@eoten: no, people are asking for accountability. If your gonna have these people talk you should make them "bring the receipts" with sourced data, not simply let them spew nonsense framed as facts.
Steppy_76's forum posts
@tjandmia: it really is flat earthers vs. Globe earthers when it comes to scientific validity level of the two arguments. If the anti mandate movement was doing so on good information it would be one thing, but almost all the reasons they present are completely false.
Regardless, at this point covid is here to stay. We're gonna have some good years and some bad ones. It's gonna take a combo of vaccines, good reliable high efficacy treatment drugs, and actual cooperation to get back to anything approaching normal... without that, this is the new normal.
@Maroxad: yep. In general an infection can give varying levels of an immune response due to a nonstandard "dose" of the pathogen. Reliability is not in favor of virus acquired immunity vs. Vaccine acquired immunity(i hate the term naturally acquired). Not to mention one requires actually getting an infection in the first place. Whenever i hear somebody bring this up, they always fail to acknowledge that the cost of virus acquired immunity will cost 10 times the deaths, 25 times the serious cases and billions in wasted dollars on healthcare... and that's if everybody who is Vax eventually has a breakthrough case.
@eoten: if love to see actual links for claims to support what you claim, we've all seen you say one thing and link to a source that states the opposite.
@eoten said:
Stats still ain't saying what you think and believe they are saying. Omicron spike, no noticeable corresponding increase in death rate.
Care to revisit this again?
@eoten: no you haven't, you think you have based on what you perceive without any first knowledge or experience. Your argument is like a flat earther who says gravity is fake and buoyancy and density cause things to fall. The primary reason to admit a covid patient is because they can't keep their oxygen levels up. Are you confusing ventilators with oxygen?
Capacity of icus in general is supposed to be high. That percentage varies depending on where the hospital is, but let's use your numbers. If 85%(before covid) is "normal" what does that mean when 30% of your icu is now covid patients? All you are doing is disproving arguments that nobody has made.
@eoten said:
@Steppy_76 said:
@eoten: this whole diatribe is based on a claim you have yet to prove. I assure you that nearly every patient in our covid unit has had high flow oxygen at some point. You keep focusing only on case numbers to prove that hospitals aren't jammed right now. A low severity fast spreading variant can be just as bad as a high severity slow spreading one. But prove your claims flat earther.
With half the "Covid patients" not even in the hospital for Covid, you'r "nearly every patient" claim is clearly bullshit.
Here's a statistic that shows the number of ICU beds actually occupied by "Covid patients" regardless of whether they are there FROM Covid, or incidentally have a mild case of it while being in the hospital for other reasons
https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/hospitalization-7-day-trend
CDC director estimates 40% of Covid patients are there WITH Covid, not FOR Covid, so you can remove nearly half of the above statistic. You can also see there are plenty of ICU beds available.
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2022/01/09/cdc_director_walensky_estimates_40_of_hospitalizations_with_covid_are_not_because_of_covid.html
Both of those disprove your "nearly every patient has had high flow oxygen" diatribe. You lied. "Covid patients" that require oxygen is a small subset. People in the hospital FOR Covid is a small number. Hospitals have never been overflowing with Covid patients. You were talking out your ass, you got called out for it, you then claimed you worked in the field and heard it from a friend who heard it from a friend that they were, you didn't.
Spain is doing the sensible thing.
1. Now up to 40% is half? And yes, we've been unable to do most elective surgeries for close to a month now. We are not up to 40% with rather than from. With a nation the size of the us there are going to be varying levels of activity. Our hospitalizations are about 30 to 40% higher than any other time in the pandemic. Volume of omicron infections has led to just as many serious covid patient despite the lower proportion of serious infections. This is why you don't use a generalization to depict situations. A month from now we may be fine and other areas will be hit. You don't know who or when it'll happen, and you don't wanna be unprepared for it. You also have to take into account length of stay as well. It's way more complicated than what you perceive and you'd know that if you actually knew what you were talking about.
2. For icu and critical care beds location is important. Again you show a nationwide stat. Open beds in Florida, or Utah, or even Illinois don't do us any good here. You wanna ship critically ill patients hundreds of miles to receive care? Proximity is key. If you knew what you were talking about you also would understand that your link means shit other than displaying you don't know enough to know what you don't know.
3. If you're hospitalized from covid there is a 99% chance that you need high flow oxygen at the minimum, or you wouldn't be admitted for covid in the first place. Using your stat that would mean 60% of covid patient need high flow oxygen... how is that a small subset?(and again that up to 40% is gonna vary)
4. Again the entire hospital is not available for covid, not all staff is trained to handle covid, our ability to handle covid patients is finite and has been overtaxed many times during the pandemic. another asinine misinterpretation of how things are in healthcare stemming from your lack of knowledge of Healthcare in general and certainly your lack of knowledge about resources and allocation of those resources.
@eoten: this whole diatribe is based on a claim you have yet to prove. I assure you that nearly every patient in our covid unit has had high flow oxygen at some point. You keep focusing only on case numbers to prove that hospitals aren't jammed right now. A low severity fast spreading variant can be just as bad as a high severity slow spreading one. But prove your claims flat earther.
