Member introductions.

[QUOTE="Teenaged"][QUOTE="ChiliDragon"]What on earth happened to your avatar!?!? :shock:ChiliDragon

They can have their... evolution. Bleh!

Hey guys, my name is Aaron and I'm a badass.

Really though, I didn't see my invitation to the Atheism Union for quite some time, let alone knowing such a union existed.

Anyway, as of right now I am a steadfast Roman Catholic. I am very lucky to be one simply because I am an incredibly bad person. Unfortunately, most of the time, I'm a Catholic simply out of rationality, as opposed to being one out of love. It's absolutely contradictory but it's true. Rationality, you say? How can that be? Well, here's a little something: Jesus said that people will more likely accept you and your beliefs if you show them through action, not through preaching. When people ask me about my beliefs concerning the world, I am able to give them sound reason. However, I am also likely to have an affair with their partner if they're cute enough. You think that guy will think twice about converting to Christianity after my little dance with the devil? Not at all. It's people like me who unfortunately give Christians a bad name.

There are a lot of other personal revelations to me, but as said, they are personal. Public revelation lived and died with the first and last apostles of Jesus, so anyone trying to convince you with modern miracles is exercising futility. As Jesus essentially said to the disbelievers in John 5, if you don't believe in his testimony now, how can you believe in his testimony ever?  

I have studied philosophy and theology since the beginning of high school, and if it weren't for my idiotic choice to study, get bored with, and subsequently quit my film major (It's too easy and second nature to me), I would have finished my philosophy/theology degree by the end of this year. I will pursue a degree in philosophy/theology later in life, but for now, doing it as a hobby will have to suffice.

Anyway, that's my beliefs in a nutshell. 

Hey frozenliquid. It's great to have another theist around here (I'm not certain but I think you're the first Catholic we've had) and a fellow student of philosophy on top of that. Welcome to the union.domatron23

Hi FrozenLiquid,

I admit I got a bit lost during the rationalism = catholicism bit, but welcome aboard nonetheless.

Hi FrozenLiquid,

I admit I got a bit lost during the rationalism = catholicism bit, but welcome aboard nonetheless.

RationalAtheist

The difference between Catholics and *most* non-Catholics Christians is that as much as we are about faith in God, we are also want to know him through sound reason. If God is True, and reason is knowledge of the Truth, then we should be able to know God through reason. That is rationality.

The error many people commit is that they believe rationality is prescribed by any one belief tract. No, as much as it is true to be an irrational theist, it is also true to be an irrational atheist.

"I don't believe in God"

"Why?"

"I like this cheeseburger"

That would of course be irrational. Catholicism is distinct from other denominations of Christianity because of its many doctrines, based firstly on revelation (faith), then by reason. Firstly by revelation because if God's revelation is True, then we should be able to understand this revelation through human reason. That's a rational proposition in and of itself :P.

Nevertheless, it doesn't amount to much in the grand scheme of things. As I always say, you can't think your way to heaven! 

[QUOTE="RationalAtheist"]

Hi FrozenLiquid,

I admit I got a bit lost during the rationalism = catholicism bit, but welcome aboard nonetheless.

FrozenLiquid

The difference between Catholics and *most* non-Catholics Christians is that as much as we are about faith in God, we are also want to know him through sound reason. If God is True, and reason is knowledge of the Truth, then we should be able to know God through reason. That is rationality.

The error many people commit is that they believe rationality is prescribed by any one belief tract. No, as much as it is true to be an irrational theist, it is also true to be an irrational atheist.

"I don't believe in God"

"Why?"

"I like this cheeseburger"

That would of course be irrational. Catholicism is distinct from other denominations of Christianity because of its many doctrines, based firstly on revelation (faith), then by reason. Firstly by revelation because if God's revelation is True, then we should be able to understand this revelation through human reason. That's a rational proposition in and of itself :P.

Nevertheless, it doesn't amount to much in the grand scheme of things. As I always say, you can't think your way to heaven!

I think you misconstrue what rationalism is. Rationalism is a method of understanding which relies on deduction. Subsuming such a method to be underneath "revelation" is in itself irrational.

I guess you realise this by your final sentence.

Wow, this union doesn't have much activity since... forever...

Anyway, nice to meet you all... I'm 21 years old, I study engineering and consider myself to be agnostic... I guess that's all...

Regards...

Wow, this union doesn't have much activity since... forever...

 

Anyway, nice to meet you all... I'm 21 years old, I study engineering and consider myself to be agnostic... I guess that's all...

Regards...

12thArcane

Hi 12thArcane...

