Could New Super Mario Bros Wii's success anger developers/publishers?

In the IGN thread it was mentioned that the success of NSMBWii could possibly have pissed off a lot of developers/publishers. Specifically because it was a 2D game and it is pretty much destroying all (well not all as Modern Warfare 2 is still sitting pretty) these 3D games in terms of sales. I've always felt that over the last several years more and more in the industry have tried to act as if 2D gaming was dead. I think Sony for a while had a "no 2D games" rule for some of their systems but can't be sure on that. That games in 2D weren't worthwhile when it came to consoles and they were a thing for handhelds. However this generation we've seen that isn't the case, well it was never the case. Games such as New Super Mario Bros Wii, Muramasa: The Demon Blade, and even Tatsunoko vs Capcom to name some recent 2D console games are great and seem great (TvsC isn't out yet so can make a judgement on that but if it's similar to past 2D fighters then it will be.). These games, specifically the new Mario game have brought 2D games back to the forefront for everyone. Everyone now knows how great they can play, how great they could look, and how fun in general they can be without being to complex. It also gives a message that Nintendo isn't done with the 2D design and more then likely will continue to embrace it along side 3D gaming.

However many other developers have an exclusive focus on 3D gaming and hyper realistic graphics. So the the idea of going back to 2D I'm going to assume is an extremely foreign idea. I wouldn't be surprised to find out that some of them might very well be furious that New Super Mario Bros. Wii has been so successful and that people of all ages have embraced it. After all this isnt' a handheld game. This isn't a downloadable game on WiiWare, PSN, or Xbox Live Arcade. Areas where "2D games are suppose to be located". This is a full fledge console game that was treated by Nintendo as their top game of the year to focus on.

So what do you think? Think some developers/publishers are upset over NSMBWii's success?

i agree with you completely. Even Sega is going back to 2d with Sonic HD. hopefully they dont put a dumb gimmick and the game will turn out well. Ever since sonic went 3d things began to fall apart for him

In the IGN thread it was mentioned that the success of NSMBWii could possibly have pissed off a lot of developers/publishers. Specifically because it was a 2D game and it is pretty much destroying all (well not all as Modern Warfare 2 is still sitting pretty) these 3D games in terms of sales. I've always felt that over the last several years more and more in the industry have tried to act as if 2D gaming was dead. I think Sony for a while had a "no 2D games" rule for some of their systems but can't be sure on that. That games in 2D weren't worthwhile when it came to consoles and they were a thing for handhelds. However this generation we've seen that isn't the case, well it was never the case. Games such as New Super Mario Bros Wii, Muramasa: The Demon Blade, and even Tatsunoko vs Capcom to name some recent 2D console games are great and seem great (TvsC isn't out yet so can make a judgement on that but if it's similar to past 2D fighters then it will be.). These games, specifically the new Mario game have brought 2D games back to the forefront for everyone. Everyone now knows how great they can play, how great they could look, and how fun in general they can be without being to complex. It also gives a message that Nintendo isn't done with the 2D design and more then likely will continue to embrace it along side 3D gaming.

However many other developers have an exclusive focus on 3D gaming and hyper realistic graphics. So the the idea of going back to 2D I'm going to assume is an extremely foreign idea. I wouldn't be surprised to find out that some of them might very well be furious that New Super Mario Bros. Wii has been so successful and that people of all ages have embraced it. After all this isnt' a handheld game. This isn't a downloadable game on WiiWare, PSN, or Xbox Live Arcade. Areas where "2D games are suppose to be located". This is a full fledge console game that was treated by Nintendo as their top game of the year to focus on.

So what do you think? Think some developers/publishers are upset over NSMBWii's success?

NeoStar9

No it will not piss them off. Naturally if they see this they will try to duplicate this success by bringing more 2D games out... this could revitalize the 2D gaming space on consoles, which should happen because we could use more 2D games such as the upcoming Mega Man 10, and stuff like that. This should make developers want to make more 2D games, not piss them off. Hope I helped.

2D games in this Generation

Megaman 9

Final Fantasy IV: The After Years

New Super Mario Bros. Wii

Braid

Street Fighter 4 (yes that's 2D or...2.5 D)

BlazBlue

Muramasa The Demon Blade

Tatsunoko vs Capcom (Japan)

A Boy and His Blob

Super Street Fighter 2 Turbo HD Remix

Wario Land Shake it!

