Holy Cow! IGN NVC rips Nintendo!

This was horrible, why did they make a Nintendo podcast starring two IGN PS3 trolls ?

And at whom was this aimed ? All the subscribers of NVC that love to hear how incompetent fools are insulting you and your purchase ? wtf

To Uncharted 2's defense, it is an amazing game that somehow melds so many previously established ideas and polishes them. Its narrative is unrivaled. I mean which games compete with it? Not many. It lacks originality, but the game deserves high praise.thedude-

Congratulations. You missed the point.

@clicketyclick:

Props to you for taking the time to break the entire podcast up (yep, I read the whole thing). Honestly, I really had no interest in listening to it (I've never listened to any of IGN's podcasts and don't really care for podcasts in general), but I did want to give you credit for at least putting effort into clarifing some things.

Honestly, I really don't see what the big deal has been with IGN and Nintendo fans of late. Between this, the achievements article, and the now infamous "Nintendo is Lazy and You Don't Care" article, there has been a lot of arguing going on in regards to how the IGN staff feels about Nintendo in general. Personally, I can't really say I care too much; much like any other human, those guys will share an opinion every now and then, and the only thing I can do about it is agree or disagree and move on. Regardless whether or not they feel Nintendo is cutting corners or giving gamers the short end of the stick, that's their call, and I can't be bothered too much in making a fuss about it at the moment. Afterall, it's not like what they say has had or will have a factor with how much I'm enjoying my investments into Nintendo's recent systems, so I'm having trouble being emotional about it all, quite honestly.

I feel as though the recent comments by IGN have provided both valid points and a significant amount of subjectivity. Outside of that, I don't wish to break it all down any further, as it really means nothing to me in the end. I'll continue to buy and enjoy games from Nintendo and every other publisher/developer as I've always have, and if I think a certain product is lacking something, chances are I won't be as quick to picking it up. I don't need either IGN or angry Nintendo fans to encourage me into how I should feel about a game, a system, or a company's work. I think my gaming experience and intuition is sufficient enough for me to develop my own assessments. :P

[QUOTE="thedude-"]To Uncharted 2's defense, it is an amazing game that somehow melds so many previously established ideas and polishes them. Its narrative is unrivaled. I mean which games compete with it? Not many. It lacks originality, but the game deserves high praise.LordQuorthon

Congratulations. You missed the point.

Explain?

Because I was not talking about the "point" there. It was just a comment on how well done Uncharted 2 was.

Also just because GoNintendo reposts other people's work does not mean they do not have some responsibility. Maybe GoNintendo, like the rest of you that jumped on the immediate hate train, should have listened to the podcast. Now the site, IGN, you hate so much is getting HUGE traffic from all sorts of gamers.

IGN has lots of big fans and lots of big haters. They will make articles that are controversial and anger some crowds, but they also point out (esp. the Nintendo Team) things about Nintendo no one else in the industry recognizes for another 6 months. IGN was calling out the Wii right from the begining when there were way too many PSP and PS2 ports comining out. IGN will always call Nintendo out, their Nintendo team has its quirks, but they are not biased towards Nintendo. You can always rest assured they will give a critical outlook to everything.

I find it ironic that the same hardcore gamers that moved away from Nintendo consoles during the N64 and GC days are now complaining that Nintendo doesn't cater to their needs anymore. The Wii certainly deserves criticism, but so does every console. But, a lot of what they say is pretty much playground, fanboy arguments. Pretty sure they're just looking for hits.

The saddest part for me is their insistence that games have to have massive, Hollywood-like production values for them to worthy of anything. They sound like they started playing games in the PS2/XBox/GC generation.

I find it ironic that the same hardcore gamers that moved away from Nintendo consoles during the N64 and GC days are now complaining that Nintendo doesn't cater to their needs anymore. The Wii certainly deserves criticism, but so does every console. But, a lot of what they say is pretty much playground, fanboy arguments. Pretty sure they're just looking for hits.

The saddest part for me is their insistence that games have to have massive, Hollywood-like production values for them to worthy of anything. They sound like they started playing games in the PS2/XBox/GC generation.

Explain?

Because I was not talking about the "point" there. It was just a comment on how well done Uncharted 2 was.thedude-

And who was saying the opposite? I haven't played. I bet it's great. Still, New Super Mario is outselling it and a bunch of game journalists are going crazy. It's not just IGN. Some guys from the Gametrailers podcast have been having an on going meltdown since late November.

