British man jailed for wearing offensive t-shirt

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#51 Posted by gamerguru100 (10804 posts) -

While the shirt is pretty tasteless, there's absolutely no reason to arrest him for that. Leave prison for actual criminals who threaten society.

Jethawk11
Quoted for damn truth. American prisons are overcrowded because a large percentage of prisoners are in for drug offenses. Drug addicts should be rejuvenated, and only put in prison if they refuse to get help. Prisons should be primarily reserved for murderers, rapists, and robbers/burglars.
#52 Posted by SolidSnake35 (58226 posts) -
[QUOTE="SolidSnake35"][QUOTE="Laihendi"] I realize it's considered a punishable offense. I'm saying it shouldn't be. You seem to believe that the law of the government is always right because the government says so. Wearing a shirt with a disagreeable opinion written on it is not harassment because it can be easily ignored. If every person who ever did something that someone else found offensive was jailed, we would all be in jail.Laihendi
I'm sorry that we have standards in England and don't take kindly to offensive morons.

Your country is run by an oppressive authoritarian regime that arrests people for violating arbitrary standards of decency.

Cool. We're a decent people then. I guess you aren't decent?
#53 Posted by Brutal_Elitegs (16270 posts) -

4 months for being a dick? Jesus.

#54 Posted by TheFallenDemon (13933 posts) -

man kraychik would've gone giddy with glee with this thread

#55 Posted by muller39 (14944 posts) -

He's a moron but I don't think he should be jailed for it.

tryagainlater
#56 Posted by Ace6301 (21389 posts) -

Voltaire (I think): "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"

UK: "I disapprove of what you say, therefor, jail"

Funny how times have "changed", eh?

The__Kraken
To be fair Voltaire was French and historically the two have been at odds.
#57 Posted by Shmiity (5217 posts) -

Total freedom of speech violation there. However, Im not sure how the UK laws compare to USA. It might be offensive... but it's a shirt. Who cares. It's a shirt.

#58 Posted by markop2003 (29917 posts) -
He should have been jailed but not for the offensive message but for the lack of a comma in it.
#59 Posted by SolidSnake35 (58226 posts) -

Total freedom of speech violation there. However, Im not sure how the UK laws compare to USA. It might be offensive... but it's a shirt. Who cares. It's a shirt.

Shmiity
A shirt can be read by anyone of any age. On a similar note, in America, don't you censor butt cracks on TV?
#60 Posted by Overlord93 (12602 posts) -

Probably would have wound up in jail for shoplifting anyway.

It is a reebok shirt

#61 Posted by Shmiity (5217 posts) -

[QUOTE="Shmiity"]

Total freedom of speech violation there. However, Im not sure how the UK laws compare to USA. It might be offensive... but it's a shirt. Who cares. It's a shirt.

SolidSnake35

A shirt can be read by anyone of any age. On a similar note, in America, don't you censor butt cracks on TV?

What does that have to do with anything? It's a shirt. You should not be arrested for your thoughts. Also, are butts sensored on USA tv? Maybe, but... you also don't get arrested for it.

I hope this case blows up- I mean, sure, it was offensive, but its 2012... come on UK.

#62 Posted by SolidSnake35 (58226 posts) -

[QUOTE="SolidSnake35"][QUOTE="Shmiity"]

Total freedom of speech violation there. However, Im not sure how the UK laws compare to USA. It might be offensive... but it's a shirt. Who cares. It's a shirt.

Shmiity

A shirt can be read by anyone of any age. On a similar note, in America, don't you censor butt cracks on TV?

What does that have to do with anything? It's a shirt. You should not be arrested for your thoughts. Also, are butts sensored on USA tv? Maybe, but... you also don't get arrested for it.

I hope this case blows up- I mean, sure, it was offensive, but its 2012... come on UK.

