it up for yourself, and have a poor understanding of anything you talk about.

1. Correct. Atheists do not believe in a God.

2. False. Atheists do not believe a God created the world/universe but that does not mean they cannot attribute the creation of reality to other supernatural events or beings. Here you commit a logic error in that Gods are presumed to be the only supernatural force to create the universe. It does not take into account beliefs such as animists who believe in The Dreaming and the spirit world to Hindu beliefs of the creation of reality through the interaction of nature and spirit.

Additionally, you foolishly assume that all beliefs rely on the creation of the universe. Atheist Hindu schools like Carvaka cite that the Universe has always been.

3. True. Atheists do not believe a God created man, but again you commit a logic era by ignoring other possibilities that man has always been, aliens created us, magic, spontaneous generation, or that it arose from or interactions with the spirit realm.

You continually make stupid associations that if God is not attributed to something, it must mean a specific other condition such as a naturalistic worldview. You are incompetently trying to turn an umbrella class called Atheism into a religion while ignoring the fact that Theism, the other umbrella classification is not. In your small minded worldview, Raelians, Atheistic Hindu's, Atheistic Buddhists, all those I've mentioned before and more are all the same religion.

It's nothing but pathetic special pleading for the world to adhere to your baseless outlook, a cowardly one that avoids countering points raised against it.

I was referring to exactly what I said I was referring to.....:| Atheism in modern times became pronounced in the 1500's....look it up.

Not false vis a vis belief in a God. If you don't...by definition...believe in a God...you don't...by definition believe he created the world. Come now....that doesn't even make sense.:lol:

Aliens? An atheist that must have proof of a god should not believe in aliens....no proof and all.:|

My statement was simple.....it refers to GOD....get it? I'm not discussing anything else since atheism refers to a lack of belief in a god/gods/deity. I'm sticking to the topic....you should do the same. It does not advance your argument to create extranewous discussion having no merit in this topic. If you wish to discuss another topic I suggest you create a thread dedicated to it.

I've countered all the points you've made easily, correctly and without insulting you. Something you are continually unable to do....

Denying the possibility of there being aliens is something totally different than denying existence of all knowing invincible, able of creating life etc. gods.

With the billions and billions of galaxies there is quite a large possiblity of there being more life, if even just bacteria, or something we can't understand or see.(!?)

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

I've addressed everything you've posted.....these talking points either weren't raised or answered already. No contradiction. You demand......:lol:

I showed you a system of beliefs vis a vis atheism to coincide with that so called system of beliefs your side has presented to prove theism...christianity are religion. Several times in fact.

You want them....reread the thread. In the words of the legal system.....asked and answered...move on.

Atrus

This is my last post in this thread for you. You have been a coward for avoiding the raised arguments and now a liar for failing to provide evidence where you've given a point by point refutation of the talking points. This makes you a zealot who isn't interested in discussion more than his own religious sentiments. Until you do provide a point by point refutation or evidence that you did you will remain a lying, coward.

This is another argument you've lost until you salvage your credibility by doing the aforementioned. Sadly I doubt you have the self-respect to do so, since ducking and running away from the points has now become a defacto standard for you. I certainly don't consider you to be worthwhile any longer, just another under-educated malcontent.

Dude, he does this ALL THE TIME. I've argued with him in MANY threads before, and it's always the same thing. He'll spout off whatever hethinks will make his point, and refuse to acknowledge any other questions you pose to him.

I advise just giving up. really. I mean, imagine arguing with a brick wall. You may always be more right than the wall. But as long as the wall refuses to engage in discussion, what's the point?

Really, why waste your time?

Atheism isn't a religion. There's nothing religious about it.

"A shared set of beliefs..."

It isn't shared because it is specific to each individual. It isn't beliefs, but the lack of.

Well.... Read

And

And since you didn't pay attention the last time

Again this person believes so

And this

Lastly this

Whether you personally wish to believe it so...it has become apparent that in some cases atheism has become a religion.

I've posted facts....verses your opinion. /thread.

Atheism isn't a religion. There's nothing religious about it.

"A shared set of beliefs..."

It isn't shared because it is specific to each individual. It isn't beliefs, but the lack of.

GodLovesDead

Just so you know....there are no two people that "believe" established "religion" the exact same. Faith is personal...therefore, using your definition....religion doesn't exist....anywhere....ever.

Dude, he does this ALL THE TIME. I've argued with him in MANY threads before, and it's always the same thing. He'll spout off whatever hethinks will make his point, and refuse to acknowledge any other questions you pose to him.

I advise just giving up. really. I mean, imagine arguing with a brick wall. You may always be more right than the wall. But as long as the wall refuses to engage in discussion, what's the point?

Really, why waste your time?

MrGeezer

Dude...I provided proof....he didn't. Oh yeah, that's correct you don't either. It is the SAME.:lol:

As for your "questions"...there are invariably not about the topic. You seem to like to throw other ideas in that HAVE NOTHING to do with the subject. I do ignore things that are not important to the topic.

What the **** has evolution to do with not believing in god. I'm saying when people EVOLVED to be more intelligent and were able to think about things such as why are we here etc. then after a while people started believing in gods and creating religions. Evolution is a pretty 'new' concept, I think Lamarck made the first theory...

MindFreeze

And I asked you for a date proving your statement. You can't really provide one as there is no way of knowing what the first man actually thought. He may well have believed in something other than mankind. You brought evolution up....I simply said you can't know that and therefore, that idea is pointless.