Not sure why everyone keeps falling for this "nice"crap being put forth lol. The pretentiousness drips from every sentence.
What is it with this forum and RPGs?
This topic is locked from further discussion.
@the_bi99man: So basically what you're suggesting is that you're in favour of censorship.
I'm going to have to be very wary of you. You seem like the hot-headed type that will give me lots of trouble. What are some of your favourite games? I'm guessing you like RPGs as well, since my opinions seemed to evoke a very significant emotional response out of you.
Man these trolls are getting elaborate. Take notes dakur.
@hammerthrust said:
@illmatic87:
@illmatic87 said:
To answer your question directly @hammerthrust. RPG's are like this holy grail of gaming because of how deliberate the games are with their depth. The flaunting of numbers and stats are easy to quantify and as a result, it gives off the notion that RPGs are some 'high-brow' genre of videogames that are either: played by intellectuals or legitimizes someone to be into complex or 'hard' videogames. There's also the 'RPG and story' relationship, but that's just so dumb.
It's a stupid line of thinking. Other genres--even 'dumb' action games are just as equal or can have far more depth than RPGs. It's just that the depth appears to be alot more nuanced in active play interactions.
I think the only legitimate quality that's legitimate is that RPGs are certainly up there in terms of game length and value for single player games.
It definitely does seem like it to me and right there lies the pivotal point of the problem we've got going here. Everyone here seems to love RPGs, and yet here I am just profoundly bewildered at the fact that there's even a market for these "games". I don't see the appeal at all! There's definitely lots of math, lots of logistics, lots of masturbatory intellectual stuff that's totally drawn out and unnecessary, but people seem to love it! I've even got a few people on here that are lashing out at me, calling me an idiot, and just being totally disparaging towards my point of view. It's totally not fair. But aside from that, it's not as if I'm particularly scared of these people. I find that if they ever met me in real life, they'd change their tone quite quickly! Hahaha!
I mean, it's cool if you enjoy RPGs but also enjoy the kind of games I like. It's always awesome to find other people that appreciate the particular kind of value and depth that I find in the games that I play. Even though RPGs generally don't tend to hold my attention, I would never base myself as inferior to any of these "intellectuals" and I would never consider myself less of a gamer. If I wanted to look at numbers, I'd go enroll in another university program or something. RPGs always reminded me of school, and it's no wonder all the nerdy kids in my school growing up played shit like Might and Magic. It's par for the course when you have a genre of games that have the entertainment value of a set of bus schedules,
This is turning into a debate about social identities rather than the genres themselves.. Everything you've said has been very generalized.
Have you played The Witcher 3 ? Dark Souls ? How about Bloodborne ? You said you have a PS4.
Bloodborne in itself has so many different qualities going for it. Playing it just because of its oppressive atmosphere ? Playing it because it has a pretty steep learning curve (if it's your first time playing a Souls game) and gives a challenge ? Playing it because of its combat mechanics ? Playing it because of its story and lore ? Or how about just playing it because it has one of or even maybe the best use of lovecraftian horror themes in any video game to date.
All these reasons to play Bloodborne are absolutely valid and yet not one of them has any of the points you harp on that makes RPG's a supposedly unnecessary genre.
That last paragraph of yours spells out an insecurity but let's not poke at it too much.
If you find RPG's have the entertainment value of a bus schedule then gosh... It's a damn shame.
On a different note, what games do you play and what is your most played game?
I take offence to being called a pasty white nerd...I'm actually pretty tanned.
@acp_45 said:
@hammerthrust said:
@illmatic87:
@illmatic87 said:
To answer your question directly @hammerthrust. RPG's are like this holy grail of gaming because of how deliberate the games are with their depth. The flaunting of numbers and stats are easy to quantify and as a result, it gives off the notion that RPGs are some 'high-brow' genre of videogames that are either: played by intellectuals or legitimizes someone to be into complex or 'hard' videogames. There's also the 'RPG and story' relationship, but that's just so dumb.
It's a stupid line of thinking. Other genres--even 'dumb' action games are just as equal or can have far more depth than RPGs. It's just that the depth appears to be alot more nuanced in active play interactions.
I think the only legitimate quality that's legitimate is that RPGs are certainly up there in terms of game length and value for single player games.
