Are you Religious or Atheist OT?

More like the leader, am I right?

Neither, I believe there is something after death but I don't follow any certain religion, just try to be a good person

Really? This topic again? Still an Atheist who has a hard time understanding thesists

I believe in God but not in religion. Sorry.

Yes, I am a Christian. No, I don't live under a rock and come out on sundays just to judge people.

Never understood this. Can you elaborate on how you can believe in a god but not in a religion from which you have learned about said god?

I think for most people who make that statement it's mostly a God v church thing but it doesn't have to be. You can believe that a god exists but not believe in any specific one and not follow any religion.

Yes. But their beliefs are a bit different.

@LJS9502_basic: True, but at a certain point these discussions just break down into long, protracted arguments about what exactly an agnostic is, what it isn't, what different types of agnostics are, etc. I'd rather just say atheist, and then if people are genuinely interested in all the specifics about what I believe I can tell them. It's really bad with agnostic, too, because I feel like most people think it means "I don't know whether or not there's a god," when it could also mean "I'm pretty sure there is/isn't a god, but I don't know." Labels are supposed to make discussion easier, not harder.

I'm an Atheist have been since I first really gave religion any real thought (probably around 12-13) im 31 now.

I'm going to sound a bit like Matt Dilahunty here, but what hes says makes sense.

I think its beneficial to care is something is true and form your life choices around that, this applies to anything to do with Gods/religions, there is no reason to believe any of it is true.

So the reason I'm an Atheist is because I dont believe Theist claims due to no evidence, my view may change if evidence is ever found.

I would like to ask any Theists who will answer, why you believe in what you believe ?

If the answer is faith/makes me happy, my next question would be do you care if your beliefs are true ?

As a heads up the CoC still applies here.

You can disagree with a person without being condescending or derogatory.

That's fine. I just see agnostics at not committed.:p

@LJS9502_basic: I think some people declare themselves agnostic due to not actaully understanding what atheist actaully means.

Atheist means lack of belief in God/God's, it's often misunderstood as a belief there is no Guarantee, or a stronger version of agnosticism.

Theone86 is right though, a lot of time is wasted is some discussions debating semantics, instead of actaully discussing our beliefs

@korvus: you got my point!

I assume most of you will say you atheist and everyone who is religious is stupid/ uneducated. But I am a Christian and proud of it. I also have a bachelor's degree and currently going back to school for my master's degree shocker right??!!

As a Christian I do find it funny Atheist say Christians are intolerant and hateful but yet MANY of them get triggered and act like complete A holes anytime they hear the words Jesus or the bible. Then they like to play the "victim card" when they encounter someone who gives them a taste to their own medicine or they encounter someone who has different beliefs than them. Militant atheist treat their atheism like a religion these days and scientists are their Gods.

Quoted for truth

I reject your' claim that you know any atheists. To make the claim that scientists are our "gods" shows complete ignorance. Atheists believe in rationality, and thus the scientific method is appealing. We like the scientific method as the means to gain knowledge.

Please...feel free to enjoy your' bit o' crazy (we all have our vices, eh?) with your religion, while pretending having a degree matters in any regard to the delusion and confirmation bias you put yourself into. It's more comfortable over there...don't come to the dark side. The truth isn't pretty.

@iron_legion87: Awfully defensive. As a former Christian I did not earlier understand how pervasive and inescapable Christianity is in our culture. Politics, greetings, media, sports, whatever. Have some perspective. If the Government prayed to Santa Claus after every mass shooting, people said "thank Santa" after every lovely thing that happened to them or after somebody died, or that extensive amount of local buildings are painted in Christmas trees and elves, or so on and so forth.

For atheists, God/Christ whatever is exactly like that. An entire inescapable culture centered around make believe, that can be incredibly irritating. While it's no excuse for being an asshole you really can't blame people for being defensive or reactionary.

Then they like to play the "victim card" when they encounter someone who gives them a taste to their own medicine or they encounter someone who has different beliefs than them.