Super Smash Bros. Brawl (2.5D?)

That's to name a few.

Meh, I doubt it. But if they are, whatever it takes to get more third party devs off their asses to try and compete (for the Wii, at least.)

I think a lot of developers would be quite happy to see the market turn towards 2D gaming again. It means you can make games for a lot cheaper in less time, while still making themgood and succesfull.

Not that I think New Super Mario Bros. is going to make the market change like that, I'm quite sure it's success is largely dependent on the name attached to it.

I think a lot of developers would be quite happy to see the market turn towards 2D gaming again. It means you can make games for a lot cheaper in less time, while still making themgood and succesfull.

Not that I think New Super Mario Bros. is going to make the market change like that, I'm quite sure it's success is largely dependent on the name attached to it.

_BlueDuck_

NSBW sold more copys then mw2 on ps3 almost, so i think its safe to say mario is a COD killer. MW1 sold 12m units on pc,360,ps3,mac,ds Mario kart wii sold 18.6m and its exclusive..

Pfft, if they're going to complain about being beaten by a 2D game then it's their fault for ignoring an entirely competent genre.

NSBW sold more copys then mw2 on ps3 almost, so i think its safe to say mario is a COD killer. MW1 sold 12m units on pc,360,ps3,mac,ds Mario kart wii sold 18.6m and its exclusive..

Javieralijandro

Video game "journalists" usually replicate big Western third parties' ideas, particularly the kind of ideas that third parties don't usually mention out loud (except Bobby Kotick, of course). These "journalists" talk about the Wii HD because third parties want a Wii HD so they can ignore it like they ignored the Gamecube, that is, ignore it without feeling threatened, unlike what's happening with the Wii. Video game "journalists" are going crazy lately because this new 2D Mario is outselling 3rd parties' über awesum 10-hour-long-but-hey-there's-online-multiplayer games. Isn't it just a little bit TOO weird that after getting great reviews at, say, IGN, that very same website is calling it a DS port and complaining about every little idiotic detail they think can resonate with teh über hardcorex all over the Internet?

It's not called "the video game INDUSTRY" for no reason. It's an industry indeed, and the media has a role to play. Whenever you read something about this or that product causing illnesses, accidents and whatnot, there's a big chance that said product is threatening a big incumbent corporation, and this corporation reached out for the media to do the dirty work for them. Nintendo threatens the video game industry because they decided not to play by the industry's rules and it has worked for them. It's that simple.

I think most developers know that Mario sells pretty darn well. At least I would hope they would know that by now... :?

not really... everybody sane enough knows that mario sells well no matter what..... greenarcher02

I don't think it's angering anyone, if anything, they'll just take the idea of 2D and use it.DevilBorg

I think most if not all developers are aware that mario is not selling because it's 2D, it's selling because it's mario.

But, they should also be aware that a 2d mario is selling to people that may have dropped gaming when it went 3D. They liked games better when games were simpler, and so decided to focus on growing up, having kids, and starting careers instead. That's why punch-out was so successful. If devs are going to copy anything from NSMBwii, it should be a simple first, fun first, everything else second, approach to gaming.

Whenever a Nintendo first-party game gets released for the Wii it tends to become a top seller therefore frustrating those developers who actually made a much more decent game with alot more effort but fails to sell (e.g. Cold Mountain). Nuff said.

Whenever a Nintendo first-party game gets released for the Wii it tends to become a top seller therefore frustrating those developers who actually made a much more decent game with alot more effort but fails to sell (e.g. Cold Mountain). Nuff said.

Aero5555

If its true, its true. No other exclusive or even non exclusive game will outsell some of the games Nintendo published for the Wii. Nintendo's games appeal to a wider audience and thats what Shooting games in general dont do(im not saying they should, they have their own audience to impress)XenoLair

I'm just saying that it's really sad, as if Nintendo has isolated the Wii and the company is its only friend. And people ask why 3rd party developers shy away from the Wii.

By the way, unless I've misunderstood, Cold Mountain is survival horror not a shooter.

