I don't see the issue. His friend was there holding the spot; that makes it okay. I've done that countless times and nobody ever called me on it.

I love my desktop. That's what I use for my PC gaming and surfing the web. My laptop is purely for when I'm out of the house.

Exactly how I see it. Any ratings system is not developed as a deterrant to the children themselves, it's meant as a guide for the parents. It's there to warn us that this may not be appropriate and from that point on the responsibility is in our hands.

As for the graphic novel, I wasn't a huge fan of the art initially and to be honest some of the story was lost on my first read. But I have the edition that includes the original script and notes. Reading that sheds so much light on it that you go back and notice all kinds of subtle things you didn't before.

Back to the matter at hand, there was someone (forgive me I tend to forget names or handles pretty quickly) who said they were sad they couldn't share their childhood superhero with their own son. There are a lot of things I like that are beyond my son's age range at the moment. I just look forward to the day he is old and mature enough to enjoy them with me. I don't want everything to be tailored to be suitable for him now. I prefer that there are different renditions of something. This way the reader (or whatever form of media it takes) can grow with the subject and vice versa. Not just become some nostalgic thing, but something you can appreciate at an older age on a different level.

CDuG

Exactly.

That's the thing about Morrison. He writes rather complex stories that can really screw with your head. It's not so much that they're deep in thought (which they are sometimes), but just complicated. Good examples are Final Crisis and the follow up series, Return of Bruce Wayne. Man that was complicated. PM me if you'd like to continue that conversation, since it is rather off topic.

God knows there are games and comics that I'm into that I would not want my children playing / reading until they're older. I write and intend on publishing, and I wouldn't want my kids to read most of what I write until they're older. Funny thing people forget is that Batman was actually kind of dark in early comics. He carried a gun and killed people; one shows him actually breaking someone's neck when he kicks them. The 50s showed the age of horror comics, which are arguably more twisted than most modern tales (hence the creation of the Comics Code, which is when the campy Adam West style came about, and when mentioning drugs - even in the context that drugs are bad - would result in being pulled from shelves)

Kudos to the person who noted that the first game was based on the graphic novel Arkham Asylum which was absolutely NOT for children. I was about to state this myself when I saw that.

A lot of things are being said and many of them more eloquently than I have the time to put them. I want to contribute something from the parenting aspect, as I have 3 kids myself.

Briefly before I attempt to sound like I know what I'm saying, I just want to sum up the Cracked article for the person who didn't want to read it. It was a brief list of villains in the golden age along with examples from the actual comic strips, who died in their first appearance. One by suicide, many by accident. Really, should be taken seriously, but in the campy nature of that era of writing, within one panel Batman and Robin would make a one-liner about it and never talk about it again. I think that comics should be built up to the more mature ones depending on the child, but I would rather my children ask me questions about controversial things in life than think someone suffoctaing to death is something to laugh at and high-five your friend over. That's all I wanted to say about that and the only reason I linked that article.

Something that seems to be lost on a lot of people when an argument like this comes along, is that kids aren't just "kids". It's not just a label you can put on a group and they can all be expected to behave and react the same way. Kids are people. Small, developing, but functional people. I shelter my children to an extent to what I believe is approrpriate for their age but also by their personalities and how they understand and react to things. We don't have cable in our house but we do have Netflix. What this has done is given us the ability to choose what they are watching and when. My eldest, an 8 year old boy, has the regular traits you may expect of one his age and sex but with unique takes on them. He likes to play computer games and we monitor what he plays and when. Again, this is our job and no one elses. I'm going to give a few examples of what I'm trying to get at so bear with me those of you who may be reading this.

We have a large wooden playset in our backyard. I have caught my son a few times climbing to the roof of it and calling down to his friends to brag. This is normal boy behavior. Now my job as a parent is to tell him to get down and warn him of the dangers inherant. However, I also know, having once been a young boy myself, he's going to do it again when he thinks I'm not able to catch him. Sooner or later he's going to fall. And then, and until then, will he take seriously the danger I am warning him of. We are there to guide but without experience, children will not truly learn. How can they? What does pain mean when you've never actually experienced it? Without the threat of pain, what does fear mean? I don't condone him antics but I udnerstand them. I don't want him to hurt himself but if he doesn't he won't learn.

As an example more of personality and less generalized, I was driving somewhere with him and listening to music when a song came on with swearing. I happened to be making a turn and didn;t have a free hand at the moment so the words slipped by and I had to just hope he wasn't paying attention. Of course, he was and let me know. "This song has bad words in it." "I know buddy," I told him, feeling like a bad person for not having caught it in time. "I'm sorry I was hoping you weren't listening to it. I couldn't change it in time." "It's okay," he says to me. "I don't say swears." He soudned legitimately disappointed, not only in the musician who chose to express themself this way, but in me for listening to it.