Also just because GoNintendo reposts other people's work does not mean they do not have some responsibility. Maybe GoNintendo, like the rest of you that jumped on the immediate hate train, should have listened to the podcast. Now the site, IGN, you hate so much is getting HUGE traffic from all sorts of gamers.

IGN has lots of big fans and lots of big haters. They will make articles that are controversial and anger some crowds, but they also point out (esp. the Nintendo Team) things about Nintendo no one else in the industry recognizes for another 6 months. IGN was calling out the Wii right from the begining when there were way too many PSP and PS2 ports comining out. IGN will always call Nintendo out, their Nintendo team has its quirks, but they are not biased towards Nintendo. You can always rest assured they will give a critical outlook to everything.

thedude-

Again, it's not IGN. It's game journalism as a whole. In fact, it's the industry.

You know how some people (hey, Darth Psychosis!) think third parties will automatically release all their games on Nintendo's next home console if it has HD and tons of megahertz and gigabytes? Well, after New Super Mario Bros. Wii, you can discard that possibility for at least a decade and a half or something. The industry as a whole is incredibly pissed at the idea of a 2D arcade game outselling their precious 30 million-dollar-budget games. Again, nothing against those games. It's just how they are reacting.

[QUOTE="umcommon"] Fact is Nintendo has been lazy for the past year and a half or so. The good game drought was humiliating for both Nintendo and Wii owners.bob_newman

Ok let's get something straight. Nintendo is currently working all of their development teams.

Nintendo released almost all of their first batch of content within the first 2 years of the Wii's life. It takes more than 2 years for Nintendo to make a "AAA" game. Therefore, it means that all of the 2nd batch of games won't come out until some time next year.

Yes, they should have spaced out the releases better, but they didn't and now we have to wait.

But to say that they've "been lazy for the past year and a half" is ludicrous. They just haven't had the resources to release more "AAA" games in between the waves.

Nintendo NEEDS to stop holding back, dig in their pockets and develop more big games. uncommon

All of the ones they currently own are working already...

You act as if Nintendo's paying their employees to just sit there and do nothing. As if that's the best strategy for them. In a struggling climate, that is the dumbest thing a company could do. Nintendo's not that stupid dude.

Basically what I'm saying is Nintendo needs to expand their developement teams so they are able to do more, not space out their releases, if Sony is able to release killer hit after killer hit in the same year consistantly why non Nintendo?! Heck Nintendo could even ask a third party dev to make a Starfox or Donkey Kong game, or if Silicon Knights still exists Nintendo could renew thier contract for an Eternal Darkness 2... I don't get why people are blindly deffending Nintendo's lazyness, the only way Nintendo will fix that is if people speak out and let them know whats up. IGN is one of the biggest Nintendo fanboy sites out there, an article like this coming from them says a lot.

I don't get why people are blindly deffending Nintendo's lazynessumcommon

Nintendo will completely dismiss accusations of laziness because it simply isn't true. You don't get the success of Nintendo by being lazy. If you want to criticize Nintendo, do it for REAL reasons, not just spouting out exaggerations. That doesn't make any difference. For IGN (Matt specifically) to go that route is just crazy, in my opinion, and shows that they're just getting desperate. There are real reasons to be critical of Nintendo.... Let's see those. "I wanted something other than a yellow Toad" isn't gonna cut it, especially when that was an INTENTIONAL design choice that's consistent with the way Miyamoto has ALWAYS approached game design.

People need to remember that Nintendo's being "lazy" for our sake.

If they actually made New Super Mario Bros Wii have sprite graphics and not just take whatever they used for NSMB's graphics and improve them, then the time would take longer, and they wouldn't be able to release the game by Q4 2009, and if they didn't, people would compain that Nintendo doesn't release any games.

Same with Galaxy 2 and Spirit Tracks, because the engine for Galaxy and Phantom Hourglass graphics are there, they can make quick sequels to them in a faster development time then if they changed the graphics a lot, and therefore, get more games out for us gamers.

It's a double edged sword, you want Nintendo to not be lazy then you'll be playing less games on the Wii, personally I prefer 2 AA games to 1 AAA game, but that's just me.

