Old games = fun . . . Today's games = boring

I agree with you in saying that games these days are too easy. I remember when it was a big deal to 'beat' a game, partially because they seemed to take longer to beat. Maybe it's because I'm older and smarter now, and can figure out stufff more easily. I think it's also true how developers spend too much time on graphics, presentation, and realism (IMO one of these least important things in games, totally overrated). Not to say these arent important, but as we all know, "graphics may win the battle, but gameplay will always win the war."

Games today are fun but yeah, way too easy. There are alot of complaints about Demon Souls and Dragon Age because you can actually die in the game. What a concept.

Games today are fun but yeah, way too easy. There are alot of complaints about Demon Souls and Dragon Age because you can actually die in the game. What a concept.

WindedSailor

Both have strong reviews, strong sales and (though DA has only been out for a day)tremendously positive word of mouth. Let's try to keep the discussion reality based.

Mmm I guess some games are like that. I still have had more fun with Super Mario Bros 3 than I have with a lot of the recent games out.

I agree with Windedsailor, games today are way too easy. Yes they're fun but not as fun as an old school game that you could play on your N64(which is what I had) or Sega and etc.

Games today are fun but yeah, way too easy. There are alot of complaints about Demon Souls and Dragon Age because you can actually die in the game. What a concept.

WindedSailor

Games today are fun but yeah, way too easy. There are alot of complaints about Demon Souls and Dragon Age because you can actually die in the game. What a concept.

WindedSailor

It seems to be an ongoing trend thanks to these casual games/mini-game compilations. :P

Hold your horses, I believe that some of today's games can be amazing, so relax everyone.

Nintendo did an amazing job with Wind Waker, look at my previous posts, I always loved it. I find it way better than Ocarina of Time. If every game matched the quality of Mario Sunshine, Mario Galaxy, and Wind Waker, I would shut up about the retro rant.

But not every company is like Nintendo.

I like Capcom, Mega Man 9 was amazing, Streety Fighter 4 was pretty good aswell.

I'm looking forward to 3D Dot Game Heroes. Braid is amazing. Geometry Wars is very fun.

But why is it so hard to make a better game than Mario 3 and Mario World? Let's hope New Super Mario Bros Wii can do it, if anyone can, it's Nintendo.

Am I the only one here who loves pixel art? I love those pixels.

I'm not narrow minded, I see where you guys are coming from. But on the contrary, you guys fail to see the other side of things, and one of you even called us retro gamers "losers", another says "myopic".

It's you guys who are harsh, so I have every reason to push back. Don't turn it around and say I'm the one who started getting angry.

I still play games, I'm just concerned with all the reading of bad dialogue, and tutorials, and roaming around lost. Most of the games being made are affraid to be games. When I start the game, I want the game to start. Is that so hard for you guys to understand and relate with?

Okami took 30 minutes of intro before you can start playing. This should never happen, and no one complained about it.

If some of you have uses words like "loser" and "myopic", which means I can say the following: open your eyes, you're all playing bad movies.

Bless Nintendo for the new Mario games and Wind Waker.

Rizla_Plus

Dude, you're trying waaay too hard. You're acting as though your retro games are in danger of being monopolized by the current gen. What's the point of griping about something that's beyond your control? You're just like an old man yelling at a trash can.

30 minutes? That's just a flat-out lie, just like your previous statements. The intro doesn't even take 15 minutes, but even then, so what? That's a small price to pay for hours and hours of gameplay.

Harsh? Last I checked, we're not the ones nitpicking around here.

[QUOTE="WindedSailor"]

Games today are fun but yeah, way too easy. There are alot of complaints about Demon Souls and Dragon Age because you can actually die in the game. What a concept.

CarnageHeart

Both have strong reviews, strong sales and (though DA has only been out for a day)tremendously positive word of mouth. Let's try to keep the discussion reality based.

Then you would have to lock this thread man...

... making it ungodly difficult would crush sales, and gaming as a whole. With the improvement of hardware and software over the generations, developers no longer need to make a game stupidly hard to artificially increase the game length. There's a huge difference between being hard, and being cheap. Many retro games were cheap.

From what I remember, some of the cheapest parts of past games is getting hit by a medusa head in Castlevania, or getting hit by an eagle in Ninja Gaiden NES, both resulting in you getting pushed off a platform and die (even with all your energy). Is that what you mean?

