Why do you like/hate Dark Souls

Challenging, addicting, the sense of exploration, the hidden bosses, character costumization, and tons of other great stuff. It's my most favourite game of last gen along with fallout 3.

@ Pffrbt

Instadeath and one hit kills (evidence of Bloated enemy stats).

Bonfires too few and far apart, and the tedius journey of going back to get your resources after being killed is not fun at all when the baddies respawn,which you've already defeated and know you can defeat again, why do I have to prove again that I can beat those same baddies if the real challenging one is further ahead (as evident by it killing you....... cheaply...... With one hit, or two hits, 1st hit empties your stamina) just to get back to the thing that killed you.

And on the topic of Trial and Error, you won't know what you did wrong untill your dead, you'l be killed long before you figure out whats going on, if they use status ailments like poison then you're just a dead man walking even if you figure it out before dying, you learn by failing, not difficult at all, I'l just walk right up to the bad and tell him to take his best shot, get killed and come back alil bit smarter, its just way less stressful that way .

And lastly, a positive feedback loop goes both ways, if enemies get easier for the well equiped then they'l get harder for the poorly equiped. All that tells me is you win by gear or leveling up, not skill, a factor the player has no influence over when already in combat, so you practically lost before the fight started, which will happen in a non-linear RPG. Plus theres the "All Swords Are The Same" Trope, and it means exactly that. When getting a new sword, its definately got better stats than your old one, but they are identicle in practice/gameplay, they use the exact same mechanics and pull off the exact same combos. One just hits harder (or works better on specific enemies and worse on others).

Look, theres no shame in being a Masochist, nobody will judge ya, but I think its wrong for "From Sadists" to try and lure in those of us (normal people) who want a real challenge. I almost bought this game ya'know.

You seem weird today and its definately not because me. And how can you not tolerate me ? Dark Soul's is far more annoying than I am. Perhaps if you peeled your face off the TV, away from the console, you'd feel much better. :D

Don't worry about it, that's just how the internet works. When someone doesn't know how to challenge your argument he'll just call you dumb, automatic win for him.

Maybe he's mistaken why he thinks he likes it ....... I'm just trying to help him figure it out....... By trashing it ! Lol ;).

But in all seriousness people gotta be honest, atleast to themselves if not to others.

Umm, yeah this isn't exactly the case. Leveling up in Dark Souls helps you, but a lot of progress is determined by player skill. A skilled player can get through a boss fight without a scratch by managing stamina, using magic, or great evasion ability. You have a lot of players in DS that do dedicated runs of the game where they stay at a low level, or they never level up at all (SL1 playthrough). There's people that just use a shield for stamina regeneration so that they can evade better.

"All Swords" are NOT the same in Dark Souls. There are differences in the various weapon classes present in the game. For example: a straight sword handles differently than a katana. A katana handles differently than a greatsword. A greatsword handles differently than a spear or a rapier. Not only that, but there are variations within those same weapon classes.

Take rapiers for examples. Not all rapiers in the game have the same moveset. They do not use the exact same combos and mechanics. Depending on stance and input, different rapiers, for example, yield different combos. A 2-handed heavy attack from Ricard's Rapier results in a 6-hit thrust combo. The same input on, say Velka's Rapier, results in a overhead slash and one thrust combo.

Easily one of the best games ever made. A game where death has real consequences,the sense of tension and panic created by having to retrieve everything you battled hard to gain is unrivaled. So many times i was left depressed and crushed after dying on the mad run to get to my corpse,making easy mistakes because the thought of losing it all preyed on mind,refreshingly high stakes. Genius how although you'd already done the route, knowing and being aware of what was at stake upon doing it a second time naturally increased the difficulty. So i love this game because i couldn't complete it. Dark Souls remains one of the few games that i just couldn't beat. It wore me down,angered me,frustrated me,handed me a huge sense of achievement,punished my over confidence in the most evil of ways!! I don't think i played dark soul.. it played me. Fully deserves 10/10....brutal

@ gpuFX16

Once the patterns have been discovered (through trial and error) then regardless of player skill, combat is no longer a matter of difficulty, its just a matter of Patience, if one does not grind to level up and scavenge for better weapons then they can still take on the toughest of foes, its just going to take much longer since you won't hit as hard or move as fast, more commonly reffered to as "A Battle of Attrition" , also enemies don't have stamina... Hows that fair they can exhaust your stamina (or other resources) but you can't exhaust theirs ? Cheating !