Pleased to meet you...

This place is not as deserted as you might think...

Why not join the fun by registering your interest for an upcoming formal discussion? The most recent threads here explain the procedure, although I must admit I have no idea when or if these formal discussions will start.

[QUOTE="12thArcane"]

Wow, this union doesn't have much activity since... forever...

 

Anyway, nice to meet you all... I'm 21 years old, I study engineering and consider myself to be agnostic... I guess that's all...

Regards...

RationalAtheist

Hi 12thArcane...

Pleased to meet you...

This place is not as deserted as you might think...

Why not join the fun by registering your interest for an upcoming formal discussion? The most recent threads here explain the procedure, although I must admit I have no idea when or if these formal discussions will start.

Thnx for your prompt welcome... I will check these upcoming formal discussions then...

Hi Cassie.

My name is Dominic, I'm 22 years old and my BA is a year behind me having graduated with majors in English and philosophy. Currently I'm teaching Middle school English in South Korea and I'm in a relationship with a lovely Christian girl. It's very interesting to hear that you nearly died and that it pushed you away from religion rather than closer, as it does with many people.

Welcome to the union.

Hi Cassie,

I'm Mike, 44 and married. Are you thinking of having a humanist wedding cermony to your Mike? (I did to my wife!)

I assume you are from the UK... I hope you saw Richard Dawkins on (live) Sunday TV recently (also on BBCi) in "The Big Questions", arguing if the bible was still relevant. Nicky Campbell hosted the disussion with a bishop, selected other people of faith and audience too. (4 days left on demand...) I found it quite engrossing.

Welcome to the union!

Hi Cassie,

I'm Mike, 44 and married. Are you thinking of having a humanist wedding cermony to your Mike? (I did to my wife!)

I assume you are from the UK... I hope you saw Richard Dawkins on (live) Sunday TV recently (also on BBCi) in "The Big Questions", arguing if the bible was still relevant. Nicky Campbell hosted the disussion with a bishop, selected other people of faith and audience too. (4 days left on demand...) I found it quite engrossing.

Welcome to the union!

RationalAtheist

Actually, I'm from South Carolina in the US (the so called Bible Belt). His family doesn't know that he is atheist yet, but we want to have a humanist wedding. Currently we are trying to figure out an easy way to break the news to them, but I'm beginning to suspect there is no easy way to do this because his family is very religious.

I love watching the BBCi, but I some how managed to miss it. :( He is amazing to hear live. Michael was agnostic before we saw Dawkins lecture live here in SC. While waiting to get "The Greatest Show on Earth" and "The God Delusion" signed, we got to talk to other athiests and humanists in our home town. This was eye opening for him to see that there were so many others like him. Here in the Bible Belt, it's easy to feel like you are alone and threatened. I've even had my life threatened when someone I didn't even know found out I was atheist. In the Columbia SC area alone, there are close to 600 churches. This is why both of us now try to find ways to talk to other atheists...and the only way to do this is usually through the internet. :) He is part of GameSpot, so I will make sure to let him know about this union. 

Hi Cassie.

My name is Dominic, I'm 22 years old and my BA is a year behind me having graduated with majors in English and philosophy. Currently I'm teaching Middle school English in South Korea and I'm in a relationship with a lovely Christian girl. It's very interesting to hear that you nearly died and that it pushed you away from religion rather than closer, as it does with many people.

Welcome to the union.

domatron23

That sounds like a great job! :) 

It's hard to explain how coming close to death pushed me farther away from religion. I think it had a lot to do with the amnesia and other things I went through. I already had doubts about religion, but the realization that the human brain is so easily manipulated and can play very elaborate tricks on a person made me question even more. 

Greetings, TAU. I used to post here as a kid who constantly defended Islam. Now, I'm quite skeptical and critical of the religion for ethical and philosophical reasons.Mishmash94

Greetings! Could I ask what things started to change your view on Islam? 

Here are some things that changed my views: the rife violence and enmity against non-Muslims; the fact that homosexuality is not actually a "choice"; the principle of abrogation; the verse about wife beating (4:34); Muhammad's divorcing his wife Sawdah bint Zam'ah because she was old and fat; and the permissibility of child marriage in Islam (see 65:4).

However, the thing that I find the most reprehensible in Islam is the clear gynophobia and hence the strong misogyny and sexism in the religion. I have much to say about how I think Islam treats women, but the most concise way of expressing my thoughts is that I think women are treated as property akin to wealth. If you don't believe me, go read the ahadith on sex slaves and the Farewell Sermon, in which Muhammad likens women to domestic animals that have no possessions. I know Islam is also known for its violence and intolerance, but the things I've read about women have offended me the most. 