[QUOTE="umcommon"]I don't get why people are blindly deffending Nintendo's lazynessJordanElek

Nintendo will completely dismiss accusations of laziness because it simply isn't true. You don't get the success of Nintendo by being lazy. If you want to criticize Nintendo, do it for REAL reasons, not just spouting out exaggerations. That doesn't make any difference. For IGN (Matt specifically) to go that route is just crazy, in my opinion, and shows that they're just getting desperate. There are real reasons to be critical of Nintendo.... Let's see those. "I wanted something other than a yellow Toad" isn't gonna cut it, especially when that was an INTENTIONAL design choice that's consistent with the way Miyamoto has ALWAYS approached game design.

Of course Nintendo will dismiss accusations of being lazy, any smart PR department would never admit to that. I'm not saying people at Nintendo are just sitting around twiddling their fingers but rather not employing large enough teams to produce quality games at a consistent pace.umcommon

And I don't mean that Nintendo will come out and publicly announce that they're not lazy. Developers respond to criticism via their games. It doesn't really matter what they say out loud (HIGH VOLTAGE), but rather what they produce. Nintendo could take REAL criticism and apply it to future games. That would be constructive criticism. But what do they do with accusations of laziness besides think of the 70 hour weeks they worked and all the babies that were born during that time?

For the second part of what you mean by laziness (which isn't laziness at all), Nintendo is still one company. And they have a consistent track record of taking FOREVER to develop games. This is nothing new. I would like to see some outsourcing, like they're doing with Metroid and Team Ninja, and maybe we will still see that. But to expect more out of one company than we're seeing now is.. not really worth complaining about.

But Matt did make some very valid points regarding Animal Crossing CF and Wii music, both games suffered from poor presentation and production values for Nintendo standards and it showed with generic graphics, and other cut corners, I would go into greater detail but I have a final in a few minutes. Bottom line is this sentiment is shared with many people not just IGN, I as well as countless other people on the forum have been saying this for a while now. Nintendo is cutting corners big time whether or not people want to admit to it.umcommon

The real problem is with third parties, not Nintendo, so I don't know why so many people are angry at Nintendo.

And good luck with your final. :)

To be honest the Podcast itselfisn't nearly as bad as the summary here led me to believe.

Still, not that I agreed with much of what they said.

i think he Hd visuals argument is subjective. I own all three current gen consoles and yes Wii visuals are very..."weak" in comparison to the otehr two but I still enjoy playing it becuase it's fun and a change of pace. Dont get me wrong I love "Teh, NiiCe ShYniE GRaFiXXx!!!1!" just like the next person(1080p gaming is the culprit for me here...) and I'd be lying if I didn't want Nintendo to get on the ball with HD gaming already, but I don't think that's the main issue at hand. I think they should work on online capabilities more and just totally shelf those shovelware/mini-game crap-fests out there. Offer more titles to support voice-chat(implement a headset...like wireless- bluetooth- through-usb-found-on-back-of-system-thingie...I dont know oh and wii-speak if that's the only option), and drop friend-codes already they are annoying and cumbersome(espcially since you need different ones for every game...lame and sooo PS2 2003 online).

I really hope Nintendo isn't just relying on there "casual-audience theme" and use of Mascots(Mario, Link, Samus, Etc...) in their games to bolster sales, cause with that mentality they won't budge on any issues we may have with their current business decisions.

The real problem is with third parties, not Nintendo, so I don't know why so many people are angry at Nintendo.

JordanElek

I have more sympathy towards third parties because nobody supports them. You make a great game like Extraction. It sold squat. People laugh and say "You deserved it for being lazy!" You look at how much Wii Music and Animal Crossing sell. You see the irony. You cry.

I do like how Nintendo is reaching out to third party developers to co-develop their games. They should do this more. This should get third parties to embrace the Wii more. The continued success of the Wii depends on it. As it stands now, if I'm a third party developer, I'm no longer touching the Wii.

Which raises the question I have been asking for a while.

Why do people in here hold IGN's Wii reviews above GS's again?

I've always found GS's reviews much more straight forawrd and reliable where as IGN's always tend to scream fanboyism which results in the game either getting waaay to high of a score (conduit anyone?) or to low of a score (wii music) due to fanboy issues, usually from Matt Casablanchevichze.

[QUOTE="Craig"]"What is the point of complaining?" says an email. "Because we got tons of comments and tons of traffic," answers Harris.JordanElek

I agree completely, could they really be so starved for traffic that they would do something so stupid. I would expect a child to do something like that, misbehave to get attention.