Interesting, about the rapiers, aren't one handed rapiers and two handed rapiers considered two different sub categories ? Are there differences within single category ? And even so, are these weapons Balanced so that you never out grow them (in Gears Of War no weapon is simular and no weapon is better than another, balanced so that you never changing weapons is never because of inferiority) its an RPG so I doubt the same weapons you start out with won't eventuallyl be inferior to later weapons. Thats just how people want it.

Back to Stamina and resources, is that really a factor of difficulty if it only applies to the avatar and not the baddies, I mean if your avatar aint got enought stamina then what ? Stress about it ? That won't help, I mean theres nothing you can do about it whilst in combat. Its out of your hands. It test the avatar, not the player, plus you can level it up, get more stamina to make the game easier. Where else other games give you a fully capable Avatar so when you do **** up, then it Really was your fault was your fault, "Captain D!ckPunch can do it, why can't you ?"

Thats not the case with any RPG and Dark Souls is no exception, they can't beat me on equal grounds so Artificial Difficulty is ! Devil May Cry is way more difficult than that, yep the Reboot not 4.

@Lulu

-I dunno, we might have differing views on what 'cheating' entails. From what I gather, you're saying that enemies not having the same resources as the player is cheating. Well, do you think shooters are always cheating as well? The Grunts in Halo never run out of ammo for their Fuel Rod Cannon but I sure do. Think of almost any shooter ever. Your enemies rarely run out of ammunition like you do. I suppose they are cheating too, by that description. Feel free to correct me on that view, though- I have no problem with being wrong. Also, enemies in DS might not run out of stamina, but they can be staggered/stun-locked from high damage attacks and by using certain weapons. (Just like the player can) They can also be inflicted with poison/bleed/toxin status. (Just like the player can)

-No, there is only one category for Rapiers. The 1 hand/2 hand distinction I was making was referring to stance. In Dark Souls, you can wield your weapon with one or two hands. If you go 2-handed, you have access to more powerful and different moves, but at the cost of having your shield or auxiliary item active. As far as the weapons becoming inferior, it depends on the weapon. There are some weapons that are found early, that are indeed outclassed by weapons you find later. But the reverse is also true. The Uchigatana is available very early in the game. Upgraded, it is a fearsome weapon for a Dexterity-based character- so much that you probably may not need another weapon for the entire game.

@ gpuFX16

Not the same resources rules, a balanced equivalent will do just fine. in Batman the baddies compensate for not having alot of gadgets by playing by the numbers.

Exactly my stance on the game. I get enough grief about "video games being a waste of time". So if I lost two hours of progress it would potentially be a waste of time within a waste of time leaving no room for argument.

You forgot to address the difference challenging the player and challenging the character.

The reason why Dark Souls is so successful at what it does is because of its difficulty. If there were settings to lower it, the game would lose all purpose.

The inherently difficult obstacles you encounter is what intensifies the atmosphere and gameplay. There is actually risk in venturing into the unknown, which feeds into the motif of horror. Turning it into a cakewalk would do nothing but make it all mundane.

I agree whole-heartedly. The broken PvP didn't do anything besides give me unecessary headaches on top of the stress from the environment.

No, hell even Assassin's Creed can be challenging, but doesn't put the player off by impossible gameplay. Why would it stop you from playing on the hardest? Easy is not for you, then go hardcore/nightmare. Why do you even care what people play? Many people want to have fun and have little time. I don't get this logic at all. Why does it matter to you if it is even harder or as challenging on the hardest? You should not care if you have played it before and love it.

But why is this somehow different if you play it on easier difficulties? People aren't as skilled as others, and they don't spend money on this unfortunately even if the game might be great if the only purpose it has is being hard. Why is do people rage for something COMPLETELY optional?

i hate this game cause it plays really badly, the controls are stiff and you constantly get stuck inbetween enemies and die cheap. Also there should have been a good checkpoint system with a game this difficult, and you should lose all your exp when you die. its just a giant waste of time to play a game like this unless you like to punish yourself with a badly made game.