It pissed me of when I was a kid also. But everyone whent through the same challenges. While you might get frustrated by it, others (who went through the same challenges) delt with it and beat the game. When I play Castlevania and Ninja Gaiden NES I never get hurt by Medusas and eagles anymore, therefore it's not that cheap if the deaths can be avoided.

To me, cheap is when you're getting hit by bullets in a FPS, and because a FPS prevents you from seeing your avatar, you cannot dodge the bullets very well, you can't even see them. Now that's cheap.

Atleast a 2d platformer is more precise for gameplay, it might not be more immersive, but neither is chess (and chess is one of the best games ever made IMHO, it didn't need realistic graphics).

As for sales, I'm not asking that non gamers force themselves to play hard games. Let Activision make their crap.

But Jonathan Blow who was more in the dirt when he invested 300k of his own money, ended up taking a risk by making a difficult game with Braid. And it succeeded. That's honorable, and to be admired. And he hates the state of games today, and his way of thinking made him a millionaire. Don't think that there's only one way to succeed in life. If everyone makes easy games, those that make a hard game like Demon's Souls will stand out more, which is what you need in a saturated market.

But my views are not about pocketing others with money, I'm quite aware why people sell-out. I'm just pointing out that selling-out sucks for a gamer like me.

I'm surprised at all the apologists who defend selling-out.

But I say: If the experience goes through your mind easily, it will be forgotten easily. In other words, I never forget the hard games, they stay with me. Easy come, easy go.

And why with all the 2d games made over the last 8 years have we never gotten a game that compares to Mario 3 and Mario World? I think it's very doable. There's no excuse for the hiatus.

If the game doesn't challenge anyone, and everyone finishes the game, what do you prove to yourself in finishing it? It no longer is an accomplishment.

Although I have to admit, Ninja Gaiden NES is very cheap when you die at the last boss and it brings you all the way to the beginning of the stage. That was a bad idea.

Maybe you like the old games because when you were a kid playing these games you were more easily entertained. In general, games are more fun for kids. The reason you like them more today is because they bring back pleasant memories from when you were a kind playing them. If you had played todays games when you were a kid and then tried to play the older games, I bet you would complain even more.

If the game doesn't challenge anyone, and everyone finishes the game, what do you prove to yourself in finishing it? It no longer is an accomplishment.

This thread annoys me. The amount of classics from this and last gen I could list would fill up this page. There must be something wrong with your brain or something, maybe you should get that looked at. ^^b

bad_fur_day

Concerning 2d games: Most people agree that Shadow Complex failed to meet the standards of Super Metroid (which was made 15 years before).

Maybe I should get my brain examined? That's what my son told me when I said I like black & white movies, and he's 8 years old.

I'll repeat so that you can understand better my young lad: Shadow Complex failed to meet the standards of Super Metroid which was made 15 years before.

All fans of fighters will admit the following: Street fighter 3 is better than Street Fighter 4

All fan of platformers will admit the following: Sonic 1 & 2 are better than the new Sonics.

Even your friend Grammaton admits Twilight Princess failed to meet the standards of Zelda 3 (which was also made 15 years before).

Wake up nay-sayers, the idea that Tauu brought up and that I'm defending is not hard to understand. So when we voice our opinions on the matter, don't insult us.

Seeing that I have a memory, I think my brain is just fine.

Nintendo did an amazing job with Wind Waker, look at my previous posts, I always loved it. I find it way better than Ocarina of Time. If every game matched the quality of Mario Sunshine, Mario Galaxy, and Wind Waker, I would shut up about the retro rant.

Bless Nintendo for the new Mario games and Wind Waker.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As for sales, I'm not asking that non gamers force themselves to play hard games. Let Activision make their crap.

I'm surprised at all the apologists who defend selling-out.

But I say: If the experience goes through your mind easily, it will be forgotten easily. In other words, I never forget the hard games, they stay with me. Easy come, easy go.

If the game doesn't challenge anyone, and everyone finishes the game, what do you prove to yourself in finishing it? It no longer is an accomplishment.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Maybe I should get my brain examined? That's what my son told me

Rizla_Plus

One minute you gush over the craptastic Wind Waker (which was laughably easy and had long, intensely boring sailing bits), the next you are attacking games for abandoning cheapness (cheapness makes things tougher, and the tougher the better) and for not being fast-paced enough for you.