I did read the first few posts but devs/pubs want to say nothing, this is the kind of game we want it's a more traditional game in that it's well known and has been advertised and through thisthe big N has had success.

I think most if not all developers are aware that mario is not selling because it's 2D, it's selling because it's mario.

But, they should also be aware that a 2d mario is selling to people that may have dropped gaming when it went 3D. They liked games better when games were simpler, and so decided to focus on growing up, having kids, and starting careers instead. That's why punch-out was so successful. If devs are going to copy anything from NSMBwii, it should be a simple first, fun first, everything else second, approach to gaming.

goblaa

Whenever a Nintendo first-party game gets released for the Wii it tends to become a top seller therefore frustrating those developers who actually made a much more decent game with alot more effort but fails to sell (e.g. Cold Mountain). Nuff said.

Aero5555

LOL... Cold Mountain? Apparently, that game was so great of an effort, some people can't remember the game's real name. :P

Anyways, why should publishers be angry at NSMBWii's success? It's not like anyone couldn't have seen the game fly off store shelves, given the fact that it is a Mario game and a follow-up to a DS game that has sold close to 20 million copies. If anything, I think some developers will be pleased to know that 2D games can still be pretty viable under the right circumstances; while this may not mean that publishers will be more willing to embrace 2D projects that are not made for the online services, it still might serve as something of a reference should that one potential breakthrough comes along. It's likely that NSMBWii's sales will surpass those of Super Mario Galaxy (it pains me a tad to say that, but I'll live :P), so if anything, it shows that even the biggest of franchises have areas where they flourish the most in, and it doesn't always have to cater to tech-junkies in order to be at its most appealing.

Also, I believe some credit has to be given to Nintendo here. As the TC said, Nintendo treated NSMBWii as if it was its top console game, despite the fact that it was 2D. I'm sure it's easier to market these kinds of games when you have Mario to work with, but an effort still has to be there to drive a game, and Nintendo has done that. If anything, I hope the success of NSMBWii will inspire publishers to not only give quality 2D games a chance, but also be more than willing to advertise them as much as a high profile shooter or action game (yeah, I know I'm asking for WAY too much here...). I think 2D games still have a great sense of appeal to them, especially when you consider the expanded market in gaming now, so I would hope that more within the industry would start to embrace the advantages that 2D games can still bring to the table.

I think most if not all developers are aware that mario is not selling because it's 2D, it's selling because it's mario.

But, they should also be aware that a 2d mario is selling to people that may have dropped gaming when it went 3D. They liked games better when games were simpler, and so decided to focus on growing up, having kids, and starting careers instead. That's why punch-out was so successful. If devs are going to copy anything from NSMBwii, it should be a simple first, fun first, everything else second, approach to gaming.

goblaa

Your forgot Little Big Planet, it may allow you to move backwards and forwards into the foreground, but at its core it is a 2D platformer. I don't think anyone can be upset about the games success. It is a Mario game after all and its expected to move big numbers. However what I believe it shows alongside games like LBP and SFIV is that a 2D game can be big in the sale department with the right name or the right marketing in this day and age. You don't have to have the biggest baddest 3D game on the market to move good numbers, however 2D isn't exactly going to become a cash cow. Sepewrath

[QUOTE="XenoLair"] If its true, its true. No other exclusive or even non exclusive game will outsell some of the games Nintendo published for the Wii. Nintendo's games appeal to a wider audience and thats what Shooting games in general dont do(im not saying they should, they have their own audience to impress)Aero5555

I'm just saying that it's really sad, as if Nintendo has isolated the Wii and the company is its only friend. And people ask why 3rd party developers shy away from the Wii.

By the way, unless I've misunderstood, Cold Mountain is survival horror not a shooter.

What is the point of 20 years of gaming innovation if we are just going to go back to restricting ourselves to a 2D plane. Some games need to be 2D like Smash Bros or Streat Fighter, but not the case with most other games.

The last 3 Metroid games were FPS game that still functioned the same as the 2D games, but instead you are in a 3D space behind the awsome visor of Samus Aran, and now Metroid Other M is going to be a sidescroller? I will not enjoy that near as much as I did the Prime games. I will be very happy once Metroid got back to the tried and true Metroid FPS formula that Retro Studios set.