You should if your thoughts influence people. Do you want murderers sharing their thoughts on the best ways to kill people to your children? And of course you don't, but you probably get sued for showing some butt. Where's the freedom there?
#63 Posted by The__Kraken (851 posts) -

To be fair Voltaire was French and historically the two have been at odds.Ace6301

I was actually getting at the idea that times have not actually changed much at all. Voltaire was not particularly at peace with the establishment, and (if my memory is not mistaken) he was often not too far away from being arrested and imprisoned for his opinions and criticisms of government/religion. Even that famous quote was at odds with the traditional views held by the French government and the religious authority in France at the time. Voltaire was met with the whole "I disapprove of what you say, therefor, jail" sentiment in his time.

Even today, one can potentially be arrested in many different countries for what is conceptually similar to what Voltaire did. After a few centuries, times have truly "changed" (which is to say, things have not changed much at all in certain aspects). Fact is, the sentiment that Voltaire had is still at odds with the views held by much of the world today.

#64 Posted by nunovlopes (2607 posts) -

[QUOTE="meconate"][QUOTE="Laihendi"] If it's against their laws then the problem is their laws.SaintLeonidas
I once saw a guy wearing a t-shirt saying 'F*ck Emos' and the police didn't bat an eyelid. Yet somebody wears this and it's a whole different story. Not that I have any particular love for emos, I don't care either way.

Right, yes, a shirt saying "f*ck emos* is definitely comparable to a shirt directed towards police officers just hours after two were killed. :roll: The man is a moron trying to intentionally offend the friends and family of two innocent officers gunned down. Whether you agree with his jailing or not, their law is still the law, this ditsh*t broke it, move on.

So there is a law that specifically states that if 2 police officers are killed you can't wear a t-shirt like that within the next few hours?

#65 Posted by nunovlopes (2607 posts) -

[QUOTE="Laihendi"][QUOTE="SaintLeonidas"] Right, yes, a shirt saying "f*ck emos* is definitely comparable to a shirt directed towards police officers just hours after two were killed. :roll: The man is a moron trying to intentionally offend the friends and family of two innocent officers gunned down. Whether you agree with his jailing or not, their law is still the law, this ditsh*t broke it, move on. SaintLeonidas
He expressed an opinion by wearing that shirt. Regardless of how stupid that opinion may be, he wasn't hurting anymore. Any law that says he can't express a harmless opinion is oppressive, immoral, and illegitimate.

Wasn't hurting anyone? Yeah, because this definitely can't be considered harassment and offensive to the friends, families and fellow officers of those two officers killed just hours earlier. :roll:

So sue the guy into oblivion. Unless there's a law specifically covering this, I don't see how he can be jailed legally.

#66 Posted by SolidSnake35 (58226 posts) -

[QUOTE="SaintLeonidas"][QUOTE="meconate"] I once saw a guy wearing a t-shirt saying 'F*ck Emos' and the police didn't bat an eyelid. Yet somebody wears this and it's a whole different story. Not that I have any particular love for emos, I don't care either way.nunovlopes

Right, yes, a shirt saying "f*ck emos* is definitely comparable to a shirt directed towards police officers just hours after two were killed. :roll: The man is a moron trying to intentionally offend the friends and family of two innocent officers gunned down. Whether you agree with his jailing or not, their law is still the law, this ditsh*t broke it, move on.

So there is a law that specifically states that if 2 police officers are killed you can't wear a t-shirt like that within the next few hours?

Yes. Look it up.
#67 Posted by nunovlopes (2607 posts) -

[QUOTE="nunovlopes"]

[QUOTE="SaintLeonidas"] Right, yes, a shirt saying "f*ck emos* is definitely comparable to a shirt directed towards police officers just hours after two were killed. :roll: The man is a moron trying to intentionally offend the friends and family of two innocent officers gunned down. Whether you agree with his jailing or not, their law is still the law, this ditsh*t broke it, move on. SolidSnake35

So there is a law that specifically states that if 2 police officers are killed you can't wear a t-shirt like that within the next few hours?

Yes. Look it up.

What if it's the next day, is that ok?

#68 Posted by o0squishy0o (2772 posts) -

I would have thought it would have been sensible for the guy to be jailed for wearing such a shirt. People who say "freedom of speech ftw" honestly have little idea of the implication of how bad freedom of speech can be.