Before I asked that retrogamers ground their arguments in reality, now I ask that they try to compose coherent, consistent arguments.

[QUOTE="CarnageHeart"]

[QUOTE="WindedSailor"]

Games today are fun but yeah, way too easy. There are alot of complaints about Demon Souls and Dragon Age because you can actually die in the game. What a concept.

AtomicTangerine

Both have strong reviews, strong sales and (though DA has only been out for a day)tremendously positive word of mouth. Let's try to keep the discussion reality based.

Then you would have to lock this thread man...

:lol: Truer words have never been spoken.

Think for a second, all the new games are easy, so if I name a new game, don't be surprised its easy. They're all easy now. It's not my fault.

And Wind Waker is not my favorite Zelda, but I like it because its the only good Zelda of the new ones that isn't drab and grey. Do you think I'm happy about the slow-paced boat scene, ofcourse not.

And I never said I like old games only because they're hard. I just said that it's not a reason to hate them. I never said cheap is good. Read what I said, I admitted that the end of Ninja Gaiden NES is cheap in a bad way. Don't put words in my mouth.

This is what I said, learn how to read, I never said cheap is good:

cheap is when you're getting hit by bullets in a FPS, and because a FPS prevents you from seeing your avatar, you cannot dodge the bullets very well, you can't even see them. Now that's cheap.Rizla_Plus

Ninja Gaiden NES is very cheap when you die at the last boss and it brings you all the way to the beginning of the stage. That was a bad idea.Rizla_Plus

Don't put words in my mouth.

It's nostalgia. That's all it is. ASK_Story

If the game doesn't challenge anyone, and everyone finishes the game, what do you prove to yourself in finishing it? It no longer is an accomplishment.Rizla_Plus

[QUOTE="bad_fur_day"]

This thread annoys me. The amount of classics from this and last gen I could list would fill up this page. There must be something wrong with your brain or something, maybe you should get that looked at. ^^b

Rizla_Plus

All fans of fighters will admit the following: Street fighter 3 is better than Street Fighter 4

All fan of platformers will admit the following: Sonic 1 & 2 are better than the new Sonics.

Even your friend Grammaton admits Twilight Princess failed to meet the standards of Zelda 3 (which was also made 15 years before).

I don't think you'll find anyone who disagrees with this statement, however I also think that most people will agree that old gameshave notbeen translated on to the new generation of consoles very well.

It is not possible to get a decent sonic that is not on the mega drive and when you think about it it makes allot of sense, all sonic did was run really fast, jump on things and collect rings and we were happy with that because firstly that was a new thing and secondly the mega drive couldn't manage much more, but when new consoles come out with their new technology we expect more of our games and running really fast just doesn't cut it any more.

The first Zelda I played was Ocarina of Time and I do prefer it to the Twilight Princess, however it is only because the old Zelda format is not really good enough as modern rpg's go and while I am quite willing to accept it on an older console such as the N64, I expect better story lines, graphics and game play in a modern rpg then Zelda format can provide.

I am sure you can come up with an endless list of modern versions of classic games that are not as good as the originals; however this does not mean that all classic games are better then all new games, it simply means that the classic games have not been translation well on to modern consoles.

In my opinion if you take the best rpg/fighters/platformers on the Megadrive, SNES, N64or Playstation and then compare them to the best rpg/fighters/platformers on the PS2, PS3, Wii or Xbox 360, I think you'll find that the games on the newer consoles will be more enjoyable and more innovative then the classics.

For instance Street Fighter 3 could be considered better then Street Fighter 4, but Soul Calibre 4 is most defiantly better then Street Fighter 3.

Thanks Phantom for your well done reply, I agree with what you said, it makes alot of sense.

And to Muthsera666, I guess I like the concept of climbing mount Everest, heheh, it's exciting when you do the impossible.

Although playing board games with your friends also means that you might lose.

And if people enjoy movies more than games, than I understand why they want a touch of that in their games.

I just think that if you have a good game, it sucks to have it be interupted with a bad story that has bad dialogue. I'm a purist, but I make some exceptions, I'm very flexible.

Anyways, I have a feeling that Nintendo will not put much of a story/dialogue in NSMBW, I think we can all agree on that, it would not fit.

I'm sorry to hear that. I feel the craft has been elevated to a point where it now trumps all other forms of digital entertainment.

Think for a second, all the new games are easy, so if I name a new game, don't be surprised its easy. They're all easy now. It's not my fault.