@canadianloonie

Its very simple, people did not want a Dead Space rail shooter. Now I'm no business expert, but I think the way to make money is to give people what they want not what they don't want. They tried to do it the easy way, probably not Visceral, the order likely came down from EA to do it as a rail shooter to cut cost. Well it did and at the same time it cut revenue. I agree with JordanNintendo's first party titles most often are head and shoulders superior to competitors, what they are missing is the 3rd party because the 3rd party has one an identity crisis and two the refuse to take on Nintendo titles.

[QUOTE="JordanElek"]

The real problem is with third parties, not Nintendo, so I don't know why so many people are angry at Nintendo.

canadianloonie

I have more sympathy towards third parties because nobody supports them. You make a great game like Extraction. It sold squat. People laugh and say "You deserved it for being lazy!" You look at how much Wii Music and Animal Crossing sell. You see the irony. You cry.

I do like how Nintendo is reaching out to third party developers to co-develop their games. They should do this more. This should get third parties to embrace the Wii more. The continued success of the Wii depends on it. As it stands now, if I'm a third party developer, I'm no longer touching the Wii.

Nintendo can't be blamed for third-party failure to adapt to the Wii market. The Wii market is dominated by the pop culture masses. To them, the Wii IS party and fitness, then there are also some big names (like Star Wars) that they already know about and associate with quality. That's what has proven to sell on the Wii, in terms of third-party software. Not all developers are equipped to make those types of games, nor do they all want to.

So what they need to do is get creative. How can you make a game that appeals to the people who want party games or fitness games or licensed games but that also is accepted by the gaming community as quality software?

If that question were easy to answer, we'd already be seeing tons of games that address it. But I point to Epic Mickey as a possible answer. It has the big name that the pop culture masses already associate with quality, and it's being developed ground up for the Wii. You can't turn anywhere else to get this game. The Wii version will be the definitive version. We'll see how well it sells.

Actually all markets are dominated by the pop culture masses. Its a grand misconception that the HD consoles audiences are these teeth grinding, badass, hardcore, live and breath gaming, gamers. Because thier not; in reality the bulk of the gaming audience as a whole, is just a bunch of mainstream gamers. All those mothers and stuff that people like to call casual gamers are just more mainstream gamers. Its just that they grew up with things like Pacman, Centipede and Donkey Kong. While these newer mainstream gamers grew up with things like GTA and MGS, playing those things doesn't make you a hardcore gamer, anybody who wanted to could play those things. Gaming as whole across all platforms, became mainstream a long time ago.

So the same type of gamers that you find on the HD consoles, those mainstream gamers are among the Wii audience. Do those who were playing Pacman in the arcade when it was new want to play Assassins Creed? Probably not. But there are also alot of those mainstream gamers that we like call hardcore gamers in the Wii audience who would. Its not rocket science, you tap the audience the Wii the same way you tap the same exact audience on the other consoles. Competitive software is the answer, whether your trying to compete with Wii Sports or your trying to compete with Zelda. If your software pales in comparison to the competition it will pale in sales. Thats why they struggle, even the good games like Madworld cant not stand against Nintendo titles. What can Nintendo to help 3rd parties? make it easy for them by decreasing the quality of thier titles? Of course not, its very simple if I'm seliing a box for 10 bucks and someone else is selling another box for 10 bucks, but thiers is full of candy and prizes etc. which would you buy?

Actually all markets are dominated by the pop culture masses. Its a grand misconception that the HD consoles audiences are these teeth grinding, badass, hardcore, live and breath gaming, gamers. Sepewrath

My point is that third parties haven't adapted to THAT image of the Wii, the one that's based on what actually sells, and it's hard for them to do because it's so different from the traditional image of a console.

Edit: "Licensed" isn't the best word for it.... I'm just talking about names that everyone (gamer or not) can recognize.

Which raises the question I have been asking for a while.

Why do people in here hold IGN's Wii reviews above GS's again?

kenakuma

It's usually because Gamestop was understaffed (namely in 2008) and choose to review games that would keep viewers at their website over games that they did in the past.

We still don't see many reviews for downloadable Wii games, including Nintendo's own efforts. In other cases, Dokapon Kingdom included, IGN's review isn't far off from the truth but the scores are different from the written text review.

But mostly it's the only game in town for a review. 1up is close behind.

I have to admit, it is true. The lack of achievements, HD and inferior online capabilities really makes me believe that Nintendo is lazy.