Sure it would be fine if everyone could switch off from seeing things and hearing things but people can not. Its the same way that if you burn a koran, you are going to get people coming after you. You burn an English, USA or whereever flag, you are going to get people coming after you. It will simply cause problems that can be easily avoided if you put people like this guy away for a day or so, so they get over their stupid idea.

Just imagine if you had a younger member of your family raped by someone, abused in a horrific way, I come along wearing a t-shirt saying "yeah that *insert name* had a tight ******" I am sure you would probably want to kill me. However do you think I have a justifiable reason aside from "freedom of speech" to do such a thing? Do I have the right to cause you distress with such a t-shirt. No I dont believe I do, and I believe that is common sense. Dont be a pr1ck and everyone can get along.

#69 Posted by shadowkiller11 (7956 posts) -
[QUOTE="SolidSnake35"][QUOTE="Laihendi"][QUOTE="SolidSnake35"] I'm sorry that we have standards in England and don't take kindly to offensive morons.

Your country is run by an oppressive authoritarian regime that arrests people for violating arbitrary standards of decency.

Cool. We're a decent people then. I guess you aren't decent?

You're actually defending this situation? I'm British and I'm with these guys. How would you like it if we censor your views on something just because we don't agree on it? While freedom Of speech you do get the idiot exploiters but it's a fair compromise for freedom of speech.
#70 Posted by The_Gaming_Baby (6337 posts) -
This is a blatant violation of freedom of speech. Laihendi
#71 Posted by APiranhaAteMyVa (2943 posts) -

I would have thought it would have been sensible for the guy to be jailed for wearing such a shirt. People who say "freedom of speech ftw" honestly have little idea of the implication of how bad freedom of speech can be.

Sure it would be fine if everyone could switch off from seeing things and hearing things but people can not. Its the same way that if you burn a koran, you are going to get people coming after you. You burn an English, USA or whereever flag, you are going to get people coming after you. It will simply cause problems that can be easily avoided if you put people like this guy away for a day or so, so they get over their stupid idea.

Just imagine if you had a younger member of your family raped by someone, abused in a horrific way, I come along wearing a t-shirt saying "yeah that *insert name* had a tight ******" I am sure you would probably want to kill me. However do you think I have a justifiable reason aside from "freedom of speech" to do such a thing? Do I have the right to cause you distress with such a t-shirt. No I dont believe I do, and I believe that is common sense. Dont be a pr1ck and everyone can get along.

o0squishy0o

That's up to the individual to think of the consequences of those they offend. The problem with censoring freedom of speech is, when does it stop? There is always someone offended by something.

#72 Posted by GazaAli (23522 posts) -
Freedom of speech can go fvck itself when someone crosses such boundaries. Have a good time there hero.
#73 Posted by MrMr-x2 (88 posts) -
Everyone should be entitled to make an ass of themselves without being jailed. he should instead be marginalized and ridiculed.
#74 Posted by MrMr-x2 (88 posts) -
Freedom of speech can go fvck itself when someone crosses such boundaries. Have a good time there hero.GazaAli
As soon as you are jailed for expressing your mind your view on this would change at a drop of a hat.
#75 Posted by EJ902 (14398 posts) -
It's disgusting but I'm not a fan of the public order laws in the uk being implemented in this way. The idea is the police have the power to act on those who cause "harrasment, alarm or distress" (as that t-shirt certainly would have). But when you're talking about people acting on things that simply hurt others' feelings and nothing more, that should not the job of the police in my opinion. I especially don't like how recently it's been used against people posting hateful content on twitter. I don't follow the logic of using the public order act on twitter, which is not public domain and has its own terms of use that does not forbid hateful and offensive content.
#76 Posted by mAArdman (1612 posts) -

Hope they have a lot of spare jail cells if they want to incarcerate every disrespectful bastard.

#77 Posted by SPYDER0416 (16736 posts) -

He's an idiot, but jailing him seems a bit much.

