Should Game Developers Listen To "Whiny Gamers"?

I've been following the development of Deus Ex HR. Clearly, it won't be as good as the first one, but it's still

looking to be a pretty decent game.

But what's with all the whining from the fans? People are complaining about everything: the cover system, take down animations, third person view, etc.

Folks didn't like the object highlighting, so it was made into an option. This is all fine and well, even though highlighting makes total sense. After all, you're playing someone with advanced capabilities, so it stands to reason that your character has some way of assessing the environment without having to turn over every box or open every door, etc.

The thing is, though, where is this all supposed to end. Crowdsourced game development? Please everyone? Listen to the particular vocal minority of obsessive fans?

Games for me are like novels. I want to play the game as the developer intended it to be. I don't want a game designed by fans. You know the old saying: too many cooks spoil the broth.

Game developers absolutely should notlisten to whiny fans, or even heavily listen to any fans at all. They should be putting more effort into making fans realize that they know what the players want to play more than the players do. Well maybe that only applies to Nintendo; they're the only people that really make fun games anymore. Everyone else has spent so much time constantly listening to the fans, answering to their every whim that I don't even know what the games they release now are supposed to be. Fun? No, they do have fun in thembut they don't seem to be about fun as much as they seem to be about doing everything their infinitely-diverse consumer base tells them to.

*Shrugs* I haven't paid much attention to HR, but there's nothing wrong with developers listening to suggestion/criticism from fans and sometimes making adjustments to their games.

The request you mentioned (allowing gamers to turn off highlighting and search for things manually) strikes me as reasonable.

I've been following the development of Deus Ex HR. Clearly, it won't be as good as the first one, but it's still

looking to be a pretty decent game.

But what's with all the whining from the fans? People are complaining about everything: the cover system, take down animations, third person view, etc.

Folks didn't like the object highlighting, so it was made into an option. This is all fine and well, even though highlighting makes total sense. After all, you're playing someone with advanced capabilities, so it stands to reason that your character has some way of assessing the environment without having to turn over every box or open every door, etc.

The thing is, though, where is this all supposed to end. Crowdsourced game development? Please everyone? Listen to the particular vocal minority of obsessive fans?

Games for me are like novels. I want to play the game as the developer intended it to be. I don't want a game designed by fans. You know the old saying: too many cooks spoil the broth.

Ricardo41

Video game players on the whole are whiney, snotty, elitist, fanboy, know-it-allgeekboys. They give the hobby a bad name, and make me ashamed of my endless love for the hobby. Sometimes I think I'm the only cool human being who plays videogames on planet Earth. And no, I'm not kidding. I'm pretty sickened when I go to Gamestop's around my area. The employees embarass me. Luckily, I've found a game store in my area with some pretty chill people, and I go there exclusively. But I can't call myself a "gamer", because the company I'd share would be appauling.

Love,

-Me

The changes made to Human Revolution simply add options to gamers. However, when it comes to actual design concepts developers should distance themselves from fans as much as possible during development. For better or worse, developers should go through with their intended design concepts. Even if they fail, it will be a invaluable learning experience. There's also a lot of cases in which fans dislike a concept when they hear about it, but change their minds once they actually try it.

Bottom line, developers - distance yourselves from fans during development, but never ignore post-launch feedback.

If a number of different people keep saying the same thing about your product, chances are, they have a point. Developers aren't complete dummies - they know how to take feedback and see what improvements consistently come back from testers (be they "whiners" or not).

If a large proportion of players/testers are saying it then yes, they should listen.

can't please everyone

*Shrugs* I haven't paid much attention to HR, but there's nothing wrong with developers listening to suggestion/criticism from fans and sometimes making adjustments to their games.

The request you mentioned (allowing gamers to turn off highlighting and search for things manually) strikes me as reasonable.

CarnageHeart

That's what I was thinking as well. I see making it optional as the perfect solution since it satisfies both types of players.

there are a few scenarios:

the game is the developer's vision through and through. they arent peddling to markets. this is ideal and id rather not have them dilute it for the sake of "the customer is always right" like they are making lunchboxes or something.

specific games that are specific cases. CoD is a good example. you could argue that the sole purpose of the multiplayer deathmatch is to provide a balanced competitive match. there are no higher statements like making one side stronger according to their historical triumphs. if this is the case, the developer might as well take data from players to achieve greater balance.

games that were conceived for a certain type of player. you see this all the time. these games are designed like products with a target market in mind. "test group x responded well to this feature so lets put it in." at this point, you might as well listen to fans rather than try to guess what they like.