We're literally drowning in Christianity. Many Americans haven't even met an atheist. Objectively as a whole, Atheists are in fact more tolerant.

Absolutely.

And here we have the vegan version of a Christian.

I have a BA as well, in Religious/Asian Studies no less, but don't go flaunting it around like it somehow improves the credibility of my position.

@iron_legion87: so to paraphrase: "atheists keep playing the victim and they're intolerant and hateful of me! I'm the real victim!"

Was that a joke post?

This topic comes up a lot. I've posted in so many of these as of late and I don't even come here too regularly. lol

I'm irreligious and an atheist. I was raised to be a Christian, but couldn't ever feel the existence of a 'God' for myself. I believed that my family and community had some knowledge of this God that I had not yet experienced, so I put my trust in that idea.

My experiences never came, nor did any reasons to believe. I also was exposed to what the Bible really says about women, slavery, homosexuality, etc., and it led me pretty definitively to "No just God would ever sanction this, ever." Even though I rationally had no reason to believe in God for a long time by this point, this was what finally pushed me to be able to overlook the indoctrination and proclaim "I can't accept this, absolutely not".

As an atheist I apologize that so many atheists call people being religious a matter of intelligence.

Although, degrees aren't necessarily an indication of intelligence. You're right that atheists shouldn't be calling religious people stupid, because the reasons people are caught in religious belief are a separate matter, but oversimplifying the matter is not necessarily going to help your cause. In fact, I'm not sure your cause can really be helped, because the atheists who are calling religious believers stupid are already thinking about the matter too simplistically, and an argument about this with them isn't even worth your time.

I consider myself open minded. I don't follow any specific belief but conversationally, I lean on any afterlife ideology only because there is nothing to talk about the alternative...which is nothing. I mean if you are literally nothing on any conscious level when you die, then what is there to discuss regarding that? Although it's all irrelevant as each and every single one of us will either know the answer at some point, or know nothing at all.

I used to be a devout Catholic ( by devout I mean not just going to church every Sunday and holidays, I also read a ton of books both to deepen my faith and to defend it againat atheists, Protestants, Buddhists, ect). Then one day in 2009 I became convined God does not exist due to the suffering and evil in this world. If he exists, but he doesn't do anything then he's not a loving God. Why should I worship a God that doesn't give a crap about humankind ? All argumenta for the existence of God are just pointless to me, maybe he exists, so what ? What benefits do I get when I worship a God who diesn't care about humankind ?

Now I don't say there is no God, I just believe a God exists.

I was going to try to say something similar, but you said it better than I could have. Add to that the fact that for a lot of us atheists, our interactions with religious people haven't exactly been positive. My dad threatened to throw me out of the house when I stopped going to church, my uncle outed me to my family when he saw I was an atheist on facebook, every time I run into life issues or get into an argument with someone I'm told my problem is that I don't have god in my life. I grew up in a church where teachers would basically use religion to tell kids why everything they liked, from pokemon and Harry Potter to any music not played on "classical" instruments, was sinful. Those same teachers assaulted me with no punishment and told me that I was sinning against god by being overweight. And I won't even get into all the political crap, except to say that Christians have no idea what it's like to be treated with suspicion and have your character called into question the way atheists and other religious minorities do. Politicians in this country, on a regular basis, make statements along the lines of "godlessness is ruining this country," but say "happy holidays" to them once and they go ballistic. I'm not saying this is true of all or even most Christians, but there are a lot of them who literally try to force religion down everyone else's throats at every opportunity, and it's really not fun being on the other end of it.

@theone86 said: And I won't even get into all the political crap, except to say that Christians have no idea what it's like to be treated with suspicion and have your character called into question the way atheists and other religious minorities do.

You're right, they've had it worse.

I don't think it's right to make the claim religious people have "had it worse." More people have been religious through history (numerically). However, many atheists have been murdered/tortured for not believing in a deity. Let's just say lot's of people all over the world and through time have suffered by the "other's" hands. I myself have been let go from jobs (2 times) because I'm not LDS (live in Utah). I've dealt with a small dating pool (happily married for a long time now though) and discrimination left and right.