It definitely does seem like it to me and right there lies the pivotal point of the problem we've got going here. Everyone here seems to love RPGs, and yet here I am just profoundly bewildered at the fact that there's even a market for these "games". I don't see the appeal at all! There's definitely lots of math, lots of logistics, lots of masturbatory intellectual stuff that's totally drawn out and unnecessary, but people seem to love it! I've even got a few people on here that are lashing out at me, calling me an idiot, and just being totally disparaging towards my point of view. It's totally not fair. But aside from that, it's not as if I'm particularly scared of these people. I find that if they ever met me in real life, they'd change their tone quite quickly! Hahaha!
I mean, it's cool if you enjoy RPGs but also enjoy the kind of games I like. It's always awesome to find other people that appreciate the particular kind of value and depth that I find in the games that I play. Even though RPGs generally don't tend to hold my attention, I would never base myself as inferior to any of these "intellectuals" and I would never consider myself less of a gamer. If I wanted to look at numbers, I'd go enroll in another university program or something. RPGs always reminded me of school, and it's no wonder all the nerdy kids in my school growing up played shit like Might and Magic. It's par for the course when you have a genre of games that have the entertainment value of a set of bus schedules,
This is turning into a debate about social identities rather than the genres themselves.. Everything you've said has been very generalized.
Have you played The Witcher 3 ? Dark Souls ? How about Bloodborne ? You said you have a PS4.
Bloodborne in itself has so many different qualities going for it. Playing it just because of its oppressive atmosphere ? Playing it because it has a pretty steep learning curve (if it's your first time playing a Souls game) and gives a challenge ? Playing it because of its combat mechanics ? Playing it because of its story and lore ? Or how about just playing it because it has one of or even maybe the best use of lovecraftian horror themes in any video game to date.
All these reasons to play Bloodborne are absolutely valid and yet not one of them has any of the points you harp on that makes RPG's a supposedly unnecessary genre.
That last paragraph of yours spells out an insecurity but let's not poke at it too much.
If you find RPG's have the entertainment value of a bus schedule then gosh... It's a damn shame.
On a different note, what games do you play and what is your most played game?
The idea that I am proposing a debate about social identities is quite bizarre and confusing. I am not sure where you got that idea from. There are several examples of me discussing at length the things I don't like about RPGs, their mechanics, the ludonarrative dissonance that takes away from the main story they are trying to provide, and the general attitude that RPGs tend to have. When I'm playing a game, I look at it very closely. I try to understand what the game is trying to do, who it's trying to appeal to, and the disposition the game has towards the player as each game slowly unveils itself. Take for instance, a game like Flappy Bird. The game is a quick, instantly gratifying affair that makes people happy and gets their pleasure senses flowing. One may reasonably conclude from their observations of Flappy Bird that yes, Flappy Bird is indeed a game. It is an arcade style game. It is trying to create an experience that engages the player in a fun, flowing activity that utilizes the strengths of reaction time and attention span. There's no numbers involve, there's no menus to flip through, this is pure gaming. Therefore, one can easily determine the target audience that Flappy Bird is trying to appeal to: The normal person!
Some of these games, I just don't understand the appeal at all. For instance, you talk in depth about the Soulsbourne series, and so I think this is an excellent opportunity to segue into what my thoughts are on Dark Souls and Bloodborne. I do not like these games at all, I find them utterly revolting as a matter of fact. Not only are they RPGs (and I am assuming you all know my stance on this malevolent cancer on gaming), they are RPGs that pride themselves on their unnecessary difficulty spikes and elliptical learning curves that are so famously part of their entries. They are the perfect games to slit your wrists to; I do believe you have to display some masochistic traits to enjoy the attitude that this series of games is trying to convey to the player. Depressing, dark, evil games for emo kids. My real life is depressing enough, I don 't need to be depressed in a video game as well. It doesn't matter if it's got story and lore; there's plenty of other games that have story and lore and don't also make me want to stick my head in an oven and wait for the pain of my woeful life to be over. Dark Souls appeals to a very specific type of person, and that person isn't me.
@davillain-: Why does everything have to be about race? I am sick of hearing about race in such trying and turbulent times! Race this, race that. Everyone silence themselves and stop talking about race! It is driving me crazy!