"I don't knowthe key tosuccess,butthe key to failure is trying to please everybody."

-Bill Cosby

Seems to me this has got off topic, since the question is if development should listen to the whiny customer.

My length of experience dictates listening to the biggest squeaky wheel has always been a big mistake.Based on mmo experience where this has the most diversity, Ipersonally classify these people witha single focus. Special people, alpha testers, pvp/or just pve, groups are just about as devastating if the entire gamer base is not listen to.

Friends of development, generally a bad source, lack of gaming knowledge, generally interested in trivial things, over the more major and deeper in game play.

The famous nerf this guy he hit me in pvp and is to tough, that has effected and drove off more players in mmo's than anything else, not good. Generally resulting in nerfs, pvp only focus, and disruption of all other game play with removal of designed effects in cooperative game play, single game play etc.

Examples like this that drive 9 of 11 servers from the game, need to be ignored, while the major majority that many times is not whining or even making any comments get left with what a couple whiners wanted in a single players view.

If the majority that is not being heard from many times was viewed in a whole, I think development would have alot easier time with their tinkering with things. When a few whiners get their way, I like others generally end up leaving after enough nerfs, limitations, removals, because some whiner thinks something is op or something, but not smart enough to play that character if its that great. I have seen this time and again with these resultsby listening to the biggest squeaky wheel, or whiny customer.

No they shouldn't. For example Lord of the Rings Online. I beta tested that game and provided many suggestions on how to improve gameplay. Everytime I did LOTR fanboys would freak out because what I suggested wasn't in the books. These people had zero experience with MMO's they simply played because it was LOTR. I pointed out some of the suggestions I made were already in games they competed with but again "Nope not in books it goes against lore."

The game sucked in beta so I stopped playing. Turned out regardless what the fanboys cried about they'd later add to the game over time almost everything I originally suggested.

[QUOTE="Ricardo41"]

I've been following the development of Deus Ex HR. Clearly, it won't be as good as the first one, but it's still

looking to be a pretty decent game.

But what's with all the whining from the fans? People are complaining about everything: the cover system, take down animations, third person view, etc.

Folks didn't like the object highlighting, so it was made into an option. This is all fine and well, even though highlighting makes total sense. After all, you're playing someone with advanced capabilities, so it stands to reason that your character has some way of assessing the environment without having to turn over every box or open every door, etc.

The thing is, though, where is this all supposed to end. Crowdsourced game development? Please everyone? Listen to the particular vocal minority of obsessive fans?

Games for me are like novels. I want to play the game as the developer intended it to be. I don't want a game designed by fans. You know the old saying: too many cooks spoil the broth.

Jbul

Video game players on the whole are whiney, snotty, elitist, fanboy, know-it-allgeekboys. They give the hobby a bad name, and make me ashamed of my endless love for the hobby. Sometimes I think I'm the only cool human being who plays videogames on planet Earth. And no, I'm not kidding. I'm pretty sickened when I go to Gamestop's around my area. The employees embarass me. Luckily, I've found a game store in my area with some pretty chill people, and I go there exclusively. But I can't call myself a "gamer", because the company I'd share would be appauling.

Love,

-Me

+1 for making your self elitist and saying your above "gamers"

They should listen to fans and if the critic is deserved, they should do something. But blindly doing what the crowd want isn't good at all

Sure it's useful, but more important is for them to actually have a vision and not just box themselves in by playing safe.

I think game developers should listen to their customers or whoever buys their products, regardless of whether they are whiny or not.

[QUOTE="Jbul"]

[QUOTE="Ricardo41"]

I've been following the development of Deus Ex HR. Clearly, it won't be as good as the first one, but it's still

looking to be a pretty decent game.

But what's with all the whining from the fans? People are complaining about everything: the cover system, take down animations, third person view, etc.

Folks didn't like the object highlighting, so it was made into an option. This is all fine and well, even though highlighting makes total sense. After all, you're playing someone with advanced capabilities, so it stands to reason that your character has some way of assessing the environment without having to turn over every box or open every door, etc.

The thing is, though, where is this all supposed to end. Crowdsourced game development? Please everyone? Listen to the particular vocal minority of obsessive fans?