I'd say overall, Christians in this nation (USA) suffer less discrimination than atheists. We can't even get an atheist into government (google atheists and voter's perceptions of atheists) yet we are a quarter of the population, and growing.

Well like I said I am Christian and proud of it. I find science fascinating but I don't think it disproves God nor do I think it ever will in the way atheist think it does. I know there apples in every group as there are horrible people that call themselves Christian and there are horrible people that say they are atheist. Just the interactions I have had with atheist haven't been the greatest. Granted, I have meet some cool ones who don't question anyone's intelligence for believing in God or being apart of a religion but the arrogant/ douchebag ones (like the ones that prowl the internet) are the ones I take issue with. They go on about how religion is evil and everyone that beliefs in the bible and/or God is an idiot. But then they turn around and talk about how Christians should be tolerant of them, LGBT, abortion, drug use and all that other stuff that say is normal or progressive. I am a firm believer that respect and tolerance is a TWO WAY street. Don't go around saying "oh you believe in fairy tales" and mock my faith then tell me I need to accept you how you choose to live. Internet atheist seem to be unaware of their hypocrisy when they go on their anti Christian, anti religion rants.

By the way, a lot of them ignore the GOOD churches do in their communities and around the world. For example, my church actually sends people to Africa and other nations to help build shelters and provide food and clean water. They also help people right in their communities such as the homeless and such. Atheist talk about caring about people and such but few do anything on the scale churches do which I also find hypocritical.

You don't seem to understand what atheists actually think. The scientific method doesn't "disprove" a claim of a God, it just can't find evidence of one. And most, if not all atheists would gladly believe in a God if the evidence came along to prove one exists. See, that's the difference between a scientist and a religionist. The scientist will actually change their views/beliefs if given a reason to.

Spot on.

First I highly doubt atheist would change their beliefs even if they are blantent signs of God. Like most people who get stuck in their beliefs they would just come up with reasons to dismiss those signs and go back to their regular life.

Like I said, I have a strong appreciation for science and all the advances it has brought us. But I believe what we learn through science is just us slowly learning how God created the universe around us. Also it’s hard for me to believe the idea that the universe was created randomly by a cosmic accident. And it just so happened it resulted in humans and animals. It just so happens that the earth is a suitable environment for us. Then I look at how the human body is designed and functions. It’s hard to believe that just happened because it did. I think the Big Bang was intentionally done by God.

Then I get down to personal experiences and stories I have heard from other Christian. I heard reports from people in my church being completely cured of cancer after being prayed for in church. This coming after numerous doctors saying nothing could be done and they should just prepare to die in a few weeks.

I heard reports ( which were confirmed by others) if a woman also being cured of full blown HIV/ AIDS. By also being prayed for in church. I have a few other personal experiences and stories like from over the years as a Christian. Atheist just blow it off as blind luck or something science and doctors will explain eventually but it’s been 10 years or more for a lot of those stories and there is still no logical or scientific explanation for those events other than God or if you want, you can claim the luck route ( but I don’t think it’s that).

Second, a lot of atheist “ think” they know all about Christianity and God because they may have read a few scriptures of the Bible or looked at horrible people who claimed to be Christian and made the assumption that all Christians are like those bad apples. Being a Christian is far more than reading and owing a Bible and going to church. It’s about living a life that reflects that values of Christ as well and having a real connection/ relationship to God ( you can laugh or mock here but it’s the truth).

You are just projecting your own view onto us. Like Ken Ham admitten during the debate with Bill Nye: "no one is ever going to convince me that the word of god is not true". Ask any atheist and they will say that they do not believe in any gods because there is no evidence of their existance instead of that there is evidence of their non-existance and the moment they would get said evidence they would start believing.

Key words " hard to believe". Reality does not care what you believe and how hard it is for you.

