Beyond: Two Souls demo impressions thread

Which is why I am genuinely surprised so many of you actually like this shit.

Don't get me wrong, there were aspects of Heavy Rain I appreciated but Cage strikes me as little more than a wannabe filmmaker trying to pass off marginally interactive cut scenes as a videogame and I find that both mystifying and irksome.

I also think he is a lousy writer.

The twist of Heavy Rain was little more than a cheap narrative slight-of-hand and made no sense within the context of the game. I also found his portrayal of the serial killer to be woefully lacking, as if he never bothered to do a lick of research on the subject before predicating an entire narrative on such a character.

That said, I guess it is encouraging that he ditched the R2-to-walk control scheme so maybe, after a few more games, he might actually make something wholly interactive.

Grammaton-Cleric

Didn't you get the memo? Critiquing a game is invalid, the explanation is always "the game is not for you".

[QUOTE="Grammaton-Cleric"]

Which is why I am genuinely surprised so many of you actually like this shit.

Don't get me wrong, there were aspects of Heavy Rain I appreciated but Cage strikes me as little more than a wannabe filmmaker trying to pass off marginally interactive cut scenes as a videogame and I find that both mystifying and irksome.

I also think he is a lousy writer.

The twist of Heavy Rain was little more than a cheap narrative slight-of-hand and made no sense within the context of the game. I also found his portrayal of the serial killer to be woefully lacking, as if he never bothered to do a lick of research on the subject before predicating an entire narrative on such a character.

That said, I guess it is encouraging that he ditched the R2-to-walk control scheme so maybe, after a few more games, he might actually make something wholly interactive.

UpInFlames

Didn't you get the memo? Critiquing a game is invalid, the explanation is always "the game is not for you".

[QUOTE="Black_Knight_00"]

If you want to skip cutscenes in what is basically an interactive movie you should be playing something else. Quantic Dream games are interactive cutscenes

Grammaton-Cleric

Which is why I am genuinely surprised so many of you actually like this shit.

Don't get me wrong, there were aspects of Heavy Rain I appreciated but Cage strikes me as little more than a wannabe filmmaker trying to pass off marginally interactive cut scenes as a videogame and I find that both mystifying and irksome.

I also think he is a lousy writer.

The twist of Heavy Rain was little more than a cheap narrative slight-of-hand and made no sense within the context of the game. I also found his portrayal of the serial killer to be woefully lacking, as if he never bothered to do a lick of research on the subject before predicating an entire narrative on such a character.

That said, I guess it is encouraging that he ditched the R2-to-walk control scheme so maybe, after a few more games, he might actually make something wholly interactive.

Meaningful choices are part and parcel of interaction, and I expect they will be more of a focal point in the future, not less.

Most gamers think the height of interactivity is being told that they can shoot an enemy anywhere they like with any of the guns in their arsenal. The fact that they are given no options besides shooting the guy doesn't phase them. I'm fine with that (many of the greatest games ever made fall within that school of game design and that will always be the case) but I am fine with games that go a different route.

Heavy Rain continually offered players either the option to pick what to do or to fail at doing something and Beyond follows in its footsteps. I love GTA5 but when it comes to its missions, the options are sometimes so limited as to be nonexistent. For the record, the top half of the spoiler tagged comment below is old, the bottom half is new.

[spoiler]

http://www.gamespot.com/forums/topic/29452649/what-is-your-opinion-on-the-torture-scene-in-gta5-no-spoilers?msg_id=341587359#341587359

I agree. I just played it yesterday and it was just kind of meaningless. Trevor inflicting horrible pain on people? Stop the presses! The fact the player is forced to torture some random dude added to the scene's meaninglessness. At the beginning you're told about the need to keep the guy alive as if it matters, but when he dies, you just automatically revive him so I suspect there was more interactivity at one point but Rockstar toned it down.

Also, interactivity isn't just letting me choose how to torture a guy, its letting me choose whether or not to torture a guy and choosing which guy to torture. Maybe you have to follow a couple guys and figure out who the terrorist(s) is, with the game not automatically failing you if you make the wrong choie (as it does with the sniper bit) but letting you continue and then finding out down the line you messed up after the guy is unable to tell you anything useful or maybe even when when a terror attack happens.

-------------

To name another example, Trevor and Franklin went on a drug deal that went sour and they had to walk out of the neighborhood, shooting many gang members that tried to stop them. At the beginning you are told that the van took to the site had been disabled. I said 'fine'. We killed a couple gangmembers while they were still in their car, so I hopped in the car and expected the guys to jump in and then I'd drive out, but they resolutely ignored me, continuing to walk and shoot until they get outside the neighborhood, at which point it becomes acceptable for the player to hop into a vehicle and escape.

GTA5 is arguably the finest game ever made, but there are places I wish I had more choices.

[/spoiler]

Heavy Rain continually offered players either the option to pick what to do or to fail at doing something and Beyond follows in its footsteps. I love GTA5 but when it comes to its missions, the options are sometimes so limited as to be nonexistent.

CarnageHeart

I find this comparison pretty strange. I only played the Heavy Rain demo (which I liked), but I have played Fahrenheit (which I liked for the most part) and I think that David Cage's games are extremely limited. The options you allude to are mostly illusions. You are always guided down a narrow path with only a scant few truly meaningful choices here and there. Grand Theft Auto, on the other hand, is infinitely truer in its interactivity and letting the player play the game as he sees fit.

[QUOTE="CarnageHeart"]

Heavy Rain continually offered players either the option to pick what to do or to fail at doing something and Beyond follows in its footsteps. I love GTA5 but when it comes to its missions, the options are sometimes so limited as to be nonexistent.

UpInFlames

I find this comparison pretty strange. I only played the Heavy Rain demo (which I liked), but I have played Fahrenheit (which I liked for the most part) and I think that David Cage's games are extremely limited. The options you allude to are mostly illusions. You are always guided down a narrow path with only a scant few truly meaningful choices here and there. Grand Theft Auto, on the other hand, is infinitely truer in its interactivity and letting the player play the game as he sees fit.

The majority of the choices in Heavy Rain (and based on my experience with the demo, Beyond) matter only within the scene but that does not make the choices illusionary.

In my favorite bit of Heavy Rain, you could choose whether and how to interact with your son. You could ignore him. If you ignored him and played basketball or watched tv or whatever he would do his own thing, watching tv, microwaving leftovers and eventually fall asleep on the couch IIRC. Or you could make him go through some or all of his chores (including homework) and make him go to bed, at the end of which he has a conversation with his obviously still tormented father that his brother's death wasn't his father's fault. None of that mattered to the end game, but it was still awesome.

Also, I agree that GTA mostly lets the game as you see fit, but my point is that it is sometimes much less free when it comes to mission design.

