British man jailed for wearing offensive t-shirt

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deactivated-5fc147aeeb0aa

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#1 deactivated-5fc147aeeb0aa
Member since 2009 • 8315 Posts

Link: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-19911943

What are your thoughts on this? Should he have the right to wear that? Or not?

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Laihendi

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#4 Laihendi
Member since 2009 • 5872 Posts
This is a blatant violation of freedom of speech.
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leviathan91

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#5 leviathan91
Member since 2007 • 7763 Posts

It's offensive but never should have been jailed imo.

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tryagainlater

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#6 tryagainlater
Member since 2005 • 7446 Posts

He's a moron but I don't think he should be jailed for it.

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Pirate700

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#7 Pirate700
Member since 2008 • 46465 Posts

The shirt is beyond stupid but he shouldn't have been jailed. I believe the UK has different laws regarding free speech.

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sammyjenkis898

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#8 sammyjenkis898
Member since 2007 • 28392 Posts

He's a moron but I don't think he should be jailed for it.

tryagainlater
/thread
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SaintLeonidas

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#9 SaintLeonidas
Member since 2006 • 26735 Posts
If it is against their public order offence laws then I fail to see the problem.
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deactivated-5b1e62582e305

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#10 deactivated-5b1e62582e305
Member since 2004 • 30778 Posts

Attention whores gonna attention whore.

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Laihendi

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#11 Laihendi
Member since 2009 • 5872 Posts
If it is against their public order offence laws then I fail to see the problem. SaintLeonidas
If it's against their laws then the problem is their laws.
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hoola

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#12 hoola
Member since 2004 • 6422 Posts

Explain how this is any different from extremist muslim nations that jail people for offending Muhammad or the bible.

"You offended someone" ---> jail

"You offended Islam" ---> jail.

I'm not seeing much of a difference here.

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Zeviander

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#13 Zeviander
Member since 2011 • 9503 Posts
He broke UK law. Dumbass is dumb, and freedom of speech should prevail, but eh.
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ScorpionTroll

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#15 ScorpionTroll
Member since 2012 • 810 Posts

"Rights" seem more like privileges than rights in that country.

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SaintLeonidas

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#16 SaintLeonidas
Member since 2006 • 26735 Posts
[QUOTE="Laihendi"][QUOTE="SaintLeonidas"]If it is against their public order offence laws then I fail to see the problem. meconate
If it's against their laws then the problem is their laws.

I once saw a guy wearing a t-shirt saying 'F*ck Emos' and the police didn't bat an eyelid. Yet somebody wears this and it's a whole different story. Not that I have any particular love for emos, I don't care either way.

Right, yes, a shirt saying "f*ck emos* is definitely comparable to a shirt directed towards police officers just hours after two were killed. :roll: The man is a moron trying to intentionally offend the friends and family of two innocent officers gunned down. Whether you agree with his jailing or not, their law is still the law, this ditsh*t broke it, move on.
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Novotine

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#17 Novotine
Member since 2009 • 1199 Posts
england must be wiped off the face of the earth
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Bucked20

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#18 Bucked20
Member since 2011 • 6651 Posts
Damn thug
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Wanderer5

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#21 Wanderer5
Member since 2006 • 25727 Posts

Not fully agree on him being jailed, but he a moron for wearing that shirt right after the death of those two officers.

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Laihendi

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#22 Laihendi
Member since 2009 • 5872 Posts
[QUOTE="SaintLeonidas"][QUOTE="meconate"][QUOTE="Laihendi"] If it's against their laws then the problem is their laws.

I once saw a guy wearing a t-shirt saying 'F*ck Emos' and the police didn't bat an eyelid. Yet somebody wears this and it's a whole different story. Not that I have any particular love for emos, I don't care either way.

Right, yes, a shirt saying "f*ck emos* is definitely comparable to a shirt directed towards police officers just hours after two were killed. :roll: The man is a moron trying to intentionally offend the friends and family of two innocent officers gunned down. Whether you agree with his jailing or not, their law is still the law, this ditsh*t broke it, move on.

He expressed an opinion by wearing that shirt. Regardless of how stupid that opinion may be, he wasn't hurting anymore. Any law that says he can't express a harmless opinion is oppressive, immoral, and illegitimate.
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SaintLeonidas

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#23 SaintLeonidas
Member since 2006 • 26735 Posts
[QUOTE="Laihendi"][QUOTE="SaintLeonidas"][QUOTE="meconate"] I once saw a guy wearing a t-shirt saying 'F*ck Emos' and the police didn't bat an eyelid. Yet somebody wears this and it's a whole different story. Not that I have any particular love for emos, I don't care either way.