#78 Posted by GazaAli (23522 posts) -
[QUOTE="GazaAli"]Freedom of speech can go fvck itself when someone crosses such boundaries. Have a good time there hero.MrMr-x2
As soon as you are jailed for expressing your mind your view on this would change at a drop of a hat.

I do believe people should be entitled to expressing their minds, but I also know my limits.
#79 Posted by LJS9502_basic (151905 posts) -
[QUOTE="Shmiity"]

[QUOTE="SolidSnake35"] A shirt can be read by anyone of any age. On a similar note, in America, don't you censor butt cracks on TV?SolidSnake35

What does that have to do with anything? It's a shirt. You should not be arrested for your thoughts. Also, are butts sensored on USA tv? Maybe, but... you also don't get arrested for it.

I hope this case blows up- I mean, sure, it was offensive, but its 2012... come on UK.

You should if your thoughts influence people. Do you want murderers sharing their thoughts on the best ways to kill people to your children? And of course you don't, but you probably get sued for showing some butt. Where's the freedom there?

So you're saying the British can't make up their own minds but follow T-shirt slogans? Seems a problem with the population then.
#80 Posted by LJS9502_basic (151905 posts) -

Freedom of speech can go fvck itself when someone crosses such boundaries. Have a good time there hero.GazaAli
I'm not suprised to see you against freedom of individuals in the least.

#81 Posted by LaytonsCat (3652 posts) -

He's an idiot ,but none of the words were inflammatory.

roulettethedog

He was making fun of the police right after two local officers had been killed... I think he got what he deserved

#82 Posted by LJS9502_basic (151905 posts) -

[QUOTE="roulettethedog"]

He's an idiot ,but none of the words were inflammatory.

LaytonsCat

He was making fun of the police right after two local officers had been killed... I think he got what he deserved

Wow what a world we live in where making fun of anyone is considered a crime. Sad....
#83 Posted by achilles614 (4865 posts) -
I guess it's cool to respect a ridiculous law in the UK but when it's a ridiculous law in a middle eastern country everyone jumps on the hate bandwagon. Classic OT. :)
#84 Posted by Kamekazi_69 (4704 posts) -

[QUOTE="MrMr-x2"][QUOTE="GazaAli"]Freedom of speech can go fvck itself when someone crosses such boundaries. Have a good time there hero.GazaAli
As soon as you are jailed for expressing your mind your view on this would change at a drop of a hat.

I do believe people should be entitled to expressing their minds, but I also know my limits.

Thats why its called freedom of speech. It not there to satisfty your limits or anyone elses. I honestly can't believe people should lawfully punish others over a dumb statement. I did not know England was like that. dawm

#85 Posted by Kamekazi_69 (4704 posts) -
[QUOTE="achilles614"]I guess it's cool to respect a ridiculous law in the UK but when it's a ridiculous law in a middle eastern country everyone jumps on the hate bandwagon. Classic OT. :)

Double standards. its all over OT and rears its ugly head sometimes
#86 Posted by JohnF111 (14105 posts) -
If it was intended towards someone then yes, he broke the law so I garee with the verdict, if however it was a generalized statement about police such as "F**k the police!" then that's fine and is an opinion, this however was personal.
#87 Posted by LJS9502_basic (151905 posts) -
[QUOTE="achilles614"]I guess it's cool to respect a ridiculous law in the UK but when it's a ridiculous law in a middle eastern country everyone jumps on the hate bandwagon. Classic OT. :)

I was noticing that myself.....but I didn't want to bring it up.
#88 Posted by JohnF111 (14105 posts) -

[QUOTE="GazaAli"][QUOTE="MrMr-x2"] As soon as you are jailed for expressing your mind your view on this would change at a drop of a hat. Kamekazi_69

I do believe people should be entitled to expressing their minds, but I also know my limits.