One more, because it specifically relates to Batman. I don't remember which animated rendition of Batman it was we were watching, but a few years back there was an episode where Batman jumps on top of a vehicle of criminals escaping. His cape covers their window, they scream in terror and lose control. My son's brow furrowed and he looked deep in thought. "Why were the bad guys screaming?" he asked. "They couldn't see and they were scared." I explained. "So to them," he completed his thought. "Batman is the bad guy." I was amazed. I didn't bring him t this conclusion. I'd like to take some credit for it being one half of the team raising him. But at the end of the day, he is an individual human being who connects the dots in his own way, at his own pace. And that is how I will judge what is right for him or not. Not solely by his age. Because he, and every other child, deserve a little more respect than that.

CDuG

I'm just glad I'm not the only person who knows what Arkham Asylum: A Serious House on a Serious Earth is, let alone read it. I label it as "obscure," since it's not really mainstream and kind of old. But it was good and rather deep. I love Morrison's work all around and this was no exception. Sure the art lost me once or twice, but it fit the tone. My biggest complaint was that I couldn't read the Joker's font half the time. I haven't read any of the other Arkham Asylum series yet, though I heard they're not as good.

I commend you, however, for taking responsibility for your kids, I hate it when people blame video games, comics, or whatever it may be for "questionable material." To me, it's the job of parents to look at what their children are into. Rating plays a strong part, sure, but the parents should be involved, too. And that's good.

[QUOTE="JediXMan7"]

[QUOTE="sorello"]

That is an alarming new facet and something I suggested to in a recent chat with a friend. Being a collector of great, old silver-age comics, I said, there will come a day they will make superheroes swear, its the next rotten step in the game industries evolution. I also thought Batman the most likely character as he is now the "Dark Knight" not the "Caped Crusader".

So a superhero swears, isn't that telling everyone of any age, that swearing is RIGHT and a good thing!??!

I am sickened to hear that...

El_Zo1212o

The point is, comics aren't for kids anymore. Anybody who read the Killing Joke, Arkham Asylum: A Serious House on a Serious Earth, or Joker, can plainly see that.

Not completely. Much of the concepts are based off the comics, not the games. And let's be honest: Batman TAS and much of the Timmverse was written for the comic fans.

Basically, this was the writers doing what they want and not worrying about censoring it for kid, which I applaud them for. I was quite happy to see a game that actually reflected the tone of the comics for the most part (the comics are actually darker).

If they want something purely based off the show, play Batman: Vengeance.

THIS is what pisses me off. I already bought my PSP games. I shouldn't have to buy them again.

If I could just get my PSP games transferred over to Vita, I would get a Vita.

[QUOTE="JediXMan7"]

[QUOTE="El_Zo1212o"]This reminds me of the Great Mid-October Batman Debate of 2011- except rather than focusing on the perceived sexism, you focus more on my chief complaint- the overabundant used of profanity. Hearing 'rhymes-with-snitch' every ten/twenty minutes in a Batman game does seem excessive, and makes me a little disappointed.sorello

The comics have language too, you know.

Shocking as it sounds, Batman isn't kid friendly anymore. Not since the Adam West series. The only kid-friendly Batman right now is the Brave and the Bold comic series, which isn't canon to the main series.

That is an alarming new facet and something I suggested to in a recent chat with a friend. Being a collector of great, old silver-age comics, I said, there will come a day they will make superheroes swear, its the next rotten step in the game industries evolution. I also thought Batman the most likely character as he is now the "Dark Knight" not the "Caped Crusader".

So a superhero swears, isn't that telling everyone of any age, that swearing is RIGHT and a good thing!??!

I am sickened to hear that...

The point is, comics aren't for kids anymore. Anybody who read the Killing Joke, Arkham Asylum: A Serious House on a Serious Earth, or Joker, can plainly see that.

This reminds me of the Great Mid-October Batman Debate of 2011- except rather than focusing on the perceived sexism, you focus more on my chief complaint- the overabundant used of profanity. Hearing 'rhymes-with-snitch' every ten/twenty minutes in a Batman game does seem excessive, and makes me a little disappointed.El_Zo1212o

The comics have language too, you know.

Shocking as it sounds, Batman isn't kid friendly anymore. Not since the Adam West series. The only kid-friendly Batman right now is the Brave and the Bold comic series, which isn't canon to the main series.

Cell phone, followed by my wallet, then my keys.

I like pretty much all fruits and vegetables