The majority of the choices in Heavy Rain (and based on my experience with the demo, Beyond) matter only within the scene but that does not make the choices illusionary.

In my favorite bit of Heavy Rain, you could choose whether and how to interact with your son. You could ignore him. If you ignored him and played basketball or watched tv or whatever he would do his own thing, watching tv, microwaving leftovers and eventually fall asleep on the couch IIRC. Or you could make him go through some or all of his chores (including homework) and make him go to bed, at the end of which he has a conversation with his obviously still tormented father that his brother's death wasn't his father's fault. None of that mattered to the end game, but it was still awesome.

CarnageHeart

See, that scene was fantastic; you've mentioned it before and I agree it is easily the most memorable thing about that game.

And I agree that agency should become the norm rather than the exception but truly, the choices in HR felt superficial and manifested in small alterations to the central narrative, which was clearly the primary thrust of the experience. Some of those choices were slick little bits of minutia but ultimately, the game felt restrictive and linear as a whole.

The other problem is that Cage seems afraid to implement ANY actual gameplay conventions even though QTE's are far more cumbersome than a traditional control scheme.

It is almost as if the man fears making an actual, playable game.

Which is why I am genuinely surprised so many of you actually like this shit.

Don't get me wrong, there were aspects of Heavy Rain I appreciated but Cage strikes me as little more than a wannabe filmmaker trying to pass off marginally interactive cut scenes as a videogame and I find that both mystifying and irksome.

I also think he is a lousy writer.

The twist of Heavy Rain was little more than a cheap narrative slight-of-hand and made no sense within the context of the game. I also found his portrayal of the serial killer to be woefully lacking, as if he never bothered to do a lick of research on the subject before predicating an entire narrative on such a character.

That said, I guess it is encouraging that he ditched the R2-to-walk control scheme so maybe, after a few more games, he might actually make something wholly interactive.

Black_Knight_00

Some may see that as a boring pace killer and that's fair enough, I personally see it as experimental game development, avant garde, if you will. Is it perfect? Hell no, but I like what they do. Indigo Prophecy was a brilliant horror-thriller too, I wish they made more horror along those lines.

I find it difficult to classify Cage as avant-garde given that designers like Yu Suzuki were implementing similar ideas of day-to-day minutia as far back as 1999 with the original Shenmue.

Hell, Rockstar had the player attending classes in Bully and more recently, GTAV allows you to walk the expanse of the golf course in between holes.

I actually love those subtle flourishes but HR never supplements those moments with anything to balance them out.

By contrast, Shenmue was QTE-centric but it also enjoyed a solid brawling engine.

I guess I simply cannot subscribe to the theory that Cage is some manner of auteur, though he clearly wants to be considered as such. Personally I don't think he has the balls or the direction to make an actual game and rather hides behind this fallacious notion that his narratives serve as the impetus and justification for weak mechanics.

Even if he attempted mechanics that were shallow, it would be far better than those laborious QTE's, which render much of his work the interactive equivalent of Dragon's Lair.

That's where I stand anyways.

[QUOTE="CarnageHeart"]

The majority of the choices in Heavy Rain (and based on my experience with the demo, Beyond) matter only within the scene but that does not make the choices illusionary.

In my favorite bit of Heavy Rain, you could choose whether and how to interact with your son. You could ignore him. If you ignored him and played basketball or watched tv or whatever he would do his own thing, watching tv, microwaving leftovers and eventually fall asleep on the couch IIRC. Or you could make him go through some or all of his chores (including homework) and make him go to bed, at the end of which he has a conversation with his obviously still tormented father that his brother's death wasn't his father's fault. None of that mattered to the end game, but it was still awesome.

Grammaton-Cleric

See, that scene was fantastic; you've mentioned it before and I agree it is easily the most memorable thing about that game.

And I agree that agency should become the norm rather than the exception but truly, the choices in HR felt superficial and manifested in small alterations to the central narrative, which was clearly the primary thrust of the experience. Some of those choices were slick little bits of minutia but ultimately, the game felt restrictive and linear as a whole.

The other problem is that Cage seems afraid to implement ANY actual gameplay conventions even though QTE's are far more cumbersome than a traditional control scheme.

It is almost as if the man fears making an actual, playable game.

The fact that most of the choices in Heavy Rain and no doubt Beyond bring about only small changes in the central narrative is perfectly understandable. I see no point in letting the perfect by the enemy of the good (its also worth nothing that HR offered the same degree of freedom to impact the narrative one found in the old Choose Your Adventure books).

So long as the choices are sensible and their impact logical, I am fine with them. For example, in Heavy Rain the police at one point ask the father what the missing kid was wearing and the player has to select an answer (from multiple choices). Whether or not he knows the detail doesn't matter, but the fact you were asked the detail is a clever bit of game design. Another scenario that springs to mind is the detective leaving a woman's apartment as a guy with mayhem on his mind enters. You can say 'Not my problem' and keep walking or you can go back and help her (getting into a fight with the guy, maybe winning, maybe losing).

As for Heavy Rain's playability, I suppose it depends on what you are looking for. It is viewed by many adventure gamers (including those working at Telltale Games) as an evolution of the old near moribund point and click genre.

I find it difficult to classify Cage as avant-garde given that designers like Yu Suzuki were implementing similar ideas of day-to-day minutia as far back as 1999 with the original Shenmue.

Hell, Rockstar had the player attending classes in Bully and more recently, GTAV allows you to walk the expanse of the golf course in between holes.

I actually love those subtle flourishes but HR never supplements those moments with anything to balance them out.

By contrast, Shenmue was QTE-centric but it also enjoyed a solid brawling engine.

I guess I simply cannot subscribe to the theory that Cage is some manner of auteur, though he clearly wants to be considered as such. Personally I don't think he has the balls or the direction to make an actual game and rather hides behind this fallacious notion that his narratives serve as the impetus and justification for weak mechanics.

Even if he attempted mechanics that were shallow, it would be far better than those laborious QTE's, which render much of his work the interactive equivalent of Dragon's Lair.

That's where I stand anyways.

Grammaton-Cleric

It´s actually rather fun to hear you rip Cage a new one and in the same post, use GTA V´s side-activity which is pointless and serve absolute no purpose as a example.

In fact Heavy Rain and Beyond are both games that shouldn't even be mentioned in the same sentence as GTA V, where GTA V is just a open world where you can fullfil your inner need for destruction. HR and Beyond wants to tell a story and are more focused on that then to install some pseudo-freedom.

Also how can you have missed that what both games tries to do, is not to give you a gaming experience in terms of mechanics and gameplay, but to give you a story that you can feel apart of by the interactive elements and how they are done.

So i really dont get why people criticize Cage, especially not when his studio is actually trying to move away from the boring same shit open world game that is GTA or mind numbingly dumb Call of Duty and its clones. Particular not when people also praise Ken Levine who is probably the biggest fraud and scam artist in the gaming world.