[QUOTE="kenakuma"]

Which raises the question I have been asking for a while.

Why do people in here hold IGN's Wii reviews above GS's again?

SirSpudly

It's usually because Gamestop was understaffed (namely in 2008) and choose to review games that would keep viewers at their website over games that they did in the past.

We still don't see many reviews for downloadable Wii games, including Nintendo's own efforts. In other cases, Dokapon Kingdom included, IGN's review isn't far off from the truth but the scores are different from the written text review.

But mostly it's the only game in town for a review. 1up is close behind.

I guess I can understand that you would go to IGN over GS if GS dosen't even have a review for that game in the first place (ya, they definetly skip alot of games).

I would also probably go to IGN if GS didn't have a review but if they do than I'll usually go with GS 90% of the time!

[QUOTE="Sepewrath"]Actually all markets are dominated by the pop culture masses. Its a grand misconception that the HD consoles audiences are these teeth grinding, badass, hardcore, live and breath gaming, gamers. JordanElek

My point is that third parties haven't adapted to THAT image of the Wii, the one that's based on what actually sells, and it's hard for them to do because it's so different from the traditional image of a console.

Edit: "Licensed" isn't the best word for it.... I'm just talking about names that everyone (gamer or not) can recognize.

Fair enough, but those types of games don't sell either. Take EA Active, it sold well because from what I understand it is high quality exercise software, as oppossed to the dozens of other cheap ones. Wii Sports Resorts is a high quality party title as oppossed to the cheap knock offs. No matter what kind of pop culture image the console has, if you have a half ass effort you wont reap any awards. Like I said in the other post, whether thier taking on Zelda or Wii Sports, if the software doesn't stand up to the competition it wont find success. They seem reluctant to make any headway in that regard, they attempt to toe the line and say "well our product is like the one, that sales" just not as good. Sepewrath

I love how you have generalized Ninty fans clickety:|gamefan67

This was horrible, why did they make a Nintendo podcast starring two IGN PS3 trolls ?

And at whom was this aimed ? All the subscribers of NVC that love to hear how incompetent fools are insulting you and your purchase ? wtf

MangaPicture

Because it's not laziness! People are getting riled up for the wrong reasons, responding to a strawman. Nintendo is making decisions for INTENTIONAL reasons, not because they just don't want to do more, but because they have a business strategy that has been working for years. It has nothing to do with people sitting around, not doing work they should be doing ... If you want to criticize Nintendo, do it for REAL reasons, not just spouting out exaggerations. That doesn't make any difference. For IGN (Matt specifically) to go that route is just crazy, in my opinion, and shows that they're just getting desperate. JordanElek

Actually, that's exactly what they were talking about on the podcast. Ninty doing the same thing repeatedly and recycling it because it has been working for years instead of doing innovation to the extent that we know they're capable of. That's what they called lazy. No-one said anyone was sitting around doing nothing. THAT'S the strawman.clicketyclick

This was horrible, why did they make a Nintendo podcast starring two IGN PS3 trolls ?

And at whom was this aimed ? All the subscribers of NVC that love to hear how incompetent fools are insulting you and your purchase ? wtf

[QUOTE="clicketyclick"]Actually, that's exactly what they were talking about on the podcast. Ninty doing the same thing repeatedly and recycling it because it has been working for years instead of doing innovation to the extent that we know they're capable of. That's what they called lazy. No-one said anyone was sitting around doing nothing. THAT'S the strawman.JordanElek

C'mon, you have to admit the excuse Miyamoto gave for putting in a Toad instead of Wario is pretty lame. He said then people might expect Wario to fart and they'd have to figure out how to make him do that in the game, so they decided against including Wario because of the issue of farting. I mean, seriously? Does that sound reasonable to you? Or does it sound a little bit like an... excuse.clicketyclick

[QUOTE="MangaPicture"]

This was horrible, why did they make a Nintendo podcast starring two IGN PS3 trolls ?

And at whom was this aimed ? All the subscribers of NVC that love to hear how incompetent fools are insulting you and your purchase ? wtf

thedude-

In the podcast, they tell me that I'm brainwashed, if I'd think the Wii is a good console, they are bashing games like Fragile for no reason, etc. That isn't objective critique anymore.

[QUOTE="thedude-"][QUOTE="MangaPicture"]

This was horrible, why did they make a Nintendo podcast starring two IGN PS3 trolls ?