@Evil_Saluki: there is a story you just have to look for it, Read spell and item descriptions talk to npc's. i am also in my mid 30's and I grew up on games that had a challenge most modern games are made so they are easy to try hit a Broad audience and along with assuming gamers are all idiots with redundant tutorials dark souls does not.

@Lulu_Lulu: The gameplay is exactly what a difficult Dungeon Crawler should be.

If you hate it then it’s not for you.

@The_Last_Ride: The game is more based on an extreme learning curve at the beginning of the game.

It’s so much better after 5-6 hours into the game.

I agree with you. There could be the casual difficulty and regular, but with limits. Such as casual can't invade worlds, or hell, characters made on casual cannot interact with players on regular.

There are people genuinely interested in the Souls lore and story but cannot overcome it's learning curve and the fact the Souls community's motto is pretty much "Adapt or die" I find irritating. Difficulty options are just that - options. And it won't take out the atmosphere and tension like MadVybz said because he, presumably, would be playing on regular which means it's all the same as Demon's and Dark Souls whereas Mr Man who is interested but doesn't exactly have 20+hrs to sink in can still get a taste of the world and lore of the Souls game.

Opinions are one thing, but there are factually incorrect statements here that seem to be based on a lack of experience with the game. As mentioned, different weapon types have -very- different movesets and play very differently. The idea that all weapons behave the same besides their stats has no basis in fact.

Also, the idea that the game does not reward skill is ridiculous. Those enemies that may be able to kill you in one or two hits can be easily defeated with intelligent tactics and skillful play. Even if your stats are so low that an enemy will crush your guard and take off half your health in one hit, you can still parry/riposte that enemy for massive damage. Again, just like what I was describing in the survival horror game it's about risk/reward. If I fight my way to a strong enemy, do I gamble on trying to beat it early to earn a massive number of souls relative to my level or do I head back to spend that I've acquired so far?

A video like this illustrates how much skill is a factor in Dark Souls: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1hrh94Dc-h0

-Byshop

@Evil_Saluki: Dragon’s Dogma could’ve done ten times better.

It’s sad really.

I thought it could beat DS but it didn't

Unnecessarily long gameplay. Broken leveling system. Some of the worst hacking and slashing. There are no worthy combos. Limited character control. I spent 24 hours in the game just to realize my character is still a wimpy ass. So I thought I use a trainer. Then I reached level 720 (I guess) and still some skeletons could take me out easily. What kind of a game is this?

Exactly my point, i am not a poorly skilled player. But i would probably die loads of times in that game and just quit after a while because games should be fun and not frustrating to a point for those that have time for it and the dedication alone should experience it. Nobody is taking anything away from you if you play it on the hardest difficulty

I've played and finished both Demon's and Dark Souls with ease simply through grinding. But like we've agreed on, not many people have this amount of time.

I would very much like more people to talk about the game and how they may enjoy the art direction, level system, enemy types etc. But the Souls community is so hostile towards having an OPTION it's crazy. No doubt if it did have said option it'd drop in critic ratings, too.

I like a lot of things about Dark Souls, but I hate that even today I STILL haven't beaten it yet. D:

So let me get this straight. You suck at the game, so rather than get better you cheat to boost your character. Then you discover that since this is a game where stats do not trump player skill, you still get killed because you still suck at the game?

First of all, congrats on being a huge part of what's wrong with gaming in general. Secondly, what you just described actually sounds like a reason to like the game.

-Byshop

That would be stupid if it suffered in any just because of that...

The gameplay isn't impossible. It is fair in every way, it's just weighty and has a steeper learning curve than most other games. And honestly your comment about Screed made me laugh. Those games aren't challenging in the slightest, the only times I have to reload a checkpoint is when I don't pay enough attention and ruin the objective. I'm currently playing Screed 3, I have only the default weapons and I'm essentially untouchable; I got bored at one point so I started fighting guards. Next thing I knew, the whole damn street was littered with bodies and there I was, unscathed. But I digress.

What people generally don't realize is that everything in Dark Souls is deliberate, including the difficulty, which is the adhesive that keeps the whole thing together; a harsh but fair challenge that forces you to think more strategically the next time around. The gameplay is what serves the horror factor as opposed to bells and whistles like ominous, lingering music or what have you. Combine that with the recovery system and complete unpredictability, and you got a truly horrific and frustrating experience that is all the sweeter to overcome, which is the entire reason why the Souls games exist in the first place.They're not trying to be Elder Scrolls here, there's a reason why they're designed the way they are. But no, instead taking the games as they are, people complain and ask for lower difficulty settings, which will render aforementioned designs redundant.