Hello, I'm here because I don't think 2000 year old book full of fairy tales and bigotry should dictate my life.

:) 

Hola, hola.

I'm PilgrimWind. Call me as you wish.

I'm an atheist and proud of it. I was actually Catholic before, and the rest is story...

Hola, hola.

I'm PilgrimWind. Call me as you wish.

I'm an atheist and proud of it. I was actually Catholic before, and the rest is story...

PilgrimWind

Why are you proud to be an atheist? 

Hello, everyone. I am an atheist like many of you here, and like PilgrimWind, I used to be a Catholic. In fact, I really used to read up a lot of things on religion (including Catholicism, the Catechism of the Catholic Church, church history, the ecumenical councils, other religions, etc.), philosophy, and other related topics, which eventually brought me to this irreligious state of mind. I guess the fact that I realized that all this time, my mistakes were my own fault and that no divine being (depending on what you define as "god") really seemed to help me out, I eventually dropped my religion. It may have had something also to do with my depression. Oh, and unlike many atheists, which must be humanists, I consider myself a nihilist.

 Meaning, truth, "god" (whether you look at the word as abstract or an athropomorphic entity), morality, etc. are all arbitrary. And I don't need to believe otherwise to be content with myself. If anything, I feel more liberated than ever before, thanks to this state of mind. Nietzsche, Wittgenstein, Max Stirner, and Machavielli are just some of the influences on my "philosophy" or, rather, anti-philosophy of life. One can also call me an anarchist for being anti-authority (though I am not particularly in favor of any government or no government at all) and an ignostic (for finding the word "god" meaningless). Also, don't confuse the term "ignostic" with "agnostic." They don't have the same meaning if you look them both up.

Hello, everyone. I am an atheist like many of you here, and like PilgrimWind, I used to be a Catholic. In fact, I really used to read up a lot of things on religion (including Catholicism, the Catechism of the Catholic Church, church history, the ecumenical councils, other religions, etc.), philosophy, and other related topics, which eventually brought me to this irreligious state of mind. I guess the fact that I realized that all this time, my mistakes were my own fault and that no divine being (depending on what you define as "god") really seemed to help me out, I eventually dropped my religion. It may have had something also to do with my depression. Oh, and unlike many atheists, which must be humanists, I consider myself a nihilist.

 Meaning, truth, "god" (whether you look at the word as abstract or an athropomorphic entity), morality, etc. are all arbitrary. And I don't need to believe otherwise to be content with myself. If anything, I feel more liberated than ever before, thanks to this state of mind. Nietzsche, Wittgenstein, Max Stirner, and Machavielli are just some of the influences on my "philosophy" or, rather, anti-philosophy of life. One can also call me an anarchist for being anti-authority (though I am not particularly in favor of any government or no government at all) and an ignostic (for finding the word "god" meaningless). Also, don't confuse the term "ignostic" with "agnostic." They don't have the same meaning if you look them both up.

Mawy_Golomb

What you say about ignostic and agnostic is interesting!

Personally, I'm not sure we need a distinction between the two things. 

Howdy! Just disocovered that this board existed, would be nice to connect with some others who share my beliefs (or lack thereof :P).

I was raised Roman Catholic in New England and went to sunday school, was confirmed, baptised, recieved communion, all that jazz....all while rejecting it all.  Not even once in my life and all those days in church or sunday school did I once believe anything I was taught.  I thought it was all laughable.  I was captivated by science, physics, astrophysics, astronomy, and computer tech at a very early age and thought to myself about how rediculous gods and goddeses were as a concept.  I just had to play along with my family's wants and partake in the religious events they brought me to.  Life is short and complex, I'd rather not delve into ancient tales of sky wizards to seek comfort and life guidance that I can ultimately get from my own self. :)

Can I extend a warm welcome to Wis3boi and also BossPerson (who just posted in our OT thread).

I share your upbringing Wis3boi, having had an on-site church at my school!

3d walkthough here: http://www.millhill.org.uk/popups/panorama-chapel.html

Prior to that, I was cajoled into going to "Sunday School", but remember not believing anything being preached and the leaders there being unwilling, or unable to answer my questions. I was also raised on stuff like Aesop's fables and could not really tell the difference in moral terms with religious ideas, except that Aesop seemed to encapsulate morality far more interestingly.