The Earth does not just happen to be suitable for us, we evolved on this planet because it is, not the other way around (like you imagine it). Stop thinking in the timeframe of your own existance and just try to actually see how long billions of years is for natural selection to do its thing.

Anecdotal evidence and not even first hand at that. Pathetic.

Would not expect anything more than that from a religious person, though. And yet you claim to appreciate science.

The vast majority of atheist used to be religious themselves. If, by any chance, you will stop believing one day, will that mean that you never "knew" anything about christianity and god in the first place? I can guarantee that you religious buddies will say that about you, just like you do now about us.

As for "living a life that reflects that values of Christ", does that mean that every single Republican is not a real christian?

@iron_legion87: You just tried to spread misinformation about cures to cancer, so I don't need to assume you're a bad person, I know you are.

How am I a bad person? I clearly said those were my personal thoughts and I believe there was divine intervention in those situations. You all can say it was luck or whatever that is fine. But I did research and there is no scientific explanation currently. I am not taking anything away from doctors or even scientist here, but again I believe God had something to do with those people being cured of cancer. If that makes me a "bad person" for believing that and not just saying it's luck or scientist will provide an answer eventually then so be it. You also prove my original point. Atheist want to play the "victim card" when they encounter someone with different beliefs than them.

@iron_legion87: people have died listening to the crap you said. So yes in my eyes you and all other promoters of faith healing are bad people.

@toast_burner I am NOT telling anyone to not seek medical attention for cancer or any other illness or injury. Again I was sharing some personal stories I hear that have been confirmed by people I know. I believe God does intervene in certain situations. Tell me what would be your explanation for a some who was told by numerous doctors that they should just prepare for death and then one day, they attend church and have experience with what they believe to be God and like a week later that "incurable" cancer is gone and hasn't reemerged in over 10 + years. Is is so absurd and "offensive" to believe that maybe just MAYBE a higher power is a play there especially when there is currently no medical or scientific explanation then or now? If you offended and call people bad for that, then it's not me that has the problem it's YOU.

@iron_legion87: and those bullshit stories leads people into avoiding medication because they think it shows doubt of god's healing powers which you claim he has and uses.

I don't care what your intent is, what you're doing is evil.

@toast_burner think what you want because you are clearly on your own agenda and not really listening to what I said. Because someone you have twisted what I said to some agenda where I am encouraging people to not use common sense and seek medical attention for serious health issues. No where in my previous posts did I even imply that people shouldn't seek medical attention. My point was that science sometimes does have all the answers and maybe there is a greater power involved in certain instances. Also, no pastor or other Christian and religious person I know has ever told anyone not to seek medical attention for health issues. We believe God gave us this thing called common sense and we are thankful for medical staff. You do know some doctors and medical staff hold religious beliefs right? Not all are atheist. But we also believe that God can perform miracles from time to time. Also, just from this interaction, I assume you are a intolerant evil person that likes to vilify people with different beliefs that you. I would expect nothing less from a "tolerant" up standing citizen/ progressive atheist such as yourself.

Legion...you are getting whooped, intellectually. Just give in man. You are making logical mistakes (not a sleight...I'm talking about formal logic here) all over the place.

A) What you believe doesn't matter

B) Most of your' arguments aren't sound

For example...it's YOUR job to support claims about your' God. It's not other's job to "disprove" your claim. If I said there is an invisible Unicorn God behind me as I type this, and I really, really believe it, and you can't disprove it, does that mean it must exist? Of course not. See? This is why you have to support claims. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. As pointed out before, anecdotal evidence is not evidence. If a disease kills 9,999 people out of 10,000 and 50,000 people have that disease, we can expect 5 "miracles." This isn't evidence of miracles...it's evidence in support of the study of statistics.

Anyways...relax a bit, read an intro text to philosophy wherein you'll learn formal logic, and you'll see where your' arguments are falling apart. I say this not in criticism of you, nor to offend you. I just think you are a bright guy with more potential, but you don't have the experience to see logic down.