And Wind Waker is not my favorite Zelda, but I like it because its the only good Zelda of the new ones that isn't drab and grey. Do you think I'm happy about the slow-paced boat scene, ofcourse not.

And I never said I like old games only because they're hard. I just said that it's not a reason to hate them. I never said cheap is good. Read what I said, I admitted that the end of Ninja Gaiden NES is cheap in a bad way. Don't put words in my mouth.

Rizla_Plus

I'm not going to address any of your other posts because frankly, you employ circular logic and fallacious reasoning to such a degree that even attempting to cut a path through your dense, illogical comments and assertions becomes a laborious endeavor. That said, I did want to address this statement specifically because it illustrates why you and the OP have continuously lost ground in this debate.

If you think all new games are easy, you obviously aren't playing very many contemporary titles. I have listed several games that will give even the most seasoned gamer a serious challenge, including Bionic Commando: Rearmed, Demon's Souls, Ikaruga, Ninja Gaiden I and II, etc. There are plenty of games out there that offer a serious challenge, so from the very outset we've clearly established one undeniable fact: Your statement regarding all new games being easy is a fallacy. That fallacy in turn demonstrates two possible reasons why you made this erroneous statement to begin with:

You are ignorant of the games currently available because you are so entrenched in your own viewpoint that you refuse to play much if anything beyond your archaic, "old school" parameters. (Hence why I've called you stance myopic)

OR

You are cognizant that newer games offer plenty of difficulty and choose to employ a ridiculous, hyperbolic statement rather than keep the debate rooted in logic and reality.

Beyond your weak assertions and flimsy arguments, the crux of your theory is simply flawed. Much of the challenge gleaned from older games came not from excellent programming or solid level design but rather antiquated constructs foisted upon players that artificially expanded the length and difficulty quotient of many older games. There is a reason why most people, including veteran gamers, cannot get past the third level of Battle Toads and it has nothing to do with excellent programming or level design. Conversely, the true classics of the eras you veneratehave stood the test of time in most cases precisely because they eschewed many of these archaic conventions and made the game playable and challenging without making the experience cheap. The reason I love Zelda: LttP and consider it my favorite has nothing to do with difficulty; I prefer the game because of a combination of charm, art style and my own bit of nostalgia peppered into the mix, meaning that once again you are wrong in asserting that my love for this particular game proves your point. As a point of fact, my affinity for Zelda III proves mine.

If you personally find flawed, cheap game design to be the apex of this medium that is your prerogative.However, your opinion doesn't strike me as particularly informed and as the brilliant Harlan Ellison said, people are entitled to their informed opinion, and based on theabove statement I'd venture to state that your opinion isn't very informedat all.

In my experience the person who says graphics matter are the younger generation who haven't seen 3/4 generations of console/home computer. And I almost guarantee they'll be here in 10/20 years shouting I'll have more fun on my old 360 Fallout3 than you'll ever have on your xbox 5. Great games you're playing today will be remembered for the rest of your life much like how pong, pacman, jet set willy and mario kart etc stick with the oldies.wurd

Remember everyone, I said that difficulty is a good thing, I didn't say it's the sole reason I like the older games.

It's about gameplay gameplay gameplay

Not reading, lost in a maze, reading, lost in a maze, reading ... (reading bad dialogue no less)

Try to understand my point. I'm a flexible gamer, I just hate how I have to wait 30 minutes to start the game in stuff like Okami, etc...

Some new games can be good, that's for sure, who would dispute that. It's just that if a game would have to be broken down into basic graphical elements like squares and circles, you will see that the gameplay in SMB3 is better than Ninja Gaiden Sigma and Assasin's Creed. If you can't understand that most basic fact, you're not gaming for the right reasons.

You're letting the graphics fool you.

[QUOTE="bad_fur_day"]

This thread annoys me. The amount of classics from this and last gen I could list would fill up this page. There must be something wrong with your brain or something, maybe you should get that looked at. ^^b

Rizla_Plus

Shadow Complex failed to meet the standards of Super Metroid which was made 15 years before.

All fans of fighters will admit the following: Street fighter 3 is better than Street Fighter 4

Even your friend Grammaton admits Twilight Princess failed to meet the standards of Zelda 3 (which was also made 15 years before).

I like Metroid Zero Mission more than Super Metroid.