I don't feel that I was given a level of indoctrination anywhere near Evangelical Christianity, or Islam, as the Church of England is rather benign in comparison. I was also raised in quite a Jewish area and remember having a great time in attending my Jewish friends' Bar Mitzvah celebrations (the Jewish equivalent of Christian "Confirmation", except more fun). I could see at an early age that religious views were personal opinion, yet subtly divided people within my own area.

This union is on the rise again. It was a most fascinating place to discuss faith. I hope the changes you see being made to the union in the near future will encourage yet more posting and debate here.

Please do consider posting here yourselves and letting the forum know about your religious experiences and how and why you questioned them. Religious views are also welcomed, as long as preaching is avoided. Don't mind about dredging up old threads if you have something to add to them.

I hope you enjoy your stay here. 

Welcome, Isaac! 

I have a passion for philosophy as well, particularly ethics, epistemology, and sometimes metaphysics.

I can't say that I have a good background in world religions, however; I'm only familiar with my former religion, Islam. May I ask what your former religion was (I presume it's Judaism, but I could be wrong)? 

Anyway, I hope you enjoy your time here! =]

Welcome, Isaac! 

I have a passion for philosophy as well, particularly ethics, epistemology, and sometimes metaphysics.

I can't say that I have a good background in world religions, however; I'm only familiar with my former religion, Islam. May I ask what your former religion was (I presume it's Judaism, but I could be wrong)? 

Anyway, I hope you enjoy your time here! =]

ghoklebutter

I've always played my introduction out in my head but the only perfect one I could think of was pretty much my first thought, and now it's gone. So here goes.

My views have fluctuated a bit. I was almost religious from a young age through my primary school's RE lessons, where Christianity initially sounded nice to me. I quickly abandoned that minor belief when I learned more about science and found it more plausable, realising that morality is not absolute (this started as I was finishing primary school), and leaned towards militant attitudes. I swayed back a bit, maybe a bit too much with my tendancy to defend faith and view it with rose-tinted glasses, even when faced with a legitimite criticism. I've finally reached a neutral state now; I don't believe faith systems are inherently bad and generally don't have an issue with them or their followers, but I'm very welcome to criticisms with the many negative aspects that religion holds. As ghokle said, religion is not impeccable.

I'm primarily atheist-agnostic, though I'm shifting towards more of a gnostic stance as I'm gradually finding the idea of a higher being more and more implausible to me. I can never take the leap in logic and I almost (read: ALMOST) envy religious folk because if there is one thing I can respect about faith, it's the fact that it gives its followers some hope in a life that is (if I wanted to take the most negative view, one I don't always hold) awful and very difficult. There are still many plus sides to critical thinking, though - I'm not saying religious folk don't do it, they're just far less likely to do it. But it's paramount to me.

I've been reading this board for some time and it's piqued my interest a lot. I find it far more friendlier, reasonable and less mind-numbing than religious threads in OT. Where my debating skills are pretty bad, that's not a sign that I will ignore anyone should they respond to my posts or want me to clarify something. It would be rude of me after all.

Welcome Spitfrier! I'm elated to see you here. =D

You should post in the "Is there an atheistic dogma?" thread here. Hearing more of your views would be interesting.

Welcome. I wouldn't call my position "gnostic" insomuch as I find the concept so physically and emotionally non-agreeable, that it is not affirmative non-belief, just utter disgust at the idea.Zeviander

I've always seen it more as a sure dismissal at the idea, not inherently negative (just because that belief is held by many militant atheists).

As for the rest of your post, I'd agree. God is either a psychopath, was bullied as a child or both, and he'd be kinda awesome if it was the former. It does irk me and strike me as incredibly douchy that mere natural thoughts and, as xaos said, reasonable questions raised against an entity for which there is no evidence, is grounds for eternal suffering.

I could always go on about the negatives with religion and the bad things it has done, but I see Chrisitanity now, or forms that focus more on the New Testament, as something to fight a bigger monster than that - human treating other humans as playthings, pleasure machines. So I can understand why some Christians get defensive. Not only does atheism and it's lack of any kind of afterlife mingle them with rapists and murderers who committed their crimes for nothing more than their own sensual pleasure, they think that the cause is worth fighting for. I don't think the existence of a God and the events dipicted in the bible are (necessarily) true, but I always liked that aspect.

Unfortunately, I can't defend Islam in its current state, if at all.

Those latter part of my post was nothing more than musings.

And thanks for the welcome.

EDIT: you too, brokle! I'm incredibly flattered to hear that someone wants ot hear my views.

[QUOTE="ghoklebutter"]

Welcome, Isaac! 