It´s actually rather fun to hear you rip Cage a new one and in the same post, use GTA V´s side-activity which is pointless and serve absolute no purpose as a example.

In fact Heavy Rain and Beyond are both games that shouldn't even be mentioned in the same sentence as GTA V, where GTA V is just a open world where you can fullfil your inner need for destruction. HR and Beyond wants to tell a story and are more focused on that then to install some pseudo-freedom.

Also how can you have missed that what both games tries to do, is not to give you a gaming experience in terms of mechanics and gameplay, but to give you a story that you can feel apart of by the interactive elements and how they are done.

So i really dont get why people criticize Cage, especially not when his studio is actually trying to move away from the boring same shit open world game that is GTA or mind numbingly dumb Call of Duty and its clones. Particular not when people also praise Ken Levine who is probably the biggest fraud and scam artist in the gaming world.

Jacanuk

My reason for citing GTAV, along with games like Shenmue and Bully, is to demonstrate that what Heavy Rain offers in terms of minutia and a focus on the mundane is hardly innovative.

GTAIV did it, SA, did it, and other games have done it as well.

And you are absolutely correct that shit like Heavy Rain, which is the product of a developer that hides behind the barest semblance of interactivity to deliver a narrative that would best serve a direct-to-video endeavor starring Tara Reid, has no place anywhere near something as brilliantly expansive and expertly crafted as GTAV.

I also find it drolly amusing that you would presume to suggest I missed the point of HR when I have clearly stated I am cognizant of its purpose and reject it regardless. Story-driven gaming is nothing new and plenty of games manage to deliver a solid narrative AND compelling gameplay.

I would posit HR does neither.

That you view GTAV merely as an open construct for chaos and violence speaks more to your dearth of analytical skills than any deficiency within the game. Save for the core missions, GTAV is a living, breathing and unrestricted world entirely unmatched where you can engage in any manner of non-violent activities, many of which rival games in those respective genres.

Lastly, merely because somebody does something divergent doesn't automatically imbue that venture with quality. I'm a tireless advocate for innovation and divergence but HR is essentially the antithesis of what I think gaming should be, specifically because it is barely a game and rather serves as a mediocre and poorly-acted film drizzled with a perfunctory bit of interactivity.

Personally, I'd rather PLAY a game than WATCH it.

 Hated the walk scheme in Heavy Rain, could deal with the QTE's otherwise. Are the movement controls more conventional for Beyond?

Hated the walk scheme in Heavy Rain, could deal with the QTE's otherwise. Are the movement controls more conventional for Beyond?

AzelKosMos

Yes, movement is controlled with the analog stick.

I don't care what people say, while I wouldn't consider cage a good writer, he is trying to do something that few have done. Indigo Prophecy(fahrenheit) was a fantastic game with a bad ending, Heavy Rain while not as good as Prophecy it was a interesting thing to try. Also many of the great writers out there have written horrible stories that were worse than Cage's. Everybody has to get experience to become good at something, so for all you know Beyond may actually have a pretty great story in it, if Cage has learned anything from his past writing experiences. Also people have differences on opinions on writing also, some may consider Cage's writing great(I don't), and I know people who think Breaking Bad is a poorly written show(I don't agree with them in fact we fight about it all the time.) Some people think that what they like is in FACT(key word here) good, and not just a matter of opinion. Also i've seen a kid write a very good story(imo), while the writing itself needed work the story was imo pretty great in and of itself.

I write stories(short-stories) all the time, and while I think they're not amazing, I can definately tell that I'm better than when I first started writing my stories.

All I'm saying here is you might be suprised with the story in Beyond, or you might not, but for all I know Cage may think he is a great writer, and don't see any room for improvement. If this is true then he probably wont get any better.

Sorry for the wall of text.

I find it difficult to classify Cage as avant-garde given that designers like Yu Suzuki were implementing similar ideas of day-to-day minutia as far back as 1999 with the original Shenmue.

Hell, Rockstar had the player attending classes in Bully and more recently, GTAV allows you to walk the expanse of the golf course in between holes.

I actually love those subtle flourishes but HR never supplements those moments with anything to balance them out.

By contrast, Shenmue was QTE-centric but it also enjoyed a solid brawling engine.

I guess I simply cannot subscribe to the theory that Cage is some manner of auteur, though he clearly wants to be considered as such. Personally I don't think he has the balls or the direction to make an actual game and rather hides behind this fallacious notion that his narratives serve as the impetus and justification for weak mechanics.

Even if he attempted mechanics that were shallow, it would be far better than those laborious QTE's, which render much of his work the interactive equivalent of Dragon's Lair.

That's where I stand anyways.

Grammaton-Cleric

I thought the fact that actions were tougher to pull off for the player if they were tougher to pull of for the character was a nice touch myself (drinking a cup of coffee was easy, using an inhaler during a severe asthma attack was tough).

I'm sure a shallow conventional game would earn Cage less scorn in some circles, but looking at all the midtier developers that have given up the ghost this gen and the fact that even big AAA projects like Max Payne 3 (a top notch but conventional shooter from a highly regarded studio) disappointed I think if Cage is bright he will keep doing what he is doing.

No doubt Cage in a perfect would would probably be happier with the approval of a experienced gamer such as yourself, but the choices he's made allow him to develop games relatively cheaply (since he doesn't need to throw in a bunch of modes besides the campaign to keep up with the Joneses) and very profitably and have offered adventure game designers a path forward (nods towards Telltale games) in a way that the modern efforts of legendary adventure designers such as Ron Gilbert did not.

[QUOTE="Jacanuk"]

It´s actually rather fun to hear you rip Cage a new one and in the same post, use GTA V´s side-activity which is pointless and serve absolute no purpose as a example.

In fact Heavy Rain and Beyond are both games that shouldn't even be mentioned in the same sentence as GTA V, where GTA V is just a open world where you can fullfil your inner need for destruction. HR and Beyond wants to tell a story and are more focused on that then to install some pseudo-freedom.

Also how can you have missed that what both games tries to do, is not to give you a gaming experience in terms of mechanics and gameplay, but to give you a story that you can feel apart of by the interactive elements and how they are done.

So i really dont get why people criticize Cage, especially not when his studio is actually trying to move away from the boring same shit open world game that is GTA or mind numbingly dumb Call of Duty and its clones. Particular not when people also praise Ken Levine who is probably the biggest fraud and scam artist in the gaming world.

Grammaton-Cleric

My reason for citing GTAV, along with games like Shenmue and Bully, is to demonstrate that what Heavy Rain offers in terms of minutia and a focus on the mundane is hardly innovative.

GTAIV did it, SA, did it, and other games have done it as well.