What is the point of 20 years of gaming innovation if we are just going to go back to restricting ourselves to a 2D plane. Some games need to be 2D like Smash Bros or Streat Fighter, but not the case with most other games.

The last 3 Metroid games were FPS game that still functioned the same as the 2D games, but instead you are in a 3D space behind the awsome visor of Samus Aran, and now Metroid Other M is going to be a sidescroller? I will not enjoy that near as much as I did the Prime games. I will be very happy once Metroid got back to the tried and true Metroid FPS formula that Retro Studios set.

snover2009

3rd parties should be pissed enough coz they have a hard time selling on Wii without the Mario name in a RED case getting all shoppers attention from Deadly Creatures to Nintendo's latest release

I think Nintendo needs to take a page from Sony and actually advertise third party games in their wii commercials

How hard would having a Wii console commercial with clips of New Super Mario, Wii Fit, AND Silent Hill, Modern Warfare Reflex, De Blob, be??

Sony throws Demons Souls and other 3rd party games into their PS3 commercials

i'd think everything Nintendo has done this holiday to make sure people buy NSMB Wii instead of Final Fantasy, Silent Hill, Rabbids Go Home, etc would upset devs more

I think a lot of developers would be quite happy to see the market turn towards 2D gaming again. It means you can make games for a lot cheaper in less time, while still making themgood and succesfull.

Not that I think New Super Mario Bros. is going to make the market change like that, I'm quite sure it's success is largely dependent on the name attached to it.

_BlueDuck_

[QUOTE="XenoLair"] If its true, its true. No other exclusive or even non exclusive game will outsell some of the games Nintendo published for the Wii. Nintendo's games appeal to a wider audience and thats what Shooting games in general dont do(im not saying they should, they have their own audience to impress)Aero5555

I'm just saying that it's really sad, as if Nintendo has isolated the Wii and the company is its only friend. And people ask why 3rd party developers shy away from the Wii.

By the way, unless I've misunderstood, Cold Mountain is survival horror not a shooter.

Well, if third parties made games as high qulaity as nintendo does maybe I'd be more inclined to uy them...

3rd parties should be pissed enough coz they have a hard time selling on Wii without the Mario name in a RED case getting all shoppers attention from Deadly Creatures to Nintendo's latest release

I think Nintendo needs to take a page from Sony and actually advertise third party games in their wii commercials

How hard would having a Wii console commercial with clips of New Super Mario, Wii Fit, AND Silent Hill, Modern Warfare Reflex, De Blob, be??

Sony throws Demons Souls and other 3rd party games into their PS3 commercials

i'd think everything Nintendo has done this holiday to make sure people buy NSMB Wii instead of Final Fantasy, Silent Hill, Rabbids Go Home, etc would upset devs more

darth-pyschosis

Wow... so should the majority of third party publishers be upset with Activision for releasing Modern Warfare 2 as well? :P Nintendo's not going to sit around and not release a game during the holiday season, so I don't know where you're coming from here. There's room enough for a Mario game and another title (if you don't believe me, look at how Scriblenauts did on the DS, despite being released at around the same time as Mario&Luigi), but it's up to third parties themselves to create the appealing products and generate excitement about them. If they're upset that Nintendo released NSMBWii over the reason that they're having trouble selling games, I feel bad for them.

As for this whole idea that Nintendo should be releasing commercial montages that show third party games, it's not that I don't mind the suggestion, but I do still see a problem with it. What you're asking Nintendo to do is take its own time, money, and resources to do something that the publishers behind games like Silent Hill and Modern Warfare Reflex won't even bother doing, which is promoting their games. It's not as if Nintendo hasn't done montages before, even with the Wii, but it's still not the responsibility of Nintendo to drive third party games. You'd think that after seeing what has happened the previous 11+ months of this year, people wouldn't try to play the blame game with Nintendo on this subject, but regardless of if Nintendo releases Mario or Wii Music during the holidays, it's going to take heat. *shakes head*

A good game doesnt have to have great graphics and play in 3D, thats something otherdevelopers need to understand.