Right, yes, a shirt saying "f*ck emos* is definitely comparable to a shirt directed towards police officers just hours after two were killed. :roll: The man is a moron trying to intentionally offend the friends and family of two innocent officers gunned down. Whether you agree with his jailing or not, their law is still the law, this ditsh*t broke it, move on.

He expressed an opinion by wearing that shirt. Regardless of how stupid that opinion may be, he wasn't hurting anymore. Any law that says he can't express a harmless opinion is oppressive, immoral, and illegitimate.

Wasn't hurting anyone? Yeah, because this definitely can't be considered harassment and offensive to the friends, families and fellow officers of those two officers killed just hours earlier. :roll:
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Laihendi

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#24 Laihendi
Member since 2009 • 5872 Posts
[QUOTE="SaintLeonidas"][QUOTE="Laihendi"][QUOTE="SaintLeonidas"] Right, yes, a shirt saying "f*ck emos* is definitely comparable to a shirt directed towards police officers just hours after two were killed. :roll: The man is a moron trying to intentionally offend the friends and family of two innocent officers gunned down. Whether you agree with his jailing or not, their law is still the law, this ditsh*t broke it, move on.

He expressed an opinion by wearing that shirt. Regardless of how stupid that opinion may be, he wasn't hurting anymore. Any law that says he can't express a harmless opinion is oppressive, immoral, and illegitimate.

Wasn't hurting anyone? Yeah, because this definitely can't be considered harassment and offensive to the friends, families and fellow officers of those two officers killed just hours earlier. :roll:

You're right, wearing a shirt cannot be considered harassment.
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shadowkiller11

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#25 shadowkiller11
Member since 2008 • 7956 Posts

The shirt is beyond stupid but he shouldn't have been jailed. I believe the UK has different laws regarding free speech.

Pirate700
I think British TV is more lenient compared to American TV but I've never heard of any freedom of speech issues in terms of the legal department, I think this is a rare occurrence and yes it's offensive but I don't think he should be jailed no matter how retarded he is.
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SaintLeonidas

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#26 SaintLeonidas
Member since 2006 • 26735 Posts

[QUOTE="SaintLeonidas"][QUOTE="Laihendi"] He expressed an opinion by wearing that shirt. Regardless of how stupid that opinion may be, he wasn't hurting anymore. Any law that says he can't express a harmless opinion is oppressive, immoral, and illegitimate.Laihendi
Wasn't hurting anyone? Yeah, because this definitely can't be considered harassment and offensive to the friends, families and fellow officers of those two officers killed just hours earlier. :roll:

You're right, wearing a shirt cannot be considered harassment.

Yes, it can. There is a reason why bullying has been such a big topic in the US. Offensive statements, whether spoken or written, with the intention to offend and harass individuals, are often considered punishable offences. That is the case here. Get over it.

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Laihendi

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#27 Laihendi
Member since 2009 • 5872 Posts

[QUOTE="Laihendi"][QUOTE="SaintLeonidas"] Wasn't hurting anyone? Yeah, because this definitely can't be considered harassment and offensive to the friends, families and fellow officers of those two officers killed just hours earlier. :roll: SaintLeonidas

You're right, wearing a shirt cannot be considered harassment.

Yes, it can. There is a reason why bullying has been such a big topic in the US. Offensive statements, whether spoken or written, with the intention to offend and harass individuals, are often considered punishable offences. That is the case here. Get over it.

I realize it's considered a punishable offense. I'm saying it shouldn't be. You seem to believe that the law of the government is always right because the government says so. Wearing a shirt with a disagreeable opinion written on it is not harassment because it can be easily ignored. If every person who ever did something that someone else found offensive was jailed, we would all be in jail.

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Rhazakna

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#28 Rhazakna
Member since 2004 • 11022 Posts
The UK has many ridiculous laws against "hate speech" and other forms of expression that people find distasteful. The US is the only country that truly has free speech, except the media is heavily censored, ironically. Speech is far too limited in every country in the world, some more than others.
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Ncsoftlover

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#29 Ncsoftlover
Member since 2007 • 2152 Posts

Jailed for Twitter comments, facebook comments, wearing T-shirt, this is modern Britain?