And you are absolutely correct that shit like Heavy Rain, which is the product of a developer that hides behind the barest semblance of interactivity to deliver a narrative that would best serve a direct-to-video endeavor starring Tara Reid, has no place anywhere near something as brilliantly expansive and expertly crafted as GTAV.

I also find it drolly amusing that you would presume to suggest I missed the point of HR when I have clearly stated I am cognizant of its purpose and reject it regardless. Story-driven gaming is nothing new and plenty of games manage to deliver a solid narrative AND compelling gameplay.

I would posit HR does neither.

That you view GTAV merely as an open construct for chaos and violence speaks more to your dearth of analytical skills than any deficiency within the game. Save for the core missions, GTAV is a living, breathing and unrestricted world entirely unmatched where you can engage in any manner of non-violent activities, many of which rival games in those respective genres.

Lastly, merely because somebody does something divergent doesn't automatically imbue that venture with quality. I'm a tireless advocate for innovation and divergence but HR is essentially the antithesis of what I think gaming should be, specifically because it is barely a game and rather serves as a mediocre and poorly-acted film drizzled with a perfunctory bit of interactivity.

Personally, I'd rather PLAY a game than WATCH it.

Again with your insane praise of GTAV, Its actually amusing that you can find that game so fantastic, its almost like hearing Danny talk about Bioshock Infinite. GTA V is nothing but scripted action and an illusion of freedom nothing more, and compared to other GTA games this one doesn't even have a strong story to back up its gameplay, in fact of all the GTA games V has the weakest set of characters and the weakest story, which might be caused by the attempt of making all 3 main characters interesting.

Also you did miss the point with Heavy Rain , you show that fact again and again, particularly when you mention its more suited for "direct-to-dvd" and that you want to play games not watch it, because for a game like Heavy Rain and Beyond there is a lot of interactivity.

Do HR and what i have seen of Beyond hold your hand and go down a very linear path, sure but thats the whole point of the game, its a mature game, a game that is a interactive story with all its focus on the story and not some insane idea that you need to stop and shoot someone in the head or have a scripted action scene where some random npc does something within a very narrow box set by the script.

But you are right that Heavy Rain and Cage can improve and should improve but for what it did accomplish. Heavy Rain is one heck of a game and i am glad that most critics could see this, because i would much rather have 1 Heavy Rain than 10 Call of Duty or GTA V out there.

So can someone get me the demo?dvader654

Anybody know if the code works on EU accounts? f not I'll just make a US account just for this demo.

A new Beyond trailer is up. It short but it gives us the first glimpse of the Gamestop exclusive DLC everyone that preorders there will get. The extra content is a training room (for both Jodie and Aiden) whose visuals are a clear nod to Portal. Supposedly that segment lasts 30 minutes. People who prereserve also get a steelbook, soundtrack and making of video.

http://blog.us.playstation.com/2013/09/27/last-chance-to-pre-order-beyond-two-souls/

[QUOTE="AzelKosMos"]

Hated the walk scheme in Heavy Rain, could deal with the QTE's otherwise. Are the movement controls more conventional for Beyond?

CarnageHeart

Yes, movement is controlled with the analog stick.

Couple interesting tidbits.

First the bad news. The review embargo isn't completely lifted until release date (I don't hang my hat on reviews and I love the demo, but not a reassuring sign).

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=687205

Now the good news, a lengthy interview in French translated by a Neogaf poster. Sadly, it doesn't sound like the intriguing Kara demo will ever become a game.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=687527

AlloCiné: We still feel that you are still in a process of deconstruction of videogame codes. There's no Game Over in your title for example. Is it still videogames we're talking about?David Cage: When you want to build something new, you can sometimes it do on pre-existing things. But some other times, you must bulldoze everything away. Most other game developers try to build upon a historical base, and add narrative and emotion afterwards. I've never considered that this base was a key prerequisite of what a video game should be. I do not think a gun, cars, platforms, people to kill are the mandatory elements of the interactive experience. They represent a form of interactive experience. I do not want guns, lives, game overs, points, because they don't match the experience that I want to create. I understand the other games, I appreciate them, but I want to build my own little "house" on the side. It will be to my taste and not based on concepts invented thirty years ago.

---------------------

AlloCiné: You regularly release short films before your games. This was the case with "The Casting" before "Heavy Rain", "Kara" before "Beyond" and most recently "The Dark Sorcerer"... Have you ever had the idea to develop your short films as games? David Cage: No, we place ourselves in the same light as Pixar, which produced short films in inbetween full-length movies, to try new ideas. I wrote Kara to test a new graphics engine, the one used for Beyond. We also wanted to experience the Performance Capture. I didn't want to work with Ellen Page and Willem Dafoe using a technology that I had no control on. This test also allowed me to imagine what would directing actors be like. I wrote the synopsis of Kara in two hours, but we cast hundreds of actresses for the title role, before finding the androgynous face of Valorie Curry, who delivered an incredible performance.
The film had a huge impact, even beyond the general public and the video game industry. I know that Pixar and Weta Digital -the special effects studio working with Peter Jackson- were impressed. Even today, a year and a half after the release of the short film, I get daily emails of people from the internet, gamers or not, telling me to make a Kara game and some are even willing to co-finance its development via Kickstarter! It's very touching and at the same time we wouldn't want to disappoint people. Same for The Dark Sorcerer, there are no plans for a PS4 game based on it.

Last but not least, a PS4 game is in development, though work won't start in earnest until Beyond is done.

http://www.gamespot.com/news/david-cage-on-quantic-dreams-ps4-game-6415014

Cage said this untitled PS4 project is still in preproduction because Beyond: Two Souls, due out for PlayStation 3 on October 8, "took all our attention and resources." A "small team" is working on the game's technology, concept, and art, Cage said.

[QUOTE="Lulu_Lulu"][QUOTE="Pffrbt"] sure, and when I'm done with that, Il teach you how not to trip over flat surfaces. I can't explain yourself to you, thats your jobPffrbt

Well evidently you somehow know me well enough to determine that it isn't my type of game, so please, explain. 

No doubt Cage in a perfect would would probably be happier with the approval of a experienced gamer such as yourself, but the choices he's made allow him to develop games relatively cheaply (since he doesn't need to throw in a bunch of modes besides the campaign to keep up with the Joneses) and very profitably and have offered adventure game designers a path forward (nods towards Telltale games) in a way that the modern efforts of legendary adventure designers such as Ron Gilbert did not.

CarnageHeart

I'm a huge adventure game fan and I'm not particularly impressed with either Quantic Dream or Telltale. And with Beyond, Quantic Dream isn't even making adventure games anymore. In my opinion, Amanita Design has been making the best modern adventure games in recent years.

