from a logical viewpoint Obama was the clear winner.Lord__Darkstorn

What the **** does that mean?

[QUOTE="The_Mac_Daddy"]

[QUOTE="MysticGenie"]I particularly liked Obama's response to the Surge question.

"Obama: So John, you like to pretend like the war started in 2007. You talk about the "surge," the war started in 2003. At the time, when the war started, you said it was going to be quick and easy. You said you knew where the weapons of mass destruction were -- and you were wrong. You said we were going to be greeted as liberators -- you were wrong. You said that there was no history of violence between Shi'a and Sunni, and you were wrong. ...if the question is, who is best equipped as the next president to make good decisions about how we use our military, how we make sure we are prepared and ready for the next conflict, then I think we can take a look at our judgment "Netherscourge

The only problem is, it doesn't matter when the war started.. it matters what the canidates are going to do about it. The war happened, and there is nothing nobody can do about it. McCain supported the troop surge, and Obama did not. The troop surge was a huge success and Obama was wrong.

We have no idea if the Surge was a success.

Remember when Bush had "Mission Accomplished" on a banner while he stood on the deck of an aircraft carrier in a flight suit?

Republicans were declaring a success then too... thousands of soldiers dies AFTER "Mission Accomplished"

You never declare anything a success when there's no clear cut indication of victory.

For all we know, the terrorists in Iraq are regrouping and planning a major attack - while McCain and his "surge" people are proclaiming victory and letting their guard down.

The terrorists in Iraq aren't a unified group with the means to plan a major attack. Their "soldiers" in Iraq are just fanatics who have been brainwashed.

The victory that the republicans spoke of wasn't military victory, but political victory; democracy was reinstated in Iraq, and the Iraqis have begun sustaining themselves (also, we regained control of lots of oil ;)). Catching Saddam Hussein was a victory.

And what war has anyone ever fought where there weren't casualties? American soldiers don't want our pity, they want our encouragement and our support.

[QUOTE="theunloved"]

Sadly, I think it'll flop. How can you make a movie when in the game you make the choices to move the story on.

Palantas

Mass Effect has an intriguing story, and there's no reason someone couldn't make a good movie out of it. Obviously, they select one set of choices that the player might have made in the game. There's only so many choices you get to make. The plot of the game still unfolds the same way, no matter what you do. Your choices reflect your own values (as Cmdr. Shepard) as you tackle the problems the game presents.

Often, though, Hollywood completely changes the plot of the movie, to make it more "cinematic". Usually that just means messing it up. I can see the Mass Effect movie turn into a special effects-fest with no depth.

Another reason religious talks are stupid, other than the superhero effect, is that everyone has a different opinion of what God is (even inside Christianity). Some people think God is a being, others think he is a Spirit, and some people think he's inside each of us.

You can't prove someone's faith wrong....people can believe anything they want, no matter how scant the evidence is (i.e. people believe in Evolution, Christianity, or Buddhism etc.). These things are matters of faith, and no matter how much we fight online about this stuff, you can't change people's minds.

I don't pretend to know all of what you guys are talking about, but its obvious you're talking about faith. I am a convicted Christian myself, and I used to be an atheist. I can tell you, they both require faith. Although Christianity poses more questions than answers, I found that atheism didn't offer any answers at all. Where did we come from? Why do I think that's wrong? Where did the laws of gravity, electromagnetism, etc. come from? Deism can sort of answer the mathematical problems, but it has clear flaws.

I know you are already in a discussion, but if you want a fresh Christian perspective on some of these things, feel free to bounce stuff off of me.