Thats why its called freedom of speech. It not there to satisfty your limits or anyone elses. I honestly can't believe people should lawfully punish others over a dumb statement. I did not know England was like that. dawm

It wasn't a statement, he only did this when specific people had died, that's not just freedom of speech, he might as well have gone to the funeral and said "Good riddance scum!" to the coffin.
#89 Posted by LJS9502_basic (151905 posts) -
[QUOTE="Kamekazi_69"]

[QUOTE="GazaAli"] I do believe people should be entitled to expressing their minds, but I also know my limits.JohnF111

Thats why its called freedom of speech. It not there to satisfty your limits or anyone elses. I honestly can't believe people should lawfully punish others over a dumb statement. I did not know England was like that. dawm

It wasn't a statement, he only did this when specific people had died, that's not just freedom of speech, he might as well have gone to the funeral and said "Good riddance scum!" to the coffin.

Doesn't matter the when. Speech is either free or it's not. And in the UK...it doesn't seem to be free.
#90 Posted by Chicken453 (2038 posts) -
Some of you people in America have no idea what is going on with this case. One of the main reasons he got arrested for what you all think is a little free speech, is thtat, the deaths of the police officers was all over the nation news, with Cameron giving a few words for the passed police officers. It was/is a highly spoken about case here, where every bit of new information goes straight onto national news.
#91 Posted by LJS9502_basic (151905 posts) -
[QUOTE="Chicken453"]Some of you people in America have no idea what is going on with this case. One of the main reasons he got arrested for what you all think is a little free speech, is thtat, the deaths of the police officers was all over the nation news, with Cameron giving a few words for the passed police officers. It was/is a highly spoken about case here, where every bit of new information goes straight onto national news.

We understand that. It doesn't change our opinion. Free speech is important to us. Perhaps it's not to you but when you start limiting freedom....it generally erodes.
#92 Posted by Kamekazi_69 (4704 posts) -
[QUOTE="Kamekazi_69"]

[QUOTE="GazaAli"] I do believe people should be entitled to expressing their minds, but I also know my limits.JohnF111

Thats why its called freedom of speech. It not there to satisfty your limits or anyone elses. I honestly can't believe people should lawfully punish others over a dumb statement. I did not know England was like that. dawm

It wasn't a statement, he only did this when specific people had died, that's not just freedom of speech, he might as well have gone to the funeral and said "Good riddance scum!" to the coffin.

Point of view then. Offensive? Yes, Lets not forget the inbreds running Westboro baptist church picketing soldiers' funerals (I know in the US not in the UK, but Im throwing an example out as I am not well familiar with UK law on Verbal expression). Again, is it offensive and hurtful? absolutely, and disgusting, but you fight with words. Again freedom of speech is a loose term but it should imply ones freedom of expression. We can't nit pick what is okay and what isnt. You fight back with words, with protest, with numbers, but to jail someone? I just do not agree with it.
#93 Posted by chrisrooR (9027 posts) -
Pretty insensitive of him to do that, but nobody should be jailed for that.
#94 Posted by JohnF111 (14105 posts) -

[QUOTE="JohnF111"][QUOTE="Kamekazi_69"]

Thats why its called freedom of speech. It not there to satisfty your limits or anyone elses. I honestly can't believe people should lawfully punish others over a dumb statement. I did not know England was like that. dawm

LJS9502_basic

It wasn't a statement, he only did this when specific people had died, that's not just freedom of speech, he might as well have gone to the funeral and said "Good riddance scum!" to the coffin.

Doesn't matter the when. Speech is either free or it's not. And in the UK...it doesn't seem to be free.

section 4a public order offence - displaying writing or other visible representation with intention of causing harassment, alarm or distress.

Sucks to be him but it's his own fault.

#95 Posted by LJS9502_basic (151905 posts) -

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="JohnF111"] It wasn't a statement, he only did this when specific people had died, that's not just freedom of speech, he might as well have gone to the funeral and said "Good riddance scum!" to the coffin.JohnF111

Doesn't matter the when. Speech is either free or it's not. And in the UK...it doesn't seem to be free.

section 4a public order offence - displaying writing or other visible representation with intention of causing harassment, alarm or distress.

Sucks to be him but it's his own fault.

