@hammerthrust said:
It definitely does seem like it to me and right there lies the pivotal point of the problem we've got going here. Everyone here seems to love RPGs, and yet here I am just profoundly bewildered at the fact that there's even a market for these "games". I don't see the appeal at all! There's definitely lots of math, lots of logistics, lots of masturbatory intellectual stuff that's totally drawn out and unnecessary, but people seem to love it! I've even got a few people on here that are lashing out at me, calling me an idiot, and just being totally disparaging towards my point of view. It's totally not fair. But aside from that, it's not as if I'm particularly scared of these people. I find that if they ever met me in real life, they'd change their tone quite quickly! Hahaha!
I mean, it's cool if you enjoy RPGs but also enjoy the kind of games I like. It's always awesome to find other people that appreciate the particular kind of value and depth that I find in the games that I play. Even though RPGs generally don't tend to hold my attention, I would never base myself as inferior to any of these "intellectuals" and I would never consider myself less of a gamer. If I wanted to look at numbers, I'd go enroll in another university program or something. RPGs always reminded me of school, and it's no wonder all the nerdy kids in my school growing up played shit like Might and Magic. It's par for the course when you have a genre of games that have the entertainment value of a set of bus schedules,
To answer your question in a way that does NOT involve a heavy dosage of logical fallacies including absurd strawmen. (though he has a few points including how shallow most RPGs really are).
RPGs are such a wildly popular genre because of how diverse these games are. RPGs are one of the most diverse genres out there, and can be engineered to appeal to anyone regardless of preferences to games. Developers can add puzzle elements to RPGs just as easily as they can add FPS elements (borderlands). Likewise due to some clever but manipulative game design. Really, many of the design choices common in the genre appeal because they push the right psychological buttons, be it rewarding, offering player agency and many more. You should look into the psychology of the genre. It is actually pretty fascinating.
Regarding the elitism of the RPG fanbase. RPG fans dont nearly look down on other genres as portrayed. Hell, on the website that has arguably the biggest ammount of pro-RPG elitism completely reviled the new Doom because of the addition of RPG elements. Same goes with NuXCOM and many more games. Which brings me to the biggest issue.
RPGs can be good, if not great games. But the biggest problem with RPGs is that RPG elements simply put dont mix well most other genres. As typical of the genre, the RPG comes with a lot of variables, which
- for action games completely botches the usually tight balance that action games crave. RPG elements also slow down the pace dramatically. Instead of every encounter being balanced around bayonetta being a badass with 2 guns, and excellent aerial fighting capabilities. Encounters now have to be balanced around a ranged focused bayonetta, a magic focused bayonetta and a melee focused bayonetta. Not to mention, the crippling overspecialization of bayonetta would seriously hurt the variety the game would be aiming for. Instead of adapting based on her situation, Bayonetta would just follow her specialization throughout the entire game. It also comes with an additional nasty side effect. In the old school Dooms, exploration was done for the sake of survival. In the modern doom with new upgrade system. There were very few hidden staches of goods necessary to survive, the exploration was now tied down to character upgrades.
- For Platformers RPG elements just slow down the pace of the game. Notice how most platformers are at their best when enemies die in one hit. It also hurts the level design badly, since the level design in Sonic or Mario is specifically designed around a forest critter or plumber's platforming abilities. With RPG elements thrown in there, there are once again, too many variables to account for. Also, reach that goalpost as fast as you can, dont sit there grinding goombas to level up your jumping ability.
- For serious strategy games. You want the game to exist in the game so to speak. If you face a Zerg, you will know that your opponent can build Zerglings and that those units have 35 hit points and cost 25 minerals. Trying to throw out of game balances just adds more complexitity but none of the depth. In short, you would create a clusterfuck by adding unnecessary RPG elements.
Likewise, Action elements screw up the RPG game, action elements often put a heavy emphasis on action and combat, in a genre whose only real strength is ROLE-PLAYING. Skill design and character systems often take a hit too. In Turn Based RPGs, the game can account for multiple party members (hopefully) adding tactical depth to the game. Skill design is usually much better too. Whereas, in action RPGs, spellcasters are often archers shooting fireballs, in more turn based stuff, it is not uncommon at all to find mages being entirely support and utility. The action oriented nature simply put does not lend well to more manipulative playstyles.
In short. What I have noticed a lot of these RPG elitists strive for is Genre Purity, not RPG supremacy. Call of Duty's RPG elements are seen as detrimental for the game, just like the action elements of FF15 are seen as detrimental. In the end, the issue is not FPS or RTS. It is these wierd hybrids that capture the strengths of neither.
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