And at whom was this aimed ? All the subscribers of NVC that love to hear how incompetent fools are insulting you and your purchase ? wtf

MangaPicture

In the podcast, they tell me that I'm brainwashed, if I'd think the Wii is a good console, they are bashing games like Fragile for no reason, etc. That isn't objective critique anymore.

It is very appearant that most of what has been said in the summary was distorted to the point that the person who wrote it should apologize to IGN and rewrite his little summary.

You need to read my posts in this thread. I laid out three arguments against Matt's complaining. The first one addressed the whole Toad thing. The second one tackles Wii Music, and the third is about the Wii's hardware.JordanElek

Ok but Matt ≠ Craig, Daemon, Greg, or Jack. I don't think it's fair to take one IGNer's arguments and argue against those and think it applies to everyone else. Unless there is some relevant point you made countering Matt's points that also applies to this stuff about Wario farting.

And note that everyone on the podcast agreed that Wii Music was NOT a lazy effort.

In the podcast, they tell me that I'm brainwashed, if I'd think the Wii is a good console, they are bashing games like Fragile for no reason, etc. That isn't objective critique anymore.MangaPicture

They didn't say you were brainwashed. Don't go off this summary. They said that A LOT of the LETTERS THEY RECEIVED seemed to be written from the perspective that Nintendo can do no wrong. They were specifically talking about a portion of the letter writers. Did you write a letter to them? No. Do you count in this criticism? No.

[QUOTE="JordanElek"]You need to read my posts in this thread. I laid out three arguments against Matt's complaining. The first one addressed the whole Toad thing. The second one tackles Wii Music, and the third is about the Wii's hardware.clicketyclick

Ok but Matt ≠ Craig, Daemon, Greg, or Jack. I don't think it's fair to take one IGNer's arguments and argue against those and think it applies to everyone else. Unless there is some relevant point you made countering Matt's points that also applies to this stuff about Wario farting.

Yeah I know, but it's essentially the same argument, and my counterpoint applies to the Wario thing as well. What Matt (and these guys I guess) are calling laziness isn't laziness. It was a conscious design decision beyond just "it's easier" or "Wario farts." Read my post in the other thread. It has research!

[QUOTE="clicketyclick"]

[QUOTE="JordanElek"]You need to read my posts in this thread. I laid out three arguments against Matt's complaining. The first one addressed the whole Toad thing. The second one tackles Wii Music, and the third is about the Wii's hardware.JordanElek

Ok but Matt ≠ Craig, Daemon, Greg, or Jack. I don't think it's fair to take one IGNer's arguments and argue against those and think it applies to everyone else. Unless there is some relevant point you made countering Matt's points that also applies to this stuff about Wario farting.

Yeah I know, but it's essentially the same argument, and my counterpoint applies to the Wario thing as well. What Matt (and these guys I guess) are calling laziness isn't laziness. It was a conscious design decision beyond just "it's easier" or "Wario farts." Read my post in the other thread. It has research!

Ok but while I'm reading I'm just going to say (a) I edited my post above to add that everyone in the podcast agreed with you that Wii Music is NOT lazy and (b) this sounds to me like semantics. Whatever you want to call it, they have a problem with Ninty's conscious design decisions and think they could make better ones.clicketyclick

It's not just semantics.... It's the whole premise of Nintendo doing things simply because they don't want to put forth the extra effort to make it .. however the IGN people want them to make it. Millions of people have bought and enjoyed almost all of Nintendo's games, and when not as many people buy, it's usually because of something Nintendo hasn't been up to standard with (Wii Music and NPC games). The only real exception is Animal Crossing, but you know more about that than I do.

I cannot see how Wii Music and Animal Crossing Wii are not lazy. One game is a partial concept, the other game is almost a complete rehash.

It's not just semantics.... It's the whole premise of Nintendo doing things simply because they don't want to put forth the extra effort to make it .. however the IGN people want them to make it. Millions of people have bought and enjoyed almost all of Nintendo's games, and when not as many people buy, it's usually because of something Nintendo hasn't been up to standard with (Wii Music and NPC games). The only real exception is Animal Crossing, but you know more about that than I do.

JordanElek

I cannot see how Wii Music and Animal Crossing Wii are not lazy. One game is a partial concept, the other game is almost a complete rehash.

thedude-

Agree Wii Musc is lazy & so is Animal Crossing Wii..so are many of the WiiPlay games. Why not make a new tennis game?...nope just use the GC one & tacked on wii mote control. If that's not lazy then I dunno what is.