[QUOTE="CarnageHeart"]

No doubt Cage in a perfect would would probably be happier with the approval of a experienced gamer such as yourself, but the choices he's made allow him to develop games relatively cheaply (since he doesn't need to throw in a bunch of modes besides the campaign to keep up with the Joneses) and very profitably and have offered adventure game designers a path forward (nods towards Telltale games) in a way that the modern efforts of legendary adventure designers such as Ron Gilbert did not.

UpInFlames

I'm a huge adventure game fan and I'm not particularly impressed with either Quantic Dream or Telltale. And with Beyond, Quantic Dream isn't even making adventure games anymore. In my opinion, Amanita Design has been making the best modern adventure games in recent years.

Machinarium (the only one of Amanita's games I am familiar with) was great, but mostly old school in terms of design. I'm not saying it wasn't a great game, but I don't think it brought much new to the table.

Did they pull off something new in one of their other games or do you feel I've sold Machinarium short?

Machinarium (the only one of Amanita's games I am familiar with) was great, but mostly old school in terms of design. I'm not saying it wasn't a great game, but I don't think it brought much new to the table.

Did they pull off something new in one of their other games or do you feel I've sold Machinarium short?

CarnageHeart

Machinarium is old school in design, but it did have a few new touches such as the well implemented hint system and it was just a fantastically designed adventure game.

But their last game Botanicula felt really fresh to me. It is most likely the most varied and best-paced adventure game I've ever played which is saying a lot because pacing tends to be an inherent issue in adventure games.

I find Amanita's storytelling, characters and worlds wholly unique and incredibly compelling which is a huge part of adventure games.

You can read my Botanicula review in the spoiler:

[spoiler] Botanicula is the latest game from magical Czech wizards at Amanita Design, creators of Machinarium and the lesser known Samorost series. Botanicula takes you on an unforgettable journey to dreamy places which can only exist within the vast reaches of human imagination. In classic Amanita Design fashion, Botanicula tells an unspoken tale of five friends defending their tree home from parasitic invaders. The story is minimalistic and told entirely through the use of imagery and suggestion and it works wonderfully.

Botanicula plays somewhat like a point and click adventure game, but the puzzles and the range of actions are far more eclectic. They are also simpler than the usual pixel hunt followed by an illogical combination of items. You won't have to bang your head against the wall and pray that the solution somehow dawns on you. However, while you won't have to think too much, the design is still brilliant and mindblowingly imaginative so that you are still left with a satisfying sense of accomplishment. Botanicula might just be the most varied and best-paced adventure game of all time.

Speaking of imaginative, the gameworld is simply oozing with charm which will evoke a big smile that will never leave your face. The characters and their voices are absolutely adorable, the art-style is fantastic, the soundtrack is mesmerizing and the sound effects absolutely brilliant. All of these elements manage to come together and create a fantastical and vibrant universe teeming with innocent child-like joy and wonder.

The game is pretty short, you will most likely finish it in 3-4 hours. While the levels are fairly open-ended and you can go back to discover some enchanting creatures that you might have missed the first time around, there's not much reason to replay the game apart from the experience itself. But it is a wholly unique and imaginative experience that you will never forget. [/spoiler]

The European version of Beyond has two scenes 'slightly' edited to avoid a PEGI 18 rating.

http://www.playstationlifestyle.net/2013/09/30/eu-version-of-beyond-two-souls-has-two-scenes-amended-to-avoid-18-rating-apparently-minor/

There are only two amends between the EU and US versions of the game, amounting to about 5-10 seconds of gameplay thats not been removed, just edited slightly to be in line with a PEGI 16 rating.

For Beyond we wanted to make the game available to as many people as possible, hence applying for a PEGI 16 rating. The 5-10 seconds I mention above would have upped our rating to a PEGI 18, so it made perfect sense to make these two VERY minimal changes to get our planned 16 rating.

I can assure you that this does not affect the games story at all, and that if you didnt know these scenes had been amended, you wouldnt even notice.

I have this game preordered at a discount rate but I'm thinking of cancelling it. I'm just not feeling the concept like I was Heavy Rain. At this point the only reason I would keep it is that its a David Cage game so you know it will feel different from the pack and admittedly I could use that right about now. 

Oh and Dafriend is in it.

I love David Cage and will pretty much pick up this game no matter what. Heavy rain was such a touching game- how can anyone hate it? yeah, the controls are a little bonkers, so that's definitely a critique. But it had so many feels. All the feels. I liked Indigo Prophecy, too- but it got to sci-fi-y for me. 

Can't wait for Beyond. Let's go.

Again with your insane praise of GTAV, Its actually amusing that you can find that game so fantastic, its almost like hearing Danny talk about Bioshock Infinite. GTA V is nothing but scripted action and an illusion of freedom nothing more, and compared to other GTA games this one doesn't even have a strong story to back up its gameplay, in fact of all the GTA games V has the weakest set of characters and the weakest story, which might be caused by the attempt of making all 3 main characters interesting.

Also you did miss the point with Heavy Rain , you show that fact again and again, particularly when you mention its more suited for "direct-to-dvd" and that you want to play games not watch it, because for a game like Heavy Rain and Beyond there is a lot of interactivity.

Do HR and what i have seen of Beyond hold your hand and go down a very linear path, sure but thats the whole point of the game, its a mature game, a game that is a interactive story with all its focus on the story and not some insane idea that you need to stop and shoot someone in the head or have a scripted action scene where some random npc does something within a very narrow box set by the script.

But you are right that Heavy Rain and Cage can improve and should improve but for what it did accomplish. Heavy Rain is one heck of a game and i am glad that most critics could see this, because i would much rather have 1 Heavy Rain than 10 Call of Duty or GTA V out there.

Jacanuk

I make no apologies for my effusive praise of GTAV; it is the single best game I have played and I have been indulging in this medium for 35 years.

And your critiques of the game are utter shit; they read like somebody who has barely played the game or did so looking to nitpick it and pull it apart.

The scripted action criticism is particularly asinine, especially given your pathetic circle-jerking of David Cage's games, which are interactive in the same way Dragon's Lair was interactive.

Of course the actual mission structure in GTAV is incredibly varied, something you are either too dull to understand or you simply won't acknowledge this fact because it weakens your already specious position. To be certain some of those missions are very linear while others give the player an abundance of freedom in choosing how to execute them but regardless, ALL OFFER MORE FREEDOM THAN ANTTHING IN HEAVY RAIN.

Regarding the illusion of freedom, there is nothing illusionary about the freedom in GTAV; the game is huge, the mission types vast, and the ancillary tasks staggering in both scope and execution. I've played just about every open-world game out there and GTAV eclipses them all, though I invite you to name a single other title that can match it in terms of content and variety.