I think Street Fighter IV is better than Third Strike and I'm a fighting fan.

I think Ocarina of Time is the greatest Zelda ever made and think Twilight was better than that, even though I still see Ocarina as the greater game.

But these are all opinions you see.

In other words, you're not right nor am I. Because it's all opinions.

We should respect that.

But you got one thing right, Sonic sucks. But at least Sega is making strides to right the wrong with their new HD 2D Sonic coming out soon and the Sonic Rush games for the DS.

you will see that the gameplay in SMB3 is better than Ninja Gaiden Sigma and Assasin's Creed.

Rizla_Plus

I think apples are better than brocolli.

They're both plant foods that use photosynthesis so they should be the same, right?

I think you understand what I'm trying to say.

I just hate how I have to wait 30 minutes to start the game in stuff like Okami, etc.. Rizla_Plus

30 mins is an exaggeration, and without that stuff i don't think Okami would have managed to become third on my list of favorite games.

Forgive me, guys, I haven't read this entire thread, but I have this to say:

ExciteBike was one of my very favorite games as a kid, and I can't bear it for more than a few minutes now that I'm an adult.

Trials HD, on the other hand, is the ****.

There you have it.

I played them, relax. And I never said difficulty is the main reason. Precise gameplay that you can only get from 2d games is what I like the most.Rizla_Plus

No you relax. ;)

Its not that 2D gaming is more precise, its that your ability to determine spatial perception in 3D space is pathetic. And guess what? That aspect can be considered a challenge in itself too. If you can't accurately hop from one platform to the next or just flat-out suck at aiming, its not the game that's at fault, its you.

And I actually found Ikaruga cheap, cheaper than any game I played during the retro days, and it has limited continues, that's weak. The new Ninja Gaidens were good.Rizla_Plus

Well what else is cheap about it? Need I remind you that your Mario games have limited continues just as well? Would you consider that weak too? Didn't you just say earlier that if a game is of no challenge to you, that it would no longer be an accomplishment?

The reason that game is good is because of the puzzle elements and the pacing.Rizla_Plus

What makes Zelda 3's puzzle elements and pacing superior to the ones found in modern games?

Previously, I stated that I like the game for its pacing. I never said it's because of its difficulty. You're putting words in my mouth. All that writing you do, without even taking the time to read what I said. You're more eager to talk than to listen.Rizla_Plus

Well you yourself need to pay attention to what you wrote because from what I see, not only are your points all over the place, but that you are being very disingenuous about your stance on this issue. Its pretty ironic how you criticize 3D games for their amount of violence while gushing over games like Mario Galaxy, Wind Waker, and basically most retro games in general. You also state that you like Wind Waker because its not drab and grey while in the same breath claiming that its about the gameplay that matters. And since you made it apparent that you dislike getting lost and reading lines of text, did you direct that same criticism towards the RPGs back in the SNES/NES days too? You want to whine about getting lost? Its called a map. If you're going to criticize a specific aspect inherent with certain modern games, then you'd better make damn sure that you do the same thing with the ones you cherish just as well.

Don't quote Harlan Ellison, such a personality would have zero respect for a 34 year old man with 4751 posts on gamespot with his Batman banners debating young kids.

He also said less is more. You can learn something from him.Rizla_Plus

Didn't you just say you had an 8 year old son? Why aren't you, a responsible and model father figure tending to your son's needs instead of debating with folks over the internet? Is your crusade against modern 3D gaming more important to you than your son's own personal well-being?

You'd do well to practice what you preach if you're going to advise others to calm down or not to be harsh or hurl insults.

Don't quote Harlan Ellison, such a personality would have zero respect for a 34 year old man with 4751 posts on gamespot with his Batman banners debating young kids.

He also said less is more. You can learn something from him.

Rizla_Plus

Permanently. Chill out.

Hi,

For me old games are good but new games are also very interesting to play as, it contains lot of graphics that will simply provide more game plays and and also it allows you to make more money that will simply works the best for you.

Thanks!

[QUOTE="Rizla_Plus"]I just hate how I have to wait 30 minutes to start the game in stuff like Okami, etc.. _Tobli_

30 mins is an exaggeration, and without that stuff i don't think Okami would have managed to become third on my list of favorite games.