@eoten said:
@Steppy_76 said:
@eoten: there have been plenty I've times I've mentioned my line of work. You keep calling things "debunked" without any proof of such, you don't have the knowledge to know if the people who are doing the debunking actually have any clue what the **** they're talking about, or if they simply know you don't know enough to recognize nonsense while they grift away. I've had this discussion with numerous people who've said the same things you are saying for two years. The pandemic will be over in the summer of 2020... it'll be over by election day 2020....delta isn't as deadly... only old people die from it... are they dying of covid or with covid... it's the flu.... and on and on. All of them debunked by people with medical knowledge. Then you have vaccines and the complete lack of understanding of how they work on both an individual and a population level. All the excuses that have no scientific merit(they're experimental(they aren't), there's no long term studies(the vaccines are absorbed by the body within 2 to 3 weeks, there is no mechanism for them to appear benign and have effects show up months or years later), etc. etc.
Then you have people conflating omicron is milder than delta with omicron is mild. You have people with no understanding that coronaviruses tend to not confer enduring immunity championing that covid becoming endemic means covid will be mild and not bothersome anymore... endemic covid can just as likely mean a similar situation as the past two years but for decades(waves of varying intensity with prior immunity having varying effects on transmission and severity). All the while we have people basing their decisions on research that is arguably below flat earth research.
And I'm not conflating a damn thing. I'm going by the science of the doctors who actually treated Omicron first hand, and those who have had Omicron, including myself. Even to the point UK researchers had to warn people that half of "common colds" in the UK will be Covid, due to Omicron. And you're telling me to ignore the doctors, ignore the scientists who have treated it first hand, and believe what the media and Fauci tells me at face value? Lmfao, no.
You failed to answer my question. Should the statistics for Covid hospitalizations include people who are there WITH Covid, or only the people there FROM Covid?
South africa is not the us. Our population make up, climates, eating habits, and umpteen other things make that comparison shoddy at best. Drawing conclusions from two wildly different scenarios is a crapshoot at best. You aren't necessarily ignoring things, just grossly misunderstanding and misrepresenting them.
What does it matter if they separate them or not if you're going to ignorantly interpret them with zero understanding of their significance or what they truly mean. The people who agree with my side always make their claims, provide evidence, and real world represents those findings. Your side makes claims, provides no evidence, ignores evidence proving you wrong, then moves the goalposts to another equally inane disprovable conspiracy. It's like a rocket scientist and a carpenter discussing propulsion... the two arguments aren't even remotely 50/50 in validity.
@eoten said:
@horgen said:
@Steppy_76 said:
@eoten: i work in one of the largest hospitals in Wisconsin. I've been in nursing for 15 years. I worked the covid front line for a year. I have access to the covid unit in our hospital. I have access to medical records and population data. You have what exactly? No personal experience, an inability to interpret data, no professional experience in medicine, an affinity to post links that directly refute what you say, and an incredible lack of empathy for anyone or anything. I've watched more than one person like yourself die a miserable death from this.
I have not caught covid and never once said i did... shocking that you can't read. When a patient comes in and tests positive for covid where do you think they go? Do you think we just spread them across the hospital? Can you explain the 500k excess deaths in the us in each of the past two years? Do you think those deaths would have simply been missed if we didn't test. Do you understand anything about anything? Nobody can be this intentionally stupid. To be on the wrong side about everything you post about you HAVE to be a troll looking for attention, because otherwise you should be correct at least once in a while simply based on odds alone.
The excess death was pointed out last year and even in summer 2020 I believe. Guess who ignored it?
Again, you people using and misrepresenting statistics. Tell me, did that include vaccine related deaths, suicides, and drug overdoses? Of course it did. Bigger number = more panic. Again, do you think it's at all dishonest for media to cherry pick statistics in order to generate the most panic, and include things in their statistics that shouldn't be included?
Something none of you have managed to answer yet... should the statistics include people who in the hospital WITH Covid along with the people in the hospital FROM Covid so that they can say "40% of hospital patients have Covid?" Which makes you more gullible types assume they are Covid hospitalizations when they are not.
Do you think that's honest reporting? Do you think that's giving people the facts?
Deaths from suicide were down 3% in 2020.
https://www.npr.org/2021/11/03/1052075961/suicide-rates-fall-in-2020-for-second-straight-year
Vaccine related deaths would be shocking if they are in 4 digits in the us. Actual deaths from the vaccine, not people who died at some point after the vaccine(another shocker, you using a tinfoil hat statistic). before you even post it, you're not using VAERS data correctly.
Drug overdoses went up from 70k to 90k. Where the other 450k coming from?
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/amp/health/overdose-deaths-hit-a-historic-high-in-2020-frustrated-experts-say-these-strategies-could-save-lives
Let's see a source for your 40% of covid patients are "incidental". But even if that were true, you've effectively reduced our capacity for covid patients by 40% as well. You think that helps your point?
Then take into account that the higher level of care you go to the higher the proportion you have of unvaccinated patients. 95% of our covid icu patients are unvaxxed, and they are younger and healthier than the Vax ones and covid.
I notice a pattern with you, you start off with a completely false pretense and use that as your "debunking".
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