Games for me are like novels. I want to play the game as the developer intended it to be. I don't want a game designed by fans. You know the old saying: too many cooks spoil the broth.

edinsftw

Video game players on the whole are whiney, snotty, elitist, fanboy, know-it-allgeekboys. They give the hobby a bad name, and make me ashamed of my endless love for the hobby. Sometimes I think I'm the only cool human being who plays videogames on planet Earth. And no, I'm not kidding. I'm pretty sickened when I go to Gamestop's around my area. The employees embarass me. Luckily, I've found a game store in my area with some pretty chill people, and I go there exclusively. But I can't call myself a "gamer", because the company I'd share would be appauling.

Love,

-Me

+1 for making your self elitist and saying your above "gamers"

Not all... just %99.9999. See? I am humble ;)

There is valid community feedback and then there are idiots. If something *really* didn't work out, consumers have a right to point out flaws and make the developer notice. Functionality is key. I would rather have people whine about broken mechanics than listen to a lazy developer say that it's deliberate and part of the experience.

Devs should make the games they like not what the people expect them to make imo.

Good article, somegamers can get really picky, I dont think you can ever appease whiny gamers. Although, a dev should definantly listen to its gamers, they shouldn't listen to the vocal minority, because often it ends up ruining it for the majority.

I've been following the development of Deus Ex HR. Clearly, it won't be as good as the first one, but it's still

looking to be a pretty decent game.

But what's with all the whining from the fans? People are complaining about everything: the cover system, take down animations, third person view, etc.

Folks didn't like the object highlighting, so it was made into an option. This is all fine and well, even though highlighting makes total sense. After all, you're playing someone with advanced capabilities, so it stands to reason that your character has some way of assessing the environment without having to turn over every box or open every door, etc.

The thing is, though, where is this all supposed to end. Crowdsourced game development? Please everyone? Listen to the particular vocal minority of obsessive fans?

Games for me are like novels. I want to play the game as the developer intended it to be. I don't want a game designed by fans. You know the old saying: too many cooks spoil the broth.

Ricardo41

So by "whiney" you mean someone with a different opinion than yours?

:roll:

I got modded for my post... Oh well, make another one.

Is there really a line between critisim and advice? Devs need their community so yeah they should listen to the whiny gamers. (sort of) If enough people whine about something maybe theres some validity to thier complaints.

If hate builds up over internet I think it actually can be very harmful to business. If there is an easy fix to let some steam out, I think developers should do it. The highlightning in Deus Ex is a good example, which I think they solved in a clever way.

A bit. Just a bit. That's the trick. You shouldn't ignore the people who love your products, you shouldn't let them run the company. So a bit.

I believe game develops should listen to their fans but build their own game. For example, infamous 2 was pretty much built as the devs intended it to be. However, when pretty much the entire fanbase complained about the new character art, the devs took the advice and changed the character. That way they managed to please the fans, while still keeping the majority of the game design theirs.

This is how it should be most of the time. Devs make it how they want, nly if their is a large majority of fans pressuring for change should change even be considered.

Now, to quote Randy Marsh, "WOOOO! OBAMA! IT'S CHANGE!!!"

If hate builds up over internet I think it actually can be very harmful to business. If there is an easy fix to let some steam out, I think developers should do it. The highlightning in Deus Ex is a good example, which I think they solved in a clever way.

One problem though is that people may not always know what's good for them. During playtests of Deus Ex I read they had troubles with players aproaching it like a linear shooter, not using all the extra features that makes the game stand out. Hence the highlightning. I suspect some gamers may turn it off to be hardcore, but they will fall into the linear trap. Then they will probably whine about the game being a standard shooter, or COD clone etc. It's a very difficult balance for developers!Sushiglutton

If a player is SO caught up in the playstyle of the simple FPS's like CoD, to the point that they don't REALIZE there are alternate paths in DX, they are not going to be the type who was complaining about the highlights. the people who made those complaints were players of the first DX, and will know what to expect from a sequel.

furthermore, in order for a player to think that DX is just a shooter, they would have to know nothing of the first game, missed ALL the hype for this game, AND they would have to ignore every in-game tutorial.

look, reality check, there are gonna be a lot of shooter fans who play this game and say it sucks for a variety of reasons. so just take it with a grain of salt when someone says "I don't know what to do" when they don't know how to find the objectives screen, cuz there are gonna be THOSE people. and if they're the type who would need the highlights, and they turn them off, the difficulties are their own fault. people should have a real understanding of their skillsets before they try to be "hardcore".

Only if they can come up with a constructive argument and not "this feature is bull **** "thanks for ruining x game x developer" "this game is dumbed down" "this game sucks nuts!" ect ect. Just elaborate on your idea and give your reasoning.