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SaintLeonidas

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#30 SaintLeonidas
Member since 2006 • 26735 Posts
[QUOTE="SaintLeonidas"]

[QUOTE="Laihendi"] You're right, wearing a shirt cannot be considered harassment.Laihendi

Yes, it can. There is a reason why bullying has been such a big topic in the US. Offensive statements, whether spoken or written, with the intention to offend and harass individuals, are often considered punishable offences. That is the case here. Get over it.

I realize its considered a punishable offense. I'm saying it shouldn't be. You seem to believe that the law of the government is always right because the government says so. Wearing a shirt with a disagreeable opinion written on it is not harassment because it can be easily ignored. If every person who ever did something that someone else was offended by was jailed, we would all be in jail.

You seem to have zero understanding off the intent of the shirt, what the statement was saying and the intended targets of the shirt. It was not simply an "opinion" as you claim it to be. It also does not is anyway fit in with the usual "offensive" statements someone might make. It was created hours after two officers were gunned down. It is not an opinion but a statement made solely to offend the friends, family and fellow officers of those killed; officers who were still in the town investigating the murders. Not to mention your claim that "we would all be in jail" is a laughable exaggeration. People are always making offensive statements. They aren't all jailed. It is usually very rare, and depending on the case and the backlash by those offended, most people are not jailed. In this case this moron was. He did something he knew would offend, he knew could possibly get him arrested, he broke the law. Oh well.
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SolidSnake35

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#31 SolidSnake35
Member since 2005 • 58971 Posts

[QUOTE="SaintLeonidas"]

[QUOTE="Laihendi"] You're right, wearing a shirt cannot be considered harassment.Laihendi

Yes, it can. There is a reason why bullying has been such a big topic in the US. Offensive statements, whether spoken or written, with the intention to offend and harass individuals, are often considered punishable offences. That is the case here. Get over it.

I realize it's considered a punishable offense. I'm saying it shouldn't be. You seem to believe that the law of the government is always right because the government says so. Wearing a shirt with a disagreeable opinion written on it is not harassment because it can be easily ignored. If every person who ever did something that someone else found offensive was jailed, we would all be in jail.

I'm sorry that we have standards in England and don't take kindly to offensive morons.
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Fightingfan

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#32 Fightingfan
Member since 2010 • 38011 Posts
What's UK law on speech?
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Laihendi

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#33 Laihendi
Member since 2009 • 5872 Posts

[QUOTE="Laihendi"][QUOTE="SaintLeonidas"] Yes, it can. There is a reason why bullying has been such a big topic in the US. Offensive statements, whether spoken or written, with the intention to offend and harass individuals, are often considered punishable offences. That is the case here. Get over it.SaintLeonidas
I realize its considered a punishable offense. I'm saying it shouldn't be. You seem to believe that the law of the government is always right because the government says so. Wearing a shirt with a disagreeable opinion written on it is not harassment because it can be easily ignored. If every person who ever did something that someone else was offended by was jailed, we would all be in jail.

You seem to have zero understanding off the intent of the shirt, what the statement was saying and the intended targets of the shirt. It was not simply an "opinion" as you claim it to be. It also does not is anyway fit in with the usual "offensive" statements someone might make. It was created hours after two officers were gunned down. It is not an opinion but a statement made solely to offend the friends, family and fellow officers of those killed; officers who were still in the town investigating the murders. Not to mention your claim that "we would all be in jail" is a laughable exaggeration. People are always making offensive statements. They aren't all jailed. It is usually very rare, and depending on the case and the backlash by those offended, most people are not jailed. In this case this moron was. He did something he knew would offend, he knew could possibly get him arrested, he broke the law. Oh well.

You keep falling back on the "he broke the law" argument. I still don't think you understand me when I say there shouldn't be a law against what he did. You don't know what his motivation was, but even if he was deliberately trying to offend people, his method of expressing himself was passive and unobtrusive.

And obviously I'm aware that we're not all jailed when someone is offended by us. I'm saying that no one should be jailed for doing something that someone takes offense to. Offending people is harmless and unavoidable, and when someone is offended by something it his own fault for concerning himself with the business of someone else. People who saw his shirt had the option of ignoring it.

Using your attempt at logic, if enough people on this forum found your signature (a violent man with a gun!) offensive, it would be justifiable to arrest you and send you to jail.