The 'pasty white nerd' doesn't have to be an actual person, silly fool! The 'pasty white nerd' is a transcendental spirit, an idea that encapsulates the ugly nature of the RPG genre! The 'pasty white nerd' is a euphemistic concept that binds to us all regardless of our backgrounds and identities, and whether we like it or not, capitalism principally succeeds from exploiting the very same concepts that I am using right now in this very discussion about gaming! Think about it very carefully, you have a genre of games whose sole purpose of existing is to be a 500 hour long alternative to people that have 10 hours a day to spend gaming, compared to more normalized game experiences that have a bare amount of content that serves as the framework; the ensuing fun and time spent is down to the intuition and personal exploration of the player. Look at the fundamentals and the features that all RPGs have in common. Long, drawn out stories about characters you have no real reason to care about. Bullshit junk all over the ground that you have to pick up and collect. Enemies and opponents that serve no purpose than to be killed and get loot so that 500 hours later, you can use it to craft a sword. What demographic is this philosophy of design trying to appeal to?
Haha, you sir get a 10/10 from me. I haven't seen provocative posting this elaborate in quite some time.
The level of self-reflection and pretentious use of language as if you are analysing the mere mortals.
The random stereotypes and the classic "I was an MMO addict and now I hate MMO's" cliche!
The whole idea that RPG game loops are to make an escape from reality ... and that is somehow a bad thing.
Mentioning how poor the game loops are, when even the most moderate RPG's end up having more complex designs than some of the very simple games you have mentioned.
Then comes the victim card, and masking provoked confrontation with mindless little "look I'm decent see?" conversations thrown in between.
But no really, do analyse all of our tastes and then tell us your unique insight.. I'm sure it will be bias free and worth reading! ;-) I also loved the "You play a role in 99% of video games, so wtf does RPG's even mean anymore" cliche that you are totally the first person to ever take a genre title so literally.
11/10 for using a MMORPG avatar, and a name like HammerTrust... oh a coincidence you say? do tell us the amazing tale of how you got the name HammerThrust in real life.. dying to here.
@xantufrog said:
moved to Games Discussion. This is not SW material
I'm sorry for transgressing upon your posting conduct. System Wars had the most traffic, so I thought I would avoid some dead air by posting this discussion there.
@MBirdy88 said:
Haha, you sir get a 10/10 from me. I haven't seen provocative posting this elaborate in quite some time.
The level of self-reflection and pretentious use of language as if you are analysing the mere mortals.
The random stereotypes and the classic "I was an MMO addict and now I hate MMO's" cliche!
The whole idea that RPG game loops are to make an escape from reality ... and that is somehow a bad thing.
Mentioning how poor the game loops are, when even the most moderate RPG's end up having more complex designs than some of the very simple games you have mentioned.
Then comes the victim card, and masking provoked confrontation with mindless little "look I'm decent see?" conversations thrown in between.
But no really, do analyse all of our tastes and then tell us your unique insight.. I'm sure it will be bias free and worth reading! ;-) I also loved the "You play a role in 99% of video games, so wtf does RPG's even mean anymore" cliche that you are totally the first person to ever take a genre title so literally.
11/10 for using a MMORPG avatar, and a name like HammerTrust... oh a coincidence you say? do tell us the amazing tale of how you got the name HammerThrust in real life.. dying to here.
You seem like you're really bothered by the opinions I've shared; I'm getting a very aggressive tone from you and your post. Tell me, what is so terrible and immoral about what I've said? Are you going to cry yourself to sleep tonight because a guy on the Internet doesn't share the same opinion as you on your favourite genre of games? How about instead of being rude, calm yourself down, go get some gear and gold in World of Warcraft, and realize that not everybody is going to like the same things as you. I am a 42 year old man, so chances are I'm much more experienced in life than you. There are going to be a lot of situations in life that will be much more difficult than whatever disagreement you have on this forum.
What are your favourite games? I'm guessing you're an RPG fan also?
@hammerthrust said:
@MBirdy88 said:
Haha, you sir get a 10/10 from me. I haven't seen provocative posting this elaborate in quite some time.
The level of self-reflection and pretentious use of language as if you are analysing the mere mortals.
The random stereotypes and the classic "I was an MMO addict and now I hate MMO's" cliche!
The whole idea that RPG game loops are to make an escape from reality ... and that is somehow a bad thing.