As to your continued insulting of my intelligence, make no mistake that your own affinity for Heavy Rain, along with your assertion that it is mature, speaks volumes about your own intellectual vapidity as clearly you are unversed in quality writing or cinema, evidenced by your praise of such a hackneyed and contrived mess. The plot of Heavy Rain, which centers around a serial killer, was clearly written by a moron who couldn't be bothered to actually research the topic beforehand. Worse, the twist as it pertains to one of the playable characters is not only entirely nonsensical but it also renders many of your previous choices with said character utterly pointless once this revelation occurs.

And that is fine if you think swill like this constitutes something better than a milestone like GTAV because conversely, I would rather have a shit-smeared copy of a magazine featuring a GTAV article than be forced to play another David Cage excursion where pressing button prompts constitutes gameplay.

[QUOTE="Jacanuk"]

 

Again with your insane praise of GTAV, Its actually amusing that you can find that game so fantastic, its almost like hearing Danny talk about Bioshock Infinite. GTA V is nothing but scripted action and an illusion of freedom nothing more, and compared to other GTA games this one doesn't even have a strong story to back up its gameplay, in fact of all the GTA games V has the weakest set of characters and the weakest story, which might be caused by the attempt of making all 3 main characters interesting.

Also you did miss the point with Heavy Rain , you show that fact again and again, particularly when you mention its more suited for "direct-to-dvd" and that you want to play games not watch it, because for a game like Heavy Rain and Beyond there is a lot of interactivity.

Do HR and what i have seen of Beyond hold your hand and go down a very linear path, sure but thats the whole point of the game, its a mature game, a game that is a interactive story with all its focus on the story and not some insane idea that you need to stop and shoot someone in the head or have a scripted action scene where some random npc does something within a very narrow box set by the script.

But you are right that Heavy Rain and Cage can improve and should improve but for what it did accomplish. Heavy Rain is one heck of a game and i am glad that most critics could see this, because i would much rather have 1 Heavy Rain than 10 Call of Duty or GTA V out there.

Grammaton-Cleric

I make no apologies for my effusive praise of GTAV; it is the single best game I have played and I have been indulging in this medium for 35 years.

And your critiques of the game are utter shit; they read like somebody who has barely played the game or did so looking to nitpick it and pull it apart.

The scripted action criticism is particularly asinine, especially given your pathetic circle-jerking of David Cage's games, which are interactive in the same way Dragon's Lair was interactive.

Of course the actual mission structure in GTAV is incredibly varied, something you are either too dull to understand or you simply won't acknowledge this fact because it weakens your already specious position. To be certain some of those missions are very linear while others give the player an abundance of freedom in choosing how to execute them but regardless, ALL OFFER MORE FREEDOM THAN ANTTHING IN HEAVY RAIN.

Regarding the illusion of freedom, there is nothing illusionary about the freedom in GTAV; the game is huge, the mission types vast, and the ancillary tasks staggering in both scope and execution. I've played just about every open-world game out there and GTAV eclipses them all, though I invite you to name a single other title that can match it in terms of content and variety.

As to your continued insulting of my intelligence, make no mistake that your own affinity for Heavy Rain, along with your assertion that it is mature, speaks volumes about your own intellectual vapidity as clearly you are unversed in quality writing or cinema, evidenced by your praise of such a hackneyed and contrived mess. The plot of Heavy Rain, which centers around a serial killer, was clearly written by a moron who couldn't be bothered to actually research the topic beforehand. Worse, the twist as it pertains to one of the playable characters is not only entirely nonsensical but it also renders many of your previous choices with said character utterly pointless once this revelation occurs.

And that is fine if you think swill like this constitutes something better than a milestone like GTAV because conversely, I would rather have a shit-smeared copy of a magazine featuring a GTAV article than be forced to play another David Cage excursion where pressing button prompts constitutes gameplay.

You're seriously defending Grand Theft Auto as a pillar of intellect? And Heavy Rain as junk? Who are you? GTA is not an emotionally stimulating game in the slightest. Besides maybe humor, because of all the swear words. GTA is boring. It's a boring game where it takes 10 minutes to drive to each mission where you follow a path and auto-aim at some baddies and escape from police. Also, you really think all the heists and thefts are realistic and "Great storytelling"? David Cage's stuff is unrealistic? Having a HUD and health meter automatically makes GTA just a stock and standard TPS. You're comparing a game about child abduction and loss with a game about criminals and frontal nudity? Get out of here. This thread is about Beyond: Two souls and games that make you think about your actions. Take yourself and your 18.5 million other GTA sheep and have a great time. 

[QUOTE="Jacanuk"]

Again with your insane praise of GTAV, Its actually amusing that you can find that game so fantastic, its almost like hearing Danny talk about Bioshock Infinite. GTA V is nothing but scripted action and an illusion of freedom nothing more, and compared to other GTA games this one doesn't even have a strong story to back up its gameplay, in fact of all the GTA games V has the weakest set of characters and the weakest story, which might be caused by the attempt of making all 3 main characters interesting.

Also you did miss the point with Heavy Rain , you show that fact again and again, particularly when you mention its more suited for "direct-to-dvd" and that you want to play games not watch it, because for a game like Heavy Rain and Beyond there is a lot of interactivity.

Do HR and what i have seen of Beyond hold your hand and go down a very linear path, sure but thats the whole point of the game, its a mature game, a game that is a interactive story with all its focus on the story and not some insane idea that you need to stop and shoot someone in the head or have a scripted action scene where some random npc does something within a very narrow box set by the script.

But you are right that Heavy Rain and Cage can improve and should improve but for what it did accomplish. Heavy Rain is one heck of a game and i am glad that most critics could see this, because i would much rather have 1 Heavy Rain than 10 Call of Duty or GTA V out there.

Grammaton-Cleric

I make no apologies for my effusive praise of GTAV; it is the single best game I have played and I have been indulging in this medium for 35 years.

And your critiques of the game are utter shit; they read like somebody who has barely played the game or did so looking to nitpick it and pull it apart.

The scripted action criticism is particularly asinine, especially given your pathetic circle-jerking of David Cage's games, which are interactive in the same way Dragon's Lair was interactive.

Of course the actual mission structure in GTAV is incredibly varied, something you are either too dull to understand or you simply won't acknowledge this fact because it weakens your already specious position. To be certain some of those missions are very linear while others give the player an abundance of freedom in choosing how to execute them but regardless, ALL OFFER MORE FREEDOM THAN ANTTHING IN HEAVY RAIN.

Regarding the illusion of freedom, there is nothing illusionary about the freedom in GTAV; the game is huge, the mission types vast, and the ancillary tasks staggering in both scope and execution. I've played just about every open-world game out there and GTAV eclipses them all, though I invite you to name a single other title that can match it in terms of content and variety.