Think about it. Why the **** would you keep the recovery system if the game is piss easy? Bonfires are the only safe havens you find throughout the game. Reaching one will no longer be a huge sigh of relief, it'll just be another checkpoint you carelessly pass along the way to the end. The game would quickly go from a well-crafted horror RPG to a less interesting, effortless waste.

Also I don't completely understand your arguments based on time constraints. Are you honestly trying to argue that people may not have time to tackle a difficult game, yet at the same time ignoring that Dark Souls is also an RPG? Any RPG you play will be time consuming, regardless of difficulty.

Assassin's Creed was just an example that used it right, and had no difficulties. Dark Souls doesn't do it right imho. It puts people off just because of that, and that is weird and a shame. Why are you still on about this, why would it bother you if it was an easy mode. It's optional dude... Play the hardest difficulty

I'll try to pitch in just a little bit. What I think Mad was getting at is what a lot of Souls fans get at: giving the game set difficulty modes goes against the premise of the game. Dark Souls and its predecessor were designed to be difficult, challenging games from the get go. Every area, every enemy, every boss, almost everything in the game is built around the steep challenge and the subsequent feeling of success and reward for surmounting said challenge. That, in my view, is what gives the game character and separates it from a lot of other RPG's out there. So yeah, I would be a bit disappointed if the game got an easier mode. Not because it hurts my ego, but because it would cause the game to lose some of its identity. (If you're designing the entire game around overcoming tough challenges, and then add an easier mode, then why design the game around the challenge to begin with?)

Now I get where others are coming from though- really. I rarely play games above Normal difficulty simply because I play primarily to have a good time. Some people just want the story and such, but I mean, the way I'm looking at it, games have different audiences. The Souls games are built the way they are, and they're not for everybody. To give a personal example, I'd like to play more fighters like Street Fighter or Virtua Fighter, but those two are just too technical for me. They're not games for someone like me, they're games for a narrower audience which does not include players like myself. Which is fine, because there are other fighter options on the market.

Two problems:

1) The difficulty is based on core gameplay mechanics that are difficult to meter with something like a difficulty setting. The instant death "platforming" elements, poisin, toxin, non-corporeal ghosts who need a curse to be hit or can attack you through walls, stun locking from multiple enemies attacking at once, etc are harder to scale with difficulty levels versus just raw HP and damage stats.

2) The drop-in co-op/competative multiplayer basically prevents difficulty levels since in order for it to be balanced everyone needs to be on a level playing field. This is also part of the reason why you can't have multiple save slots.

-Byshop

No, that is exactly why the game should be highly regarded. In the industry's current state where so many games require so little thought to complete, for Dark Souls to leave such a menacing mark on people is great. It's a reminder that shit isn't always easy, and rising to a challenge despite the odds and coming out on top is much more gratifying than being able to create death showers at the press of a button.

Besides, at the end of the day, Dark Souls isn't even that hard. Play long enough and you'll figure out simple and effective strategies to defeat every enemy.

Dark Souls probably isn't for you, and that's fine - I'm not the kinda guy to praise a game just because it's hard. I praise DS because it's one of the best - if not the best - designed games of last generation.

Yeah screw you too Byship. When I posted this I knew some jackass like you would come here and say this. But let ME get this straight. I definitely am one of the most skilled players in that game. I took out that spider witch with really low stats. Later I watched a walkthrough on that. Some guy was damaging that witch 200 then 400 then 600 something like that and my damage was 50 100 200 yet I took care of that thing. I took nearly all the bosses with my smart. Like that guy who was carrying two machetes. I would jump on him from above which would do much more damage. Or that gigantic fiery thing. You dumbass fanboy admit that Dark Souls leveling system is of no use. Meaning harvesting all those souls is good for nothing (WTF?). So if you think I'm what's wrong with gaming take a look at yourself and realize that fanboyance is bless.

HAHAHAHHA! By all means, tell me more about how awesome you think you are and how I'm a fanboy because I didn't use a trainer and then whine about how I still suck even after cheating.