Mentioning how poor the game loops are, when even the most moderate RPG's end up having more complex designs than some of the very simple games you have mentioned.
Then comes the victim card, and masking provoked confrontation with mindless little "look I'm decent see?" conversations thrown in between.
But no really, do analyse all of our tastes and then tell us your unique insight.. I'm sure it will be bias free and worth reading! ;-) I also loved the "You play a role in 99% of video games, so wtf does RPG's even mean anymore" cliche that you are totally the first person to ever take a genre title so literally.
11/10 for using a MMORPG avatar, and a name like HammerTrust... oh a coincidence you say? do tell us the amazing tale of how you got the name HammerThrust in real life.. dying to here.
You seem like you're really bothered by the opinions I've shared; I'm getting a very aggressive tone from you and your post. Tell me, what is so terrible and immoral about what I've said? Are you going to cry yourself to sleep tonight because a guy on the Internet doesn't share the same opinion as you on your favourite genre of games? How about instead of being rude, calm yourself down, go get some gear and gold in World of Warcraft, and realize that not everybody is going to like the same things as you. I am a 42 year old man, so chances are I'm much more experienced in life than you. There are going to be a lot of situations in life that will be much more difficult than whatever disagreement you have on this forum.
What are your favourite games? I'm guessing you're an RPG fan also?
You got aggressive from that? I was amused.
"There are going to be a lot of situations in life that will be much more difficult than whatever disagreement you have on this forum."
I'm so enlightened right now, that is the most profound statement ever made on an internet forum, I am humbled by the level of intelligence before me.
@hammerthrust: What are your favorite games?
@RSM-HQ: I'm quite confused by what you mean. I am clearly talking about games in my posts. This thread has to do with the curiosity regarding why RPGs are so popular on this forum.
@RSM-HQ said:
System-Wars seems full of troIIs, fanbois, and cry-babies as usual. Wish it didn't need to be transferred to the Games Discussion board. The place people actually discuss 'games'.
I'd rather the Mods keep these pointless rants on System-Wars_
I'm more surprise this didn't get move to Games Discussion in the first place ASAP when the TC made this wacky thread in the first place and this was made like a few days ago in SW.
@drrollinstein: I generally gravitate towards games of a very high quality. Romance of the Three Kingdoms, Dynasty Warriors, Nobunaga's Ambition, Uncharted, God of War, Killzone, Call of Duty, and various fighting game/sports series. Expensive taste, very exquisite and high end. These are very pricey games and not easily obtainable to the common consumer like your typical mediocre game.
@davillain-: @hammerthrust: Hammer. From what I've read you don't know how to actually discuss game(s)
You're just making a rant, about a previous rant. Then annoying other users for having opinions that're not >yours<. Acting like you're the all to end all.
It's hot-air garbage_
Your taste is not the only one of value. Heck; I dislike simulator games, 'story' games, most sandbox filler, and many other genres. But don't neglect whole other audiences with a different appeal to my own.
Hence the reason why this trash isn't worth discussing further. Or was at all!
What I've seen in this stupid thread is provocative behaviour. And it's not just you TC, most replies are encouraging this joke of a thread to go on.
So, again. I'd recommend this be moved to at least Off-Topic or back to System-Wars please Mods. Either place that'll accept this kind of tripe_
@hammerthrust said:
@drrollinstein: I generally gravitate towards games of a very high quality. Romance of the Three Kingdoms, Dynasty Warriors, Nobunaga's Ambition, Uncharted, God of War, Killzone,Call of Duty, and various fighting game/sports series. Expensive taste, very exquisite and high end. These are very pricey games and not easily obtainable to the common consumer like your typical mediocre game.
@hammerthrust said:
@drrollinstein: I generally gravitate towards games of a very high quality. Romance of the Three Kingdoms, Dynasty Warriors, Nobunaga's Ambition, Uncharted, God of War, Killzone, Call of Duty, and various fighting game/sports series. Expensive taste, very exquisite and high end. These are very pricey games and not easily obtainable to the common consumer like your typical mediocre game.
The Uncharted collection is currently about £25 new on Amazon you can get all the Killzone game for around the same price, I wouldn't consider that pricey or hard to obtain. In the digital age very few games can be considered hard to obtain.