As to your continued insulting of my intelligence, make no mistake that your own affinity for Heavy Rain, along with your assertion that it is mature, speaks volumes about your own intellectual vapidity as clearly you are unversed in quality writing or cinema, evidenced by your praise of such a hackneyed and contrived mess. The plot of Heavy Rain, which centers around a serial killer, was clearly written by a moron who couldn't be bothered to actually research the topic beforehand. Worse, the twist as it pertains to one of the playable characters is not only entirely nonsensical but it also renders many of your previous choices with said character utterly pointless once this revelation occurs.

And that is fine if you think swill like this constitutes something better than a milestone like GTAV because conversely, I would rather have a shit-smeared copy of a magazine featuring a GTAV article than be forced to play another David Cage excursion where pressing button prompts constitutes gameplay.

Are you guys comparing GTA and Heavy Rain? What's the point?Black_Knight_00

*Sigh* I think I opened up that can of worms back on page 6 when discussing the nature of acceptable freedom in games (freedom to choose how to kill someone vs freedom to choose whether to kill them or talk to them).

[QUOTE="Black_Knight_00"]Are you guys comparing GTA and Heavy Rain? What's the point?CarnageHeart

*Sigh* I think I opened up that can of worms back on page 6 when discussing the nature of acceptable freedom in games (freedom to choose how to kill someone vs freedom to choose whether to kill them or talk to them).

[QUOTE="Grammaton-Cleric"]

[QUOTE="Jacanuk"]

Again with your insane praise of GTAV, Its actually amusing that you can find that game so fantastic, its almost like hearing Danny talk about Bioshock Infinite. GTA V is nothing but scripted action and an illusion of freedom nothing more, and compared to other GTA games this one doesn't even have a strong story to back up its gameplay, in fact of all the GTA games V has the weakest set of characters and the weakest story, which might be caused by the attempt of making all 3 main characters interesting.

Also you did miss the point with Heavy Rain , you show that fact again and again, particularly when you mention its more suited for "direct-to-dvd" and that you want to play games not watch it, because for a game like Heavy Rain and Beyond there is a lot of interactivity.

Do HR and what i have seen of Beyond hold your hand and go down a very linear path, sure but thats the whole point of the game, its a mature game, a game that is a interactive story with all its focus on the story and not some insane idea that you need to stop and shoot someone in the head or have a scripted action scene where some random npc does something within a very narrow box set by the script.

But you are right that Heavy Rain and Cage can improve and should improve but for what it did accomplish. Heavy Rain is one heck of a game and i am glad that most critics could see this, because i would much rather have 1 Heavy Rain than 10 Call of Duty or GTA V out there.

Shmiity

I make no apologies for my effusive praise of GTAV; it is the single best game I have played and I have been indulging in this medium for 35 years.

And your critiques of the game are utter shit; they read like somebody who has barely played the game or did so looking to nitpick it and pull it apart.

The scripted action criticism is particularly asinine, especially given your pathetic circle-jerking of David Cage's games, which are interactive in the same way Dragon's Lair was interactive.

Of course the actual mission structure in GTAV is incredibly varied, something you are either too dull to understand or you simply won't acknowledge this fact because it weakens your already specious position. To be certain some of those missions are very linear while others give the player an abundance of freedom in choosing how to execute them but regardless, ALL OFFER MORE FREEDOM THAN ANTTHING IN HEAVY RAIN.

Regarding the illusion of freedom, there is nothing illusionary about the freedom in GTAV; the game is huge, the mission types vast, and the ancillary tasks staggering in both scope and execution. I've played just about every open-world game out there and GTAV eclipses them all, though I invite you to name a single other title that can match it in terms of content and variety.

As to your continued insulting of my intelligence, make no mistake that your own affinity for Heavy Rain, along with your assertion that it is mature, speaks volumes about your own intellectual vapidity as clearly you are unversed in quality writing or cinema, evidenced by your praise of such a hackneyed and contrived mess. The plot of Heavy Rain, which centers around a serial killer, was clearly written by a moron who couldn't be bothered to actually research the topic beforehand. Worse, the twist as it pertains to one of the playable characters is not only entirely nonsensical but it also renders many of your previous choices with said character utterly pointless once this revelation occurs.

And that is fine if you think swill like this constitutes something better than a milestone like GTAV because conversely, I would rather have a shit-smeared copy of a magazine featuring a GTAV article than be forced to play another David Cage excursion where pressing button prompts constitutes gameplay.

You're seriously defending Grand Theft Auto as a pillar of intellect? And Heavy Rain as junk? Who are you? GTA is not an emotionally stimulating game in the slightest. Besides maybe humor, because of all the swear words. GTA is boring. It's a boring game where it takes 10 minutes to drive to each mission where you follow a path and auto-aim at some baddies and escape from police. Also, you really think all the heists and thefts are realistic and "Great storytelling"? David Cage's stuff is unrealistic? Having a HUD and health meter automatically makes GTA just a stock and standard TPS. You're comparing a game about child abduction and loss with a game about criminals and frontal nudity? Get out of here. This thread is about Beyond: Two souls and games that make you think about your actions. Take yourself and your 18.5 million other GTA sheep and have a great time.

@Grammaton - GTA5 is the safe sequel to a megapopular franchise which boasts the biggest game budget of all time, so its not shocking that it boasts more content than any other game. It continues the trend of big franchises games taking an ever bigger chunk than ever of the retail pie and setting very high levels of expectation when it comes to content.

Developers who seek to merely compete with those guys tend to suffer because they have to spend vast sums of money to be competitive and they have to sell vast quantities to be profitable. My pet theory is that the midtier developers who are going to survive are those that innovate and/or target niches (even that is no guarantee of success). Whether or not you like them, Quantic Dreams does both.

@Jacanuk and Shmitty - GTA5 has some interesting storytelling and characters. Its a satire so its rarely aims for a spot other than the funny bone, but it often hits what it aims at. Storytelling doesn't have to be serious or have realistic or have sympathetic characters in order to be good (in comedies everyone tends to be an a-hole).

GTA5 is a great game, I just wish it sought to close the yawning chasm between the freedom it affords you to screw around outside of missions and the damn near nonexistent level of freedom one has in many missions. I thought Realtime World's Crackdown was an interesting attempt to address that issue and I think that if designers are smart, rather than bankrupt themselves seeking to match the content of GTA5, they will emulate Crackdown. Granted, Crackdown might have sold well solely because of the Halo 3 beta access it gave, but still, I think its idea was a good one that would prove reasonably popular if done (and marketed) correctly.

I make no apologies for my effusive praise of GTAV; it is the single best game I have played and I have been indulging in this medium for 35 years.

And your critiques of the game are utter shit; they read like somebody who has barely played the game or did so looking to nitpick it and pull it apart.

The scripted action criticism is particularly asinine, especially given your pathetic circle-jerking of David Cage's games, which are interactive in the same way Dragon's Lair was interactive.