I have a passion for philosophy as well, particularly ethics, epistemology, and sometimes metaphysics.

I can't say that I have a good background in world religions, however; I'm only familiar with my former religion, Islam. May I ask what your former religion was (I presume it's Judaism, but I could be wrong)? 

Anyway, I hope you enjoy your time here! =]

Ethicae-Atheos

Indeed, philosophy is at the core of countless issues today. It's sad to see how so many people denounce it as mere intellectual play, even though we are ultimately rendered powerless without philosophy. 

Yeah, arguing with Muslims is definitely sour for the most part. Even very liberal Muslims feel offended when their religion is given the smallest mote of criticism - it's quite frustrating, really. And I definitely agree about education; secular education is truly essential these days.

@Spitfirer: I too am more than willing to read about people's positions, so long as they wish to present them in a manner that is open to discussion rather than "THIS IS WHAT I BELIEVE, NOTHING YOU SAY CAN CHANGE MY MIND" defensiveness. What amazes me most is that barely anyone on OT actually wants to have that kind of discussion anymore. It's almost as if we've all just fallen into our "grooves" and just maintain the status quo. I'm trying to be more questioning when arguing with religionists these days, trying to get them to explain WHY they believe something, rather than just WHAT they believe. So it becomes more than just a self-aggrandizing poll thread.Zeviander

I was guilty of hostility at one point (when I moved to viewing religion with rose-tinted glasses) and with that, I agree wholeheartedly.

There are many posters who I like, such as cheese_game, who insist on acting douchy (like attacking every religious person) in religious threads, or decent users (like teneka) who are usually docile and friendly in religious debate, but will degrade to hostility and the overused "sky-wizard" during a heavy influx of religious threads.

But I too want to know the why of it. OT's just not the place to try anf find out, especially of your stress levels are already elevated. This is one thing that attracted me to this union.

---

To go on another tangent (I can't find any appropriate place to dump all of my religious musings),what annoysme the most about religion (and specifically Christianity) is the notion that only followers can do good things. What about those who help people, who put others first, who are willing to give without getting anything in return but can't (yes, can't) believe in God because of a lingering and reasonable doubt from the lack of any evidence? In fact, this is one of the very few times I want to quote a cracked.com article for anything other than funnies:

"So... doesn't that kind of kill the premise that these people are avoiding God out of sinful rebellion or fear of having to live a godly life? After all, you've got people who are doing the hard part (self-sacrifice, patience, giving up all sorts of sinful pleasures) but are avoiding the easy part (praying and listening to a preacher talk for one hour a week). If God and the danger of Hell were that obvious, why wouldn't they just go all the way with it?

"No, if there is a God, it appears that some good people honestly don't perceive him. For whatever reason. And there has to be some tolerance in God's rules for the Honest Mistake. Has to be. Otherwise we're all going to get screwed by that thing with the Sabbath being on Saturday instead of Sunday."

I enjoy accommodating the "give without expecting anything in return" attitude and it's inherently offensive to me that it's all for nothing and my punishment is eternal torture, something even a rapist or murderer doesn't deserve.

To go on another tangent (I can't find any appropriate place to dump all of my religious musings),what annoysme the most about religion (and specifically Christianity) is the notion that only followers can do good things. What about those who help people, who put others first, who are willing to give without getting anything in return but can't (yes, can't) believe in God because of a lingering and reasonable doubt from the lack of any evidence? In fact, this is one of the very few times I want to quote a cracked.com article for anything other than funnies:

"So... doesn't that kind of kill the premise that these people are avoiding God out of sinful rebellion or fear of having to live a godly life? After all, you've got people who are doing the hard part (self-sacrifice, patience, giving up all sorts of sinful pleasures) but are avoiding the easy part (praying and listening to a preacher talk for one hour a week). If God and the danger of Hell were that obvious, why wouldn't they just go all the way with it?

"No, if there is a God, it appears that some good people honestly don't perceive him. For whatever reason. And there has to be some tolerance in God's rules for the Honest Mistake. Has to be. Otherwise we're all going to get screwed by that thing with the Sabbath being on Saturday instead of Sunday."

I enjoy accommodating the "give without expecting anything in return" attitude and it's inherently offensive to me that it's all for nothing and my punishment is eternal torture, something even a rapist or murderer doesn't deserve.

Spitfirer

You've identified my main gripe with religions like Christianity: altruistic motives are ruined by religion when all actions are based on attaining salvation and nothing more. 

It all reminds me of when I used to be livid when my Muslim relatives told me that all Christians and Jews are going to hell according to Islam just because of their dissent.