I just told him flat-out earlier that the intro DOESN'T even take 15 minutes, and he goes around telling other people that they don't take the time to read? I doubt he's played any of the modern titles he's lambasted against. If he did, he would give us a lengthy explanation of why SMB3 is better than Ninja Gaiden Sigma or why most games can't reach up to the standards of Zelda 3. He needs to explain to us WHY and HOW they're superior, instead of offering such lame reasons as "I like pixel art or I can't stand long intros".

Personally, I thought Wind Waker's intro FELT much longer than Okami's 10-15 minute intro, despite it being shorter. Evil man steals power.....young boy saves land.....blah blah blah. I just wanted the damn game to start already.

The Mario games I mentioned have unlimited continues, read what I wrote. Although SMB1 has unlimited continues aswell, leaving your finger on the button at the end.

And someone brought up ExciteBike as an example.

ExciteBike was a bad game, one of the worst games on the system. Gameplay was zero. and its level design was a one trick pony. The lack of control and level design reminded me of the Atari games which I hated. So yes there is such thing as old technology getting in the way of gaming, but from what we've seen of 3d games, new tech can also get in the way. See Igarashi info below for more. I agree that Trials kicks Excitebike's butt, I like Xbox Live Arcade games.

What makes Zelda 3's puzzle elements and pacing superior to the ones found in modern games? BladesOfAthena

Its pretty ironic how you criticize 3D games for their amount of violence while gushing over games like Mario Galaxy, Wind Waker, and basically most retro games in general. You also state that you like Wind Waker because its not drab and grey while in the same breath claiming that its about the gameplay that matters. And since you made it apparent that you dislike getting lost and reading lines of text, did you direct that same criticism towards the RPGs back in the SNES/NES days too? BladesOfAthena

I don't like RPGs. Don't put words in my mouth. Why does everyone here put words in my mouth? Not everything is balck & white in life, there's a grey also. I never said I like all old games.

The puzzles in OoT and TP are not as good as in WW, I loved the gameplay that involves using the wind direction and then gilde with thw ind using the Deku leaf. That game was special. But WW is not as good as Zelda 3, which has better pacing, more detailed level design, and is not bogged down by the schizo camera.

Didn't you just say you had an 8 year old son? Why aren't you, a responsible and model father figure tending to your son's needs instead of debating with folks over the internet? Is your crusade against modern 3D gaming more important to you than your son's own personal well-being?
You'd do well to practice what you preach if you're going to advise others to calm down or not to be harsh or hurl insults. BladesOfAthena

The Mario games I mentioned have unlimited continues, read what I wrote. Although SMB1 has unlimited continues aswell, leaving your finger on the button at the end.Rizla_Plus

There's no need to. Why should I go back and read what you wrote when you don't even pay attention to all the flaws and inconsistencies in your arguments? So no, you go read what you wrote. Also, I like how you completely ignored my point and instead chose to address something else that doesn't help your overall argument. Point is, you consider limited continues as weak, which is funny because you were just saying that if a game doesn't challenge anyone, it is no longer an accomplishment. You want to talk about challenging yourself then you'd look at limited continues as an incentive towards improving your skills, not the other way around. Pay attention to what you write.

Play the game. An interactive picture says a thousand words.Rizla_Plus

No I'm not going to play the game just to prove a point. Besides, I'm not the one making the claim that Zelda 3's puzzle elements and pacing is unmatched. Your claim is merely hot air unless you can back it up otherwise. You need to explain how and why its better and not let nostalgia get in the way of your judgment.

I don't like RPGs. Don't put words in my mouth. Why does everyone here put words in my mouth? Not everything is balck & white in life, there's a grey also. I never said I like all old games.Rizla_Plus

Did I even say you liked RPGs or all old games? No I did not. And what does this black and white mumbo jumbo have to do with anything? Did I say that everything in life is black and white? No I did not. Don't put words in my mouth.

First, don't talk about something that you don't understand, and to bring up my son against me. That's gone too far.
I work for the videogame industry as an artist, I have a job in front of the computer, and I also work at home on some personal projects that involve a computer. Parenting involves making money to put food on the table, sorry if you can't imagine a job that involves a computer. Not everyone flips burgers for a living.

And some of the people debating with me have kids aswell, what don't you read.

And you didn't see me using their kids against them either. For shame.Rizla_Plus

What's not to understand? And to put down other posters for debating young kids, that's gone too far. Did I even ask you what your job was? I couldn't care less as to what you do. If you work in the videogame industry, then where is your Gamerep tag? Its not my fault that you brought up your own son in this line of discussion. And why are you even going off on a tangent about parenting? Does that have anything to do with the topic that's at hand? No? Either stick to the main topic or GTFO. No one cares about what you do for a living.