Perhaps this will encourage Konami to make a 2D Castlevania game for consoles. The 2D Castlevania games for the DS are brilliant so having one on the Wii or perhaps even the PlayStation 3 would be epic.

no

lol it is not up to the developers whether or not nsmb sold,

but third party devs still are making more third party for wii than they did in the same timeframe for Cube and N64intro94

Which is why I never bought a Cube and my N64 was left collecting dust only 2 years after I bought it (1997-1999), replaced by a PSX (not to mention that I bought the N64 only because the Saturn was left to die and I underestimated Sony). Even though the support on the Cube and N64 was less compared to the Wii the games on them were better IMO thanks to the devs misunderstanding of the Wii's architecture. Until recently I was getting more fun out of Cube games than actual Wii games.

Well, if third parties made games as high qulaity as nintendo does maybe I'd be more inclined to buy them...

goblaa

I'm sorry but last time I checked even crap games made by Nintendo sell big on the Wii so long as their target is casual. *looks at sig* right, maybe in 1994? (no offense but baseless fanboy justifications are just begging for some cold response, not meant to be rude, it's only video games).

LOL... Cold Mountain? Apparently, that game was so great of an effort, some people can't remember the game's real name. :P

Madmangamer364

Yeah my bad. I'm apparently having a hard time recalling titles that gave me a 4-day interest in a console that had been collecting dust on my shelf for a couple of years.... *moves along*

I'm sorry but last time I checked even crap games made by Nintendo sell big on the Wii so long as their target is casual. *looks at sig* right, maybe in 1994? (no offense but baseless fanboy justifications are just begging for some cold response, not meant to be rude, it's only video games).

Aero5555

Well, nintendo hasn't been making crap games except for wii music (which bombed). Their pathetic attempts at new play control failed to sell. And that donkey kong racing game that was so terrible sold for crap too. Other than that, all their products have been damn good and sold very well.

Even third party casual shovelware for the most part doesn't sell. Sure, there are a couple exceptions like carnival games and deca sports, or games with brand names to them like mario vs sonic at the olympics...but 99% of the shovleware you see on the shelves hardly moves. Most don't sell over 30,000 units.

Heck, look at deca sports 2. First one sold 2mill and was awful. The second one was equally bad, but no one was willing to be fooled twice as it only sold slightly over 30k. Even carnival games (which IMO was no where near as bad as people made it out to be) dropped from 3.5 mill to 800k with it's sequel. Now, 800k is the kind of numbers many third parties dream of, but it's still a massive drop.

But my point is, nintendo is simply making better games and being smarter about release schedules and advertising. Third parties are still putting the c-teams on wii games, they're still using waggle, they're still putting games on rails when they shouldn't, they still aren't advertising, they're still under-budgeting.

They're simply making worse products.

They're simply making worse products.

goblaa

That statement couldn't be further from the truth. Unless the game is a cash-in or shovelware with the occassional bad game controls due to a QA screw up 3rd party games are getting better as time goes by. The problem is the volume of first-party games compared to 3rd-party, the margin's just too big. Most of who have a Wii use it only for family fun and buy first-party games exclusively while they satisfy their 3rd-party gaming needs with one of the other two.

3rd-party games aren't made to sell to the masses, simply because it's most likely not for the casual gamer which the Wii is depending on. I've been playing Tales of Symphonia II and it blows my mind how anybody with a love of RPGs and a Wii doesn't buy it ASAP, it's just as good as the first one gameplay-wise but still gets shred to pieces (6.5? ARE YOU KIDDING ME????) while games by Nintendo with half the effort and 1% of the depth sell like hot cakes. It's a sad sight no matter how you put it.

Well, nintendo hasn't been making crap games except for wii music (which bombed).goblaa

What is your deffinition of bombed? I'm pretty sure that Wii Music did pretty well.

What is your deffinition of bombed? I'm pretty sure that Wii Music did pretty well.

Arc2012

As of Febraury 2009 it sold 2.5 million units and Nintendo had the arrogance to call it "disappointing". I intentionally left that discussion out to not sound like I'm bashing Nintendo but since you brought it up...

a well-made 2D masterpiece is million times better than repetitive 3D shooter that plays exactly like the one i have played 2 years ago.funsohng