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Fightingfan

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#34 Fightingfan
Member since 2010 • 38011 Posts

The UK has many ridiculous laws against "hate speech" and other forms of expression that people find distasteful. The US is the only country that truly has free speech, except the media is heavily censored, ironically. Speech is far too limited in every country in the world, some more than others.Rhazakna

I would say America is superior in that regard, you can say whatever you want as long as it doesn't cause a panic, or threatens the life of another individual.

'I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it,'

-Voltaire/Evelyn Hall

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Laihendi

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#35 Laihendi
Member since 2009 • 5872 Posts
[QUOTE="Laihendi"]

[QUOTE="SaintLeonidas"] Yes, it can. There is a reason why bullying has been such a big topic in the US. Offensive statements, whether spoken or written, with the intention to offend and harass individuals, are often considered punishable offences. That is the case here. Get over it.

SolidSnake35

I realize it's considered a punishable offense. I'm saying it shouldn't be. You seem to believe that the law of the government is always right because the government says so. Wearing a shirt with a disagreeable opinion written on it is not harassment because it can be easily ignored. If every person who ever did something that someone else found offensive was jailed, we would all be in jail.

I'm sorry that we have standards in England and don't take kindly to offensive morons.

Your country is run by an oppressive authoritarian regime that arrests people for violating arbitrary standards of decency.
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krazykillaz

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#36 krazykillaz
Member since 2002 • 21141 Posts
It's in poor taste, but it shouldn't be illegal.
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SaintLeonidas

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#37 SaintLeonidas
Member since 2006 • 26735 Posts

[QUOTE="SaintLeonidas"][QUOTE="Laihendi"] I realize its considered a punishable offense. I'm saying it shouldn't be. You seem to believe that the law of the government is always right because the government says so. Wearing a shirt with a disagreeable opinion written on it is not harassment because it can be easily ignored. If every person who ever did something that someone else was offended by was jailed, we would all be in jail.Laihendi

You seem to have zero understanding off the intent of the shirt, what the statement was saying and the intended targets of the shirt. It was not simply an "opinion" as you claim it to be. It also does not is anyway fit in with the usual "offensive" statements someone might make. It was created hours after two officers were gunned down. It is not an opinion but a statement made solely to offend the friends, family and fellow officers of those killed; officers who were still in the town investigating the murders. Not to mention your claim that "we would all be in jail" is a laughable exaggeration. People are always making offensive statements. They aren't all jailed. It is usually very rare, and depending on the case and the backlash by those offended, most people are not jailed. In this case this moron was. He did something he knew would offend, he knew could possibly get him arrested, he broke the law. Oh well.

You keep falling back on the "he broke the law" argument. I still don't think you understand me when I say there shouldn't be a law against what he did. You don't know what his motivation was, but even if he was deliberately trying to offend people, his method of expressing himself was passive and unobtrusive.

And obviously I'm aware that we're not all jailed when someone is offended by us. I'm saying that no one should be jailed for doing something that someone takes offense to. Offending people is harmless and unavoidable, and when someone is offended by something it his own fault for concerning himself with the business of someone else. People who saw his shirt had the option of ignoring it.

Using your attempt at logic, if enough people on this forum found your signature (a violent man with a gun!) offensive, it would be justifiable to arrest you and send you to jail.

But it is the law. If you don't like it move to the UK and try to get it removed. But until it is, the law is the law, you break it you go to jail. Doesn't matter if you agree with the law or not, the simple fact that it is law and he did break it makes this story rather pointless.

"People who saw his shirt had the option of ignoring it" only someone with the simplest mind could think that ignoring such a thing would be so easy to those it targetted considering the context.

A context that you clearly have ignored. If he had just been wearing that shirt on any other day, even if people took offense, nothing would have happened. It is the context of the story, when he did it, where, the clear motivation behind it, that made what would normally be an "ignorable" offensive statement to clear harassment and intent to hurt, emotionally, those connected to the peole killed. Again trying to make comparisions like my thread or as someone posted earlier a "f*ck emos" t-shirt is laughable.

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Rhazakna

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#38 Rhazakna
Member since 2004 • 11022 Posts

But it is the law. If you don't like it move to the UK and try to get it removed. But until it is, the law is the law, you break it you go to jail. Doesn't matter if you agree with the law or not, the simple fact that it is law and he did break it makes this story rather pointless.

"People who saw his shirt had the option of ignoring it" only someone with the simplest mind could think that ignoring such a thing would be so easy to those it targetted considering the context.