Hey 3rd party get bash for doing rehash ...why is Nintendo being spared?

Cheers Clicketyclick for the real podcast..

People don't accept from other franchises what Ninty is still doing with their franchises. They accept it from Ninty, and so it doesn't affect Ninty's sales like you pointed out, so Ninty has no motivation to improve on the status quo! But improving on the status quo WOULD improve their games, like I think SPM or Zelda would be improved by voice acting.clicketyclick

It's all complaining about nothing, as far as I'm concerned. The things they've found to complain about are pretty low on the importance scale for pretty much everyone, AND in some cases the complaints don't even match reality. Wii Music would've sold much more if it had been executed better, and the NPC games would've sold better if they had been, well, NEW. These were bad decisions on Nintendo's part, and we DO care as evidenced by the fact that we don't buy them in droves like the other Nintendo games.

[QUOTE="thedude-"]

I cannot see how Wii Music and Animal Crossing Wii are not lazy. One game is a partial concept, the other game is almost a complete rehash.

Agree Wii Musc is lazy & so is Animal Crossing Wii..so are many of the WiiPlay games. Why not make a new tennis game?...nope just use the GC one & tacked on wii mote control. If that's not lazy then I dunno what is.

Hey 3rd party get bash for doing rehash ...why is Nintendo being spared?

Cheers Clicketyclick for the real podcast..

Wii Music would've sold much more if it had been executed better, and the NPC games would've sold better if they had been, well, NEW. These were bad decisions on Nintendo's part, and we DO care as evidenced by the fact that we don't buy them in droves like the other Nintendo games.JordanElek

[QUOTE="JordanElek"]Wii Music would've sold much more if it had been executed better, and the NPC games would've sold better if they had been, well, NEW. These were bad decisions on Nintendo's part, and we DO care as evidenced by the fact that we don't buy them in droves like the other Nintendo games.clicketyclick

Nintendo doesn't need to stop being lazy. Calling out Nintendo for that won't get anybody anywhere. It's like calling you out for not using proper grammar. As I've explained before, Nintendo will just see those complaints and say "WHAT???"

I think the main lesson Nintendo should learn is that we don't want NPC games (well, I want Pikmin 2, only for cheap, but that's because I never played the original). And look at what they're giving us. We got Punch Out after more than a decade, we got the final Prime game, we got two amazing Mario games and a third on the way, we got another Mario Kart and Smash Bros., we're getting another Metroid (in a new direction), we're getting a new Zelda (also possibly in a slightly new direction), and who knows what other franchises we'll see.

The whole "laziness" complaint was bad enough when it was just fans in a forum accusing third parties, but hearing it from professionals bugs the hell out of me. Of all people, they should know the kind of work that goes into making games and deciding how to make games. There's a HUGE difference between making wrong decisions and being lazy.

I agree totally with you there. But that goes back to what I was talking about before. How many developers do you think WANT to make fitness and party games? I know I wouldn't. The good devs aren't making the ripoff party and fitness games (for the most part). We need good devs to come up with good ideas for games that can appeal to both the pop culture image of the Wii AND still be appealing to gamers as quality software. I don't know what that kind of game would look like, but.... Well, what about NSMB Wii? It has the party feel AND the classic feel AND the brand name (AND the quality that you're talking about). Things like that will sell.

JordanElek

Sepewrath, I'd appreciate it if you read my posts on the previous pages. If not the long one, at least the short ones that came before. :).clicketyclick

Nintendo doesn't need to stop being lazy. Calling out Nintendo for that won't get anybody anywhere. It's like calling you out for not using proper grammar. As I've explained before, Nintendo will just see those complaints and say "WHAT???"JordanElek

[QUOTE="JordanElek"]Nintendo doesn't need to stop being lazy. Calling out Nintendo for that won't get anybody anywhere. It's like calling you out for not using proper grammar. As I've explained before, Nintendo will just see those complaints and say "WHAT???"clicketyclick

JK! But if that were true, it'd complete the analogy. If the people at IGN really want to be activists and get Nintendo to change what they're doing, calling them lazy is the completely wrong way to go about it. There are other things to focus on that CAN make a difference. But there aren't many of those things, and I think Nintendo has probably already learned its lesson thanks to sales figures that speak much louder than a podcast or opinion piece.