Why aren't you a responsible and model father figure tending to your son's needs instead of debating with folks over the internet?

BladesOfAthena

For shame. I mention working infront of a computer so that you can understand that posting here is not an effort that takes me away from my son. Think for a second.

inconsistencies in your arguments? So no, you go read what you wrote. Also, I like how you completely ignored my point and instead chose to address something else that doesn't help your overall argument. Point is, you consider limited continues as weak, which is funny because you were just saying that if a game doesn't challenge anyone, it is no longer an accomplishment. You want to talk about challenging yourself then you'd look at limited continues as an incentive towards improving your skills, not the other way around. Pay attention to what you write. BladesOfAthena

I thought you would be able to figure it out. Limited continues just makes you repeat more. I like difficulty, but not when it's cheap like that. I did mention previously that Ninja Gaiden NES had a cheap last level that I thought was wrong to do (it brings you back to the beginning of the level when you die from the last boss).

Read what I wrote. I don't like cheap when it involves repeating something that you previously proven that you can do. Although the cheap that comes from a medusa head in Castlevania is something that I accept as a fair challenge. Not everything is balck and white. I'm flexible.

You need to explain how and why its better and not let nostalgia get in the way of your judgment.BladesOfAthena

Stop using the nostalgia card. Anyways here's a quick example for now:

(it happens at exactly 1:20 in the video, but check the area before and after to get the gist)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZRSqUposUfg&feature=related

That style of gameplay is all over the game.

The benefits of 2d gaming according to Igarashi is that the elements of positioning and direction are streamlined by 2D visuals, leaving developers free to create challenges based around the elements of timing and distance, and thus offer more immediate and gratifying gameplay. This, Igarashi opines, is the true attraction of 2D gaming.

also check the part at 5:37 and see what the player does in that room, and how the NPCs invert Link's motions. The gameplay element involved in killing them is an example of the benefits of a 2d camera that's further away (not at an angle with a narrow field of view).

[QUOTE="BladesOfAthena"]

Why aren't you a responsible and model father figure tending to your son's needs instead of debating with folks over the internet?

Rizla_Plus

For shame. I mention working infront of a computer so that you can understand that posting here is not an effort that takes me away from my son. Think for a second.

Bro... She was making fun of you for when yousaid Grammaton was a loser for posting on an internet forum man. Either you are pretending to be angry, or you just proved to everybody how you live in a parallel universe where yes is no and a taco has meat on the outside!

I'm only posting in here because it's already towards the top, but we need to be responsible here. There is almost no actual discussion, and I'm suprised this hasn't been locked already. Just stop posting so it can sink to the depths of the internets and never return.

[QUOTE="Rizla_Plus"]

[QUOTE="BladesOfAthena"]

Why aren't you a responsible and model father figure tending to your son's needs instead of debating with folks over the internet?

AtomicTangerine

For shame. I mention working infront of a computer so that you can understand that posting here is not an effort that takes me away from my son. Think for a second.

Bro... She was making fun of you for when yousaid Grammaton was a loser for posting on an internet forum man. Either you are pretending to be angry, or you just proved to everybody how you live in a parallel universe where yes is no and a taco has meat on the outside!

I'm only posting in here because it's already towards the top, but we need to be responsible here. There is almost no actual discussion, and I'm suprised this hasn't been locked already. Just stop posting so it can sink to the depths of the internets and never return.

I probably should have let this one sink already but this guy really is ridiculous. I have tried to stay on target but he's unable to refute my points or debate in an intelligent manner which is why he's taken to slamming me personally.

You started with your disrespect towards Tauu, and that's when I realized I didn't like you. You were hard on him from the beginning. Go back to watching Batman.

And Blades of Athena went too far by using my son against me. That's just weird.

Yes, the 80's and 90's were the pinacle of gaming and there will never be another era quite like it. Here are the best games I have ever played that were the most fun and compelling.

1. Zelda II: The adventure of Link (NES)

2. Zelda: Ocarina of Time (N64)

3. Final Fantasy VII (PS)

4. 007: Goldeneye (N64)

5. Half Life (PC)

I found the late 90's to be the pinacle of gaming and the late 80's.