A context that you clearly have ignored. If he had just been wearing that shirt on any other day, even if people took offense, nothing would have happened. It is the context of the story, when he did it, where, the clear motivation behind it, that made what would normally be an "ignorable" offensive statement to clear harassment and intent to hurt, emotionally, those connected to the peole killed. Again trying to make comparisions like my thread or as someone posted earlier a "f*ck emos" t-shirt is laughable.

SaintLeonidas
Hurting someone's feeling should not be against the law, under any circumstances.
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SouL-Tak3R

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#39 SouL-Tak3R
Member since 2005 • 4024 Posts

Some off duty cops should have just beat the hell out of him haha He was asking for something.

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Chicken453

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#40 Chicken453
Member since 2011 • 2038 Posts

Some off duty cops should have just beat the hell out of him haha He was asking for something.

SouL-Tak3R
You can't do that here ._.
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Crushmaster

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#41 Crushmaster
Member since 2008 • 4324 Posts


The guy's a sicko, but he shouldn't have been jailed for wearing that. It wasn't a personal threat or anything.
God bless,
Crushmaster.

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deactivated-59d151f079814

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#42 deactivated-59d151f079814
Member since 2003 • 47239 Posts

[QUOTE="SaintLeonidas"][QUOTE="Laihendi"] I realize its considered a punishable offense. I'm saying it shouldn't be. You seem to believe that the law of the government is always right because the government says so. Wearing a shirt with a disagreeable opinion written on it is not harassment because it can be easily ignored. If every person who ever did something that someone else was offended by was jailed, we would all be in jail.Laihendi

You seem to have zero understanding off the intent of the shirt, what the statement was saying and the intended targets of the shirt. It was not simply an "opinion" as you claim it to be. It also does not is anyway fit in with the usual "offensive" statements someone might make. It was created hours after two officers were gunned down. It is not an opinion but a statement made solely to offend the friends, family and fellow officers of those killed; officers who were still in the town investigating the murders. Not to mention your claim that "we would all be in jail" is a laughable exaggeration. People are always making offensive statements. They aren't all jailed. It is usually very rare, and depending on the case and the backlash by those offended, most people are not jailed. In this case this moron was. He did something he knew would offend, he knew could possibly get him arrested, he broke the law. Oh well.

You keep falling back on the "he broke the law" argument. I still don't think you understand me when I say there shouldn't be a law against what he did. You don't know what his motivation was, but even if he was deliberately trying to offend people, his method of expressing himself was passive and unobtrusive.

And obviously I'm aware that we're not all jailed when someone is offended by us. I'm saying that no one should be jailed for doing something that someone takes offense to. Offending people is harmless and unavoidable, and when someone is offended by something it his own fault for concerning himself with the business of someone else. People who saw his shirt had the option of ignoring it.

Using your attempt at logic, if enough people on this forum found your signature (a violent man with a gun!) offensive, it would be justifiable to arrest you and send you to jail.

This isn't the United States.. Not every one has the same limits and guidelines for free speech..

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ShadowsDemon

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#43 ShadowsDemon
Member since 2012 • 10059 Posts
It's a bad t-shirt, but jailing? Na-ah. Going too far.
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#44 TacticalDesire
Member since 2010 • 10713 Posts

Meh, in principle he shouldn't have been jailed and should have been allowed to wear the T-shirt, but I have no sympathy for the scum. It has to be a terrible experience for the friends and family, and this shirt just makes it that much worse.

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Jethawk11

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#45 Jethawk11
Member since 2011 • 296 Posts

While the shirt is pretty tasteless, there's absolutely no reason to arrest him for that. Leave prison for actual criminals who threaten society.

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lundy86_4

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#46 lundy86_4
Member since 2003 • 61509 Posts

Under a Public Order Offence, this is justified. Though I find the sentence to be excessive.

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LJS9502_basic

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#47 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 178854 Posts
I don't believe in jailing anyone for their thoughts. Shame UK shame.
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The__Kraken

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#48 The__Kraken
Member since 2012 • 858 Posts

Voltaire (I think): "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"

UK: "I disapprove of what you say, therefor, jail"

Funny how times have "changed", eh?

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gamerguru100

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#49 gamerguru100
Member since 2009 • 12718 Posts

The guy is a douche, but jailing someone over offensive content is just some fascist bulls*it.

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gamerguru100

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#50 gamerguru100
Member since 2009 • 12718 Posts

Voltaire (I think): "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"

UK: "I disapprove of what you say, therefor, jail"

Funny how times have "changed", eh?

The__Kraken
Political correctness is much to blame.