Why don't you believe in Zeus, Krishna, etc, etc? When you "get" why you don't believe in all the other deities, you'll understand why we dismiss your's.

@demi0227_basic:

My point of providing those instances is to point of that not matter how great science is, it doesn’t have the answers to everything. There are occurrences in life where there is no logical/ scientific explanation ( such as the examples I mentioned). Not to take anything way from medical professionals or even scientists, but I don’t think it’s absurd for someone to think “hey maybe there is a higher power”. There was no Neal Degrasse Tyson or Bill Bye around to document how exactly the universe was created. In fact, no human being was. How do we know for a FACT the universe was created they way we think it did ( Big Bang etc)? Also, there is no scientific evidence that supports that God, heaven or hell don’t exist. Really all we have are educated guesses with some facts here or there but still nothing that is 110% factual about a higher deity or afterlife. One thing is certain is that once death comes for us, we will find out if our beliefs were correct or not.

Trying to shift the discussion a bit here. If someone came up with proof God exists:

Atheists: Would you all of a sudden follow said god now that you know it exists?

Religious people: Imagine that the real god is not the one you've been following. Would you follow this new god or would you still believe in your old one?

I follow you always XD

On Topic, all gods are same to me.New or Old or from different religion or from my own religion.Have faith in every of em :)

@indzman: So to you the important part is to believe in a higher power, without getting caught up in details?

Yup.All gods are same to me. But being intolerant, harming others in name of religion i don't tolerate even in name of any religion, including mine :)

Honestly man...I don't have the time to educate you about these things. The answers to the questions you are asking (about how we know the Big Bang happened and such) takes THOUSANDS of pages of reading, along with YEARS of your life dedicated to understanding physics. I can't do it in a video game forum.

However...if there IS one thing I can help you get better at, it's this; Science isn't the answer for anything. It's METHOD. It's hard to get the truth about anything. Our minds alone are horrible at attaining real, accurate knowledge. Science is the METHOD we use to go through and test ideas, dismiss biases, and get rid of the garbage (in this particular case, Religions). What's left over, is the truth.

What I am trying to say is that, if I'm understanding where you are coming from (and I think I do get it...I've discussed this topic with literally hundreds of people irl, and more over the internet) correctly, is that you have a misunderstanding of exactly WHAT science is. It's not the answers to things...it's the method in which we can actually learn. I hope that's helpful.

Also...I am pretty sure my last point didn't sink in. It's not science's job to disprove untestable claims. No...science can't disprove any deity. However, we can use natural history (geology), psychology, and texts from the ancients, to understand how/why these books (it's a general claim, so the Bible is just another set of texts but this applies to all equally) were written. And looking through other academic pursuits, the only logical conclusion is this: It's likely ancient people, who didn't have much knowledge, created/and/or passed on stories about the nature of the universe.

So...science can't disprove a christian god, nor any Abrahamic God, nor any other polytheistic gods, nor any other monotheistic ones. However, what science CAN tell us, is that there's NO GOOD REASON for anybody to believe the texts of those books as it pertains to a deity, nor the nature of the universe. There are many good reasons to think men made up stories to give their lives purpose. There are social benefits that explain the spread of this misinformation. Sociology of religion is a fascinating subject if you ever want to read up on it.

Anyways...gotta give the wife some d. I'll help you out next time.

You don't know (m)any atheists.

You're right, if a God is proven to exist scientifically, secular atheists wouldn't believe in it... they would accept it as truth/fact. Belief/faith wouldn't be needed anymore because it would be like accepting the existence of evolution or gravity.

If the "God" shown to exist is that of the Abrahamic variety, I would fully accept it's existence, but would actively forego worship. Why?

To quote Richard Dawkins: "The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully." - "The God Delusion"

I could never worship a God that demands such things like the God of the Bible/Qur'an does. A being that threatens eternal punishment for finite mistakes is not omnibenevolent.