Your post reeks of pretentiousness. You just listed some of the most commonly played AAA games and acted like it's something special.
@hammerthrust: Oh you're not again RPG ... you're again MMO.
RPG are more of a solo game, alone where you either have an epic story ( see Persona 4, Final Fantasy, Child Of Light etc ) or you have more liberties in open world ( see Fallout, Elderscroll, Dragon Age etc )
MMO are online by nature and it is like an alternate reality in some ways (see World Of Warcart and Neverwinter night )
@hammerthrust: That is some elitist shit right there and you listed some of the most well regarded AAA type of game that like ... almost everyone played. Nothing special here and not more expensive than buying a RPG game ... no matter what you buy, you pay way too much especially if you buy the season pass or the DLC ... and well most of those game are quite short for a 80$ CAD ...
@hammerthrust said:
@drrollinstein: I generally gravitate towards games of a very high quality. Romance of the Three Kingdoms, Dynasty Warriors, Nobunaga's Ambition, Uncharted, God of War, Killzone, Call of Duty, and various fighting game/sports series. Expensive taste, very exquisite and high end. These are very pricey games and not easily obtainable to the common consumer like your typical mediocre game.
Ah ok. I just needed final confirmation that you werent serious.
@drrollinstein: I'm confused by what you're trying to say. What makes you think I'm not serious?
@xantufrog: Make sure you eat something nice and healthy!
@hammerthrust: Because everything you post is just overly silly.
I have to give you credit though, you're one if the most elaborate trolls I've seen yet. Good show.
@hammerthrust said:
@acp_45 said:
@hammerthrust said:
@illmatic87:
@illmatic87 said:
To answer your question directly @hammerthrust. RPG's are like this holy grail of gaming because of how deliberate the games are with their depth. The flaunting of numbers and stats are easy to quantify and as a result, it gives off the notion that RPGs are some 'high-brow' genre of videogames that are either: played by intellectuals or legitimizes someone to be into complex or 'hard' videogames. There's also the 'RPG and story' relationship, but that's just so dumb.
It's a stupid line of thinking. Other genres--even 'dumb' action games are just as equal or can have far more depth than RPGs. It's just that the depth appears to be alot more nuanced in active play interactions.
I think the only legitimate quality that's legitimate is that RPGs are certainly up there in terms of game length and value for single player games.
It definitely does seem like it to me and right there lies the pivotal point of the problem we've got going here. Everyone here seems to love RPGs, and yet here I am just profoundly bewildered at the fact that there's even a market for these "games". I don't see the appeal at all! There's definitely lots of math, lots of logistics, lots of masturbatory intellectual stuff that's totally drawn out and unnecessary, but people seem to love it! I've even got a few people on here that are lashing out at me, calling me an idiot, and just being totally disparaging towards my point of view. It's totally not fair. But aside from that, it's not as if I'm particularly scared of these people. I find that if they ever met me in real life, they'd change their tone quite quickly! Hahaha!
I mean, it's cool if you enjoy RPGs but also enjoy the kind of games I like. It's always awesome to find other people that appreciate the particular kind of value and depth that I find in the games that I play. Even though RPGs generally don't tend to hold my attention, I would never base myself as inferior to any of these "intellectuals" and I would never consider myself less of a gamer. If I wanted to look at numbers, I'd go enroll in another university program or something. RPGs always reminded me of school, and it's no wonder all the nerdy kids in my school growing up played shit like Might and Magic. It's par for the course when you have a genre of games that have the entertainment value of a set of bus schedules,
This is turning into a debate about social identities rather than the genres themselves.. Everything you've said has been very generalized.
Have you played The Witcher 3 ? Dark Souls ? How about Bloodborne ? You said you have a PS4.
Bloodborne in itself has so many different qualities going for it. Playing it just because of its oppressive atmosphere ? Playing it because it has a pretty steep learning curve (if it's your first time playing a Souls game) and gives a challenge ? Playing it because of its combat mechanics ? Playing it because of its story and lore ? Or how about just playing it because it has one of or even maybe the best use of lovecraftian horror themes in any video game to date.
All these reasons to play Bloodborne are absolutely valid and yet not one of them has any of the points you harp on that makes RPG's a supposedly unnecessary genre.
That last paragraph of yours spells out an insecurity but let's not poke at it too much.