Of course the actual mission structure in GTAV is incredibly varied, something you are either too dull to understand or you simply won't acknowledge this fact because it weakens your already specious position. To be certain some of those missions are very linear while others give the player an abundance of freedom in choosing how to execute them but regardless, ALL OFFER MORE FREEDOM THAN ANTTHING IN HEAVY RAIN.

Regarding the illusion of freedom, there is nothing illusionary about the freedom in GTAV; the game is huge, the mission types vast, and the ancillary tasks staggering in both scope and execution. I've played just about every open-world game out there and GTAV eclipses them all, though I invite you to name a single other title that can match it in terms of content and variety.

As to your continued insulting of my intelligence, make no mistake that your own affinity for Heavy Rain, along with your assertion that it is mature, speaks volumes about your own intellectual vapidity as clearly you are unversed in quality writing or cinema, evidenced by your praise of such a hackneyed and contrived mess. The plot of Heavy Rain, which centers around a serial killer, was clearly written by a moron who couldn't be bothered to actually research the topic beforehand. Worse, the twist as it pertains to one of the playable characters is not only entirely nonsensical but it also renders many of your previous choices with said character utterly pointless once this revelation occurs.

And that is fine if you think swill like this constitutes something better than a milestone like GTAV because conversely, I would rather have a shit-smeared copy of a magazine featuring a GTAV article than be forced to play another David Cage excursion where pressing button prompts constitutes gameplay.Grammaton-Cleric

I get that you are excited about GTA V but come on, I have seen your posts and you have seemed like logic rational person, so whats with the fanboy hat?

Also of course my critic is stupid, isnt that always the case when someone talks bad about your pride and joy, I feel like I am debating in systemwars with a 12year old fanboy.  

One thing you miss here with the scripted action is that Heavy Rain and Beyond doesn´t claim to be an open world do everything you like game like GTA. Its even on the box of Heavy rain what it is, so your point is invalid and just plain out there in space. 

Also the missions in GTA isnt really that varied, its mostly the same done over and over and over again, blow this up, kill this dude, rob this or drive here and talk shit for 5min, even the heist missions with its illusion of freedom is rather limited. But that wasn´t really my point

But I dont see a point in debating this any further with you, its clear that you have left all rational thought and just have the fanboy hat on. Because GTA V is a great game, dont get me wrong there, I like the game and have a lot of fun with it.

But that doesnt mean I cant see all the things that are not that great. The dated graphics, the npc scripted action, the driving, the shooting, and the cartoonish feel GTA V have, the small city-area, it annoys the hell out of me that Rockstar was a apart of making LA noire´s LA and have made LA seem so small in GTA V, yes the map is bigger than any GTA Map before, but whats the point when 75% is either water, countryside or mountains.

Also i really dont get animosity against Cage for trying to expand the gaming market, Heavy Rain and Beyond is and was a breath of fresh air in a gaming world where it seems that either you go for the call of duty clone or GTA openworld clone.

You're seriously defending Grand Theft Auto as a pillar of intellect? And Heavy Rain as junk? Who are you? GTA is not an emotionally stimulating game in the slightest. Besides maybe humor, because of all the swear words. GTA is boring. It's a boring game where it takes 10 minutes to drive to each mission where you follow a path and auto-aim at some baddies and escape from police. Also, you really think all the heists and thefts are realistic and "Great storytelling"? David Cage's stuff is unrealistic? Having a HUD and health meter automatically makes GTA just a stock and standard TPS. You're comparing a game about child abduction and loss with a game about criminals and frontal nudity? Get out of here. This thread is about Beyond: Two souls and games that make you think about your actions. Take yourself and your 18.5 million other GTA sheep and have a great time. 

Shmiity

Grammaton didn't even initiate the Grand Theft Auto comparison, Carnage and I did. And so what? You're continuing the comparison yourself.

By the way, Grand Theft Auto does have great storytelling and it features better writing and voice acting than any Quantic Dream game I've played. I would also argue that Grand Theft Auto IV does offer several emotionally charged moments and compelling moral choices.

We're not going anywhere.

[QUOTE="Shmiity"]

You're seriously defending Grand Theft Auto as a pillar of intellect? And Heavy Rain as junk? Who are you? GTA is not an emotionally stimulating game in the slightest. Besides maybe humor, because of all the swear words. GTA is boring. It's a boring game where it takes 10 minutes to drive to each mission where you follow a path and auto-aim at some baddies and escape from police. Also, you really think all the heists and thefts are realistic and "Great storytelling"? David Cage's stuff is unrealistic? Having a HUD and health meter automatically makes GTA just a stock and standard TPS. You're comparing a game about child abduction and loss with a game about criminals and frontal nudity? Get out of here. This thread is about Beyond: Two souls and games that make you think about your actions. Take yourself and your 18.5 million other GTA sheep and have a great time. 

UpInFlames

Grammaton didn't even initiate the Grand Theft Auto comparison, Carnage and I did. And so what? You're continuing the comparison yourself.

By the way, Grand Theft Auto does have great storytelling and it features better writing and voice acting than any Quantic Dream game I've played. I would also argue that Grand Theft Auto IV does offer several emotionally charged moments and compelling moral choices.

We're not going anywhere.

You're seriously defending Grand Theft Auto as a pillar of intellect? And Heavy Rain as junk? Who are you? GTA is not an emotionally stimulating game in the slightest. Besides maybe humor, because of all the swear words. GTA is boring. It's a boring game where it takes 10 minutes to drive to each mission where you follow a path and auto-aim at some baddies and escape from police. Also, you really think all the heists and thefts are realistic and "Great storytelling"? David Cage's stuff is unrealistic? Having a HUD and health meter automatically makes GTA just a stock and standard TPS. You're comparing a game about child abduction and loss with a game about criminals and frontal nudity? Get out of here. This thread is about Beyond: Two souls and games that make you think about your actions. Take yourself and your 18.5 million other GTA sheep and have a great time.

Shmiity

You should probably read my posts before responding to them to avoid looking as foolish as you do now.

I never claimed GTAV was a pillar of intellect. (whatever that actually means) The only reason that particular game was even brought into the discussion is because it offers the same level of minutia and detail as something like HR while also delivering an expansive and interactive open-world construct.

There's a context to this argument that your infantile mind clearly cannot grasp so do us all a favor and edify yourself before unleashing the equivalent of a bowel movement all over the page.

And that sheep comment was adorable given that there is nothing about this medium that you could ever, in any capacity, provide enlightenment or illumination about.

so in short, GTA V is quantity over quality

Lulu_Lulu

Well, Heavy Rain enjoys neither so even assuming that was the crux of my point, which it is not, GTAV still comes out ahead.

And GTAV offers both a staggering amount of content AND enjoys an incredible refinement of said content and mechanics so in this specific instance, the developers have achieved both.

When I refer to a game as being the best I have ever played, you can damn well bet I predicate that assessment on more than blind adoration or merely an abundance of content.