I'm not arguing that it's the law...I'm arguing it's a bad law. Big difference.:|
#96 Posted by GazaAli (23522 posts) -
[QUOTE="JohnF111"][QUOTE="Kamekazi_69"]

Thats why its called freedom of speech. It not there to satisfty your limits or anyone elses. I honestly can't believe people should lawfully punish others over a dumb statement. I did not know England was like that. dawm

Kamekazi_69
It wasn't a statement, he only did this when specific people had died, that's not just freedom of speech, he might as well have gone to the funeral and said "Good riddance scum!" to the coffin.

Point of view then. Offensive? Yes, Lets not forget the inbreds running Westboro baptist church picketing soldiers' funerals (I know in the US not in the UK, but Im throwing an example out as I am not well familiar with UK law on Verbal expression). Again, is it offensive and hurtful? absolutely, and disgusting, but you fight with words. Again freedom of speech is a loose term but it should imply ones freedom of expression. We can't nit pick what is okay and what isnt. You fight back with words, with protest, with numbers, but to jail someone? I just do not agree with it.

Its funny you brought up the WBC as I remember sometime ago, there was a topic about the a law in the US preventing WBC from picketing soldiers' funerals and it was met with great acceptance by OT. I met it with such acceptance, but brought the point that under OT's definition of freedom of speech, that was surely limiting it in the US.
#98 Posted by Kamekazi_69 (4704 posts) -
[QUOTE="GazaAli"][QUOTE="Kamekazi_69"][QUOTE="JohnF111"] It wasn't a statement, he only did this when specific people had died, that's not just freedom of speech, he might as well have gone to the funeral and said "Good riddance scum!" to the coffin.

Point of view then. Offensive? Yes, Lets not forget the inbreds running Westboro baptist church picketing soldiers' funerals (I know in the US not in the UK, but Im throwing an example out as I am not well familiar with UK law on Verbal expression). Again, is it offensive and hurtful? absolutely, and disgusting, but you fight with words. Again freedom of speech is a loose term but it should imply ones freedom of expression. We can't nit pick what is okay and what isnt. You fight back with words, with protest, with numbers, but to jail someone? I just do not agree with it.

Its funny you brought up the WBC as I remember sometime ago, there was a topic about the a law in the US preventing WBC from picketing soldiers' funerals and it was met with great acceptance by OT. I met it with such acceptance, but brought the point that under OT's definition of freedom of speech, that was surely limiting it in the US.

The bill requires them to be within a certain amount of feet within the premise of a funeral and allowed to protest withing certain hours I believe that is. Sure that should be questioned, but they are still allowed to spew their filth to the world without repercussion. You are still allowed to protest the bill.
#99 Posted by LJS9502_basic (151905 posts) -
[QUOTE="GazaAli"][QUOTE="Kamekazi_69"][QUOTE="JohnF111"] It wasn't a statement, he only did this when specific people had died, that's not just freedom of speech, he might as well have gone to the funeral and said "Good riddance scum!" to the coffin.

Point of view then. Offensive? Yes, Lets not forget the inbreds running Westboro baptist church picketing soldiers' funerals (I know in the US not in the UK, but Im throwing an example out as I am not well familiar with UK law on Verbal expression). Again, is it offensive and hurtful? absolutely, and disgusting, but you fight with words. Again freedom of speech is a loose term but it should imply ones freedom of expression. We can't nit pick what is okay and what isnt. You fight back with words, with protest, with numbers, but to jail someone? I just do not agree with it.

Its funny you brought up the WBC as I remember sometime ago, there was a topic about the a law in the US preventing WBC from picketing soldiers' funerals and it was met with great acceptance by OT. I met it with such acceptance, but brought the point that under OT's definition of freedom of speech, that was surely limiting it in the US.

No one is stopping the WBC from spewing hate. They just have to keep back from the actual funeral. Which is nothing new. Demonstrations do have to have a permit and all. Before speaking...maybe do some research.
#100 Posted by NiKva (8768 posts) -
This is a blatant violation of freedom of speech. Laihendi
Its pretty obvious that Britain doesn't have the freedom of speech.