If you find RPG's have the entertainment value of a bus schedule then gosh... It's a damn shame.
On a different note, what games do you play and what is your most played game?
The idea that I am proposing a debate about social identities is quite bizarre and confusing. I am not sure where you got that idea from. There are several examples of me discussing at length the things I don't like about RPGs, their mechanics, the ludonarrative dissonance that takes away from the main story they are trying to provide, and the general attitude that RPGs tend to have. When I'm playing a game, I look at it very closely. I try to understand what the game is trying to do, who it's trying to appeal to, and the disposition the game has towards the player as each game slowly unveils itself. Take for instance, a game like Flappy Bird. The game is a quick, instantly gratifying affair that makes people happy and gets their pleasure senses flowing. One may reasonably conclude from their observations of Flappy Bird that yes, Flappy Bird is indeed a game. It is an arcade style game. It is trying to create an experience that engages the player in a fun, flowing activity that utilizes the strengths of reaction time and attention span. There's no numbers involve, there's no menus to flip through, this is pure gaming. Therefore, one can easily determine the target audience that Flappy Bird is trying to appeal to: The normal person!
Some of these games, I just don't understand the appeal at all. For instance, you talk in depth about the Soulsbourne series, and so I think this is an excellent opportunity to segue into what my thoughts are on Dark Souls and Bloodborne. I do not like these games at all, I find them utterly revolting as a matter of fact. Not only are they RPGs (and I am assuming you all know my stance on this malevolent cancer on gaming), they are RPGs that pride themselves on their unnecessary difficulty spikes and elliptical learning curves that are so famously part of their entries. They are the perfect games to slit your wrists to; I do believe you have to display some masochistic traits to enjoy the attitude that this series of games is trying to convey to the player. Depressing, dark, evil games for emo kids. My real life is depressing enough, I don 't need to be depressed in a video game as well. It doesn't matter if it's got story and lore; there's plenty of other games that have story and lore and don't also make me want to stick my head in an oven and wait for the pain of my woeful life to be over. Dark Souls appeals to a very specific type of person, and that person isn't me.
You still haven't told me what games you normally play.
Trying to justify a simple game's orthodoxy in basic game design to one you deem more complex because it has RPG strapped to its box is all on you. Dark Souls is a simple game. Through and through. You just went and used some very 'unnecessary' adjectives to describe its philosophy. Souls games have always just been pretty much a rock paper scissors type of game. It requires the player to approach each enemy with caution and with the mindset of learning the movesets the enemy has. Once the player has memorized all the moves and has faced an enemy more than once they start to master the engagement they have with this enemy. Boss fights are basically the same. Maybe the boss gets a second form halfway through their health bar, which requires you to once again humble yourself and memorize the moveset. The developers gave each attack or combo a small build up or subtle movement so you know what is coming. It's up to you if you want to engage with the game in this way. Reaction time and attention span. These two words can be applied here too. You call it unnecessary difficulty spikes but that's just your unwillingness to learn. Emo kids hey? Sure. As long as it gives you whatever dilapidated assurance you need, you can insert whatever demographic you have disdain for. You seem to struggle with the idea that people like these games and yet at the very end of your post you admit that it is meant to be played by a specific type of person. So I don't see the point in arguing about how these games are cancer to gaming when you can just come to terms with it. It's just not your jam. Instead of trying to be a walking anti-thesis...maybe just some acceptance would be enough.
This was an interesting read. Well parts of it anyway, i didn't read everything. Despite the troll attempt, i do believe the TC has some legitimate points and i'll make a guess its an older gamer? I'm running into an issue myself for the past decade or so where i don't enjoy anything that i play and most of what hits the shelves doesn't even look appealing anymore. Character designs from Japanese developers have become particularly off-putting. Lately i've thought a lot of it has to do with super detailed art and visuals combined with more frequent use of spoken dialogue by VAs entirely cuts out any imaginative aspect of the experience. Its all well and good that a developer can clearly tell me how a character acts, speaks and moves more accurately than they ever could because of advancements in technology and game development but... what if i don't like any of it? Before, i could use my imagination to "fill in the gaps" for what my character does and says, now i typically cannot do that. I believe that is one of the major reasons games like Zelda are always so appealing. Dark Souls as well.
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