-Byshop

It seem like everyone have pointed out everything , so i'll make it simply (The one who actually leveling up here is the player not the character) LOL , So I love it (Addicted)

Not only are you a fanboy but I can tell that you'r a noob too. I never used trainer because I got stuck at some point. I wanted to see how badass a 720 level looks. And I got immediately disappointed to realize that you are not achieving anything by leveling up and being careful not to mess it up and lose those souls. Then there was no motive for me.

@Lulu_Lulu: WOW ?

Dude you should just not play games.

Because you are bashing everything that Gaming is about.

Dark Souls is the ultimate Dungeon Crawler in last gen.

Have you even finished or played the game.

Because you seem to have the wrong facts at hand.

Why do you bring up games like Batman ??

Difference is massive.

You are bringing up games that aren’t nearly as difficult as DS. Not that they are bad.

But you whining about DS being difficult and bash it because it’s not a game of Skill but patience just shows everyone that you don’t know anything from the game. In fact, I would hardly believe you if you told me that you’ve played it.

And if you have then you probably hated every second of it.

It’s not patience, it’s analyzing your enemy’s attacks.

Every single game has this.

Why are you moaning about the obvious ?

Batman games has this too FYI.

You should just drop gaming as a whole. You trying to look at a game critically and thinking you know something from games is pathetic.

If you like games, try to glorify them instead of bashing one game because it has things that every single violent game has. You are even bashing the very game you love unless it’s racing or sport.

I'm having serious doubts that you've even played Dark Souls.

...You do realize that souls literally buy everything in the game, not just boost your stats, right?

Also, the leveling system will only prove useless if you don't implement it properly. You're meant to build certain stats, not boost all of them, and the devs cleverly made a way to avoid any character being too overpowered by having level caps. If you try to go beyond let's say, level 140 or 150, improving your stats any more will have very little effect.

And I don't know what you mean by that skeleton comment either. What, did you not have anything equipped at all? What kind of loadout were you using? What was your character build?

I've beaten Dark Souls more times than I can count and reached to New Game Plus 7 with multiple builds that never went over level 130, I had no problems with any enemies like you claim.

@MadVybz: I do remember at the beginning of the game that you had to choices. Go to the undead church and ring the bell or go down to the catacombs.

Going to the Undead Church was easier.

Going to the catacombs was where you encountered tons of skeletons.

You shouldn’t have gone to catacombs first.

Skeletons are to powerful when you are at lower level.

Rather go up to undead burg.

I guess the guy started the game and then didn’t go up to undead burg. ( probably didn’t see the stairs)

So he just tried to go down and down.

He failed and now he is saying the game sucks.

I call BS on him saying he has finished the game.

@alim298: You probably built the worst build in Dark Souls history.

Hey, this guy is "definitely one of the most skilled players in that game". That statement is irrefutably backed up by his claim that he beat "that gigantic fiery thing" and a few dozen spelling and grammatical errors. I admit, I was skeptical until he said:

"I took nearly all the bosses with my smart."

If that's not proof of this guy's genius, I don't know what is.

ROFL!

-Byshop

go play Skyrim if you want your hand held throughout the game

@Flubbbs: Don’t have to through in other RPG’s in. Skyrim is an awesome game.

If he wants his hand held then he should go to COD end of story ?

I didn't once say I'd play on casual. I like it's default difficulty. All I'm trying to say is there are other interested in the game that cannot overcome the curve. But people like you are hostile towards them.

I DID go to the catacombs first. And I DID beat that level. (The boss was a three headed masked guy). And I DID spend my souls increasing only two or three stats (agility, endurance and something else). MadVybz is right though. You could spend those souls buying stuff. I guess I rarely did that. I did improve my weapons though. Again I'm not saying I got stuck at some point because my stats were low. I'm saying there was nothing in this game for me to look forward to. But still I believe the game is unbalanced. I spent hours fighting those skeletons and driving them to the end of the cliff so that they fall and I gain cheap souls. But all that time seemed wasted when I located those stairs leading to the burg.

thats because the entire idea of this series was difficulty

@alim298: IKR i also tried to go down to the catacombs at first.

And then I saw the staircase.

But how do you get weapons that only do 200 max.

That’s kinda low.

@Lulu_Lulu: You got to be kidding me if you think the reboot is more difficult than DMC 4.

LMAO